I don't know the guy personally and obviously never will so I can't really make a solid opinion on his personality or behavior/attitude ... HOWEVER, I can tell quite clearly from the pictures that have been released to the press that he is in no way this 'lovely family man' his mother was portraying.
I don't know the guy personally and obviously never will so I can't really make a solid opinion on his personality or behavior/attitude ... HOWEVER, I can tell quite clearly from the pictures that have been released to the press that he is in no way this 'lovely family man' his mother was portraying.
I don't know the guy personally and obviously never will so I can't really make a solid opinion on his personality or behavior/attitude ... HOWEVER, I can tell quite clearly from the pictures that have been released to the press that he is in no way this 'lovely family man' his mother was portraying.
Not helped by the community leaders at the protest who said the family had had no contact with the IPCC or any FLO with them,. When in fact the family had been with the IPCC on Saturday and had been with them to identify the body and had a MET FLO and an IPCC FLO appointed.
Duggan was shot on Thursday (I think). The issue for the family was that by Saturday they still hadn't received official confirmation from the police that he'd been killed. Normally the name of the person killed isn't released until the family have been told. In this case it seems the family found out via the media. (At least, this is the story I read in the Guardian).
That's why the family were outside the police station. The police seemingly failed to tell them that Duggan was dead.
Duggan was shot on Thursday (I think). The issue for the family was that by Saturday they still hadn't received official confirmation from the police that he'd been killed. Normally the name of the person killed isn't released until the family have been told. In this case it seems the family found out via the media. (At least, this is the story I read in the Guardian).
That's why the family were outside the police station. The police seemingly failed to tell them that Duggan was dead.
Well, precisely. It's all very well for people on here to say he was a piece of scum who got his comeuppance ~ that's as maybe. Again, we simply don't know WTF happened, and whether he'd got a gun in his hand or not. Then, as you say, there was a delay in the family being informed.
With the delay and lack of detail, one can quite understand why the local community saw it as a police execution.
Duggan was shot on Thursday (I think). The issue for the family was that by Saturday they still hadn't received official confirmation from the police that he'd been killed. Normally the name of the person killed isn't released until the family have been told. In this case it seems the family found out via the media. (At least, this is the story I read in the Guardian).
That's why the family were outside the police station. The police seemingly failed to tell them that Duggan was dead.
Well considering they all had different surnames maybe the Police didn't know they were family :eek:
(sorry that was a very spiteful comment!)
Had this been reported anywhere else? I haven't heard that the family were not informed.
Call me heartless, but I consider any crack dealer with a loaded gun as an immediate threat, and any reaction that doesn't involve lying spread eagled on the floor risks a bullet in the head. The police involved were specifically tackling gang crime and black on black incidents, which is by nature a violent and unpredictable job - even if a nervous policeman had a twitchy trigger finger, I respect the job they do in trying to protect the rest of society, and as long as it wasn't a blatant execution, I'm not going to demand he be put on trial and try to make a hero out of Duggan.
But thats just it dawnrayd - he WAS SPREADEAGLED and on the ground when he was shot!!!!!!!!
I don't know the guy personally and obviously never will so I can't really make a solid opinion on his personality or behavior/attitude ... HOWEVER, I can tell quite clearly from the pictures that have been released to the press that he is in no way this 'lovely family man' his mother was portraying.
But thats just it dawnrayd - he WAS SPREADEAGLED and on the ground when he was shot!!!!!!!!
Oh this just gets better and better. One guy they interviewed briefly on TV said he was still sitting in his car when he was shot.
This is what I mean ~ nobody knows what the circumstances were, and the police appear to want to cover it all up (at least that's how it comes across to the public). Naturally, communities whose relationship with the police is dodgy to begin with, will get pissed off. I would too.
While I do agree that I believe Duggan was rather responsible for his own death depending on whether or not he drew the gun, this still does not make up for the amount of black people that have myseriously died.
In the last few months we had Smiley Culture (a very wealthy reggea star when police did a drugs raid on his house he apparently just stabbed himself), Demtre Fraser (who while on a routine visit from police apparently just threw himself off his 11 story high flat, but not showing any physical signs of impact on his body) and possibly the most saddest one, Kingsley Burrel, who phoned the police to come and assist him when he and his 5 year old daughter were being tormented, but when the police came he never made it out alive!
I can very much understand why the black community would be massively annoyed by this, and I guess the shooting of Duggan just flipped a switch.
THANK YOU!
I just don't understand how the GBP irrespective of race colour or creed can bury their heads in the sand over this situation!!
Over 400 people in the last 10 years! Thats approximately one person a month!! Black, White and Asian. DEAD and no-one, not a single person, has been brought to account!!!
We even know who killed Ian Tomlinson now and STILL he is walking freely!!!!
Well considering they all had different surnames maybe the Police didn't know they were family :eek:
(sorry that was a very spiteful comment!)
Had this been reported anywhere else? I haven't heard that the family were not informed.
I am sure I saw the brother on TV on the Friday?
I haven't really read any of the other online papers regarding this aspect. I've just been digging around the Guardian site because they seemed to be the only ones suggesting that Duggan didn't fire a shot, when all the other links being posted on DS at the time were reporting that Duggan shot first.
Someone wrote a piece for the Guardian saying that he was one of the people that went to the police station and that the family were simply upset that the police didn't give them an official statement that Duggan had been killed.
I think something went wrong when the case was passed to the IPPC. Once that happens I don't think the police can have any contact with the family(?) The IPCC have said something along the lines of it not being their job to deliver news of a death to family members (quite right). So it looks like the family just didn't get the official statement they should have got before the news got out to the media. By that time the case was already with the IPCC.
Maybe someone else can clarify. I don't know how accurate all this is. But it shows another probable side to the story. I guess it'll all come out when the investigation is complete.
THANK YOU!
I just don't understand how the GBP irrespective of race colour or creed can bury their heads in the sand over this situation!!
Over 400 people in the last 10 years! Thats approximately one person a month!! Black, White and Asian. DEAD and no-one, not a single person, has been brought to account!!!
We even know who killed Ian Tomlinson now and STILL he is walking freely!!!!
Come on!!!!!:mad:
Yeah, I'm amazed more people aren't making more of this. Mark Duggan was obviously a dodgy one who would have used the gun, I'm sure, but he didn't. We are being lied to on a massive scale by the police. My parents are in their 70s and they, along with most of London, have no trust in the police.
Well considering they all had different surnames maybe the Police didn't know they were family :eek:
(sorry that was a very spiteful comment!)
Had this been reported anywhere else? I haven't heard that the family were not informed.
I am sure I saw the brother on TV on the Friday?
Yes Rainbowgirl - it was spiteful but above all it was DISGUSTING!!!
Have you never heard of extended families... people get married and change names you know!!
You vile person!!!
Oh this just gets better and better. One guy they interviewed briefly on TV said he was still sitting in his car when he was shot.
This is what I mean ~ nobody knows what the circumstances were, and the police appear to want to cover it all up (at least that's how it comes across to the public). Naturally, communities whose relationship with the police is dodgy to begin with, will get pissed off. I would too.
I think our best bet is to FIND THE CAB DRIVER!!!!!
He (and the police) are the only ones who know the truth...
Yes Rainbowgirl - it was spiteful but above all it was DISGUSTING!!!
Have you never heard of extended families... people get married and change names you know!!
You vile person!!!
Keep your wig on!
The breakdown of the family unit is actually one of the reasons this country is in the state that it is.
I hate to go down this route but lets compare Duggan to my 29 year old brother
My brother was bought up on a rough Estate in North London, was unemployed for several years in his late teens as he had few qualitifcation and no experience, smoked marjuana daily - why was it not him who was shot on Thursday evening hey??
I'll tell you why, because my parents would not put up with him being a 19 year old bum and told him to sort his life out. Which he did... He now lives in his own place with his long term GF and baby!! He is currently full time "provider" as is partner is on Maternity leave.
Having 2 parents, pulling together and standing firm all those years ago made my brother take stock.
All 4 of my siblings and I have the same surname / parents and we're all decent, tax paying, law abiding citizens. Same as my OH and all his siblings (again they all have the same surname / parents)
In fact I can catergorically say that I can think of no-one I know who has gone off the rails who come from a 2 parent family. (I will balance this out by saying that I know plenty of people that come from single parent familes and have extended families etc that are good people)
Well, precisely. It's all very well for people on here to say he was a piece of scum who got his comeuppance ~ that's as maybe. Again, we simply don't know WTF happened, and whether he'd got a gun in his hand or not. Then, as you say, there was a delay in the family being informed.
With the delay and lack of detail, one can quite understand why the local community saw it as a police execution.
That's exactly it. We really don't know what happened. I've just been slightly irked that people have been willing to believe one side of the story whilst dismissing the alternative wholesale.
It might all be a load of cack. But I just wish people would question more rather than just swallow what the media tells them. A few days ago people were claiming categorically that Duggan shot at a police officer. Now it seems that there is no evidence of this. You would think we'd learned from the de Menezes shambles to just wait and see.
Duggan was shot on Thursday (I think). The issue for the family was that by Saturday they still hadn't received official confirmation from the police that he'd been killed. Normally the name of the person killed isn't released until the family have been told. In this case it seems the family found out via the media. (At least, this is the story I read in the Guardian).
That's why the family were outside the police station. The police seemingly failed to tell them that Duggan was dead.
Odd that his partner went to the police lines and was allowed through the cordon on Thursday , she said she received call/message from him and that he had told her that he thought the police were following him.
She was allowed through the cordon by police so how can it be said they did not know he was dead. Offical confirmatiuon and identification is always done later after forensics etc have finished.
The breakdown of the family unit is actually one of the reasons this country is in the state that it is.
I hate to go down this route but lets compare Duggan to my 29 year old brother
My brother was bought up on a rough Estate in North London, was unemployed for several years in his late teens as he had few qualitifcation and no experience, smoked marjuana daily - why was it not him who was shot on Thursday evening hey??
I'll tell you why, because my parents would not put up with him being a 19 year old bum and told him to sort his life out. Which he did...
Having 2 parents, pulling together made my brother take stock.
All 4 of my siblings and I have the same surname / parents and we're all decent, tax paying, law abiding citizens. Same as my OH and all his siblings (again they all have the same surname / parents)
In fact I can catergorically say that I can think of no-one I know who has gone off the rails who come from a 2 parent family. (I will balance this out by saying that I know plenty of people that come from single parent familes and have extended families etc that are good people)
Ok so only people who come from single parent families commit crimes ? Interesting, because I know of lots of people who have come from both sides (two parent families v single paernt families) who commit crimes.
Also I was quite offended by your previous comment about all his family having different names (some of his family must have the same name as him) to him.
Some of my family members have a different surname to me, my mom being one of them.......doesn't make them criminals.
Odd that his partner went to the police lines and was allowed through the cordon on Thursday , she said she received call/message from him and that he had told her that he thought the police were following him.
She was allowed through the cordon by police so how can it be said they did not know he was dead. Offical confirmatiuon and identification is always done later after forensics etc have finished.
Skp, don't have the answers, and I'm not saying that everything I've posted is absolute gospel fact backed up by official confirmation.
However I have not said that the family didn't know he was dead, just that they failed to get official contact from the police advising them that he was dead. Maybe they knew he was dead but that the police then failed to follow up with the circumstances? Who knows. But my point is that there is probably another side to this which is yet to come out. And also that something appears to have broken down regarding communication.
It's usual practice when someone is killed that their personal details are not made public until the next of kin has been informed. Mark Duggan's family saw in headlines that he had been killed as a result of a "terrifying shoot-out". Why such a difference in treatment? I was one of those who went to Tottenham police station on Saturday, with members of his family, to get an official acknowledgement that Mark had been killed. No official confirmation had been given to the family.
Why do we need a review? It's not an incredibly complicated incident. Ask the officer who shot him why he shot him would be a good start.
I'm quite sure the IPCC will have thought of that. :rolleyes: You do realise that you are not top of their priority list right now though, don't you? You have no right to know what happened until all the facts are known, just the same as everyone else. So why do you insist of creating a conspiracy theory, when the IPCC are just following the correct course of action?
Comments
He looks to be just a stereotypical chav and gangster-wannabe. He looks like a right piece of work.
There was another picture of him doing the "gun salute"
http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=mark+duggan&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&tbm=isch&tbnid=oou6o7VxlIo40M:&imgrefurl=http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/07/tottenham-riots-relatives-dead-man&docid=QH-yROQkAswV0M&w=460&h=276&ei=21ZCToeLHcbOswbM4sDPBw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=1343&vpy=267&dur=20&hovh=174&hovw=290&tx=224&ty=111&page=1&tbnh=154&tbnw=207&start=0&ndsp=32&ved=1t:429,r:31,s:0&biw=1680&bih=830
Bang, bang hey!
Not the kind of picture that says he was a peace loving guy!
I refer you to the aftermath of a murder in Bristol last Christmas:rolleyes:
That's why the family were outside the police station. The police seemingly failed to tell them that Duggan was dead.
Well, precisely. It's all very well for people on here to say he was a piece of scum who got his comeuppance ~ that's as maybe. Again, we simply don't know WTF happened, and whether he'd got a gun in his hand or not. Then, as you say, there was a delay in the family being informed.
With the delay and lack of detail, one can quite understand why the local community saw it as a police execution.
Well considering they all had different surnames maybe the Police didn't know they were family :eek:
(sorry that was a very spiteful comment!)
Had this been reported anywhere else? I haven't heard that the family were not informed.
I am sure I saw the brother on TV on the Friday?
So that meant he deserved to die and you automatically know exactly what the circumstances of his death were ?
Oh this just gets better and better. One guy they interviewed briefly on TV said he was still sitting in his car when he was shot.
This is what I mean ~ nobody knows what the circumstances were, and the police appear to want to cover it all up (at least that's how it comes across to the public). Naturally, communities whose relationship with the police is dodgy to begin with, will get pissed off. I would too.
How do you know?
Were you there? :eek:
I just don't understand how the GBP irrespective of race colour or creed can bury their heads in the sand over this situation!!
Over 400 people in the last 10 years! Thats approximately one person a month!! Black, White and Asian. DEAD and no-one, not a single person, has been brought to account!!!
We even know who killed Ian Tomlinson now and STILL he is walking freely!!!!
Come on!!!!!:mad:
As an eyewitness to events I'm sure you have already contacted the police and made a statement.
Don't be silly. When did I ever mention that, or even insinuate it? :sleep::rolleyes:
Someone wrote a piece for the Guardian saying that he was one of the people that went to the police station and that the family were simply upset that the police didn't give them an official statement that Duggan had been killed.
I think something went wrong when the case was passed to the IPPC. Once that happens I don't think the police can have any contact with the family(?) The IPCC have said something along the lines of it not being their job to deliver news of a death to family members (quite right). So it looks like the family just didn't get the official statement they should have got before the news got out to the media. By that time the case was already with the IPCC.
Maybe someone else can clarify. I don't know how accurate all this is. But it shows another probable side to the story. I guess it'll all come out when the investigation is complete.
Yes Rainbowgirl - it was spiteful but above all it was DISGUSTING!!!
Have you never heard of extended families... people get married and change names you know!!
You vile person!!!
He (and the police) are the only ones who know the truth...
The police have already determined their story and I think I would conveniently 'disappear'... just like the cabbie!!!
Keep your wig on!
The breakdown of the family unit is actually one of the reasons this country is in the state that it is.
I hate to go down this route but lets compare Duggan to my 29 year old brother
My brother was bought up on a rough Estate in North London, was unemployed for several years in his late teens as he had few qualitifcation and no experience, smoked marjuana daily - why was it not him who was shot on Thursday evening hey??
I'll tell you why, because my parents would not put up with him being a 19 year old bum and told him to sort his life out. Which he did... He now lives in his own place with his long term GF and baby!! He is currently full time "provider" as is partner is on Maternity leave.
Having 2 parents, pulling together and standing firm all those years ago made my brother take stock.
All 4 of my siblings and I have the same surname / parents and we're all decent, tax paying, law abiding citizens. Same as my OH and all his siblings (again they all have the same surname / parents)
In fact I can catergorically say that I can think of no-one I know who has gone off the rails who come from a 2 parent family. (I will balance this out by saying that I know plenty of people that come from single parent familes and have extended families etc that are good people)
It might all be a load of cack. But I just wish people would question more rather than just swallow what the media tells them. A few days ago people were claiming categorically that Duggan shot at a police officer. Now it seems that there is no evidence of this. You would think we'd learned from the de Menezes shambles to just wait and see.
Odd that his partner went to the police lines and was allowed through the cordon on Thursday , she said she received call/message from him and that he had told her that he thought the police were following him.
She was allowed through the cordon by police so how can it be said they did not know he was dead. Offical confirmatiuon and identification is always done later after forensics etc have finished.
Ok so only people who come from single parent families commit crimes ? Interesting, because I know of lots of people who have come from both sides (two parent families v single paernt families) who commit crimes.
Also I was quite offended by your previous comment about all his family having different names (some of his family must have the same name as him) to him.
Some of my family members have a different surname to me, my mom being one of them.......doesn't make them criminals.
Skp, don't have the answers, and I'm not saying that everything I've posted is absolute gospel fact backed up by official confirmation.
However I have not said that the family didn't know he was dead, just that they failed to get official contact from the police advising them that he was dead. Maybe they knew he was dead but that the police then failed to follow up with the circumstances? Who knows. But my point is that there is probably another side to this which is yet to come out. And also that something appears to have broken down regarding communication.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/aug/08/tottenham-riots-not-unexpected?INTCMP=SRCH
Edit: That's the quote (and no, I've no idea how accurate it is). Still looking for the other articles. I should have book marked.
I'm quite sure the IPCC will have thought of that. :rolleyes: You do realise that you are not top of their priority list right now though, don't you? You have no right to know what happened until all the facts are known, just the same as everyone else. So why do you insist of creating a conspiracy theory, when the IPCC are just following the correct course of action?