To be honest I'm done with reading such bollocks on these threads!! My faith is unshakeable yet it gets so tiresome when atheists continue to insult those with faith! 99% of the time all the comments are negative and it's usually angry atheists who are behind it! It's just fear
Even when I was a believer, I took the view that unshakable, unchallengable faith was the worst kind. If we do not question what we believe, what we know, then so much progress and knowledge would be lost to us.
I think many of us on the athiest side of the discussion take a great deal of care not to be insulting to believers (some do not - true on both sides of the argument). I certainly would never use the some of the terms used by others (deluded, skyfairy etc) just because I happen to think you are wrong.
And, despite what you may think, most of us aren't angry. We are just sharing our beliefs with the same openness that believers do. After all, witnessing is an important part of the Christian faith, is it not? So, turnabout is fair play. Some people are annoyed by the special concessions made to faith within our state and schools, but that is a different question.
And the belief has nothing to do with fear. But as the topic was 'Do you believe in God?', those of us who answered in the negative have just as much right to espouse our position as believers. Both sides can challenge the logic, assumptions and conclusions of the other.
If that rule is worship me or I will wipe you and your brothers and sisters off the face of the planet (as your OT God's rules say then yes I would have some concerns about the standards of parenting being employed.
Have you not read some of these posts??? Try looking at some other "religious" posts all you see is angry atheists
Indeed but you are only seeing that. All you are seeing is angry atheists perhaps because that is all you are looking for. You are seeing offense where none exists. e.g. You just accused another Christian of faith bashing.
Such exaggeration. Calm down Daisy. I have been having a long and quite good tempered debate with imrightok. Please join in by all means you may find it rewarding.
Indeed but you are only seeing that. All you are seeing is angry atheists perhaps because that is all you are looking for. You are seeing offense where none exists. e.g. You just accused another Christian of faith bashing.
After what I've been called on these forums just for being Christian you get defensive!!! In my experience most of those who start the threads are atheists intend on being rude and thick!!!
After what I've been called on these forums just for being Christian you get defensive!!! In my experience most of those who start the threads are atheists intend on being rude and thick!!!
I think if you don't want people to be condescending you have to stop provoking their condescension.
After what I've been called on these forums just for being Christian you get defensive!!! In my experience most of those who start the threads are atheists intend on being rude and thick!!!
Some athiests are rude. So are some believers.
Some athiests are thick. So are some believers.
Most of us (on both sides) are capable of having a sensible discussion, challenging each others beliefs (which is the whole point)
After what I've been called on these forums just for being Christian you get defensive!!! In my experience most of those who start the threads are atheists intend on being rude and thick!!!
How do you think your God would like you to behave in this situation?
After what I've been called on these forums just for being Christian you get defensive!!! In my experience most of those who start the threads are atheists intend on being rude and thick!!!
I myself have taken other atheists to task for what I see as causing unnecessary offense. I understand your anger because I have been called unpleasant things and asked offensive questions by believers but I don't think returning our anger achieves much.
Only the bully attempts to gain respect by threats. Do you seriously propose this sort of stuff as a reason to worship anything?
exactly! but that what christianity does.... YOU are a SINNER, YOU need redemption, accept christ or BURN in HELL forever... huh great reason to believe....not.
The crucifixion was the last act of sacrifice. The Hebrew religion requires religious sacrifice of Lamb to atone for Sin. Christ is the Christian sacrificial lamb.
The suffering and shedding of blood, it's awful and horrific but it's not random and has purpose for Christians and all people.
.... and there we go..
nonsense. it was no sacrifice, jesus is with daddy in heaven. it would be a sacrifice IF jesus was in hell, dead, displaced from daddy... but he isnt, and as he was 'god incarnate' the pain of crucifiction was nothing.
This thread seems to have gone all negative. Shame really.
negetive? id call it realistic. you get some common sense posts highlighting the ridiculous claims christianity insisnts needs to be accepted in order to believe and you dont like it.
After what I've been called on these forums just for being Christian you get defensive!!! In my experience most of those who start the threads are atheists intend on being rude and thick!!!
THICK? athiests THICK?... hey, we arent the ones who are bilndly accepting miraculous birth, turning water into wine, miracles that go against the laws of nature, the BONKERS theory of christianity that makes not 1 jot of sense.
the non believers on this whole thread have pointed out huge flaws, we have asked questions, we are using reason and logic, we arent the ones who believe a totally unsubstantiated dark age account as real.
meanwhile ive not seen 1 post by you where you can submit a reason why you believe. typical.
anyway you just know someone will call it a sacrifice....
exactly! but that what christianity does.... YOU are a SINNER, YOU need redemption, accept christ or BURN in HELL forever... huh great reason to believe....not.
.... and there we go..
nonsense. it was no sacrifice, jesus is with daddy in heaven. it would be a sacrifice IF jesus was in hell, dead, displaced from daddy... but he isnt, and as he was 'god incarnate' the pain of crucifiction was nothing.
good point! why have religion? why does god need it?:D
prove it.
sorry but if he exists as you proclaim then he can be identified as such.
negetive? id call it realistic. you get some common sense posts highlighting the ridiculous claims christianity insisnts needs to be accepted in order to believe and you dont like it.
i see the non believer bashing goes on this morning.
THICK? athiests THICK?... hey, we arent the ones who are bilndly accepting miraculous birth, turning water into wine, miracles that go against the laws of nature, the BONKERS theory of christianity that makes not 1 jot of sense.
the non believers on this whole thread have pointed out huge flaws, we have asked questions, we are using reason and logic, we arent the ones who believe a totally unsubstantiated dark age account as real.
meanwhile ive not seen 1 post by you where you can submit a reason why you believe. typical.
That's what I call negative. Negative and confrontational, You correctly predicted that o called the death of Christ sacrifice, that is precisely what it was. He gave his LIFE and believe it or not he did it for you and for me.
He didn't have to do it, you know. That's one of the amazing things about the cross. It's mind boggling to get around. God shared suffering in us through Jesus in the form of a Son but that person made the choice in Gethsemane to go to the cross,
You and I have different views but I think it's a pretty amazing thing.
After what I've been called on these forums just for being Christian you get defensive!!! In my experience most of those who start the threads are atheists intend on being rude and thick!!!
Is there anything you'd like to discuss Daisy, beyond how horrible you think atheists are?
That's what I call negative. Negative and confrontational, You correctly predicted that o called the death of Christ sacrifice, that is precisely what it was. He gave his LIFE and believe it or not he did it for you and for me.
He didn't have to do it, you know. That's one of the amazing things about the cross. It's mind boggling to get around. God shared suffering in us through Jesus in the form of a Son but that person made the choice in Gethsemane to go to the cross,
You and I have different views but I think it's a pretty amazing thing.
But in the story Jesus didn't actually give up his life. And of course he didn't have to do it.
The truly amazing thing is that Christians accept the crucifixion as either necessary or wonderful. It's horrible! And if god wanted to forgive us for how he made us he could've done it in a million and one lovely ways. But no, concoct a nasty, violent story that many won't believe in anyway because, for one, it's simply reflective of the barbaric cultural practices of the time.
And, to borrow Labi Siffre's rhyme
As god knew
What Judas would do
In the final accounting
Who betrayed who?
The morals in this story are pretty shoddy from start to finish and the idea of a powerful and loving entity orchestrating it all is absolutely appalling.
But in the story Jesus didn't actually give up his life. And of course he didn't have to do it.
The truly amazing thing is that Christians accept the crucifixion as either necessary or wonderful. It's horrible! And if god wanted to forgive us for how he made us he could've done it in a million and one lovely ways. But no, concoct a nasty, violent story that many won't believe in anyway because, for one, it's simply reflective of the barbaric cultural practices of the time.
And, to borrow Labi Siffre's rhyme
As god knew
What Judas would do
In the final accounting
Who betrayed who?
The morals in this story are pretty shoddy from start to finish and the idea of a powerful and loving entity orchestrating it all is absolutely appalling.
Of course the act of Crucifixion of Jesus is horrible, horrific, nasty and every appropriate superlative I can think of. I wouldn't wish it on anyone, including Jesus. But there is a reason why Good Friday is called what it is.
Like you, I don't have the theological knowhow to explain just why it was neccessary but I do think it has a lot to do with what I shared in my last post, about the sacrificial lambs, the shedding of blood. I don't think Jesus was thrilled or happy about the prospect, but he predicted it many times and knew what was coming, what he had to do.
I don't know how people can claim Jesus didn't give up his own life (unless of course you don't believe in the story) He absolutely did. He was put to death on a cross. The Romans made damn sure of it. The notion that on the third day he came back to life, changes nothing! He did die. Yes he came back to life on the third day, which is another amazing thing. I don't believe too many people (more than I realised actually) have managed that feat, certainly after an extended period of death.
But in the story Jesus didn't actually give up his life. And of course he didn't have to do it.
The truly amazing thing is that Christians accept the crucifixion as either necessary or wonderful. It's horrible! And if god wanted to forgive us for how he made us he could've done it in a million and one lovely ways. But no, concoct a nasty, violent story that many won't believe in anyway because, for one, it's simply reflective of the barbaric cultural practices of the time.
And, to borrow Labi Siffre's rhyme
As god knew
What Judas would do
In the final accounting
Who betrayed who?
The morals in this story are pretty shoddy from start to finish and the idea of a powerful and loving entity orchestrating it all is absolutely appalling.
100% agree.
If Judas had free will, what would have happened if he hadn't betrayed Jesus or the authorities refused to execute him?
If that rule is worship me or I will wipe you and your brothers and sisters off the face of the planet (as your OT God's rules say) then yes I would have some concerns about the standards of parenting being employed.
Yes, it's always a bit of a surprise to hear someone, as with the Christadelphian on Nicky Campbell/s programme, to see genocide described as a proportionate response to misbehaviour.
Comments
Even when I was a believer, I took the view that unshakable, unchallengable faith was the worst kind. If we do not question what we believe, what we know, then so much progress and knowledge would be lost to us.
I think many of us on the athiest side of the discussion take a great deal of care not to be insulting to believers (some do not - true on both sides of the argument). I certainly would never use the some of the terms used by others (deluded, skyfairy etc) just because I happen to think you are wrong.
And, despite what you may think, most of us aren't angry. We are just sharing our beliefs with the same openness that believers do. After all, witnessing is an important part of the Christian faith, is it not? So, turnabout is fair play. Some people are annoyed by the special concessions made to faith within our state and schools, but that is a different question.
And the belief has nothing to do with fear. But as the topic was 'Do you believe in God?', those of us who answered in the negative have just as much right to espouse our position as believers. Both sides can challenge the logic, assumptions and conclusions of the other.
Nope!
Such anger and fear!! Such a shame
Okay, let's go with your version. Why do you think all these atheists are so angry?
Indeed but you are only seeing that. All you are seeing is angry atheists perhaps because that is all you are looking for. You are seeing offense where none exists. e.g. You just accused another Christian of faith bashing.
Such exaggeration.
After what I've been called on these forums just for being Christian you get defensive!!! In my experience most of those who start the threads are atheists intend on being rude and thick!!!
I think if you don't want people to be condescending you have to stop provoking their condescension.
Some athiests are rude. So are some believers.
Some athiests are thick. So are some believers.
Most of us (on both sides) are capable of having a sensible discussion, challenging each others beliefs (which is the whole point)
How do you think your God would like you to behave in this situation?
I myself have taken other atheists to task for what I see as causing unnecessary offense. I understand your anger because I have been called unpleasant things and asked offensive questions by believers but I don't think returning our anger achieves much.
anyway you just know someone will call it a sacrifice....
exactly! but that what christianity does.... YOU are a SINNER, YOU need redemption, accept christ or BURN in HELL forever... huh great reason to believe....not.
.... and there we go..
nonsense. it was no sacrifice, jesus is with daddy in heaven. it would be a sacrifice IF jesus was in hell, dead, displaced from daddy... but he isnt, and as he was 'god incarnate' the pain of crucifiction was nothing.
good point! why have religion? why does god need it?:D
prove it.
sorry but if he exists as you proclaim then he can be identified as such.
negetive? id call it realistic. you get some common sense posts highlighting the ridiculous claims christianity insisnts needs to be accepted in order to believe and you dont like it.
i see the non believer bashing goes on this morning.
THICK? athiests THICK?... hey, we arent the ones who are bilndly accepting miraculous birth, turning water into wine, miracles that go against the laws of nature, the BONKERS theory of christianity that makes not 1 jot of sense.
the non believers on this whole thread have pointed out huge flaws, we have asked questions, we are using reason and logic, we arent the ones who believe a totally unsubstantiated dark age account as real.
meanwhile ive not seen 1 post by you where you can submit a reason why you believe. typical.
Wait... that ain't SULLA.
That's what I call negative. Negative and confrontational, You correctly predicted that o called the death of Christ sacrifice, that is precisely what it was. He gave his LIFE
He didn't have to do it, you know. That's one of the amazing things about the cross. It's mind boggling to get around. God shared suffering in us through Jesus in the form of a Son but that person made the choice in Gethsemane to go to the cross,
You and I have different views but I think it's a pretty amazing thing.
Is there anything you'd like to discuss Daisy, beyond how horrible you think atheists are?
But in the story Jesus didn't actually give up his life. And of course he didn't have to do it.
The truly amazing thing is that Christians accept the crucifixion as either necessary or wonderful. It's horrible! And if god wanted to forgive us for how he made us he could've done it in a million and one lovely ways. But no, concoct a nasty, violent story that many won't believe in anyway because, for one, it's simply reflective of the barbaric cultural practices of the time.
And, to borrow Labi Siffre's rhyme
As god knew
What Judas would do
In the final accounting
Who betrayed who?
The morals in this story are pretty shoddy from start to finish and the idea of a powerful and loving entity orchestrating it all is absolutely appalling.
Nope I'm good 😎
Of course the act of Crucifixion of Jesus is horrible, horrific, nasty and every appropriate superlative I can think of. I wouldn't wish it on anyone, including Jesus. But there is a reason why Good Friday is called what it is.
Like you, I don't have the theological knowhow to explain just why it was neccessary but I do think it has a lot to do with what I shared in my last post, about the sacrificial lambs, the shedding of blood. I don't think Jesus was thrilled or happy about the prospect, but he predicted it many times and knew what was coming, what he had to do.
I don't know how people can claim Jesus didn't give up his own life (unless of course you don't believe in the story) He absolutely did. He was put to death on a cross. The Romans made damn sure of it. The notion that on the third day he came back to life, changes nothing! He did die. Yes he came back to life on the third day, which is another amazing thing. I don't believe too many people (more than I realised actually) have managed that feat, certainly after an extended period of death.
That said, I wonder if there was ever a moment in the Garden when Jesus thought, 'hang on, Dad, this wasn't part of the deal!'
You really wouldn't!
I don't know about that specifically, but I can bet he had doubts, for sure!
If Judas had free will, what would have happened if he hadn't betrayed Jesus or the authorities refused to execute him?
Fab .
Someone else would have, I'd imagine!