Im waiting until the first episode because clips are always out of context.
Ben Miles who played Cromwell in the stage adaptation of Wolf Hall and Bring up the Bodies also doesn't look anything like the painting or the description in the books but he was very good in the role so I'm very hopeful that Mark Rylance is able to do the same, I'm not as hung up on the physicality because film and TV adaptation of books often don't fit the description in the books.
No, Ben Miles didn't look like Cromwell either but I think you can get away with it more in a theatre setting than you can in the quasi-realistic genre of TV or film. Admittedly, I've only seen the clips but Rylance is a big stumbling block for me (although I doubt most people know what Cromwell looked like anyway).
I'm not as hung up on the physicality because film and TV adaptation of books often don't fit the description in the books.
Jonwo, this is true, and often it doesn't matter because the appearance of the character is not the most important thing about them. In this case, though, the books make clear, over and over again, that Cromwell's physical toughness and muscularity - manhandling an angry Duke away from the King, for example - were a large part of what made him intimidating to others. There's a moment when the King embraces Cromwell and exclaims about the solidity and hardness of Cromwell's body.
You don't necessarily have to cast a nightclub bouncer type in the role, but I think you do need to believe that Cromwell is a man who could do serious physical damage to other men with his own hands. And wasn't at all posh.
Trouble is, there don't seem to be many actors who fit the bill that I can think of. Bob Hoskins, perhaps, if he were still alive.
I know there's just been a stage version, and the books did well, but I wish the BBC had waited until the third and final(?) book comes out - or perhaps that's when the repeat will be on, just before the next series:D
Jonwo, this is true, and often it doesn't matter because the appearance of the character is not the most important thing about them. In this case, though, the books make clear, over and over again, that Cromwell's physical toughness and muscularity - manhandling an angry Duke away from the King, for example - were a large part of what made him intimidating to others. There's a moment when the King embraces Cromwell and exclaims about the solidity and hardness of Cromwell's body.
You don't necessarily have to cast a nightclub bouncer type in the role, but I think you do need to believe that Cromwell is a man who could do serious physical damage to other men with his own hands. And wasn't at all posh.
Trouble is, there don't seem to be many actors who fit the bill that I can think of. Bob Hoskins, perhaps, if he were still alive.
Yes, exactly! Cromwell wasn't someone you wanted to mess with. He was physically intimidating and this is how Mantel depicts him. He was a bruiser and more nightclub bouncer than effete lawyer (which is how I suspect he'll appear with Rylance). He was a square peg in a round hole at the Tudor court and that is what makes his story, and eventual downfall, so remarkable.
I don't see how they can get across the antagonism between 'the jumped up' Cromwell and the rest of the courtiers by casting Rylance.
I'm thinking that there were more 'large' actors back in the 60s? Now that there's such emphasis on being lean, it's getting harder to find someone of substantial build to play parts.
In all honesty we have no idea what Henry VIII actually looked like.
The portraits from that era are very similar and make everyone (particularly the women) look very "samey" which cannot be the case. Small eyes, very pale complexion & tight lips.
They can't have ALL looked like that. Unless human appearance evolved around the 18th century
Certainly in later life, yes (although only the first of those is actually by Holbein, and it's the only surviving painting of Henry VIII by Holbein. The middle one is a copy of the Whitehall mural that Holbein painted but which was unfortunately destroyed by fire at the end of the 17th century. Holbein's cartoon for the mural does survive though and is in the National Portrait Gallery: http://www.npg.org.uk/learning/digital/portraiture/perspective-seeing-where-you-stand/drawing.php)
In all honesty we have no idea what Henry VIII actually looked like.
The portraits from that era are very similar and make everyone (particularly the women) look very "samey" which cannot be the case. Small eyes, very pale complexion & tight lips.
They can't have ALL looked like that. Unless human appearance evolved around the 18th century
As the other forum member said though, we have Holbein's images of the Tudor courtiers and fortunately he happened to be one of the greatest portraitists of all time.
This is best seen in the many drawings he made rather than in his finished portraits.
Unfortunately Holbein didn't label many of his drawings and the identifications of the sitters were made much later by Sir John Cheke, the tutor of Edward VI. This has led to all sorts of problems e.g. the much-discussed drawing that allegedly shows Anne Boleyn (as identified by Cheke) but which many people think is a completely different person altogether:
I'm looking forward to this - six hours of historical drama (the first episode seems to be an hour and five minutes). I think the cast is great - I'm not too bothered about precise physical resemblance to the actual people as long as it's not silly.
In answer to a query on a separate thread; from the information in my TV guide, it appears this series covers both the books Wolf Hall and Bring Up the Bodies.
lol Lighting. The interior scenes at night are extremely dark. Pretty hard to see them.
Yeah it is pretty dark, I suppose that's more natural. I'm just getting distracted by pointing out all the actors in it. I didn't realise so many known actors were in it. I'm a bit of an Anton Lesser fan so I'm happy to see him.
Yeah it is pretty dark, I suppose that's more natural. I'm just getting distracted by pointing out all the actors in it. I didn't realise so many known actors were in it. I'm a bit of an Anton Lesser fan so I'm happy to see him.
That's what I read they were going for, they were trying to make the whole production as authentic as possible. Candlelight only in the night-time scenes. It's working imo, it's dark but you can still what's going on, I can anyway.
Comments
No, Ben Miles didn't look like Cromwell either but I think you can get away with it more in a theatre setting than you can in the quasi-realistic genre of TV or film. Admittedly, I've only seen the clips but Rylance is a big stumbling block for me (although I doubt most people know what Cromwell looked like anyway).
Jonwo, this is true, and often it doesn't matter because the appearance of the character is not the most important thing about them. In this case, though, the books make clear, over and over again, that Cromwell's physical toughness and muscularity - manhandling an angry Duke away from the King, for example - were a large part of what made him intimidating to others. There's a moment when the King embraces Cromwell and exclaims about the solidity and hardness of Cromwell's body.
You don't necessarily have to cast a nightclub bouncer type in the role, but I think you do need to believe that Cromwell is a man who could do serious physical damage to other men with his own hands. And wasn't at all posh.
Trouble is, there don't seem to be many actors who fit the bill that I can think of. Bob Hoskins, perhaps, if he were still alive.
Johnathon Pryce as Wolsey = even bigger disaster
Therefore huge opportunity for the Beeb to shine and messed up before they even start.
Epic Fail.
Yes, exactly! Cromwell wasn't someone you wanted to mess with. He was physically intimidating and this is how Mantel depicts him. He was a bruiser and more nightclub bouncer than effete lawyer (which is how I suspect he'll appear with Rylance). He was a square peg in a round hole at the Tudor court and that is what makes his story, and eventual downfall, so remarkable.
I don't see how they can get across the antagonism between 'the jumped up' Cromwell and the rest of the courtiers by casting Rylance.
Yes, Pryce as Wolsey looked absurd, IMO. Wolsey was a large man, very similar to Cromwell in both his background and physique.
It could hardly be worse!
An unusual, but actually very good, choice for Cromwell ...
http://linnetmoss.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/cromwell.jpg
And a perfect choice for Wolsey ...
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-b5QSE5oiXpU/TlpgSJtIlGI/AAAAAAAAAQs/o7TWoClKarA/s1600/man11.jpg
You're right - spot on.
I'm thinking that there were more 'large' actors back in the 60s? Now that there's such emphasis on being lean, it's getting harder to find someone of substantial build to play parts.
Yes, a brilliant choice, especially that of Cromwell. If 'Wolf Hall' is half as good as 'A Man for All Seasons' it'll be doing well.
The portraits from that era are very similar and make everyone (particularly the women) look very "samey" which cannot be the case. Small eyes, very pale complexion & tight lips.
They can't have ALL looked like that. Unless human appearance evolved around the 18th century
Thanks to Hans Holbein the Younger, I'd say we actually have a very good idea what Henry VIII (and many of his contemporaries) looked like ...
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c7/Hans_Holbein,_the_Younger,_Around_1497-1543_-_Portrait_of_Henry_VIII_of_England_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg
http://www.hans-holbein.org/91025/Portrait-of-Henry-VIII-1540-large.jpg
http://uploads8.wikiart.org/images/hans-holbein-the-younger/portrait-of-henry-viii.jpg
Certainly in later life, yes (although only the first of those is actually by Holbein, and it's the only surviving painting of Henry VIII by Holbein. The middle one is a copy of the Whitehall mural that Holbein painted but which was unfortunately destroyed by fire at the end of the 17th century. Holbein's cartoon for the mural does survive though and is in the National Portrait Gallery: http://www.npg.org.uk/learning/digital/portraiture/perspective-seeing-where-you-stand/drawing.php)
As the other forum member said though, we have Holbein's images of the Tudor courtiers and fortunately he happened to be one of the greatest portraitists of all time.
This is best seen in the many drawings he made rather than in his finished portraits.
(although this portrait of Thomas Wyatt the Younger, recently attributed to Holbein, is a stunner: http://www.masterart.eu/tsmedia/WeissThephoto/Weiss1112007T16434.jpg?qlt=75&cell=2000,2000&cvt=jpg)
The best of the drawings are superb and leap off the page as real human beings with real thoughts and emotions:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/89/Simon_George_of_Quocoute_by_Hans_Holbein_the_Younger.jpg
https://mercuriuspoliticus.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/381px-sir_nicholas_poyntz_by_hans_holbein_the_younger.jpg?w=500
http://www.vam.ac.uk/__data/assets/image/0020/176042/holbein_sir_richard.jpg
http://www.andrewgrahamdixon.com/article_images/The%20naked%20face.jpg
Unfortunately Holbein didn't label many of his drawings and the identifications of the sitters were made much later by Sir John Cheke, the tutor of Edward VI. This has led to all sorts of problems e.g. the much-discussed drawing that allegedly shows Anne Boleyn (as identified by Cheke) but which many people think is a completely different person altogether:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b9/Anne_Boleyn_by_Hans_Holbein_the_Younger.jpg
If Holbein did actually paint the queen's portrait (and surely he must've done) then it was probably destroyed after her execution.
In answer to a query on a separate thread; from the information in my TV guide, it appears this series covers both the books Wolf Hall and Bring Up the Bodies.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/tv-and-radio-reviews/11351671/Wolf-Hall-episode-one-first-look-review.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2912524/A-7m-budget-stellar-cast-BBC-s-unmissable-Wolf-Hall-Greatest-Period-Drama-Made.html
Not surprising as their target audience are likely to tune in. Front Row was positive as well.
25 mins to go.
Are we talking tone or lighting? lol
lol Lighting. The interior scenes at night are extremely dark. Pretty hard to see them.
Yeah it is pretty dark, I suppose that's more natural. I'm just getting distracted by pointing out all the actors in it. I didn't realise so many known actors were in it. I'm a bit of an Anton Lesser fan so I'm happy to see him.
That's what I read they were going for, they were trying to make the whole production as authentic as possible. Candlelight only in the night-time scenes. It's working imo, it's dark but you can still what's going on, I can anyway.