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Child Protection/social Work/divorce
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Morning folks. Apologies in advance for the long post.
My brother and his wife split up in October. The breakup initially was amicable, but no longer. There are 2 boys, one at 7 and one who is almost 2. Over the last few months, the eldest boy (my mum and dad and I see him once a week for a fw hours) has been showing signs of neglect. Turning up dirty, clothes are 2 small etc. The week before last, he has extremely upset and said that he had toothache for 2 weeks and mum had been ignoring it. That, and another couple of things (which i'd rather not say) rang alarm bells. I looked at the local child protection webiste and 6 out of 8 indicators applied.
I spoke with my brother, who is working 8000 miles away, and voiced my concerns and decided that social work should be approached. I duly did this. Well, to say this poop hit the fan is an understatement. Thie first thing that was done is that ex-wife texy my brother saying that we will never get to see the boys again and that I had been "in spreading lies"
There was never any malice in it - my bro and her are adults and can sort their own stuff out, i only did it out of sheer concern for the boys. My bro is home from work this weekend, and was meant to be seeing the boys, however ex is now dictating that he can indeed see them, but they have not to see me or my parents and that he has to stay in a hotel. According to SW she can indeed do that. Even although there are CPS issues with the boys.
What I really would like to know, is where is best to go from here? To Court to arrange some official access? If so, how do we go about it all? Sorry for being a bit rambly and vague, but just want to take some of the pressure of my brother when he gets home.
Thanks in advance for any help
My brother and his wife split up in October. The breakup initially was amicable, but no longer. There are 2 boys, one at 7 and one who is almost 2. Over the last few months, the eldest boy (my mum and dad and I see him once a week for a fw hours) has been showing signs of neglect. Turning up dirty, clothes are 2 small etc. The week before last, he has extremely upset and said that he had toothache for 2 weeks and mum had been ignoring it. That, and another couple of things (which i'd rather not say) rang alarm bells. I looked at the local child protection webiste and 6 out of 8 indicators applied.
I spoke with my brother, who is working 8000 miles away, and voiced my concerns and decided that social work should be approached. I duly did this. Well, to say this poop hit the fan is an understatement. Thie first thing that was done is that ex-wife texy my brother saying that we will never get to see the boys again and that I had been "in spreading lies"
There was never any malice in it - my bro and her are adults and can sort their own stuff out, i only did it out of sheer concern for the boys. My bro is home from work this weekend, and was meant to be seeing the boys, however ex is now dictating that he can indeed see them, but they have not to see me or my parents and that he has to stay in a hotel. According to SW she can indeed do that. Even although there are CPS issues with the boys.
What I really would like to know, is where is best to go from here? To Court to arrange some official access? If so, how do we go about it all? Sorry for being a bit rambly and vague, but just want to take some of the pressure of my brother when he gets home.
Thanks in advance for any help
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Comments
Anyway, seeing as your brother is home this weekend best let him talk to her and find out what is going on and I suggest that you stay away from the kids for this weekend.
I am guessing that you and your parents having the kids is outside the basic visitation rights laid out in the agreement ? Wait till after the weekend before your next step, if you start going to court then the chances are she will just dig her heels in further and insist that visitation rights are followed to the letter.
If it was just we silly wee things, then maybe I could have just persevered with calls and texting or maybe even going to her house, but things with the boys had gone beyond that (to a dangerous level, incidentally) And still, now - she does not see that there is a problem. So until she does, am not sure I would have been able to help her fully - even if she had allowed me to.
To reply to C4rv - there are no visitation terms legally set out. At the moment, it is just at her grace that he is getting to see them at all. This is what I am asking for advice with - how would my brother go about this?
http://theparentconnection.org.uk/#
Mediation will need to be the first step, followed by an application for a Contact Order in the Family Court if that is refused or doesn't resolve anything.
Public funding for such applications has been scrapped by the current Government, but it's not a complicated process and your brother can get advice and guidance on how to do it here...
http://www.fnf.org.uk/
Also...
http://www.cafcass.gov.uk/
The best thing you can do is to pass this information on, and then stay out of it for everyone's sake.
My mother reported me to social services - although in her case it was maliciously. I haven't spoken to her for three years and she hasn't seen my youngest for over a year. I don't ever intend to have contact with her again. I think eventually son will want to see her, but not any time soon. Even though there was no genuine case, social services caused so much stress and disruption that my Son developed alopecia.
You and your parents have no legal rights to see your nephews/grandchildren. You can go to court but it will be up to a judge to decide if it is in your nephew/grandchildren's best interest to have contact. Given the level of animosity I dare say their mum feels towards you now, you may only get indirect contact. But as a side effect, you'll probably destroy any chance of recovering any kind of relationship.
The best thing now is to make sure you don't make things worse for your brother.
Has your brother seen any of these issues, he really is your first point of contact regarding the children. Has this been going on for a while ? Has your brother been out of contact with them that long ?
As for this major issue, how major ? Did one of the kids end up in hospital ? You say that CPS had already been involved ?
If there are serious concerns about the children's welfare, then SSD will call a conference to consider whether the children should be placed on the Child Protection Register - and both parents will usually be invited to attend.
Contact/ access to children by absent parents is dealt with by the Private side of the Family Court, whereas SSD child protection work is dealt with by the Public side of the Court. Although in the majority of the cases dealt with by SSD, matters will be sorted out without the need to involve the Court.
SSD may well encourage the mother to allow contact with father, but they have limited authority in enabling contact.
Relate have family mediators in some branches, and if funding can be obtained for some mediation sessions with Relate, I would highly recommend that route.
Public funding is still available for mediation, and there are various mediation agencies and solicitor's practices offering services.
However, very few will have the skills and level of training found in Relate mediators.
http://www.relate.org.uk/relationship-help/help-separation-and-divorce
I applaud the OP for caring and for trying to do something to protect those boys from harm. The links posted are useful and I hope the OP gets the information they need.
Isn't our opinion what OP is asking for ?
No. He is asking for advice, to help his brother, on what can be done to ensure contact with the children.
It's unhelpful to criticise what's already been done. The OP is asking for help, how can pointing out what they shouldn't have done, be helpful? To be honest I'd just let it rest, unless you can help.
Stressmonkey - I'm so very sorry that your Mum did that to you out of spite - I can fully appreciate you feeling as if I should have handled it differently. I wish that my sister in law had been open to my offers of help previously, then it maybe wouldn't have got to this.
C4rv - My brother saw the boys over Christmas and New Year. There were concerns then, but nothing to which it escalated to. He has had very little contact whilst he has been away despite calling numerous times a day. The phone is very rarely answered and calls are never returned.
Peter CJ - I appreciate you taking the time to post those links for me - they will be very helpful am sure (have had a quick glance, but would like to read them more thoroughly)
and 4Smiffy - thanks for appreciating I was looking for actual advice.
Yes but when what has been done is report someone then I am unsure what else can be advised, an apology might help but I wouldn't hold my breath on that one.
I did not go straight to SW - I contacted my sister in law on numerous occasions which were ignored. My brother cannot contact her as she never answers her phone and he works out of the country. This was completely the last resort.
It will be left in my brothers hands when he is at home this week. I just wanted to have as much info as I can give him.
OP actions in the past totally indicate how she is trying to handle this in the future. Let your brother try and deal with it FIRST !!!!!!! and there has been some pretty good advice and links for what HE should be looking at.
stephanieplum, I know your primary concern is for the welfare of the children but you won't be able to do anything if your locked out of their lives. Let the relations between you (and your parents) and your ex-SIL calm down. As a parent I can understand that she is probably very angry with your right now.
The things the OP said and didn't say definitely set alarm bells ringing for me.
The father should already have equal parental responsibilities with the mother. Thus she should not be able to dictate who and where the children visit during their contact with their father. I'm certain she would not heed such limitations from the father.
The social services can, if the children are under their responsibility, make such stipulations under threat of removing the children. But in the OP instance I cannot see why they would - back the mother - since it is the mother's care of the children being scrutinised not that of the wider family.
I would ask to speak with the social worker together with the boy's grandparents. Social workers are very keen to work with all members of the family, as this is in the best interests of the child. Social workers like to have meetings with everyone who is involved the children's care, ask for that. The boy's mother cannot dictate who can see the boys, it's hard to understand quite what's going on there. In light of your concerns, you did entirely the right thing in speaking to a social worker.
I am sure you did the right thing (even with the outcome) child safety is always the first consideration when faced with the possibility of child neglect or abuse. I know the outcome has become something of a mess but (I believe in Mandatory reporting) safeguarding is crucial.
In my experience 'Neglect' is often the 'unnoticed' form of abuse! and sometimes a sign of 'adult depression' &/or more serious Mental health issues, and can even be a precursor to more serious abuse- this is why we must report neglect.
I hope given time and arbitration you and your brother will be able to re-establish contact with the children. please consider using a arbitration service your bro has every right to see his children and I'd hope you too would get to see them often.
you could also talk to the social worker.
No but it might be the couple of other things that the OP would rather not say.
My idea of neglect is clearly different to yours. What would you class as neglect?
So how can any reasonable advice be offered when most of the facts are not known?
It must be extreme or serious for someone to call SS over any matter. But there are consequences for this.
The children are THE MOST IMPORTANT in this and if you truly believe they are suffering then you need evidence, hard evidence and support.
Talking to the mother is futile because she obviously does not think anything is wrong with her parenting because she would have been different with her parenting.
And as the resulting "ban" for other family members has shown, mum has reacted to the action taken.
Dad needs to sort this out with mum as best he can and tread very carefully but try and smooth things
However if you do believe the children are at risk you must act and have enough evidence and be prepared for a big fight because it will only get very messy
The kids are put first 👌
I can see where your oops you're coming from.:D