Was HD Mac ever going to be possible if the launch had been early - mid 90's?

Zeropoint1Zeropoint1 Posts: 10,917
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Was the launch of HD ever practical in the UK and Europe with DMAC and D2MAC? I know there were problems with the manufacture of the chip sets and they were very expensive to produce. But if the entire European industry had gotten behind the project 'properly' and made the launch date a more realistic early - mid 90's (?) Would we have gone 1250 (1175) iirc HD much sooner?

Or did the industry know that digital compression was improving all the time and it was best to wait as MPEG1 was with us and no doubt MPEG2 with it's much more efficient system would at least have been in the ideas / planning stage if nothing else.

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  • DWA9ISDWA9IS Posts: 10,557
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    1152 would have been a good vertical resolution for HD in the 625/25 countries as 576*2 = 1152 also 1440 was the horizontal res which was twice 720, so to upscale would have been easy.
    Later when they switched to square pixels they could just expand the horizontal res to 2048 which is nearly 3*720 but for 4:3 content using the centre 1440 pixels would work anyway.
  • Nigel GoodwinNigel Goodwin Posts: 58,439
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    Zeropoint1 wrote: »
    Was the launch of HD ever practical in the UK and Europe with DMAC and D2MAC? I know there were problems with the manufacture of the chip sets and they were very expensive to produce. But if the entire European industry had gotten behind the project 'properly' and made the launch date a more realistic early - mid 90's (?) Would we have gone 1250 (1175) iirc HD much sooner?

    I doubt it - no point doing it as analogue, FAR too expensive - it's only digital that has made it viable.

    It 'could' have been done via satellite, but there's no where near the required bandwidth terrestrially - although I suppose they could have taken all four channels off and replaced them with a single HD channel :D
  • DWA9ISDWA9IS Posts: 10,557
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    I doubt it - no point doing it as analogue, FAR too expensive - it's only digital that has made it viable.

    It 'could' have been done via satellite, but there's no where near the required bandwidth terrestrially - although I suppose they could have taken all four channels off and replaced them with a single HD channel :D

    Lol just 1 channel that would have ended up being BBC 1! They would have had to provide all households with cheap analogue sat equipment and broadcast the main 4/5 channels on there in 625 pal for those that didn't have a HD tv in the 90s.
    Obviously very impractical, but I still think HD, when it was brought in digitally in Europe, should have been 2048*1152, as that resolution would have worked being double height of 576 and 4:3 could have still fitted nicely in the 1440*1152 area of the whole 2048*1152.
    But then we would have had 2 worldwide standards still! So not the best in that way.
  • Mark CMark C Posts: 20,877
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    I doubt it - no point doing it as analogue, FAR too expensive - it's only digital that has made it viable.

    It 'could' have been done via satellite, but there's no where near the required bandwidth terrestrially - although I suppose they could have taken all four channels off and replaced them with a single HD channel :D

    Back in the 80s/90s the Japanese developed MUSE, that compressed a 20 MHz bandwidth HD signal down to 8 MHz

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_sub-Nyquist_sampling_encoding
  • spiney2spiney2 Posts: 27,058
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    muse didnt work. the terrestrial version of hi vision was impractical.

    hdmac certainly worked but would have been a very clunky mistake given that compression was becoming available.

    what basically happened is computer people didnt talk to tv people and compression was first applied to broadcast tv distribution quite late in the day.
  • spiney2spiney2 Posts: 27,058
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    the bbc satellite projject around 1984 would have used epal to transmit "hd assist" on a 2nd satellite channel. both this and hdmac worked but on satellite only.
  • spiney2spiney2 Posts: 27,058
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    both atsc usa and hdmac europe were born out of protectionism ie a complete panic that asian elctronics imports would swamp domestic manufacturing. it was all political not technological.

    the atsc gensys proposal was orignally a "non starter" but became the best option when mpeg compression was added on ......
  • spiney2spiney2 Posts: 27,058
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    .... hi vision WAS transmitted in japan, and called MUSE, but by sat and cable, and not the same version proposed for terrestrial distribution which was tested but found non viable.
  • Mark CMark C Posts: 20,877
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    spiney2 wrote: »
    muse didnt work. .

    Really ? Well I saw it in the 90s working on a visit to NHK in Japan
  • mr williamsmr williams Posts: 1,744
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    Zeropoint1 wrote: »
    DMAC and D2MAC

    :D:D Ah, that brings back memories.....
  • spiney2spiney2 Posts: 27,058
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    Mark C wrote: »
    Really ? Well I saw it in the 90s working on a visit to NHK in Japan

    it was unreliable under normal terrestrial broadcast conditions. which is why the "commercial" version was satellite and cable only.

    it was nhk showing off hi vision to everyone passing by (and their dogs) which prompted a western panic reaction and atsc and hdmac (eureka 147 or whatever it was called) ........

    satellite muse shut down, of course, since it was made obsolete by mpeg .......
  • spiney2spiney2 Posts: 27,058
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    .. terr muse tried to fit the 20 mhz signal into a standard 8 mhz tv channel using pulse amplitude modulation. a further "trick" on top of multiple sub nyquist. and it didnt work. on either radio or cable, the delivered pulses were too mangled to be discriminated at the receiver.
  • spiney2spiney2 Posts: 27,058
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    sorry .... i meant analogue cable headends. it certainly would have been possible to feed muse+ ie truncated hivison on qam digital cable delivery ........
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