I think addiction is genetic. I don't think any addict can take responsibility really. They are doing what they are doing to cope at the time.
It's all very well to blame them and say it's your fault. But do you really think that anyone would chose to be in such a desperate and dark place as addiction if they could?
Many have a chance to get clean but never want to My Dad could have if he wanted to but he never wanted to.
I blame nobody but him for what he was like he knew the risks before he started drinking but still made the choice to start.
You think because I see alcohol as a drug, I use the term "druggies"?
Why are you so intent on focussing on the term "druggies"?
The original issue was simply that it's obtuse to refer to alcohol as "a drug" when it's simply more accurate to describe it as "alcohol".
It's daft to say, for example, "Amy Winehouse died of drug abuse" when such a statement will, at best, require clarification that the "drug" in question was actually alcohol.
Surely anybody with half a brain would accept that it's more sensible to say "Amy Winehouse died of alcohol abuse"?
I really can't see how anybody could fail to accept the logic of this unless their goal was only to refuse to admit they were mistaken when they said she died of "drug abuse".
I think addiction is genetic. I don't think any addict can take responsibility really. They are doing what they are doing to cope at the time.
It's all very well to blame them and say it's your fault. But do you really think that anyone would chose to be in such a desperate and dark place as addiction if they could?
I don't agree... every one has personal responsibility... if that were true every child of an addict would be an addict and they are not... and there would be no addicts from non addict families but there are... it is about choices sometimes you make bad ones and it is up to you to rectify that.
Many have a chance to get clean but never want to My Dad could have if he wanted to but he never wanted to.
I blame nobody but him for what he was like he knew the risks before he started drinking but still made the choice to start.
Yeah I thought that about my Mum too. But then later in life I experienced and learned more, from a different point of view than a child parent thing.
I know how you feel. I felt like you do too. I f**king hated my Mum. But 11 years on after her death I feel bad about that now.
No one wants to be an addict. No one likes it. No one is happy living like that. Every one of them would stop using whatever drug they are using if they could.
Why are you so intent on focussing on the term "druggies"?
The original issue was simply that it's obtuse to refer to alcohol as "a drug" when it's simply more accurate to describe it as "alcohol".
It's daft to say, for example, "Amy Winehouse died of drug abuse" when such a statement will, at best, require clarification that the "drug" in question was actually alcohol.
Surely anybody with half a brain would accept that it's more sensible to say "Amy Winehouse died of alcohol abuse"?
I really can't see how anybody could fail to accept the logic of this unless their goal was only to refuse to admit they were mistaken when they said she died of "drug abuse".
Someone said she didn't die of drug abuse...She died of alcohol abuse...Alcohol is a drug.
But not everyone is your dad. I'm sorry you feel so bitter about him, no pun intended. But everyone's situation is different.
I agree that sometimes, that addict has only themselves to blame...BUt it's not the case all the time.
One of the reasons I'm angry at him is his own Dad was the same so he knew what risks came with drinking and the fact I don't shows you don't have to follow in the footsteps of your own parents
I don't agree... every one has personal responsibility... if that were true every child of an addict would be an addict and they are not... and there would be no addicts from non addict families but there are... it is about choices sometimes you make bad ones and it is up to you to rectify that.
Yeah I thought that about my Mum too. But then later in life I experienced and learned more, from a different point of view than a child parent thing.
I know how you feel. I felt like you do too. I f**king hated my Mum. But 11 years on after her death I feel bad about that now.
No one wants to be an addict. No one likes it. No one is happy living like that. Every one of them would stop using whatever drug they are using if they could.
I know a lot about his childhood ect and in a way that makes it worse as he knew what it was like to grow up like that so why do it to his own kids
One of the reasons I'm angry at him is his own Dad was the same so he knew what risks came with drinking and the fact I don't shows you don't have to follow in the footsteps of your own parents
Don't have to, no. But some people don't get a choice possibly. Maybe it is genetic. Just because you're lucky enough not to become an alcoholic like your father, doesn't mean others have it so good.
It's like taking the responsibility away from the individual whilst equally aportioning the condition to environmental factors.
Addiction, per se, is a highly complex combination of a number of factors and there are no indicators to show that one single thing attributes to it.
I'm an absolute addict when it comes to smoking, it almost controls me and that is something that I would like to regain personal control of.
Although I like a drink, I can take it or leave it, even though I act like a piss head most of the time.
Gambling doesn't affect me, I used to be able to count cards and was really good at winning so was often distraught when I saw my mates lose ALL their wages in one sitting on the fruit machines.
I feel 'blame' is a euphemism for 'what is the route of the problem'.
I was having a heated discussion with my partner earlier over this subject
We'd been watching Jeremy Kyle, the one with Blake Fielder-Civil and how some sections of society blamed him for Amy Winehouse's death
I said I could see where they were coming from, as he introduced Amy to heroin and other drugs, but my partner was adamant he didn't force her to use them so it was her fault she died
Anyway, this led me to say that in not all cases an addiction can be laid firmly at the door of the person addicted
I said an alcoholic could have had a rotten childhood for example, and would drown it all out through booze
I said a gambler could be influenced by the mass of bookies on every high street
And a drug taker could again have a reason for their addiction
She wouldn't have it though, and said no one forces someone to drink, no one forces anyone to gamble, and no one is forced to take hard drugs
I feel 'blame' is a euphemism for 'what is the route of the problem'.
S'funny how people see things in different ways.
I don't think it's wrong to talk about "blame" but that's because I'm not thinking of it in a sort of "are addicts to blame for their own downfall" sort of way.
Instead, I'm reading it as "who's to blame for causing people to become addicted to these things?" way.
I mean, I don't have any problem with suggesting that, for example, cigarette companies should be blamed for creating an image of smoking which encourages people to smoke or blaming online gambling companies for encouraging people to gamble.
I'm not really keen on the idea of "blaming" addicts for their own situation (even though the responsibility for sorting themselves out DOES lie with them) but, to me, the idea of "blame" is more about discussing who's responsible for getting people involved with these things.
I don't think it's wrong to talk about "blame" but that's because I'm not thinking of it in a sort of "are addicts to blame for their own downfall" sort of way.
Instead, I'm reading it as "who's to blame for causing people to become addicted to these things?" way.
I mean, I don't have any problem with suggesting that, for example, cigarette companies should be blamed for creating an image of smoking which encourages people to smoke or blaming online gambling companies for encouraging people to gamble.
I'm not really keen on the idea of "blaming" addicts for their own situation (even though the responsibility for sorting themselves out DOES lie with them) but, to me, the idea of "blame" is more about discussing who's responsible for getting people involved with these things.
You're gonna hate me even more now, as I agree with EVERYTHING you say.
Really bloody eloquent and sums up what I would have said if me brain wasn't so addled.
I think addiction is genetic. I don't think any addict can take responsibility really. They are doing what they are doing to cope at the time.
It's all very well to blame them and say it's your fault. But do you really think that anyone would chose to be in such a desperate and dark place as addiction if they could?
Tonight I overheard an advert to do with gambling, it was Saturday Night Takeaway bingo, I think, and the last thing it says is, YOU'LL LOVE THE RUSH... Isn't that just a bit irresponsible when gambling is known to be detrimental to so many lives?
Not saying this sort of thing is all that is to blame, but it is the same as with the food industry. People shouldn't have to fight against a tide of irresponsibility that comes from those with power to influence our choices and exploit our weaknesses, which are human and will not go away.
Tonight I overheard an advert to do with gambling, it was Saturday Night Takeaway bingo, I think, and the last thing it says is, YOU'LL LOVE THE RUSH... Isn't that just a bit irresponsible when gambling is known to be detrimental to so many lives?
Not saying this sort of thing is all that is to blame, but it is the same as with the food industry. People shouldn't have to fight against a tide of irresponsibility that comes from those with power to influence our choices and exploit our weaknesses, which are human and will not go away.
At the risk of having housewives moaning at me for underestimating the work they do, that's something that bugs me too.
The adverts for "Cheeky Bingo" (or whatever it is) that appear on telly through the day seem to make a big deal out of the whole "Sit down for half an hour with a nice cup of tea and enjoy a sociable chat with friendly people and, by the way, while you're here you can participate in a nice, harmless game of bingo. Or two. Or ten. Or twenty. For £1 a go" thing.
And that's an advert targeted at a demographic who's probably stuck at home, either alone or with small kids, who's probably a bit desperate for something to do and for some adult company and who, given that they're at home during the day, probably aren't earning money.
That seems like a rather nasty, cynical bit of targeted advertising, right there.
It's kinda like setting up a burger van right outside the local weightwatchers meeting hall.
At the risk of having housewives moaning at me for underestimating the work they do, that's something that bugs me too.
The adverts for "Cheeky Bingo" (or whatever it is) that appear on telly through the day seem to make a big deal out of the whole "Sit down for half an hour with a nice cup of tea and enjoy a sociable chat with friendly people and, by the way, while you're here you can participate in a nice, harmless game of bingo. Or two. Or ten. Or twenty. For £1 a go" thing.
And that's an advert targeted at a demographic who's probably stuck at home, either alone or with small kids, who's probably a bit desperate for something to do and for some adult company and who, given that they're at home during the day, probably aren't earning money.
That seems like a rather nasty, cynical bit of targeted advertising, right there.
It's kinda like setting up a burger van right outside the local weightwatchers meeting hall.
Exactly, the same as adverts aimed at children, then we 'blame' the spoilt, demanding, fat children.
Comments
Many have a chance to get clean but never want to My Dad could have if he wanted to but he never wanted to.
I blame nobody but him for what he was like he knew the risks before he started drinking but still made the choice to start.
Why are you so intent on focussing on the term "druggies"?
The original issue was simply that it's obtuse to refer to alcohol as "a drug" when it's simply more accurate to describe it as "alcohol".
It's daft to say, for example, "Amy Winehouse died of drug abuse" when such a statement will, at best, require clarification that the "drug" in question was actually alcohol.
Surely anybody with half a brain would accept that it's more sensible to say "Amy Winehouse died of alcohol abuse"?
I really can't see how anybody could fail to accept the logic of this unless their goal was only to refuse to admit they were mistaken when they said she died of "drug abuse".
But not everyone is your dad. I'm sorry you feel so bitter about him, no pun intended. But everyone's situation is different.
I agree that sometimes, that addict has only themselves to blame...BUt it's not the case all the time.
I don't agree... every one has personal responsibility... if that were true every child of an addict would be an addict and they are not... and there would be no addicts from non addict families but there are... it is about choices sometimes you make bad ones and it is up to you to rectify that.
Yeah I thought that about my Mum too. But then later in life I experienced and learned more, from a different point of view than a child parent thing.
I know how you feel. I felt like you do too. I f**king hated my Mum. But 11 years on after her death I feel bad about that now.
No one wants to be an addict. No one likes it. No one is happy living like that. Every one of them would stop using whatever drug they are using if they could.
Someone said she didn't die of drug abuse...She died of alcohol abuse...Alcohol is a drug.
I'm not intent on 'druggies' =/
Erm yeah.
There's that obtuse refusal to accept that it's more accurate to refer to alcohol as alcohol that I was talking about.
One of the reasons I'm angry at him is his own Dad was the same so he knew what risks came with drinking and the fact I don't shows you don't have to follow in the footsteps of your own parents
I agree My Dad is alcoholic and I'm Straight Edge
I know a lot about his childhood ect and in a way that makes it worse as he knew what it was like to grow up like that so why do it to his own kids
I'm not sure that is constructive TBH.
It's like taking the responsibility away from the individual whilst equally aportioning the condition to environmental factors.
Addiction, per se, is a highly complex combination of a number of factors and there are no indicators to show that one single thing attributes to it.
I'm an absolute addict when it comes to smoking, it almost controls me and that is something that I would like to regain personal control of.
Although I like a drink, I can take it or leave it, even though I act like a piss head most of the time.
Gambling doesn't affect me, I used to be able to count cards and was really good at winning so was often distraught when I saw my mates lose ALL their wages in one sitting on the fruit machines.
I feel 'blame' is a euphemism for 'what is the route of the problem'.
This is where in a lot of cases 'God' is called in.
I feel a bit disrespectful saying this Flower, but I'm not getting the gist, sorry
your 100% right ,your oh hasn't much empathy.
S'funny how people see things in different ways.
I don't think it's wrong to talk about "blame" but that's because I'm not thinking of it in a sort of "are addicts to blame for their own downfall" sort of way.
Instead, I'm reading it as "who's to blame for causing people to become addicted to these things?" way.
I mean, I don't have any problem with suggesting that, for example, cigarette companies should be blamed for creating an image of smoking which encourages people to smoke or blaming online gambling companies for encouraging people to gamble.
I'm not really keen on the idea of "blaming" addicts for their own situation (even though the responsibility for sorting themselves out DOES lie with them) but, to me, the idea of "blame" is more about discussing who's responsible for getting people involved with these things.
Its ok, I have a tendency to know what I mean, but can't type what I mean.
I meant (as in former thread debates about religion), this is why 'Gods' came about, because of questions that we have that we cannot answer.
IMO of course
You're gonna hate me even more now, as I agree with EVERYTHING you say.
Really bloody eloquent and sums up what I would have said if me brain wasn't so addled.
Cool, thanks for replying, :)give me a mo and I'll read your other posts .....>
spot on.
Not saying this sort of thing is all that is to blame, but it is the same as with the food industry. People shouldn't have to fight against a tide of irresponsibility that comes from those with power to influence our choices and exploit our weaknesses, which are human and will not go away.
Couldn't find owt else, but only went back 2 pages of your posts.
I haven't made any posts in this thread, cos, I have no answers.
Well could be that as well, but in this case to answer the questions that we have no answers for (Or to apportion blame)xx
At the risk of having housewives moaning at me for underestimating the work they do, that's something that bugs me too.
The adverts for "Cheeky Bingo" (or whatever it is) that appear on telly through the day seem to make a big deal out of the whole "Sit down for half an hour with a nice cup of tea and enjoy a sociable chat with friendly people and, by the way, while you're here you can participate in a nice, harmless game of bingo. Or two. Or ten. Or twenty. For £1 a go" thing.
And that's an advert targeted at a demographic who's probably stuck at home, either alone or with small kids, who's probably a bit desperate for something to do and for some adult company and who, given that they're at home during the day, probably aren't earning money.
That seems like a rather nasty, cynical bit of targeted advertising, right there.
It's kinda like setting up a burger van right outside the local weightwatchers meeting hall.
Exactly, the same as adverts aimed at children, then we 'blame' the spoilt, demanding, fat children.
They don't know they are going to become addicted until it's too late.
Nobody is to blame.