agree with that, fans and voters are not neccesarily the same thing.
Anyway, we can argue forever about who has the most potential, personality, niche market appeal blah blah, but we are overlooking the most important aspect for any of them - the product!. If they get the music right and create a bit of word of mouth about it on top of initial 'buy it regardless sales', then there's a chance of longevity. produce crap and any of them will disappear.
Well I think that Joe has a great voice and hope he goes on to do many other things and is rremembered as a singer not just an XF winner. I also feel the same for Matt because for me the only person I could align myself with this year was Matt. Still time will tell its interesting because as you say they are both a 'product'. If I had a product that I wanted to be seen and heard I would put it out into the public areana. Pavlov;);)
Time already submitted their full report through 6 seasons of XF and 9 seasons of American Idol, including appendices and references. It's not looking good.
I would normally agree with however I think that we are going to see something different this year.:)
Well I think that Joe has a great voice and hope he goes on to do many other things and is rremembered as a singer not just an XF winner. I also feel the same for Matt because for me the only person I could align myself with this year was Matt. Still time will tell its interesting because as you say they are both a 'product'. If I had a product that I wanted to be seen and heard I would put it out into the public areana. Pavlov;);)
A great voice is not enough though, and is a subjective thing anyway. The x factor seems to produce a very narrow idea of what a great voice is, one with all edges knocked off. Almost any great artist in pop history would have failed at about bootcamp.
What they need above that vocal thing they do is some artistic relevance, so as to not come over as a backing singer who forgot their place.... at the back:D
Matt Cardle is the most distinctive contestant ever on the XFactor,we were so lucky he was persuaded to go for it,such a talent should not be wasted,where there is success you always get envy and bile,loving that Matt has ruffled a few feathers,
I know that and so do you and I am thrilled that feathers;) I agree with you totally.;)
A great voice is not enough though, and is a subjective thing anyway. The x factor seems to produce a very narrow idea of what a great voice is, one with all edges knocked off. Almost any great artist in pop history would have failed at about bootcamp.
What they need above that vocal thing they do is some artistic relevance, so as to not come over as a backing singer who forgot their place.... at the back:D
The whole thing is highly subjective and habituation etc., infomring such. I also agree with you about narrow band/idea of what a good voice is. I know what I consider to be a 'good' voice however this being DS I won't discuss it. I agree with your comment concerning Bootcamp. I love your reference to backing singerslol;);)
Male winners are doomed on XF for the same reason they are on AI. Most of the voters that get them to the win are females, who vote for them en masse because they fancy them, then forget about them the minute the season ends. I'm sure there are exceptions and some really do enjoy the music, but history shows that the overwhelming majority of them will not support them by purchasing their CDs. Poor Lee DeWyze
At least the teens will buy the CDs. If they cared about CD sales, they would target the shows to a younger audience, but the producers only care about ratings, and the older crowd has proven they will tune in...they just won't purchase music
[QUOTE=Nate27;46777396
Joe won fair and a very deserving winner last year (largest margin win ever in the history of X Factor). The situation is that Syco / Modest does not know how to handle their male artists.
Joe is a brilliant young man, but not given the support and guidance as a deserving winner of this show.
I just hope (and this includes all winners) that they can get away from Syco / Modest because they clearly are the problem, not the artists.[/QUOTE]
I really don't understand why people believe it's always the fault of the Management company.
I voted for Joe last year because he was the best on the show, but will never buy anything he releases.
He's not my cup of tea as a recording artist, but as an X Factor contestant.
I don't think there's anything the Management can/could have done to promote Joe, he just hasn't got charisma, and that goes for all the Male winners, apart from Shayne.
I think Shayne hasn't helped himself as well, fine he didn't release any music for years, but he has got the looks, why didn't he do some modelling or try and get into acting, would have still kept him in the media, he sat at home doing nothing.
Only time will tell how Matt will fare, I think people get carried away with the en mass voting on the show, not thinking about how the artist will fare when the show ends.
I don't really agree here. X Factor has only really found 2 stars (in terms of winners) in Leona and Alexandra. They just happen to be young, pretty girls with amazing voices. Looking at the list of contestants for all the other years, there were no obvious stars there, whoever won in these years would have flopped in the same way.
Shayne Ward is every bit as talented as Leona and Alex. He was 21 years old and needed good management. He didn't get it.
I really don't understand why people believe it's always the fault of the Management company.
I voted for Joe last year because he was the best on the show, but will never buy anything he releases.
He's not my cup of tea as a recording artist, but as an X Factor contestant.
I don't think there's anything the Management can/could have done to promote Joe, he just hasn't got charisma, and that goes for all the Male winners, apart from Shayne.
I think Shayne hasn't helped himself as well, fine he didn't release any music for years, but he has got the looks, why didn't he do some modelling or try and get into acting, would have still kept him in the media, he sat at home doing nothing.
Only time will tell how Matt will fare, I think people get carried away with the en mass voting on the show, not thinking about how the artist will fare when the show ends.
It is Syco / Modest fault. Come on, look at how Joe (and Shayne) has been treated and promoted compared to Leona, Alex, and even other X Factor contestant. The evidences are right there. Clearly you don't know what you are talking about because looks like you are making empty opinions with nothing to back it up.
For example, you understand Joe only had two weeks of promotion compared to Alex, who had about 2 months before her debut. Another is Syco did not properly release his debut video (just released in online) compared to Leona who had been given a proper tv debut. These are only a few on how ridiculous Syco / Modest are in their treatment of Joe (as well as Shayne) and it's pretty clear it is their fault. That is not even an opinion anymore; it is a fact.
To further confirm this is Shayne, who has been put on the shelf after being on a high with great record sales. Louis, who was his manager at that time, gave up because Syco would not allow Shayne to release anything. They wanted to wait 3 years and give him crap for promotion.
And this whole thing about having no personality is an ridiculous comment. Why don't you actually do your research and put some facts down because it's clear that Joe has a charismatic, endearing, and down-to-earth personality.
Joe has not been managed well as a well-deserving winner of this show and it is clear that Syco / Modest don't know sh*t and can't handle / nurture great talent with a wonderful personality and killer looks.
It is Syco / Modest fault. Come on, look at how Joe (and Shayne) has been treated and promoted compared to Leona, Alex, and even other X Factor contestant. The evidences are right there. Clearly you don't know what you are talking about because looks like you are making empty opinions with nothing to back it up.
To further confirm this is Shayne, who has been put on the shelf after being on a high with great record sales. Louis, who was his manager at that time, gave up because Syco would not allow Shayne to release anything. They wanted to wait 3 years and give him crap for promotion.
And this whole thing about having no personality is an ridiculous comment. Why don't you actually do your research and put some facts down because it's clear that Joe has a charismatic, endearing, and down-to-earth personality.
Joe has not been managed well as a well-deserving winner of this show and it is clear that Syco / Modest don't know sh*t and can't handle / nurture great talent with a wonderful personality and killer looks.
Oh please, the record company or the management company are not the ones buying the records, it's the general public. How much promotion do you need than performing in front of an audience of millions.
Some of the celeb performers got to number 1 in the charts on the back of their x factor performance.
I don't have to do any research, if an artist is not relevant, there is no amount of promotion you can give them, it just won't work.
Oh please, the record company or the management company are not the ones buying the records, it's the general public. How much promotion do you need than performing in front of an audience of millions.
Some of the celeb performers got to number 1 in the charts on the back of their x factor performance.
I don't have to do any research, if an artist is not relevant, there is no amount of promotion you can give them, it just won't work.
True and if the label and management company don't style the artist in a relevant way and give them music which is current they fail. Simple!! XF winners/runners up have no voice, they do as they are told and get what they are given. It's naive to think otherwise.
Olly Murs had a weak vocal and was unpopular compared to others on XF if you look at the statistics and yet the superior talent who won does worse in the end. Look at what they were given by their labels.
True and if the label and management company don't style the artist in a relevant way and give them music which is current they fail. Simple!! XF winners/runners up have no voice, they do as they are told and get what they are given. It's naive to think otherwise.
Olly Murs had a weak vocal and was unpopular compared to others on XF if you look at the statistics and yet the superior talent who won does worse in the end. Look at what they were given by their labels. Work it out, it isn't rocket science.
Olly had the imput of Epic and having watched what happened carefully over the past 12 months this is what makes the difference even down to airplay.
Joe has not been managed well as a well-deserving winner of this show and it is clear that Syco / Modest don't know sh*t and can't handle / nurture great talent with a wonderful personality and killer looks.
Syco gets all the money it needs from the show and the winning single. It doesn't care about what happens to the winners after the show, because there is always next year. If Joe was so popular then why have the public lost interest in him?
Oh, and as a Joe stalker you are always trying to clutch straws at positive things about him. Someone will be doing the same next year but with Matt Cardle. And prove that you are not this DS member called Vincent32009 please.;)
Shadow, will address you this one time because your posts are clearly attacking forum members personally; and that is not what this forum is about and that is not for me to handle.
First, looks like you are a Joe attacker, so probably had lamb for your Christmas dinner. You probably shot that yourself and enjoyed the carnage.
Second, I don't need to be positive about Joe because Joe does that himself. Why do you think I am not worried like he is not worried. There are exciting things happening in the new year like he said himself.
Ohh... I am not the one doing the stalking here (pot kettle black). I am correcting people's empty and clearly uneducated comments like yourself. You are the one attacking Joe and looks like making ridiculous accusations against other forum members. Reminds me of Uroboros1 or maybe you are this vincent guy yourself.
Well how is Nate27 not Vincent32009? Both come from LA, both support Joe McElderry and both think they are absolutely correct and that others are making ridiculous comments. Well it doesn't change the fact that the public aren't interested in him anymore.
Happy New Years, Uroboros1, or Shadow, or Vincent wherever you are in the world! Maybe letting go of hate should be your New Year's resolution or being a vegetarian. Might do some good!
You kinda of proved the fact that people here make empty ridiculous comments!
Ohhh... that's another possible New Year's resolution for you.
PS: There is a crazy blizzard in NY right now and flights are canceled till Jan 1. So safe travels.
True and if the label and management company don't style the artist in a relevant way and give them music which is current they fail. Simple!! XF winners/runners up have no voice, they do as they are told and get what they are given. It's naive to think otherwise.
Olly Murs had a weak vocal and was unpopular compared to others on XF if you look at the statistics and yet the superior talent who won does worse in the end. Look at what they were given by their labels.
Work it out, it isn't rocket science.
Fine. So what do you believe the record label should have given to Joe to make people rush out and buy his records?
.
You honestly believe if Joe had been signed by an independent label, he would be a successful artist?
Joe was good for what he was, a contestant on the X factor.
Fine. So what do you believe the record label should have given to Joe to make people rush out and buy his records?
.
You honestly believe if Joe had been signed by an independent label, he would be a successful artist?
Joe was good for what he was, a contestant on the X factor.
OK I know you didn't ask me but here's my 2 cents worth. It's hard to know what would have worked when the basic ground work was so bad.
The direction was a shocker even for Joe fans who were trying to put 2 and 2 together to figure out what was going on. So there really should have been some preparation for it by the label by it was carried out like a top secret operation.
Joe should have got ast least the same promo as Olly got I know Joe got the xfactor performance- all of 3 mins after been hidden away for most of the year with a track and image that was totally unrecognisable. We even had Alex fans coming on the forum asking what was the story with Joe as her promo had started so much earlier than his.
Olly got 6-8 weeks pre release promo Joe 3-4.
Joe got no HMV signing.
Joe got no poster or billboard advertising.
Joe got very poor airplay barely making the top 50 airplay.
Global who own Capital, galaxy, heart etc refused to play his single and he only made the c list on radio 1.
Syco simply couldn't be ar*ed. As to why, well I guess we all have theories but who really knows. Olly has Epic on board and the imput from a real music label has been the key and fair play to him.
The single and album were pretty well recieved by music critics but let's face it, it's all about sales.
Personally I'd rather see Syco drop him because at this stage they are doing more harm than good.
Comments
Well I think that Joe has a great voice and hope he goes on to do many other things and is rremembered as a singer not just an XF winner. I also feel the same for Matt because for me the only person I could align myself with this year was Matt. Still time will tell its interesting because as you say they are both a 'product'. If I had a product that I wanted to be seen and heard I would put it out into the public areana. Pavlov;);)
I am sure you are right;)
I would normally agree with however I think that we are going to see something different this year.:)
A great voice is not enough though, and is a subjective thing anyway. The x factor seems to produce a very narrow idea of what a great voice is, one with all edges knocked off. Almost any great artist in pop history would have failed at about bootcamp.
What they need above that vocal thing they do is some artistic relevance, so as to not come over as a backing singer who forgot their place.... at the back:D
I know that and so do you and I am thrilled that feathers;) I agree with you totally.;)
The whole thing is highly subjective and habituation etc., infomring such. I also agree with you about narrow band/idea of what a good voice is. I know what I consider to be a 'good' voice however this being DS I won't discuss it. I agree with your comment concerning Bootcamp. I love your reference to backing singerslol;);)
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Joe won fair and a very deserving winner last year (largest margin win ever in the history of X Factor). The situation is that Syco / Modest does not know how to handle their male artists.
Joe is a brilliant young man, but not given the support and guidance as a deserving winner of this show.
I just hope (and this includes all winners) that they can get away from Syco / Modest because they clearly are the problem, not the artists.[/QUOTE]
I really don't understand why people believe it's always the fault of the Management company.
I voted for Joe last year because he was the best on the show, but will never buy anything he releases.
He's not my cup of tea as a recording artist, but as an X Factor contestant.
I don't think there's anything the Management can/could have done to promote Joe, he just hasn't got charisma, and that goes for all the Male winners, apart from Shayne.
I think Shayne hasn't helped himself as well, fine he didn't release any music for years, but he has got the looks, why didn't he do some modelling or try and get into acting, would have still kept him in the media, he sat at home doing nothing.
Only time will tell how Matt will fare, I think people get carried away with the en mass voting on the show, not thinking about how the artist will fare when the show ends.
Shayne Ward is every bit as talented as Leona and Alex. He was 21 years old and needed good management. He didn't get it.
It is Syco / Modest fault. Come on, look at how Joe (and Shayne) has been treated and promoted compared to Leona, Alex, and even other X Factor contestant. The evidences are right there. Clearly you don't know what you are talking about because looks like you are making empty opinions with nothing to back it up.
For example, you understand Joe only had two weeks of promotion compared to Alex, who had about 2 months before her debut. Another is Syco did not properly release his debut video (just released in online) compared to Leona who had been given a proper tv debut. These are only a few on how ridiculous Syco / Modest are in their treatment of Joe (as well as Shayne) and it's pretty clear it is their fault. That is not even an opinion anymore; it is a fact.
To further confirm this is Shayne, who has been put on the shelf after being on a high with great record sales. Louis, who was his manager at that time, gave up because Syco would not allow Shayne to release anything. They wanted to wait 3 years and give him crap for promotion.
And this whole thing about having no personality is an ridiculous comment. Why don't you actually do your research and put some facts down because it's clear that Joe has a charismatic, endearing, and down-to-earth personality.
Arm Wrestling with Vernon Key: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=164KOVka7N4
Graham Norton Intervew Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ez6C8EoeoVQ
Graham Norton Intervew Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_ilpMk0fss
KEY 103 Manchester Interview: http://www.mediafire.com/?etl2kbyktba5fvo
Joe has not been managed well as a well-deserving winner of this show and it is clear that Syco / Modest don't know sh*t and can't handle / nurture great talent with a wonderful personality and killer looks.
Oh please, the record company or the management company are not the ones buying the records, it's the general public. How much promotion do you need than performing in front of an audience of millions.
Some of the celeb performers got to number 1 in the charts on the back of their x factor performance.
I don't have to do any research, if an artist is not relevant, there is no amount of promotion you can give them, it just won't work.
True and if the label and management company don't style the artist in a relevant way and give them music which is current they fail. Simple!! XF winners/runners up have no voice, they do as they are told and get what they are given. It's naive to think otherwise.
Olly Murs had a weak vocal and was unpopular compared to others on XF if you look at the statistics and yet the superior talent who won does worse in the end. Look at what they were given by their labels.
Work it out, it isn't rocket science.
Olly had the imput of Epic and having watched what happened carefully over the past 12 months this is what makes the difference even down to airplay.
Exactly!
Syco gets all the money it needs from the show and the winning single. It doesn't care about what happens to the winners after the show, because there is always next year. If Joe was so popular then why have the public lost interest in him?
Oh, and as a Joe stalker you are always trying to clutch straws at positive things about him. Someone will be doing the same next year but with Matt Cardle. And prove that you are not this DS member called Vincent32009 please.;)
First, looks like you are a Joe attacker, so probably had lamb for your Christmas dinner. You probably shot that yourself and enjoyed the carnage.
Second, I don't need to be positive about Joe because Joe does that himself. Why do you think I am not worried like he is not worried. There are exciting things happening in the new year like he said himself.
Ohh... I am not the one doing the stalking here (pot kettle black). I am correcting people's empty and clearly uneducated comments like yourself. You are the one attacking Joe and looks like making ridiculous accusations against other forum members. Reminds me of Uroboros1 or maybe you are this vincent guy yourself.
You kinda of proved the fact that people here make empty ridiculous comments!
Ohhh... that's another possible New Year's resolution for you.
PS: There is a crazy blizzard in NY right now and flights are canceled till Jan 1. So safe travels.
Fine. So what do you believe the record label should have given to Joe to make people rush out and buy his records?
.
You honestly believe if Joe had been signed by an independent label, he would be a successful artist?
Joe was good for what he was, a contestant on the X factor.
OK I know you didn't ask me but here's my 2 cents worth. It's hard to know what would have worked when the basic ground work was so bad.
The direction was a shocker even for Joe fans who were trying to put 2 and 2 together to figure out what was going on. So there really should have been some preparation for it by the label by it was carried out like a top secret operation.
Joe should have got ast least the same promo as Olly got I know Joe got the xfactor performance- all of 3 mins after been hidden away for most of the year with a track and image that was totally unrecognisable. We even had Alex fans coming on the forum asking what was the story with Joe as her promo had started so much earlier than his.
Olly got 6-8 weeks pre release promo Joe 3-4.
Joe got no HMV signing.
Joe got no poster or billboard advertising.
Joe got very poor airplay barely making the top 50 airplay.
Global who own Capital, galaxy, heart etc refused to play his single and he only made the c list on radio 1.
Syco simply couldn't be ar*ed. As to why, well I guess we all have theories
The single and album were pretty well recieved by music critics but let's face it, it's all about sales.
Personally I'd rather see Syco drop him because at this stage they are doing more harm than good.