Doctor Who Series 7 Episode 12: The Crimson Horror 04/05/2013 BBC1 6:30pm

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  • Residents FanResidents Fan Posts: 9,204
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    Ethel_Fred wrote: »
    But what the point of preserving them when the whole point was to get rid of humanity?

    Gillyflower wanted her followers to survive the disaster.
  • ntscuserntscuser Posts: 8,219
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    nate1970 wrote: »
    I even chuckled at the awful Tom Tom joke. :D

    If you hadn't explained that 'joke' to me I would never have got it.:(

    I wish writers wouldn't assume everyone inhabits the same trendy world they do.:mad:
  • nebogipfelnebogipfel Posts: 8,375
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    ntscuser wrote: »
    If you hadn't explained that 'joke' to me I would never have got it.:(

    I wish writers wouldn't assume everyone inhabits the same trendy world they do.:mad:

    Tom Tom is a mass consumer product. You can buy them in Halfords. I'm assuming you don't consider Halfords a trendy London boutique for Groucho Club types. :D
  • ea91ea91 Posts: 2,363
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    I knew what a Tom Tom was, still didn't think the "joke" was funny. It was more of a gag, worthy of a very mediocre sketch show.
  • kat180kat180 Posts: 911
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    Talma wrote: »
    I'm not sure how common it is, everyone I know or work with in their 20s or under have been taught how to use computers at school and seem to know them as well as I knew typewriters at their age, ie it's just 'there'. Maybe some can't get the hang of it despite that (I sympathise but then I'm a lot older) but I would have thought 99.9% of school children over the last 10 years would have been taught it.

    This. I sure there are a few people of that generation who have trouble with computers. But even when I was at school 7/8 years ago everyone used one, had been taught to use one and had access to one. I mean, you couldn't even apply to college without a computer and the internet. Getting into the twenties and college years, everyone either had their own laptops or used the college computers. I barely remember dial up. Slightly older generations grew up without computers and have learnt to use them, but Clara's generation would have grown up with them. I don't find it very believable that she wouldn't know, for example, that you can have more than one person use the internet at a time. Even if she cannot figure out how to connect the laptop to the internet without help, she has been living in a society that has free wifi access in coffee shops.

    I know not everyone, everywhere, has easy access to computers, I'm really just coming at this from the character's point of view. Middle class, white, presumably had a typical education at a London school etc.

    Anyway. Its not really an important point but it did stand out when I watched the episode.
  • ntscuserntscuser Posts: 8,219
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    ea91 wrote: »
    I knew what a Tom Tom was, still didn't think the "joke" was funny. It was more of a gag, worthy of a very mediocre sketch show.

    I knew what it is as well, just didn't make the connection with "Thomas Thomas" because I don't think about sat-nav, mobile phones and other trendy stuff all day long as some people seem to.:(
  • ntscuserntscuser Posts: 8,219
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    kat180 wrote: »
    I don't find it very believable that she wouldn't know, for example, that you can have more than one person use the internet at a time.

    I assumed that was just sarcasm on the part of the younger girl?
  • nanscombenanscombe Posts: 16,588
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    ntscuser wrote: »
    I knew what it is as well, just didn't make the connection with "Thomas Thomas" because I don't think about sat-nav, mobile phones and other trendy stuff all day long as some people seem to.:(

    I'm sure there are plenty of "In jokes" that some people don't get in Doctor Who, they are targeted at a particular part of the audience. Rather like risqué references that young children wouldn't get but older children, and adults, would.

    I half saw this joke coming. Having used a Satnav I recognised the pattern of speech, "In X yards turn right... In Y yards you will have reached your destination". I was already thinking that the kid sounded like a Satnav, then he told Strax his name.

    It's the same with the little nods to past Doctors, who would know the significance of Metabilis 3 unless you were familiar with Jon Pertwee as The Doctor?
  • TalmaTalma Posts: 10,520
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    nanscombe wrote: »
    I'm sure there are plenty of "In jokes" that some people don't get in Doctor Who, they are targeted at a particular part of the audience. Rather like risqué references that young children wouldn't get but older children, and adults, would.

    I half saw this joke coming. Having used a Satnav I recognised the pattern of speech, "In X yards turn right... In Y yards you will have reached your destination". I was already thinking that the kid sounded like a Satnav, then he told Strax his name.

    It's the same with the little nods to past Doctors, who would know the significance of Metabilis 3 unless you were familiar with Jon Pertwee as The Doctor?

    I don't have a car so don't have a satnav but I recognised the speech pattern from adverts and TV and thought ? just before he gave his name. It took me a couple of seconds to make the connection but it was great as a throwaway line.
    In Bells didn't the Doctor mention Burger King? Same thing, a widely available and popular 'product' some people use and some don't but are likely to have noticed or heard of.

    edit: you mean the MeTEBelis crystal:)?
  • nebogipfelnebogipfel Posts: 8,375
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    it was the notion that satnav is trendy that made me chuckle. It's been round for quite a while now and I see them being used by all sorts as part of just everyday driving around. Not just Kate Moss and The Arctic Monkeys whipping them out on red carpets to show they are hip to the max.
  • piimapoikapiimapoika Posts: 284
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    ntscuser wrote: »
    I knew what it is as well, just didn't make the connection with "Thomas Thomas" .:(

    I didn't either. I thought it was another reference to "Carry on Screaming", where Charles Hawtrey played Daniel Dann.
  • nanscombenanscombe Posts: 16,588
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    Talma wrote: »
    ... edit: you mean the MeTEBelis crystal:)?

    Indeed.

    piimapoika wrote: »
    I didn't either. I thought it was another reference to "Carry on Screaming", where Charles Hawtrey played Daniel Dann.

    Oh, you mean Dan Dann, the lavatory man. :D

    In which case the Doctor's lumbering walk could also have been the same as King Rubbatiti (the mummy).
  • nebogipfelnebogipfel Posts: 8,375
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    I had no idea what Matt Smith was going on about. Never heard of MeTEBelis. It was only when I heard the sound of angry villagers gathering on the green to vent their fury I realised the tragedy of the situation. I'm joining Ian Levine in a mass march to Cardiff later this month to demand they employ a continuity specialist to vet the episodes before broadcast. Ian says he knows the perfect man for the job.
  • Granny McSmithGranny McSmith Posts: 19,622
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    Although I haven't got a car and take zero notice of technology I am aware of satnavs, but I didn't get the tom tom joke until it was pointed out on here. I still think it was a bad joke because it was shoehorned in - it wasn't anything to do with the story.

    Not getting it at the time didn't spoil my enjoyment of the episode, though. As nanscombe said, some jokes will whizz past some people. I thought the sonic thingy when Jenny stripped down to her leathers was funny. Some may not have noticed.
  • nebogipfelnebogipfel Posts: 8,375
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    Although I haven't got a car and take zero notice of technology I am aware of satnavs, but I didn't get the tom tom joke until it was pointed out on here. I still think it was a bad joke because it was shoehorned in - it wasn't anything to do with the story.

    Not getting it at the time didn't spoil my enjoyment of the episode, though. As nanscombe said, some jokes will whizz past some people. I thought the sonic thingy when Jenny stripped down to her leathers was funny. Some may not have noticed.

    Shoehorning (ooerr sounds rude!) jokes in was probably another tribute to Carry On. :). Sonic thingy was better and also very Carry On
  • ThrombinThrombin Posts: 9,416
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    kat180 wrote: »
    Of course not knowing how a computer works isn't a lack of intelligence, however, Clara is what, 24/26? That's my age group. She's clearly white middle class, had a decent education etc. She would have used computers at school.

    Well, it's been a while since I went to school (in fact the only computer we had then was a single teletype terminal connected to the Open University's mainframe that we all shared). However, I wouldn't have thought that the students spend a lot of time configuring their computers for Wi-Fi access. I would have expected that to have been set up for them already.

    You only need to configure Wi-Fi if you are setting up your internet access for the first time and, even then, you only need to do so if you are using it wirelessly and not connecting via the Ethernet cable. It's not that unreasonable to assume that it's the first time Clara has had to do that.

    I'm not going to address all of the points in your post again as we're a little off topic for this thread anyway.

    I will point out, however, that the thrust of my argument has nothing to do with whether Clara is a genius (even though you seem to be admitting that that's what the writers are trying to convey)
    It's boring to be told this girl's so intelligent

    Nor is it relevant whether or not she was the sole reason for the resolution of the episode.

    You asserted that she did nothing to contribute to the episodes, that she just stood around in the background and looked pretty. That was what I was arguing. I believe I have demonstrated this to be patently untrue and you even seem to have acknowledged that at least once:
    Yes, she found the Shard, so you can argue she played an important part in the episode

    None of your other comments go anywhere to countering my assertion that she played an important part in most, if not all of the episodes. Whether she showed genius, whether other people contributed, whether the mission could have succeeded without her. It's all irrelevant. Point is, you cannot deny that she did all of the things I listed which means she played an important role. She was not just background scenery.

    If you find her personality colourless and boring then, fair enough. You are apparently, not alone. Personally I find her the complete opposite but everyone's different.
  • Alleycat666Alleycat666 Posts: 8,730
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    I loved this episode. Particular favourite bits:

    A return to the Tardis not quite landing where's it's supposed to and the reference to getting a Gobby Australian back to Heathrow.

    Strax - I really like him, although he's a million miles away from 'proper classic who' Sontarens, he works in the context he's being written for - and I find him hilarious.

    Dame Diana Rigg - hamming it up for all she's worth.

    And Cybermen to come next week.

    Overall this run has been a bit up and down (IMO), but hopefully it's on a roll now building momentum to the finale.
  • RorschachRorschach Posts: 10,818
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    Gillyflower wanted her followers to survive the disaster.
    She even referred to them as her "Adams and Eves" (unless I imagined that bit).

    It's the same plan Hugo Drax had in Moonraker. Put aside an exceptional chosen few, wipe out humanity with a "natural" poison and then repopuate using your breeding stock.

    Unfortunately she couldn't quite manage a space station so went for giant bell jars instead.
  • ThrombinThrombin Posts: 9,416
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    Rorschach wrote: »
    She even referred to them as her "Adams and Eves" (unless I imagined that bit).

    It's the same plan Hugo Drax had in Moonraker. Put aside an exceptional chosen few, wipe out humanity with a "natural" poison and then repopuate using your breeding stock.

    Unfortunately she couldn't quite manage a space station so went for giant bell jars instead.

    There was also a similar idea in Fringe, as I recall.
  • AdelaideGirlAdelaideGirl Posts: 3,498
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    Invasion of the Dinosaurs was a similar plot too.
  • nebogipfelnebogipfel Posts: 8,375
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    and in the bible too.
  • CorwinCorwin Posts: 16,588
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    Invasion of the Dinosaurs was a similar plot too.

    Yeah I was going to mention Invasion of the Dinosaurs as being somewhat similar.
  • StrakerStraker Posts: 79,567
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    Brilliant. Best ep of this run by a country mile. If they all had this kind of brio and panache nobody could complain. How did Gatiss get it so very right here and so wrong with The Ice Warriors?

    Strax should get his own series.
  • MulettMulett Posts: 9,055
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    Although I enjoyed the episode, I think Clara has quickly fallen into the same trap as Amy and become all story-line and no character.

    When Rose, Martha and Donna joined the TARDIS I had a real sense of who they were, what their lives had been like and why they wanted to leave it all behind.

    I just didn't get that sense of Amy being a real person and I'm now in the same boat with Clara. Moffat spends too much time building a story arc/mystery around his companions, and not enough time making them seem real.

    The fact the Doctor keeps dropping her off after every adventure doesn't exactly help either.

    A shame, because she seemed to have great promise.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 197
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    I have to say - I so thoroughly enjoyed the first 15 minutes that it was almost a disappointment when the Doctor showed up. More of the Victorian Scooby gang, please!
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