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Umbrella Plots and the Show Structure
Xmas_Trenzalore
Posts: 550 Forum Member
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I was just wondering what everyone thought to the over-arching stories of the new series, and how they should work in the series.
RTD Era
The Moffat Era in Parts
Moffat in general
Anyway, short version, or TLDR:
I think the show should strive more to emulate Series 4. Have elements just come in and out of play as the show goes, just not necessarily with it all culminating in the finale.
Why can't we just have Davros show up some episode? Maybe it was hinted at a couple of episodes back. Doesn't have to be the big finale Why can't companions leave and join the show on whims before, during and after the series?
Big build ups to finales can be effective, but if there's a big mystery and a twist, make it re-contextualize the previous stories rather than diminishing them as episodic adventures and just making them feel boring.
Not everything has to be predestined and not everything has to be absolutely connected. Things can just happen, resurface, and interact naturally.
The show can have the best of both worlds, swapping between episodic story telling and arcing stories whenever it feels like it.
Thoughts?
RTD Era
Bad Wolf: While it did have the significance in later stories as a way to clue the Doctor into Rose's presence, it wasn't really an interconnecting story thread at all.
It's only real importance in series one was to give Rose a bit of inspiration towards the end.
Torchwood was a bit better. It was established in the second episode, and the name dropping throughout the series did serve to indicate that it was a well connected organisation and it did lead into the spin-off. Still mostly just teasing though.
Saxon again improved the formula, by having a few of the stories link into the plot, like the Lazarus Experiment, and the cut-aways with Martha's family leading up to the big finale. The hints were much less superficial.
Series 4 did it best in my opinion. The missing planets was a lot more nunanced running theme. The rest of the hints were very varied. Rose's brief appearance, the Bees missing, The Ood's message and, Donna's grandad. And all the other dangling threads like Torchwood, Sarah Jane and Martha Jones coming into play.
It's only real importance in series one was to give Rose a bit of inspiration towards the end.
Torchwood was a bit better. It was established in the second episode, and the name dropping throughout the series did serve to indicate that it was a well connected organisation and it did lead into the spin-off. Still mostly just teasing though.
Saxon again improved the formula, by having a few of the stories link into the plot, like the Lazarus Experiment, and the cut-aways with Martha's family leading up to the big finale. The hints were much less superficial.
Series 4 did it best in my opinion. The missing planets was a lot more nunanced running theme. The rest of the hints were very varied. Rose's brief appearance, the Bees missing, The Ood's message and, Donna's grandad. And all the other dangling threads like Torchwood, Sarah Jane and Martha Jones coming into play.
The Moffat Era in Parts
The Cracks in Time: These cracks actually played a bigger role in the stories, like the Hungry Earth and Time of the Angels. I'm not sure how feel about this. In theory it should make the thread more interesting. But by the end, we had no clear reason for the TARDIS exploding, leaving it a bit unsatisfying.
Series 6. The River Song, Silence will Fall maybe the Doctor Dies story arc. It was OK. River being Amy's daughter, the Silence wanting to stop the Doctor for vague reasons, and the Doctor dies.
River's story was interesting, but they hardly do anything with it. Not with the fallout of her loss, not with her wife status with the Doctor, and her killing him was always going to be an anti-climax, since he definitely wasn't going to die. The way he got out of it wasn't even that creative. To be fair, the Mels regeneration was a pretty good twist.
The Silence arc sort of works because it's vague enough that it seems to be about the Doctor's notoriety rather than Trenzalore.
Amy's choice: This was originally set up as Amy's choice between he fantasy life with the Doctor, and he domestic life with Rory. Series 5 implies she can have both. Series 6 implies she needs to grow up; a choice the Doctor and a Minotaur make for her. Series 7 suggests they don't need to again, until the very end, where a series of events forces her to. To be fair, the final choice was well executed, but up til then it was kind of schizo.
The Name of the Doctor: What is the Doctor's name and what does it mean? Who is the Doctor? These are interesting questions. But they're a little over-played. Nearly every season has dealt with this issue and I'm getting a bit burnt out.
My god this is taking forever.
The Impossible Girl: Boring.
Gallifrey returning and the War Doctor: I have mixed feelings about undoing the Time War and inserting a new incarnation. John Hurt was cool, although I feel the Eighth Doctor would have worked fine too. Bringing back the Time Lords is fine, but their corruption and the severity of the war was too underplayed.
Series 6. The River Song, Silence will Fall maybe the Doctor Dies story arc. It was OK. River being Amy's daughter, the Silence wanting to stop the Doctor for vague reasons, and the Doctor dies.
River's story was interesting, but they hardly do anything with it. Not with the fallout of her loss, not with her wife status with the Doctor, and her killing him was always going to be an anti-climax, since he definitely wasn't going to die. The way he got out of it wasn't even that creative. To be fair, the Mels regeneration was a pretty good twist.
The Silence arc sort of works because it's vague enough that it seems to be about the Doctor's notoriety rather than Trenzalore.
Amy's choice: This was originally set up as Amy's choice between he fantasy life with the Doctor, and he domestic life with Rory. Series 5 implies she can have both. Series 6 implies she needs to grow up; a choice the Doctor and a Minotaur make for her. Series 7 suggests they don't need to again, until the very end, where a series of events forces her to. To be fair, the final choice was well executed, but up til then it was kind of schizo.
The Name of the Doctor: What is the Doctor's name and what does it mean? Who is the Doctor? These are interesting questions. But they're a little over-played. Nearly every season has dealt with this issue and I'm getting a bit burnt out.
My god this is taking forever.
The Impossible Girl: Boring.
Gallifrey returning and the War Doctor: I have mixed feelings about undoing the Time War and inserting a new incarnation. John Hurt was cool, although I feel the Eighth Doctor would have worked fine too. Bringing back the Time Lords is fine, but their corruption and the severity of the war was too underplayed.
Moffat in general
Time of the Doctor: Every plot thread from previous series was brought together, either being explained, concluded or re-contextualized to fit the story. As an episode it was good. Tightly written and a good swan song for Matt Smith.
But here's where the big problem with all these threads comes. Cause and Effect is completely reversed, thus taking actions and consequences we can understand and connect with, and replacing them with superficial mystery.
On it's own, that's not a bad thing. It's an interesting and unique way to tell stories using time travel. But there are other factors.
We don't know: once the mysteries are solved, they don't mean anything, and go completely unexplored. This isn't necessarily a bad thing either. Blank space can be more effective than explanations. We don't know what sort of secret relationship the Doctor has with River, just like we don't know a lot about the Doctor's past. Just hints.
Re-contextualization: We thought the Silence wanted to kill the Doctor for his warrior reputation, but it was actually about Tranzalore. We thought the question Doctor Who was about his grave, but it was actually about the Time Lords.
The Doctor Lie/Time Changes/He can be wrong: Again, not a bad thing. It explains away continuity issues, and lets the writers go back on small details and off-hand lines to suit the story. Potentially cheap, but handy for a 50 year old program.
Any of these on there own wouldn't be a big deal, but mix them all together with a 4 into a 4 year long story arc, and it becomes somewhat emotionally constipating. The episode did well to wrap everything up, and it served to create an epic atmosphere, but I can't help but feel exhausted by the the story as a whole.
But here's where the big problem with all these threads comes. Cause and Effect is completely reversed, thus taking actions and consequences we can understand and connect with, and replacing them with superficial mystery.
On it's own, that's not a bad thing. It's an interesting and unique way to tell stories using time travel. But there are other factors.
We don't know: once the mysteries are solved, they don't mean anything, and go completely unexplored. This isn't necessarily a bad thing either. Blank space can be more effective than explanations. We don't know what sort of secret relationship the Doctor has with River, just like we don't know a lot about the Doctor's past. Just hints.
Re-contextualization: We thought the Silence wanted to kill the Doctor for his warrior reputation, but it was actually about Tranzalore. We thought the question Doctor Who was about his grave, but it was actually about the Time Lords.
The Doctor Lie/Time Changes/He can be wrong: Again, not a bad thing. It explains away continuity issues, and lets the writers go back on small details and off-hand lines to suit the story. Potentially cheap, but handy for a 50 year old program.
Any of these on there own wouldn't be a big deal, but mix them all together with a 4 into a 4 year long story arc, and it becomes somewhat emotionally constipating. The episode did well to wrap everything up, and it served to create an epic atmosphere, but I can't help but feel exhausted by the the story as a whole.
Anyway, short version, or TLDR:
I think the show should strive more to emulate Series 4. Have elements just come in and out of play as the show goes, just not necessarily with it all culminating in the finale.
Why can't we just have Davros show up some episode? Maybe it was hinted at a couple of episodes back. Doesn't have to be the big finale Why can't companions leave and join the show on whims before, during and after the series?
Big build ups to finales can be effective, but if there's a big mystery and a twist, make it re-contextualize the previous stories rather than diminishing them as episodic adventures and just making them feel boring.
Not everything has to be predestined and not everything has to be absolutely connected. Things can just happen, resurface, and interact naturally.
The show can have the best of both worlds, swapping between episodic story telling and arcing stories whenever it feels like it.
Thoughts?
0
Comments
If those spoiler-tags don't actually contain spoilers, it's a bad move to use them.
I wouldn't really miss the arcs if they were gone. But it's nice to have a big finale at the end of a series, as long as it's not contrived of course.
I don't like the pre-determined method of telling a story anyway. If everything is pre-determined from the start, then where is the danger, and quite simple what's the point? I think with time-travel there has to be some causality and butterfly effects - otherwise no matter what you do it'll turn out the same. But I am not sure if that's what you meant by the pre-destined.
As for one off episode, and over-arching story plots through the episodes, I'd say it depends on the over-arching story plot and how much space it needs to develop. There are no hard or fast rules. Some plots need more details, and time to set up due to their complexity.
Personally, I think lately the series is trying to do some very ambitious story arcs for its format, which isn't a bad goal but can unbalance the series as it demands a lot on the writing front. There is a lot to cram in. Characters, Exposition, Plot, Action, Arcing Plot, Visuals, Universe.... and so much more in 45 minutes - with around 8- 12 episodes.
If you compare it to say, an American drama that does this in-depth interconnected plots, they usually do it over a course of 20ish episodes. It gives them more opportunity to have sub-plots that interweave with the arc plot. I think that's why some of the series have felt a little forced in places, the themes became very pointed and repetitive(as it an easy way to prime the watcher attention/thoughts), and everything has to connect, as they are trying to squeeze the depth of 20 episode long series into a series half that size. And with such a small space and medium, everything has to be flawless to a degree - as holes, and weakness are more visible - if that makes sense. I know this sounds critical, but on the whole the Doctor Who a great job (I think anyway) especially when you consider this.
Maybe it's why the finale's can come across as a bit flat to some people too. If the drive was slow, less pointed, the pay off might not seem so dismal. Because the series almost over emphasis the arc, and drive it along at a fast pace - some people are left wanting/thinking there should have been more, it should have been bigger. But I'm not sure if I wholly buy that myself - am more thinking out loud.
That being said, I haven't sat down and pulled the older episodes apart on this issue, or even thought about this issue really and its been a while since I've watched the older series. So I could be talking complete and utter rubbish. So this is a very badly researched post, and just conjecture upon the spot really.
The whole cracks/Pandorica/Teselecta/Silence arc fascinated me due to the multi-layered aspect of it, I thought the Silence were genuinely interesting and I personally enjoyed the finales as well as the answers given in Time of the Doctor.
I just think Moffat's arcs have been far more ambitious and I think he's found the perfect medium with the Heaven/Missy arc as it's a lot less in your face than his previous arcs.
I can see why people prefer RTD's more subtle arcs though and I think Bad Wolf was his most successful as it gradually built up to a satisfying conclusion.
The only part of an arc I can remember thinking was disappointing was the conclusion to the Saxon arc - I don't like Last of the Time Lords, sorry!
Nice to see something good written about the silence arc for a change. Even if I do happen to disagree ;-).
I actually found the Saxon arc quite exciting. It was very ambiguous while still being noticeable.
I think I've contradicted myself quite a lot. It's easier to say what I don't want rather than what I do. Moffat's arcs I've found to be a bit over egged and shoved down our throats. I'd have to say I think RTD did them better.
Happens every time. I'm all for conflicting opinions but people roll out the same shit every series.
As well as the standalone series contained arcs of the RTD era (however slight) there was also the bigger ‘Last Of The Timelords’ arc that was woven throughout series 1 to the specials. I tend to look at this as the main arc. Not only did it give the Doctor a core character arc, played out in many stunning scenes in unrelated episodes, it also mythologised the Timelords for a new generation.
Considering it could have been tempting to throw everything in to series one (the show was far from a guaranteed hit) I think RTD played a blinder in the pacing of the last of the time lords arc over 4 series and the specials. For instance, it was not until The Runaway Bride we heard the word Gallifrey.
The characters, main and secondary, were allowed to breath because the arcs were happening around them and not at their expense.
As for Steven Moffats arcs...well..err. That as a showrunner he is still struggling to put together a consistent character for Clara (in her second series now) says it all at how confining Moffats arcs have been much to the detriment of character. Something the RTD era, and previous era to an extent had no problem with.
The cynic in me would say that after 3 series the current showrunner has failed to build his own lasting mythology to sit along previous eras, old and new, hence the tinkering with the established past. Changing the core emotional heartbeat of the RTD era with the 50th still irks, (I understand why it was done, it just irks) Clara being interwoven in the the history of the show, saving all of the previous Doctors, being the one that suggest nicking the TARDIS as well as influencing him as a child kind off speaks volumes at the showrunners inability to create his own legacy. Not the end of the world mind, just a personal view on how a TV show is written.
Though I am surprised that in 'An Adventure in Time' Sydney Newman wasn't written out and Steven Moffat put in his place.
Cynical joking aside, I am looking forward to see how the search for Gallifrey pans out. I just hope it isn't rushed and is able to span multiple series, even into the next showrunner.
So in terms of arcs and structure, especially the multi series spanning Last Of The Timelords arc, the RTD era wipes the floor imo. Especially when it comes to them expanding characters, particularly Ecclestons/Tennats Doctors character arcs. From 9's single tear in End of The World to 10 being unsure who exactly to point the gun at in End Of Time part 2.
Hey Ho and all that.
I think Series 5's arc was the best it got:
-It started with some interesting mysteries put forward: What was the Pandorica? What is the Silence?
-Then most of episode 2 was stand-alone right up until the end. I don't know about anyone else, but I love the moment when the camera zooms into the crack on the Space ship. My feelings were "Wait? What? The crack is back? How is the crack there?!"
-Episode 3 had another little nod to the crack, but was otherwise standalone
-Episode 4 had no reference to the arc, but was followed by an episode where the crack featured heavily. It was a main plot device, but it only deepened the mystery: "why are the cracks happening?", "what happens on 26th June 2010?"
-Episode 6 had only a few brief references to the cracks and the silence whilst episode 7 was standalone.
-Episode 8 and most of episode 9 were also standalone right up until the end when the arc shifted forwards dramatically. In the space of a few minutes so much happens: The crack shows up once again, Rory dies and is erased and just to top things all off: The Doctor pulls a chunk of the TARDIS out of the crack; things have just got serious as we realise what causes the cracks.
-Episodes 10 and 11 were also mostly standalone and served as a bit of "calm before the storm"
-Finally the mysteries about the Pandorica and the cracks were resolved very well in the last two episodes. With the exception of the mystery of the Silence (which became a bit of a mess in later series) everything was wrapped up very well.
What's an umbrella plot?
Series 1: Bad Wolf
I quite liked the balance of this arc and probably still think it was the most satisfying of the lot. It's relevance in the series was paramount to the series finale, and so a lot more rewarding for the regular viewer. But it wasn't so imposing that it interfered with other episodes, and the very nature of the Bad Wolf references throughout the series meant they could easily be summed up in a quick flashback sequence, thus not spoiling it for the casual viewer either. It was pivotal to Rose's character development and delivered perhaps what is one of the only satisfying examples of deux ex machina. I remember it being in the newspapers when everyone was speculating the identity of 'Bad Wolf', and as a testament to its success as an arc it had a role to play in Series 4 later on and even had a notable mention in the shows 50th Anniversary. I guess that the whole arc is now intrinsically tied up with Rose, though it was also perhaps the biggest contribution to the ongoing DW canon to have come from the Eccleston era.
Series 2: Torchwood
Making no secret of itself as a bit of a story arc, this one was so effective for being so bold and in the open - the complete opposite of what Series 1 had delivered. It was a brilliant tease and prologue for the eventual spin-off, but again managed to remain effectively in the shadow of the Doctor's exploits so as to not really interfere with the goings on of each episode.
Series 3: Vote Saxon
For the first time, the show took on board a story arc that seemed to interfere with the goings on of the series ahead of the finale that wrapped it all up (by which I mean the events of mid-series/filler episodes The Lazarus Experiment and 42 ended up being crucial). Evidently the stakes were getting higher, and even the finale expanded to three episodes essentially. It was a bit less innovative than the two arcs before it, but interesting and mysterious enough again without drawing too much attention to itself. It gained extra credit for geniusly entwining itself with the until-then unrelated mini-arc that had come from the Face of Boe in the New Earth Trilogy. It all came together like a massive puzzle, and pulled the rug from beneath our feet for a brilliant revelation in Utopia.
Series 4: The Medusa Cascade
What was so effective about this arc was that it was played out via a whole host of seemingly unrelated elements that came together to form a larger whole - kind of what Series 3 did but on a far larger scale. There was the missing planets, the bees disappearing, the appearances from Rose, and even a very early reference to the arc of the Tennant specials that were to follow. While there was so much variety the episodes weren't caught up on one idea for too long, so again it managed to not hugely interfere with the episodes generally, and acted as individual teases to keep you watching - which seemed to keep even the most general viewers hooked that year. Of course, such an arc was only possible from a build-up that came from the three previous series - it couldn't have worked without them as well. It was essentially fan pay-off, with references from across the Tennant era all coming together in a usually neat package. It just came at the loss of arc subtlety, in the attempt to outdo everything that had come before.
Tennant Specials - Song Is Ending/He Will Knock Four Times
Traceable all the way back to Planet of the Ood, the song element was fairly straightforward whilst the knocking references kept people guessing for a very long time and kept people interested once again - the prophecy even got itself referenced in the opening of an episode of The Simpsons at one point! The difference was that the significantly lower number of episodes meant that this arc didn't really have time to build to anything and wasn't even referenced in one of the five episodes it concerned. It didn't have to try and fit in with a series, because the episodes it featured in were all building directly up to it anyway.
Series 5 - Cracks in the Wall
The now-infamous crack in the wall and the introduction of the entity of the Silence. The fifth series took a new approach to the arc, and brought it centre of attention across the whole series. This succeeded in upping the stakes further than before, and was an interesting idea from the off (especially when you consider that the crack in Amy's bedroom wall was originally considered to be a one-off thing by viewers...silly us). However it did come at the cost of some episode quality and rewatchability along the way. Both RTD and Moffat have made the valid point of Doctor Who being so timeless because you can buy the DVD's and rewatch it over and over, unlike so much of the reality dominated TV of today. The show is usually very accessible and previously you were able to dip in and out at leisure. The problem here was that the arc was so predominant that you feel less compelled to dip into episodes like Flesh and Stone, which seem to completely abandon the story they were originally telling to go off on a tangent that demands awareness of a wider story arc from previous episodes. It also undermines the threat at hand - in the case of Flesh and Stone, completely trivialising the supposedly sinister Weeping Angels and crushing an element of their scare-cred that they've not since worked back. The arc went on to be a mixed blessing with the cracks in the wall being more-or-less resolved in an interesting manner come the end of the fifth series, but with hanging plot threads that would prove divisive - either compelling you to keep watching, or deterring you from ever dipping into the show. It was basically just a whole lot demanding of the viewer, and that could go either way with people. As an innovative idea I'm glad the show pushed with new boundaries, but I'd have perhaps at least kept Series 5 self-contained given the reduced level of self-contained stories across the series.
Series 6 - The Silence
Carrying on the plot threads from Series 5 and developing the unresolved element of The Silence a whole lot further this was an arc that was going to prove divisive from the off. The biggest problem was that if you weren't sold on or interested in what the fifth series had to offer, the sixth offered little in the way of consolation. In fact the arc was even more consuming in this series than before, making Doctor Who feel almost serialised in places. It didn't feel so much like an arc than it did an ongoing story, with just some other events unfolding as a backdrop. My biggest issue regarding the arc was the poor pacing, with a 90-part beginning, 90-part middle and then a bit of a lame 45 minute conclusion that was so busy cramming in its own ideas that it actually forgot to conclude very little at all. The teases up to River's mid-series reveal weren't interesting, trivialised an interesting character and the reveal itself was mind-numbingly obvious. This was echoed and even bested by the end-of-series Lake Silencio reveal of the Tesselecta which personally didn't go down very well. Worse still there was no sense of resolution and so very little reward or satisfaction. The limp resolution we got in Series 6 meant I was hardly compelled to carry on the unresolved story into Series 7. But perhaps my biggest complaint of all regarding this arc was the comments made at the end of Day of the Moon where the Doctor gives Amy and Rory the option of investigating the little girl or having, as he puts it 'some adventures'. For the first time the arc and the standalone stories were being designated as very seperate entities, with the latter being essentially determined as either inferior or inconsequential. Whilst Series 5 had undermined the Weeping Angels by surrendering their story to the story arc, Series 6 went one up on that and undermined the entire series that wasn't the arc. It became too self-referential, self-important and ultimately too big for its boots. The higher the rise, the harder the fall. As River put it "The Doctor will rise higher than ever before, and then fall so much further". To be honest, that was a perfect way to sum up the Series 6 arc, and Series 6 generally.
Series 7 - The Impossible Girl
I feel this was a step in the right direction, let down mostly by a split in the series that wasn't remotely beneficial, broke up the pacing and what could otherwise have been a very intriguing story arc in its own right. In fact the break led to far too many red herrings for ideas that would have been brilliant - the blinking lights/flickering lightbulbs in the first few episodes all seemed to indicate the series was heading somewhere, but then it never did. The Great Intelligence shows up in the middle of the series for two otherwise unrelated episodes and then disappears again until its needed, and the name Trenzalore also only crops up when its needed as well - The Doctor seems to have a sudden awareness of what it is when he needs to come the series finale, but its mentions in Series 6 garner no such familiarity from him. The impossible girl element herself was the only constant from across the whole series and it worked brilliantly as an idea - the downside being that it stunted Clara as a character for a long time leaving Jenna Coleman with the toughest of jobs and leaving Series 8 to pick up the pieces.
It was great to have a face to put to villainy again, after the shady goings on from the Silence for the previous two series. The Great Intelligence turned out to be a bit less impressive than it might have been in the series finale but then I feel that that is in part down to the lack of two-parters causing pacing nightmares. Big villains simply aren't given a chance to make a big entrance. What was a step in the right direction though was the far better balance of resolutions and hanging plot threads - Series 5 had been unsatisfactory in that regard because it resolved so little, left the show with an unclear direction and consumed so much of the series. Series 7 on the other hand was a little more like Series 4 in that it was comprised of enough different elements to not interefere so much and it left the show in a very clear direction with enough resolution and unresolved ideas to keep me engaged.
The Smith Specials - Trenzalore
The 50th Anniversary was essentially a story of its own, with the only overriding element of the 'of the Doctor' trilogy being Trenzalore. It's where we've been in The Name of the Doctor, where we're going in The Day of the Doctor, and where we are in The Time of the Doctor. It was admittedly quite rewarding to see the references to Trenzalore pay off a lot more than what they had in the Series 7 finale, and felt much more satisfying than anything Moffat had delivered before. Even the half-baked and convoluted info-dump explanations for The Silence, the Kovarian Chapter (a nickname for Series 6 really) and the resurgence of the Crack in the Wall ended up feeling satisfactory because at least there were answers on offer. It was then up to you whether you liked those answers. I personally had no issue with them, and the fact it was all tied up (not so neatly) by the end was pay off enough for me.
What sat less well was the plot from the 50th Anniversary, which was definitely the most detached of these episodes... having a sort-of arc of its own with the War Doctor. Aside from messing up the numbering of the Doctors and making precious little sense, its biggest crime as a story was completely undoing the events that had been the emotional crux of NuWho. Now every time I look back at Eccleston and Tennant lamenting their actions from the Time War, I have a little laughing Moffat in my head giggling about how I shouldn't worry because 'LOL, I'm going to undo all of this with the power of timey wimey, because everybody lives and ALL THIRTEEN!". Don't get me wrong it was a spectacle to behold on screen, as is most of Moffat's Who. But I think in terms of arcs, it's not any more about going one up on the stories that came before like it was with RTD, it's about undermining what came before to make what's here and now look better. Series 5 undermined the threat of the Weeping Angels, Series 6 undermined any story that wasn't related to the series arc, and then the 50th Anniversary undermined the entire show by undoing the biggest development to the Doctor's character in the revival. Perhaps more of an issue for us nu-Who-only viewers, I don't know, but I came to the show with Eccleston playing a war-damaged man who sought some comfort in the wonder of the universe and the people who came into his life. By the end of Smith was a man free of consequences, spouting episodic catchphrases ready to put on t-shirts and other merchandising, and wearing ridiculous clothes. Out of four arcs, only one from Moffat has remotely satisifed and even then it all built up to the most crushingly disappointed feeling I've ever had for the show.
Series 8 - The Promised Land
A bit unfair to comment either way before a resolution, but how refreshing it is to have something new to talk about in the show and someone new to try and figure in Missy. Currently I feel that the references are all a bit chucked in sparingly (appearances from Missy in episodes 1 and 2, and then three episodes without is a bit uneven) but then as I said...reserving judgement. Stepping into new territory has me interested after so much rewriting of established canon in the previous year, and is perhaps the only thing that has kept me going. Either way though, to Moffat's credit this arc has so far not dominated the series at all and we're nearly half way through it. It feels much more intimate and interesting because of that, and allows all the other episodes to have identities of their own without being undermined.
I would assume an alternate way of describing a story arc. One that covers the whole series
Or - a way of showing that no-one lives their life in episodes and what you do today has consequences at a later date.
Probably the best summing up of all the story arcs I've read, mostly sum up my thoughts too.
As for the main subject, RTD story arcs worked well in every series, built to a grand always two part finale, weren't too intrusive to individual stories, and most importantly by the end of the series you got the answers the arc made you wonder about and it was all well explained.
In contrast, I'd say almost the opposite about Moffats arc's so far. The closest he came to a good solid arc was inn series 5 but ruined it by leaving one of the most important points of the plot - the explanation of the exploding TARDIS unanswered for years. . Every series we were left with questions which kept building and building up. Things that were finally explained were done so briefly and without ceremony. The writing almost seemed like Moffat was a kid in a sweet shop when posing questions and teasing things, but almost having a sulk when he actually had to give answers to the questions he'd strung us along with. That seemed to be self evident in more than ever in time of the doctor when years of loose ends to major stories were brushed away with a sentence or two each.
Series 8 has been going well so far and Moffat seems to have finally taken note that it's best not to tie himself in knots over complicating things, so I hope this is reflected in the arc resolution and we get a good memorable self contained arc like series 1-4 once more.
Subtle hints like 'Bad Wolf' were fine - and was fairly subtle with David Tennant....but by the time Matt arrived - it went bonkers!!
Call me old-fashioned, but I preferred the old days! The Doctor lands the Tardis - sorts out problems on alien planet - Doctor leaves in Tardis! (with normal companions too!)
Simple and effective!!
I agree. I hate when they try and make things interesting. Moffat, when will you learn we just want the same thing over and over? Please. stop this crap of trying to make us THINK. It's ruining Doctor Who. Please leave.
If I entered a thread with that much text I might not have bothered with it.
So I just put a summary of my thoughts at the bottom.
BAD WOLF DIDN'T INTRUDE
That's probably because it was written into the scripts retroactively. Plus it was just a phrase in the background, and it's only significance was that it was significant. Dunno if that would work for everything though.
That's pretty much it. Obviously if you time travel, there are going to be some events that are out of order, and some things you see coming, but sometimes I think it happens too much. Especially when they do a loop where the events of the story are caused by the beginning. A good example would be with Queen Elizabeth, where she hates the Doctor before he jilts her.
That's very true. But two things regarding the American comparison.
1. American shows tend to produce shows as they go, and a lot of the time they haven't got things figured out so they just experiment until they land with something that they can build on.
British shows are usually planned from the start, so really that should give them a stronger opportunity to pace the structure more efficiently.
More episodes can be useful, especially just to get to know the characters. I remember wishing The Legend of Korra had more episodes like The Last Airbender, just so there was more story fat to flesh out the supporting cast.
But Series 1 of Doctor Who did have a very strong structure supporting the episodic adventures. Rose to introduce the show, The End of the World drove home what an enigma the Doctor was while also mentioning the time war. Aliens in London established how dangerous it was to travel with the Doctor and how that could negatively effect Rose's family. Then the Long Game set up the setting for the finale, Boom Town continued from Aliens in London while also setting up Bad Wolf, and then finally we get to the finale.
And that's not to mention the introduction of the Dalek, Captain Jack, Rose's Dad, and that brief affair with Adam. Aside from the fact that Bad Wolf didn't encroach on the stories as stand alone episodes, there's also a strong character arc, and plot elements like the Slitheen that are all integrated well into the story without it seeming like the universe was bending to the will of the plot.
2. I really liked LOST y'know. All that mystery really pulled me in. But in the end it was all just an illusion. The mystery was just there to make me want to watch it again next week. Shallow and superficial writing techniques. If a mystery is going to be the dramatic pull of your story, it needs to be satisfying and well thought out, not just for mystery's sake. The same goes for with-holding information to create artificial mystery.
That's sort of what the Crack in Time/Silence/Trenzalore felt like. River Song was better because we had all the clues there to make the connection. It would have been so much better to understand what was going on so we cared more about what was happening.
Life on Mars/Ashes to Ashes did show long mystery best. By the end of Life on Mars, it didn't matter what the truth was because you just wanted Sam back with Gen and the gang. And the end of Ashes to Ashes, no joke, was almost exactly the same ending to LOST, but infinitely more satisfying.
It's cool man. Just dancing around a problem in your head is a fine way to churn ideas and figure stuff out.
He did pull a lot of stuff into the finale, but it all played an important part in the story and creating a big epic finale atmosphere, and every dangling plot was brought to a neat fold. The main crux of the story, being Davros's plan to bare the Doctor's soul had been foreshadowed in The Sontaran Stratagem too. I just think it was the most successful.
Although, like Abomination said, it was built on the shoulders of previous series. But that's good. The show should do that if it's going to have recurring story threads.
I think that is the main problem. He said as much himself in interviews, that he thinks a writers room would work against Doctor Who, and a lot of his script briefs are "Robots and Robin Hood" or "Dinosaurs on a Space Ship". I'd speculate that Russell had a much bigger hand in planing out the arc for the series.
In a way I can see the benefits of Steven's methods, since unrestricted freedom with certain restrains can breed great creativity, which is why some of his episodes are great and others are just bad, but it has a led to some poor planning and unsatisfying arcs.
Given that Steven has more writing credits the season, it might suggest that he's taking a more active role in the mini arcs of this series to converge into a more well structured finale.
I do agree that it was well integrated up to the end, but it just fell apart at the end for me, as it all hinged on someone blowing up the TARDIS, and we didn't know who, how or why. At the time I thought it was a interesting choice, but it didn't feel right at all. It felt like at the end they said it all happened "Just because", and the fact that it was so well threaded throughout the series worked against it. If it had just been the last episode I would have been far more intrigued with a mystery assault on the TARDIS, instead of feeling let down that so much of what happened had no explanation.
Yeah, pretty much. I actually got the term while reading the wiki page for the Doctor Who wiki, where it described the Key of Time arc. Actually that's a point. How were Classic Who arcs received?
I haven't seen the Key of Time or Trial of a Timelord, but I really liked Tom Baker's first season where every story was connected. Even if it didn't affect the story at all, since all the adventures could have been just different TARDIS destinations, it did give the season a unique texture.
Damn that's a hell of a response.
I'm starting to warm to Bad Wolf more now. At first my problem with it was that it was just a word with no significance. The Doctor asks the Dalek Emporer if he was trying to lead him here, but at no pint in the series did the Doctor actually persue the phrase.
But now I see that it's significance was that it was significant. It had to seem like it meant something in order to give Rose her second wind.
Then there's all that other stuff I mentioned earlier, like the set up for the heart of the TARDIS. Series 1 was pretty tight.
I guess it's important to note that there's much more to the arcs than just the themes. The way other elements weave together is important too. The Parallel universe story jumped off the tail coats of Father's Day and into Army of Ghosts. Doomsday was a continuation of the Time War, and led into the Daleks take Manhatan and Journey's End.
Martha had her arc of being rejected and accepted by the Doctor, Donna was brought back from the Christmas Speical [instead of a new love interest, thank god]. This also links into what you said about series 6. Because of Steven's "no writers room policy" the episodes in-between his story-thread had much less relevance to the arcing plot, and lacked character growth as a result.
Maybe it would have been better if the Doctor just kept meeting incarnations of Clara that died at the end. That could have gotten repetitive, but it would explain why she was so inconsistent as a person, and when he finally saved her at the end, it would have felt like much more of a triumph. Plus you would lose the kids in the Cyberman episode... I think I just sold myself on my own idea. Hind-sight!!!
20,000 limit?...Damn, I have to split this in two.
Here might be a helpful perspective. Even if he didn't burn the Time Lords, he still fought in the war for centuries. Who knows what other horrors he witness and atrocities he committed? Just because he didn't do the worst thing he possibly could, doesn't mean he still isn't scarred by the rest of his experiences.
Even if the bit of the Time War we saw was a far cry from the nightmare Tennant described, he still remembers killing everyone. Who knows what else happened to finally push him to that decision?
Dunno if that helps at all.
See above. I didn't think it was a big deal.
I agree. Again see above. Moffat's writing room policy. Fast and loose to a fault and so on.
only... "Time"... will tell
We just need to give the series... "Space" to grow ^_^
I think the Matt Smith arcs were tenacious ideas faulted by flimsy execution.
I think a marriage between episodic plots and over arching plots is better, but after the heavy stuff from series 5, 6 and 7, I'm inclined to agree on the old-fashioned model. Looks like we're getting that in series 8 so far.
Variety is good though. I liked it in series 6 where they actually split it up and had a mid series finale. And then again for a micro series saying goodbye to the Ponds and then left the rest for Clara, although the content was certainly mixed.
I suppose my main point was, why does the formula have to be contained to series. They don't have to treat the 13 episodes a year as their room?
A lot of RTD episodes brought back threads from episode to episode, like Captain Jack, the Slitheen, the Doctor's hand, the Cult of Skaro. Stuff that was pre established and made returns for continuations. That was good.
Sarah Jane was brought back for one episode, and referenced a lot of stuff from the classic series.
Then there's the stuff that hits the ground running. The Paternoster Gang and Churchill are introduced as pre-met companions. Then there's all the fast gag cutaways where we catch the tail end of other episodes. All the times the Doctor name drops and mentions off-screen adventures.
All that stuff is good, but its also fleeting and shallow to a degree, lacking the investment from the mythos that's built up that CAMERA OBSCURA mentioned. RTDs stories felt much more like they earned their mythos because it was all drawn from stories we saw.
Like Flopflips said, there's no hard and fast rules, there's lots of ways to structure stories, continuity and series long arcs. I just think the show should be less of a slave to the series long arc model.
I wouldn't mind seeing a series that has arcs. Maybe a couple that last 5 or 6 episodes each, and then have a finale that's built purely on character investment and a completely new story elements.
Maybe it could be a cliff hanger. Or the emotional cherry for the series. Or maybe a one-off adventure that just exists to be a good story.
I also wouldn't mind seeing some heavy hitting villains like Morbius, the Master, Davros or Omega making mid-series appearances instead of being saved for the big finale.
Maybe a series where the Doctor loses the TARDIS and has to make his travels by hitch hiking. Or a series entirely about fighting a new regime of the Daleks, with other aliens and creature stories mixed in along the way.
Try something new and tenacious, with a massive shift in status quo, like when Jon Pertwee was stranded on earth, or season 12 where it was all linked together. Or the Doctor gets amnesia, regenerates into a 12 year old, lives the life of a normal human for 20 years before his memories hit him like a bad hang-over, "god what did I do for the past 20 years... oh no... I have a foster father and a finance... and a no secrets BFF who now has to realise that she knows next to nothing about me, which could create a interesting and unique dynamic between her and me as Doctor and Companion"... OK, maybe not that fan-fic level nuts, but something.
Just a healthy change.
What was the point? We and the characters both know that the Doctor fought in the Time War. We and the characters both know that he committed genocide against the Timelords. We and the characters also both know that he is capable of regenerating and changing his face.
Clara aside, the majority of people in the universe only know a couple of the Doctor's faces at most. So what was the point in making it a big reveal that a face we'd never seen before was responsible for the Timelord genocide? From a character perspective it isn't a shock at all. From the Doctor's perspective, he's always been honest if destroyed about his actions but he's never denied it and would have no need to hide who did it. Because from a real-world perspective we have Moffat who tells us he doesn't write for the actor in the role, he "writes for the Doctor" who is the same man, no matter the face. Purely and simply, the War Doctor concept makes zero in-story sense as a secret/big reveal and amounts to nothing more than stunt casting.
And it was stunt casting that completely rewrote what had come before. Doctor Who has prided itself on being a family show, and to its credit it has dealt with that in a way few shows with that billing do - with a great sense of maturity. Farting aliens, camp overlords and often daft music aside the show has often ventured into mature and adult places, with mature and adult themes. It's never shied away from the concept of death, it's always been very open-minded when it comes to matters regarding gender equality and sexuality and the like. It works in life-lessons and wraps it all up in the notion that life is filled with consequences. If you destroy the global news corporation on Satellite 5 it comes back to bite you when that world collapses and falls into the clutches of the Daleks. When you hastily depose Harriet Jones, you vacate a space for Harold Saxon who goes on to destroy the lives of Martha's family. When you commit genocide against your own species, you live with it every day. Your decisions both good and bad become who you are, what you're doing, where you're going. You take either of those away and you're not you any more.
I felt it such a shame for the Doctor to be able to escape consequence with a whimsical solution that once again catered to stunt casting (in the briefest sense anyway, namely Capaldi). It became far too fantastical and as ridiculous as it sounds it's a plot point I really like to try and forget happened. Many friends of mine were so incredibly frustrated with the show already and that proved to be a breaking point for them - now they're not bothering to watch the brillaint Capaldi at all, because they've grown tired with this whimsical way of rewriting time that removes the notion of consequences. Now I love the show far too much to stop watching, but I sympathise with them entirely. It's not impressive or interesting to totally change the fabric of the character that's been developed over all these years and it makes me genuinely wonder what RTD thought of that development. I've had mixed opinions on Moffat's stories for years now - some are stunning whilst others are average to infuriating. That was the first story he wrote that made me seriously doubt his suitabilty for show runner any more, and it just so happened to be the 50th Anniversary Special which I'd spent so long looking forward to.
Then again, I'm just one viewer. And this post is an awful lot of opinion for someone who doesn't really matter.
In Series 3, count the number of times throughout the series, the Doctor says (approvingly) something like "You humans, you always survive, expanding throughout the Galaxies". Of course, this is to set up the finale which pits humans from the future (who have enlisted the Master) against humans from our present. The message is clear: unconditional expansion inevitably leads to conflict. Some other episodes in the series, "The Lazarus Experiment" (extended survival of a human individual) and "42" (survival of the human spaceship crew at the expense of the sun-creature they plunder) play to this theme.
Series 4 deals with pacifism, an anti-militarism; what is striking about this series for me is the number of times some sacrifices themselves for the Doctor or his allies. This happens in Planet of the Ood, The Sontaran ep, The Doctors Daughter, Silence in The Library and Midnight (half the adventures). In some episodes the Doctor is remarkably passive; Planet of the Ood would play out exactly as it does even if he wasn't there. The only adventure when he really sorts out a situation is "Fires of Pompeii" and even then he can't prevent substantial loss of life. The pay-off to all this is in the finale with Davros's line about the Doctor getting others to do his dirty work for him.