Latin is more about attitude than lines. Her Paso was pathetically limp, and should have been much better (she is an actress after all!!).
I think this is perceptive.
During the salsa and even in parts of the paso I caught an expression on darling Cherie's face as if to say "Why on earth am I making this move, as I have no feeling for it?"
Granted she is an actress and used to getting into a role and feeling the emotions (method acting?). But is it possible some of these fast percussive latins (as opposed to cherie's instinct for rounded shapes and symmetry) are more to do with youthful exuberance than emotion, more to do with the body than the mind. A 56yo may no longer have so much appetite about frenetic movement for movement's sake?
Would Jodie have got that consideration....? or even Rachel......
That's not the point I'm making Cas - quertyqueen said as an actress she should have performed better and I was responding to that point.
But I don't think she was over marked if that's what you are saying, by mentioning Jodie or Rachel. I think the judges marked her on what they saw as experts, rather than armchair judges like me who isn't able to judge lines and footwork, etc.
Most of the celebrities favour one discipline over the other...that's been the case in most of the past Strictlys - even the winners. Mark Ramprakash wasn't all that fabulous at ballroom and I seem to remember that Darren Gough did struggle a little in the latin rounds. I can only really think of Alesha whose been good in both...even Jill Halfpenny was a better latin dancer than ballroom. Cherie clearly feels more comfortable in ballroom and there's nothing wrong with that. She's going to have to pull something decent out of the bag on Saturday but going on previous track records, it doesn't have to be remarkable for her to get through to the final.
Would Jodie have got that consideration....? or even Rachel......
Dunno about Jodie - questionable - but Rachel definitely would have. We saw her routine last Saturday end very awkwardly and none of the judges commented on this and all scored her highly. Which is fine - she was good overall - but she is one of the judges' favourites and even Len's rant the other week was followed by a very good score. So theories about Cherie being singled out for 'special' treatment hold no water.
As for her CHAR CHAR CHAR: I don't subscribe to the notion that Cherie can't do uptempo latin dances. As BuddyB says, all her performance skills went out the window when she screwed up the start to her paso and that's what made it look awkward. I think she was concentrating so hard on not going wrong again that she forgot to 'act' the dance. Her salsa was a mess but, again, I would attribute this to her nerves rather than any lack of ability: the footage of her in the salsa cub looked promising. But that potential got destroyed by a last minute panic that undid the work she'd put in.
This is potentially a watershed week for Cherie, but the training footage doesn't look too bad - provided she doesn't let her confidence dip.
But given that the apparently most popular contestant this year can't even dance at all, who knows how the public will vote for her - or, indeed, any of the other contestants who are actually making an effort? :rolleyes:
I don't think Salsa should really be included in SCD, as some pros are obviously a lot more experienced in it than others (e.g. Brian was fantastic, Darren hasn't produced a single Salsa [out of three] which I've liked), whereas with true DanceSport dances, it's a lot more even.
We've had some great salsas though - Mark/Karen, Matt/Flavia, John/Nicole, Gethin/Camelia, Louisa/Vincent, Carole/Matt - I thought Alesha/Matt's was under-rated myself and I'm looking forward to Tom's. James's next one will be better.
As BuddyB says, all her performance skills went out the window when she screwed up the start to her paso and that's what made it look awkward. I think she was concentrating so hard on not going wrong again that she forgot to 'act' the dance. Her salsa was a mess but, again, I would attribute this to her nerves rather than any lack of ability:
Not sure I buy this. Other celebs get nervous/make mistakes but still remember the routine. I think the same performance from another would have been given harsher treatment by the judges.
I've liked Cherie from the start but she definitely gets an easier ride.
Not sure I buy this. Other celebs get nervous/make mistakes but still remember the routine. I think the same performance from another would have been given harsher treatment by the judges.
I've liked Cherie from the start but she definitely gets an easier ride.
Oh - easier than Tom Chambers, who forgot which way he was going in his routine a couple of weeks ago yet still got 9s? :rolleyes:
Not sure I buy this. Other celebs get nervous/make mistakes but still remember the routine. I think the same performance from another would have been given harsher treatment by the judges.
I've liked Cherie from the start but she definitely gets an easier ride.
We've seen other celebs be thrown by making mistakes early in routines though - to a lesser extent both Rachel and Austin have had that happen to them.
Although I have to admit that Jodie would have been more harshly marked for a mistake like that which was glaringly obvious. I saw this as someone who likes both Jodie and Cherie and wishes them well but does rather fear for them both this week and with the latin they have do after that - especially in both cases the jive (I know Jodie's got a good ballroom dance but it's a fast one and I'm a bit scared it's going to go wrong - I'm also a bit scared that Cherie's might not be either for the same reason when she gets to it).
Oh - easier than Tom Chambers, who forgot which way he was going in his routine a couple of weeks ago yet still got 9s? :rolleyes:
All in the eye of the beholder, I guess ...
I agree. I didn't say all others. She's by no means the only one the judges see through rose-tinted glasses. I for one would love to see more marking consistency but it's like wishing for world peace I suspect.
Oh - easier than Tom Chambers, who forgot which way he was going in his routine a couple of weeks ago yet still got 9s? :rolleyes:
All in the eye of the beholder, I guess ...
Of course. I'm not warming to Tom but I have to say that his slip was pretty seemlessly covered whereas there is no way people could fail to notice that Cherie had lost the plot in the salsa. The real issue for me is Cherie's apparent lack of enjoyment, or her inability to put any enjoyment she is feeling, across in the Latin, rather than her technical mistakes. Even Jodie, with a flat footed, poorly timed samba looked as if she was having a good time whereas Cherie just looks miserable and tense. I'm not sure whether it is nerves as you think (and I have agreed with in the past) or as I begin to suspect, she just doesn't have much sense of rhythm. Whatever, I'm looking forward to seeing the Cha cha cha.
I agree. I didn't say all others. She's by no means the only one the judges see through rose-tinted glasses. I for one would love to see more marking consistency but it's like wishing for world peace I suspect.
I'll drink to that too. But I suspect all that would achieve is a stinking hangover ... :rolleyes:
The producers clearly have a plan as to how they want the rest of the series to go. The spanner in the works at the moment is John and, unfortunately, it may undo the likes of Cherie, Jodie and Christine in the weeks ahead - especially as the BBC has spent all week furiously whipping up the Cult of John Sergeant to new heights (or new lows, depending on which way you look at it ... ).
Of course. I'm not warming to Tom but I have to say that his slip was pretty seemlessly covered whereas there is no way people could fail to notice that Cherie had lost the plot in the salsa. The real issue for me is Cherie's apparent lack of enjoyment, or her inability to put any enjoyment she is feeling, across in the Latin, rather than her technical mistakes. Even Jodie, with a flat footed, poorly timed samba looked as if she was having a good time whereas Cherie just looks miserable and tense. I'm not sure whether it is nerves as you think (and I have agreed with in the past) or as I begin to suspect, she just doesn't have much sense of rhythm. Whatever, I'm looking forward to seeing the Cha cha cha.
I'd say she threw herself into the rumba and it paid off. I think the miserable face you refer to is more like a rabbit in the headlights - which, given that she screwed up the intro to her paso and lost the plot in her salsa, is hardly surprising.
Cherie has a major hurdle to overcome on Saturday - and I think she is as aware of that as everybody else. I think the cha cha cha will be a turning point - one way or the other ...
Either way, she - and (I'm guessing) everyone will need their supporters' help this week in the face of Juggernaut John ... :eek:
I'd say she threw herself into the rumba and it paid off. I think the miserable face you refer to is more like a rabbit in the headlights - which, given that she screwed up the intro to her paso and lost the plot in her salsa, is hardly surprising.
Cherie has a major hurdle to overcome on Saturday - and I think she is as aware of that as everybody else. I think the cha cha cha will be a turning point - one way or the other ...
Either way, she - and (I'm guessing) everyone will need their supporters' help this week in the face of Juggernaut John ... :eek:
Cherie has a major hurdle to overcome on Saturday - and I think she is as aware of that as everybody else. I think the cha cha cha will be a turning point - one way or the other ...
The cha cha cha has an elastic boomerang quality which will come naturally to anyone at any age who is as musical as Cherie. The crunch dance will be the percussive jive. I fear the 56yo will be asking herself, "What is all this frenetic hyperactivity all about? What does it achieve?"
The cha cha cha has an elastic boomerang quality which will come naturally to anyone at any age who is as musical as Cherie. The crunch dance will be the percussive jive. I fear the 56yo will be asking herself, "What is all this frenetic hyperactivity all about? What does it achieve?"
I have to admit I compare every jive I see to Vincent's and Louisa's which is hardly fair LOL!
The cha cha cha has an elastic boomerang quality which will come naturally to anyone at any age who is as musical as Cherie. The crunch dance will be the percussive jive. I fear the 56yo will be asking herself, "What is all this frenetic hyperactivity all about? What does it achieve?"
Nothing to do with being 56 though. I know quite a few very keen and adept jivers of that age - they did it first time around after all! It's more to do with being a former ballet dancer I suspect and seeing musical expression as a much more intellectual dispcipline.
The cha cha cha has an elastic boomerang quality which will come naturally to anyone at any age who is as musical as Cherie. The crunch dance will be the percussive jive. I fear the 56yo will be asking herself, "What is all this frenetic hyperactivity all about? What does it achieve?"
I've got to disagree with you there. I'm a year older than Cherie, and as a child of the 60's who was heavily into rock and roll, R&B and rock etc, I know precisely what all that frenetic activity is about. I still bop about (in the privacy of my own home :eek:) when I hear the right sort of driving rhythm. Either it's in your soul, or it's not, and I happen to think that it's not really in Cherie's, much as I love her.
That doesn't mean she can't learn to get into the right groove and gradually start to feel it. She will probably never dance Latin as well as she does ballroom, but if she gets that 'lightbulb' moment, she'll be as competent as she seems to be at just about everything else.
Having said that, I think it's crucial that James chooses the right music for her. Despite her slip up at the start of the paso, I loved that dance - but the music jarred. She'll find it a lot easier to get into the groove if he chooses straightforward, classic jive music. Same goes for the cha cha cha.
I think it's crucial that James chooses the right music for her.
I thought Cherie was looking a bit more comfortable in the cha cha till I saw that leg guitar bit in their training VT. I'm guessing the music isn't going to be cha cha friendly and faux guitars using legs is really naff. The last time I saw someone use that was in a jive back in 1992! I just thought that move was so wrong for someone like Cherie. I really hope that doesn't make it into their choreography tomorrow.
I thought Cherie was looking a bit more comfortable in the cha cha till I saw that leg guitar bit in their training VT. I'm guessing the music isn't going to be cha cha friendly and faux guitars using legs is really naff. The last time I saw someone use that was in a jive back in 1992! I just thought that move was so wrong for someone like Cherie. I really hope that doesn't make it into their choreography tomorrow.
I keep having to fight images of Andrew Castle head-banging to 'Twentieth Century Boy' out of my head. Do you think James and Ola are secret heavy rock fans? :eek:
I guess all will be revealed tonight when we get a blast of the music on ITT ... *crosses fingers*
I keep having to fight images of Andrew Castle head-banging to 'Twentieth Century Boy' out of my head. Do you think James and Ola are secret heavy rock fans? :eek:
I guess all will be revealed tonight when we get a blast of the music on ITT ... *crosses fingers*
That really was the most appalling error of judgment, wasn't it? Andrew looked utterly ludicrous - quite how Ola couldn't see that it would make him a laughing stock defeats me.
Let's hope James hasn't got Cherie playing air guitar to Guns 'n' Roses....or Metallica...or Black Sabbath...!:eek:
Comments
I think this is perceptive.
During the salsa and even in parts of the paso I caught an expression on darling Cherie's face as if to say "Why on earth am I making this move, as I have no feeling for it?"
Granted she is an actress and used to getting into a role and feeling the emotions (method acting?). But is it possible some of these fast percussive latins (as opposed to cherie's instinct for rounded shapes and symmetry) are more to do with youthful exuberance than emotion, more to do with the body than the mind. A 56yo may no longer have so much appetite about frenetic movement for movement's sake?
But best of luck to Cherie from this fan. XX
That's not the point I'm making Cas - quertyqueen said as an actress she should have performed better and I was responding to that point.
But I don't think she was over marked if that's what you are saying, by mentioning Jodie or Rachel. I think the judges marked her on what they saw as experts, rather than armchair judges like me who isn't able to judge lines and footwork, etc.
Thank you for saying this!
Dunno about Jodie - questionable - but Rachel definitely would have. We saw her routine last Saturday end very awkwardly and none of the judges commented on this and all scored her highly. Which is fine - she was good overall - but she is one of the judges' favourites and even Len's rant the other week was followed by a very good score. So theories about Cherie being singled out for 'special' treatment hold no water.
As for her CHAR CHAR CHAR: I don't subscribe to the notion that Cherie can't do uptempo latin dances. As BuddyB says, all her performance skills went out the window when she screwed up the start to her paso and that's what made it look awkward. I think she was concentrating so hard on not going wrong again that she forgot to 'act' the dance. Her salsa was a mess but, again, I would attribute this to her nerves rather than any lack of ability: the footage of her in the salsa cub looked promising. But that potential got destroyed by a last minute panic that undid the work she'd put in.
This is potentially a watershed week for Cherie, but the training footage doesn't look too bad - provided she doesn't let her confidence dip.
But given that the apparently most popular contestant this year can't even dance at all, who knows how the public will vote for her - or, indeed, any of the other contestants who are actually making an effort? :rolleyes:
We've had some great salsas though - Mark/Karen, Matt/Flavia, John/Nicole, Gethin/Camelia, Louisa/Vincent, Carole/Matt - I thought Alesha/Matt's was under-rated myself and I'm looking forward to Tom's. James's next one will be better.
Not sure I buy this. Other celebs get nervous/make mistakes but still remember the routine. I think the same performance from another would have been given harsher treatment by the judges.
I've liked Cherie from the start but she definitely gets an easier ride.
Oh - easier than Tom Chambers, who forgot which way he was going in his routine a couple of weeks ago yet still got 9s? :rolleyes:
All in the eye of the beholder, I guess ...
We've seen other celebs be thrown by making mistakes early in routines though - to a lesser extent both Rachel and Austin have had that happen to them.
Although I have to admit that Jodie would have been more harshly marked for a mistake like that which was glaringly obvious. I saw this as someone who likes both Jodie and Cherie and wishes them well but does rather fear for them both this week and with the latin they have do after that - especially in both cases the jive (I know Jodie's got a good ballroom dance but it's a fast one and I'm a bit scared it's going to go wrong - I'm also a bit scared that Cherie's might not be either for the same reason when she gets to it).
I agree. I didn't say all others. She's by no means the only one the judges see through rose-tinted glasses. I for one would love to see more marking consistency but it's like wishing for world peace I suspect.
Of course. I'm not warming to Tom but I have to say that his slip was pretty seemlessly covered whereas there is no way people could fail to notice that Cherie had lost the plot in the salsa. The real issue for me is Cherie's apparent lack of enjoyment, or her inability to put any enjoyment she is feeling, across in the Latin, rather than her technical mistakes. Even Jodie, with a flat footed, poorly timed samba looked as if she was having a good time whereas Cherie just looks miserable and tense. I'm not sure whether it is nerves as you think (and I have agreed with in the past) or as I begin to suspect, she just doesn't have much sense of rhythm. Whatever, I'm looking forward to seeing the Cha cha cha.
I'll drink to that too. But I suspect all that would achieve is a stinking hangover ... :rolleyes:
The producers clearly have a plan as to how they want the rest of the series to go. The spanner in the works at the moment is John and, unfortunately, it may undo the likes of Cherie, Jodie and Christine in the weeks ahead - especially as the BBC has spent all week furiously whipping up the Cult of John Sergeant to new heights (or new lows, depending on which way you look at it ...
I'd say she threw herself into the rumba and it paid off. I think the miserable face you refer to is more like a rabbit in the headlights - which, given that she screwed up the intro to her paso and lost the plot in her salsa, is hardly surprising.
Cherie has a major hurdle to overcome on Saturday - and I think she is as aware of that as everybody else. I think the cha cha cha will be a turning point - one way or the other ...
Either way, she - and (I'm guessing) everyone will need their supporters' help this week in the face of Juggernaut John ... :eek:
Sums up the situation nicely for me - ta!:)
The cha cha cha has an elastic boomerang quality which will come naturally to anyone at any age who is as musical as Cherie. The crunch dance will be the percussive jive. I fear the 56yo will be asking herself, "What is all this frenetic hyperactivity all about? What does it achieve?"
I have to admit I compare every jive I see to Vincent's and Louisa's which is hardly fair LOL!
Nothing to do with being 56 though. I know quite a few very keen and adept jivers of that age - they did it first time around after all! It's more to do with being a former ballet dancer I suspect and seeing musical expression as a much more intellectual dispcipline.
I've got to disagree with you there. I'm a year older than Cherie, and as a child of the 60's who was heavily into rock and roll, R&B and rock etc, I know precisely what all that frenetic activity is about. I still bop about (in the privacy of my own home :eek:) when I hear the right sort of driving rhythm. Either it's in your soul, or it's not, and I happen to think that it's not really in Cherie's, much as I love her.
That doesn't mean she can't learn to get into the right groove and gradually start to feel it. She will probably never dance Latin as well as she does ballroom, but if she gets that 'lightbulb' moment, she'll be as competent as she seems to be at just about everything else.
Having said that, I think it's crucial that James chooses the right music for her. Despite her slip up at the start of the paso, I loved that dance - but the music jarred. She'll find it a lot easier to get into the groove if he chooses straightforward, classic jive music. Same goes for the cha cha cha.
I thought Cherie was looking a bit more comfortable in the cha cha till I saw that leg guitar bit in their training VT. I'm guessing the music isn't going to be cha cha friendly and faux guitars using legs is really naff. The last time I saw someone use that was in a jive back in 1992! I just thought that move was so wrong for someone like Cherie. I really hope that doesn't make it into their choreography tomorrow.
I know! :eek::(
Unsure about this too.
I keep having to fight images of Andrew Castle head-banging to 'Twentieth Century Boy' out of my head. Do you think James and Ola are secret heavy rock fans? :eek:
I guess all will be revealed tonight when we get a blast of the music on ITT ... *crosses fingers*
That really was the most appalling error of judgment, wasn't it? Andrew looked utterly ludicrous - quite how Ola couldn't see that it would make him a laughing stock defeats me.
Let's hope James hasn't got Cherie playing air guitar to Guns 'n' Roses....or Metallica...or Black Sabbath...!:eek:
Worrying!