Openreach... Who are they???
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The title got you attention then, Iv'e been reading this forum for a while now but only joined recently, I have noticed that a lot of posts refer to BT as the company that will repair a telephone line so I just thought I'd start a thread to see if we can educate other users about who will actually fix a faulty land line.
Now it's true that Openreach is part of the BT group, but they are a separate company, at least as far as the market is concerned. Openreach was created nearly 10 years ago now and I'm amazed how confused some people still seem to be.
It does not matter who you pay for your land line service, if it needs to be repaired then it will very likely be an Openreach engineer, I stress Openreach, not BT Openreach,
There is no such company called BT Openreach the same way there is no company call Kingfisher B&Q, the Kingfisher Group owns B&Q along with Screwfix and I think a few other DIY type shops but B&Q is only known by that name.
BT owns Openreach, at least for now anyway, but it is just Openreach because that is what OfCom want. If your line is faulty, then let the company you rent the line off know and they should arrange for it to be fixed, SKY have there own engineers and so do Talk Talk but none of the companies, including BT can repair anything behind the master socket, that has to be Openreach.
Now it's true that Openreach is part of the BT group, but they are a separate company, at least as far as the market is concerned. Openreach was created nearly 10 years ago now and I'm amazed how confused some people still seem to be.
It does not matter who you pay for your land line service, if it needs to be repaired then it will very likely be an Openreach engineer, I stress Openreach, not BT Openreach,
There is no such company called BT Openreach the same way there is no company call Kingfisher B&Q, the Kingfisher Group owns B&Q along with Screwfix and I think a few other DIY type shops but B&Q is only known by that name.
BT owns Openreach, at least for now anyway, but it is just Openreach because that is what OfCom want. If your line is faulty, then let the company you rent the line off know and they should arrange for it to be fixed, SKY have there own engineers and so do Talk Talk but none of the companies, including BT can repair anything behind the master socket, that has to be Openreach.
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Aren't Sky and TalkTalk working on their own networks soon?
Iv'e not heard anything but I doubt it, the cost would bankrupt even a big company like SKY, plus the underground on most streets are already pretty full with gas, water pipes, electricity cables, telephone cables and ducting waste water pipes, don't think you could shoe horn much else down there lol.
I'd like to see how they get FTTH cheap enough to be wide spread though
Except for if you have a landline from Virgin on their network, except for if you have a KC landline on their network etc etc.
Plus we don't want any more perishing pavement digging ups! Virgin media trenches are the worst, sagging asphalt eveywhere, pavement-obstructing green cabinets all over the place, far more than BT.Openreach ever had - enough is enough!
Any expansion of other networks should be via existing Openreach cabling AND Virgin Media cabling, who like Openreach, should be forced to wholesale space on their infrastructure to others.
You've sort of made the point of this thread, yes Virgin Media do have a large network in the UK, but they are not everywhere, you can be paying VM for you phone line but still have Openreach out if it goes off, granted it's a small percentage but VM do try and sell their phone service to customers and will use Openreach network to do that.
As for KC, as far as I am aware they are part of Kingston-Upon-Hull which don't stretch outside of that district, so you may have got me on that one.
Not sure if the ect ect was necessary as I think that's all the networks covered!
Openreach is simply a construct to make it seem as if BT is separating itself. There's still the huge issue of money. BT Wholesale and BT Retail's "payments" to Openreach for their services are just money going from one pocket to another - not like a third party who suffers a real cost to their business. I wonder how much of that gets spent on buying EE and free sports for BT retail customers? There's also the question of whether Openreach is making decisions in the best interests of the entire industry, or whether they are in the best interests of BT Wholesale/BT Retail
It'll still be BT right up until the point that full separation happens.
They don't try to anymore, the off net business was sold to TalkTalk a few months ago. And it's debatable whether they really tried when they owned it - as it basically seemed to exist to keep customers who moved from cabled to non cabled areas. The actual service was well behind other BT-based competition.
It's rather pointless pedantry. If you have a VM residential phone line it is highly likely that it is on entirely VM infrastructure and VM will send one of their own out to fix it. Business customers may work differently, since VM still operates far away from their cabled networks by leasing fibre from BT and others
What about B4RN, Hyperoptic and Gigaclear?
There are other altnets out there as well.
So are you saying I can contact any of these companies and request a telephone line and they will dig up my road and lay cables to my sitting room?
If you live in their areas (or in Hyperoptic's case, a building that they serve), then yes, they'll install the service into your home. They offer residential services at sane prices.
I thought I would start a conversation to educate readers, that's why I "pointed it out"
Openreach is a separate company requested by and heavily scrutinised by OfCom, if you have real evidence that Openreach are dealing outside of those guidelines then give ofCom a call, I would like to hear what they have to say.
Also, this is not the first time I have answered one of your post denying that VM use the Openreach network, you seem realy sure, I wonder how you know?
So they are a small minority then, the point of this thread was to educate people about Openreach and who they are. I don't think even 1% of the whole communication market will be covered by those companies.
I stand by original point, it is very likely that Openreach will be the company that repairs your telephone line as they work on behalf of hundreds of communication providers like SKY and TalkTalk, Virgin Media would be a close second as they just do their own.
What BT is doing isn't necessarily outside any guidelines or legislation - but it is interesting behaviour.
Openreach is not separate. It is part of the BT Group. They share many business functions with other BT Group businesses and Openreach revenue/profit stays within the same corporate body. There may be some chinese walls as far as certain operations go (so that BT Retail/BT Wholesale/Plusnet in theory cannot gain an advantage) but that doesn't make it truly separate.
Nothing short of a full spinoff to a separately traded company will be real separation.
How do I know what? That TalkTalk bought the off-net VM business? You could look at the news. Like http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/phones/2015/01/virgin-media-begins-notifying-non-cable-customers-of-transfer-to-talktalk-
So? Other providers who don't use BT infrastructure are worth pointing out.
Darren
Why point out the providers that don;t use BT infastructure in a thread about Openreach.
This seems to be turning into a dick measuring contest.
I have read a lot of your post, you definitely know your stuff about the industry. Let this thread be for the vast majority of people who don't know as much as you do so they will know who Openreach are when one of the thousands of vans go past.
Yes, I think they do, Quinns are another, not sure if they repair though I think they do initial provision of a new line, possibly.
OK, just read it. see what you mean.
It's fairly common knowledge
Oct 2013: https://recombu.com/digital/article/virgin-media-stops-selling-adsl-national-broadband-service_M12257.html
Nov 2014: https://recombu.com/digital/article/talktalk-buys-virgin-media-copper-adsl-broadband
It really isn't, what you have said is exactly what i would expect but BT Retail for their TV side of things stopped using Openreach engineers and went for Cube as they were cheaper per visit, even though BT is its only customer for the TV product openreach could have dropped the price but Openreach wants the bigger profits, yes logically a BT Group share holder would expect that money within the company makes more sense in the grand scheme of things but there are individual targets to meet and everyone is against each other to do so.
They are probably doing the same thing that British Gas and Centrica are doing by engaging so say Sainsbury’s Energy in selling their wares to keep prying eyes from Westminster out of their bank accounts.
Just a thought.:)
I'm not sure that we need to be educated. It's a pedantic point anyway.
Yes, The company that provides the service is a separate division to the one that fixes the service.
But it is ungainly to refer to them as "Openreach a BT group company." People know what you mean when you say BT Openreach (and is still correct) and indeed BT is part of their logo. In fact it would be more correct to say Openreach BT as that is how it reads on the side of the vans,