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French Police Force Women To Take Off Burkinis

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    eggcheneggchen Posts: 2,921
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    Tres bien
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    0...00...0 Posts: 21,111
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    That's good news. Well done France.
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    0...00...0 Posts: 21,111
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    UIR wrote: »
    common sense....

    Meanwhile 100s of millions of women continue to be oppressed by Muslim men and forced to wear burkas and Niqabs.

    Logic.

    Though I guess the 'Are muslims the new jews' thread can now be closed. As this was basically all it was based on....

    The whole point of democratic Western societies is that we are better than theocratic dictatorships. Hopefully with the court ruling this has held a mirror up to those societies that do dictate what their women wear and will spark something there.
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    frisky pythonfrisky python Posts: 9,737
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    Good to see this law overturned. Knee jerk reactionary policies are never a good basis for actually tackling the issue of extremism.
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    DinkyDoobieDinkyDoobie Posts: 17,786
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    French mayors do not have the right to ban burkinis, the French Council of State ruled Friday, suspending the bans already in place in a number of French cities and towns.

    Interesting. They only overturned the ban in Villeneuve-Loubet which iirc was the mayor who referenced "ostentatious religious clothing" so it will be interesting to see the full decision as article 8/9 has provisions that allow for restrictions based on safety/public disorder, health and moral reasons.
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    GrafenwalderGrafenwalder Posts: 8,004
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    Interesting. They only overturned the ban in Villeneuve-Loubet which iirc was the mayor who referenced "ostentatious religious clothing" so it will be interesting to see the full decision as article 8/9 has provisions that allow for restrictions based on safety/public disorder, health and moral reasons.
    It states,

    Arguments in France's highest administrative court this week have focused on the southern town of Villeneuve-Loubet, near Nice. But the ruling affects cities across the country.

    I think the last sentence is fairly conclusive.
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    DinkyDoobieDinkyDoobie Posts: 17,786
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    I think the last sentence is fairly conclusive.

    It isn't a final ruling.
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    UIRUIR Posts: 2,081
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    0...0 wrote: »
    The whole point of democratic Western societies is that we are better than theocratic dictatorships. Hopefully with the court ruling this has held a mirror up to those societies that do dictate what their women wear and will spark something there.

    Unlikely.

    Its basically saying we cant tell you to remove your chains because its oppresses you but your masters can force you to wear it.

    Which seems odd.
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    UIRUIR Posts: 2,081
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    The Burka remains banned in France though doesn't it?
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    GrafenwalderGrafenwalder Posts: 8,004
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    It isn't a final ruling.
    Just a matter of crossing the t's etc. The ink is as good as dry!
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    DinkyDoobieDinkyDoobie Posts: 17,786
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    Just a matter of crossing the t's etc. The ink is as good as dry!

    I don't know how you can say that considering, as far as i know, nobody has found the actual law in question nor the reasons behind the courts decision.
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    DianaFireDianaFire Posts: 12,711
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    Very good news. It was a daft ban.
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    MinnieMinzMinnieMinz Posts: 4,052
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    I'm sure ISIS are following this with deep interest. I just hope they don't use female suicide bombers in burqas now as two fingers to France. God forbid and I hope the poster currently in France, Bar_mag I think? stays safe.
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    stoatiestoatie Posts: 78,106
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    MinnieMinz wrote: »
    I'm sure ISIS are following this with deep interest. I just hope they don't use female suicide bombers in burqas now as two fingers to France. God forbid and I hope the poster currently in France, Bar_mag I think? stays safe.

    This isn't about burkas. Not much room for a suicide vest in a burkini.
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    DianaFireDianaFire Posts: 12,711
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    MinnieMinz wrote: »
    I'm sure ISIS are following this with deep interest. I just hope they don't use female suicide bombers in burqas now as two fingers to France. God forbid and I hope the poster currently in France, Bar_mag I think? stays safe.

    The burkha is still banned. It's the swimsuit or burkini which has had the ban overturned.
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    UIRUIR Posts: 2,081
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    MinnieMinz wrote: »
    I'm sure ISIS are following this with deep interest. I just hope they don't use female suicide bombers in burqas now as two fingers to France. God forbid and I hope the poster currently in France, Bar_mag I think? stays safe.

    They probably will. I suspect they find it all a bit of a joke and nothing more than infighting between French local and national governments.

    Ideal for a death cult like ISIS to attack. we'll light a candle and stick a flag up on big ben. That'll sort it.
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    GrafenwalderGrafenwalder Posts: 8,004
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    I don't know how you can say that considering, as far as i know, nobody has found the actual law in question nor the reasons behind the courts decision.
    Still fairly early yet as the news had only just broke when i posted but more is coming out now.

    The Council of State, the highest court in the French administrative justice system, ruled that the ban, enacted by the town of Villeneuve-Loubet on Aug. 5, violated civil liberties.

    At least 20 other municipalities, most of which are on the French Riviera, have imposed similar bans, and although the decision on Friday does not apply directly to them, it can be seen as a warning that their bans are likely to be similarly struck down if challenged in court. The largest such community is the city of Nice.


    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/27/world/europe/france-burkini-ban.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0


    The court statement to the press is here.

    https://twitter.com/reportedly
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    MinnieMinzMinnieMinz Posts: 4,052
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    stoatie wrote: »
    This isn't about burkas. Not much room for a suicide vest in a burkini.
    DianaFire wrote: »
    The burkha is still banned. It's the swimsuit or burkini which has had the ban overturned.

    I'm aware thanks both. My point was the sick bastards behind ISIS will use anything they can to get at the people of France, driving lorries into crowds of families, bombing cafes, sending killers in where people were watching a band, sending killers up onto a beach to slaughter people enjoying the sun with their families. They will think nothing of using this as some kind of propaganda to launch another attack.
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    stoatiestoatie Posts: 78,106
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    MinnieMinz wrote: »
    I'm aware thanks both. My point was the sick bastards behind ISIS will use anything they can to get at the people of France, driving lorries into crowds of families, bombing cafes, sending killers in where people were watching a band, sending killers up onto a beach to slaughter people enjoying the sun with their families. They will think nothing of using this as some kind of propaganda to launch another attack.

    This is sadly true, but they'd also think nothing of using the ban itself in the same way.
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    DianaFireDianaFire Posts: 12,711
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    MinnieMinz wrote: »
    I'm aware thanks both. My point was the sick bastards behind ISIS will use anything they can to get at the people of France, driving lorries into crowds of families, bombing cafes, sending killers in where people were watching a band, sending killers up onto a beach to slaughter people enjoying the sun with their families. They will think nothing of using this as some kind of propaganda to launch another attack.

    Now that the ban's been overturned they've missed their slot, so to speak. Not that they need an excuse.
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    MinnieMinzMinnieMinz Posts: 4,052
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    stoatie wrote: »
    This is sadly true, but they'd also think nothing of using the ban itself in the same way.
    DianaFire wrote: »
    Now that the ban's been overturned they've missed their slot, so to speak. Not that they need an excuse.

    I can see why the French people who supported this ban behaved the way they did, living in daily terror is the most scary thing I can think of.
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    GrafenwalderGrafenwalder Posts: 8,004
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    A French politician Christian Estrosi, the President of Provence-Alpes-Côte d'Azur has already thrown his toys out the pram and now threatening legal action against social media users for sharing photos of police enforcing a ban on the burkini. :D

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/france-threatens-sue-social-media-users-sharing-burkini-ban-photos-nice-christian-estrosi-a7208646.html
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    0...00...0 Posts: 21,111
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    MinnieMinz wrote: »
    I'm aware thanks both. My point was the sick bastards behind ISIS will use anything they can to get at the people of France, driving lorries into crowds of families, bombing cafes, sending killers in where people were watching a band, sending killers up onto a beach to slaughter people enjoying the sun with their families. They will think nothing of using this as some kind of propaganda to launch another attack.

    To the likes of Isis the woman on the beach would be fair game as she was sitting amongst unclothed men and women and wasn't covering enough. The unpredictable nihilism of Isis is terrifying, I agree and I understand it's human nature to try and do something. But this wasn't it.
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    MinnieMinzMinnieMinz Posts: 4,052
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    0...0 wrote: »
    To the likes of Isis the woman on the beach would be fair game as she was sitting amongst unclothed men and women and wasn't covering enough. The unpredictable nihilism of Isis is terrifying, I agree and I understand it's human nature to try and do something. But this wasn't it.

    I know it isn't my original post about being in two minds was because I understood where the French people were coming from.
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    DianaFireDianaFire Posts: 12,711
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    MinnieMinz wrote: »
    I can see why the French people who supported this ban behaved the way they did, living in daily terror is the most scary thing I can think of.

    I can imagine the terror part after the atrocities, just not the terrified of a headscarf part. I think we'll have to agree to differ on that one.
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