Are Muslims becoming the Jews of 1940s Germany?

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  • jesayajesaya Posts: 35,597
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    It's an anti-semitic trope, imo. I read a similar sentiment expressed in a long letter published by the Glasgow Herald about 10 years ago, written by a Muslim woman. The newspaper even went to the trouble of featuring a photograph of her, if I recall correctly.
    Kinda plump and middle-aged with an I'm-being-hunted-and-oppressed-vibe. :D

    It is nothing to do with being 'anti-semitic' because the comparison being made isn't between Jews and Muslims... but the non-Jews & non-Muslims who allowed their fear/prejudice of a group to enable repressive (and, in the case of European Jews, genocidal) consequences. No-one is saying a holocaust is happening to Muslims in Europe... they are concerned about the circumstances developing where it might.
  • UIRUIR Posts: 2,081
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    jesaya wrote: »
    We are talking about what might happen though - and whilst the burkini ban is one of the few legal changes that target Muslims for being Muslims, there are plenty of calls for 'send em home' or for other laws that limit freedoms. You say 'Muslims are not banned from government. Nor will they be.' - well that is exactly what many people in Germany thought in 1930, and look what happened.

    We are more likely to ban Jews than Muslims. Im sure you have noticed that a large number of people are anti semetic. Its often hidden behind "I hate Zionists, not Jews" but when challenged, they cant explain the differences.

    This is prevalent in Government and society. High profile politicians and public figures in recent months have demonstrated these anti jewish beliefs are still alive and well today.

    The Burkini ban has now been over turned so muslim women are free to continue being oppressed by muslim men. Not European laws, muslim men. So the entire premise of this thread no longer exists.

    I tell you what though, Jews can only dream of being treated how Muslims are despite the current situation in the world. Jews dont even need to attack anyone in order to have others try and wipe them out. Thats right, people dont make laws just to prevent Jews from doing certain things, they make laws to ensure jews dont exist. These laws still exist in some middle east countries, the TV stations in these places still spout long since debunked anti Jewish conspiracies. Its not just Muslims though, Christians and conspiracy theorists are just as bad.
  • tour de forcetour de force Posts: 4,029
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    jesaya wrote: »
    It is nothing to do with being 'anti-semitic' because the comparison being made isn't between Jews and Muslims... but the non-Jews & non-Muslims who allowed their fear/prejudice of a group to enable repressive (and, in the case of European Jews, genocidal) consequences. No-one is saying a holocaust is happening to Muslims in Europe... they are concerned about the circumstances developing where it might.

    Sure they are. It's a bit like people these days being hugely concerned about dog mess being left around in public. Of course most dog owners are very responsible and clean up after their pets. Yet already owners are banned from taking their dogs to some parks and beaches. Some people are very bigoted against dogs. Where will the oppression end ? Are dog owners the new Jews ? It may only be the rumblings of the beginning of a nation-wide oppression which might lead to a doggy owner holocaust , but it's a conversation worth having, don't you think ?


    :D:D:D:D:D
  • UIRUIR Posts: 2,081
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    jesaya wrote: »
    It is nothing to do with being 'anti-semitic' because the comparison being made isn't between Jews and Muslims... but the non-Jews & non-Muslims who allowed their fear/prejudice of a group to enable repressive (and, in the case of European Jews, genocidal) consequences. No-one is saying a holocaust is happening to Muslims in Europe... they are concerned about the circumstances developing where it might.

    If it does, its likely to be whites and Jews who are the victims. Because thats the nature of the world today. All problems are a result of 'straight white males' and Jews. Theres an entire radicalised movement spreading this nonsense now.

    Muslims have it better here than they do in the middle east. Significantly so. They've nothing to worry about bar a few idiots. Nobody in power or close to power is against them in the UK.
  • jesayajesaya Posts: 35,597
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    UIR wrote: »
    We are more likely to ban Jews than Muslims. Im sure you have noticed that a large number of people are anti semetic. Its often hidden behind "I hate Zionists, not Jews" but when challenged, they cant explain the differences.

    This is prevalent in Government and society. High profile politicians and public figures in recent months have demonstrated these anti jewish beliefs are still alive and well today.

    The Burkini ban has now been over turned so muslim women are free to continue being oppressed by muslim men. Not European laws, muslim men. So the entire premise of this thread no longer exists.

    I tell you what though, Jews can only dream of being treated how Muslims are despite the current situation in the world. Jews dont even need to attack anyone in order to have others try and wipe them out. Thats right, people dont make laws just to prevent Jews from doing certain things, they make laws to ensure jews dont exist. These laws still exist in some middle east countries, the TV stations in these places still spout long since debunked anti Jewish conspiracies. Its not just Muslims though, Christians and conspiracy theorists are just as bad.

    I have nothing but distaste for antisemitism, and have no issue with raising concerns about that as well. However this thread is about the risk presented to a different group in Europe - it in no way diminishes the threat to Jewish people by comparing the risks both face as a result of their religion/culture.
  • Rik PianaRik Piana Posts: 360
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    UIR wrote: »
    Muslims have it better here than they do in the middle east.

    So because Muslims get attacked in the UK, it's ok because they're not in the Middle East? :confused:
  • jesayajesaya Posts: 35,597
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    Surethey are.

    :D:D:D:D:D

    I have no idea what you mean by this, so can only assume you don't wish to address any points in my answer.
  • DianaFireDianaFire Posts: 12,711
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    I used to hang around with a girl from an Irish family, they had elocution lessons to hide their origins :(. I can also recall the "no Irish signs".

    When we were little we were schooled by my mother to tell people we were English, while the school itself, quite innocently, taught us we were the same nationality as our parents. Bit confusing, tbh. Mum was just concerned for our safety. There are thugs in every generation.
  • whitecliffewhitecliffe Posts: 12,013
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    gerryman62 wrote: »
    the irish were treated badly in the seventies in uk could not even get room to rent and suffered daily harassment

    This is true, also black and gay people equally suffer discrimination, verbal and physical abuse, more so in the past but it does continue today. I have never seen this being associated with the treatment of Jew in Germany and somehow leading to holocaust.
  • Deep PurpleDeep Purple Posts: 63,255
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    jesaya wrote: »
    I have nothing but distaste for antisemitism, and have no issue with raising concerns about that as well. However this thread is about the risk presented to a different group in Europe - it in no way diminishes the threat to Jewish people by comparing the risks both face as a result of their religion/culture.

    I think the reaction by some to muslims is because of the actions of a large minority of muslims around the world, rather than simply their religion.

    France has suffered badly over the last year or so, and it is not surprising to see them reacting, sometimes in an over the top, and non proportionate fashion.

    They have no idea how many of the enemy within are there, and nor do we, but there are constant incidents taking place, which will put people on edge, and cause over reactions, which is part of the intent.
  • ResonanceResonance Posts: 16,638
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    Zangief wrote: »
    we as civilians do no such thing it is they as civilians who go around terrorising and killing us for as little as drawing a picture of the prophet.
    the whole premise of the op is wrong, can someone find the true stats? i'm sure far more muslims are killing us than we are killing them. a muslim man in the uk was even convicted of killing another muslim guy because he was of the wrong 'sect'. in the west how much religious violence from other faiths are we seeing compared to that from islam? islam is about power and domination over everyone

    Well yes I meant we as in the UK. That's why I mentioned our allies.

    My point is really if we hadn't gone round the world invading countries, stirring the shit and then leaving a massive power vacuum, while killing hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women and children we might not be where we are today. The problem is we never learn......Libya/Syria.

    We and our allies (as countries) have killed many more innocent civilians in the Middle East than the likes of ISIS could ever dream of doing in Europe.
  • jesayajesaya Posts: 35,597
    Forum Member
    I think the reaction by some to muslims is because of the actions of a large minority of muslims around the world, rather than simply their religion.

    France has suffered badly over the last year or so, and it is not surprising to see them reacting, sometimes in an over the top, and non proportionate fashion.

    They have no idea how many of the enemy within are there, and nor do we, but there are constant incidents taking place, which will put people on edge, and cause over reactions, which is part of the intent.

    Understanding that people will react like that and being concerned about whether politicians should indulge it are two different things though, aren't they. I am concerned about escalating terrorism AND draconian responses that impact on the uninvolved. Both are dangerous and both can lead to situations that impact everyone, Muslim or not.
  • UIRUIR Posts: 2,081
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    Rik Piana wrote: »
    So because Muslims get attacked in the UK, it's ok because they're not in the Middle East? :confused:

    Which Muslims are being attacked. Are you referring to isolated incidents.
    In that case, should everyone be worried as just about every race, faith, political following and the rest gets attacked.

    Are we all facing a holocaust?
  • MrQuikeMrQuike Posts: 18,175
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    DianaFire wrote: »
    40+ years ago some English yobs would bomb Irish businesses. Friends of our family had a bomb thrown into their house. Back then Irish people wouldn't report much to the police since anti-Irish sentiment was pretty widespread.

    Good job the TV crew wasn't allowed into the pub after the Birmingham Pub bombings to film the dead and dying at the scene, in the naive hope from someone who was there, that the IRA would see the consequences of their actions. The police were right, the reprisals would have been extreme.
  • anne_666anne_666 Posts: 72,891
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    Rik Piana wrote: »
    Hatred against the average Muslim is at an all-time high. More Muslim women are being attacked purely for what they wear by cowardly Islamophobic scum :mad:

    Even Muslim children aren't safe:
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/british-muslim-school-children-suffering-a-backlash-of-abuse-following-paris-attacks-9999393.html

    Yes, it's shocking that anyone believes all Muslims deserve to be treated like dirt, just in case.
  • DianaFireDianaFire Posts: 12,711
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    MrQuike wrote: »
    Good job the TV crew wasn't allowed into the pub after the Birmingham Pub bombings to film the dead and dying at the scene, in the naive hope from someone who was there, that the IRA would see the consequences of their actions. The police were right, the reprisals would have been extreme.

    I doubt that distressing the families of the wounded by broadcasting their loved ones dead and dying would have been the kindest move.
  • tour de forcetour de force Posts: 4,029
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    jesaya wrote: »
    I have no idea what you mean by this, so can only assume you don't wish to address any points in my answer.

    Pease don't assume my reply wasn't addressing your "points". I simply found them risible and missing my point. However, I have added to my post to appease you. :)
  • MinnieMinzMinnieMinz Posts: 4,052
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    I think the reaction by some to muslims is because of the actions of a large minority of muslims around the world, rather than simply their religion.

    France has suffered badly over the last year or so, and it is not surprising to see them reacting, sometimes in an over the top, and non proportionate fashion.

    They have no idea how many of the enemy within are there, and nor do we, but there are constant incidents taking place, which will put people on edge, and cause over reactions, which is part of the intent.

    The intent is to bring fear and they're succeeding. I like to believe the world will never allow another holocaust but when you see it happening in Africa we tend to just flick the news channel over. I don't believe Muslims are suffering in the way the Jews did. Some Muslim hardliners demanding sharia law, ISIS, daesh etc are terrorising the world and that is why the world is reacting. I don't recall the Jews terrorising anyone in Nazi Germany.
  • bluebladeblueblade Posts: 88,859
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    DianaFire wrote: »
    40+ years ago some English yobs would bomb Irish businesses. Friends of our family had a bomb thrown into their house. Back then Irish people wouldn't report much to the police since anti-Irish sentiment was pretty widespread.

    Are you sure they were English yobs, and not Irish/Northern Irish yobs of the opposite persuasion to your friends?

    Where was this by the way, and what month and year? Was anybody hurt/killed? Did it make it to the media, as obviously others in the street would have realised what went on.

    Bit more detail and it could possibly be looked up.
  • KruleKrule Posts: 365
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    jesaya wrote: »
    I have nothing but distaste for antisemitism, and have no issue with raising concerns about that as well. However this thread is about the risk presented to a different group in Europe - it in no way diminishes the threat to Jewish people by comparing the risks both face as a result of their religion/culture.

    Completely agree
  • bluebladeblueblade Posts: 88,859
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    MinnieMinz wrote: »
    The intent is to bring fear and they're succeeding. I like to believe the world will never allow another holocaust but when you see it happening in Africa we tend to just flick the news channel over. I don't believe Muslims are suffering in the way the Jews did. Some Muslim hardliners demanding sharia law, ISIS, daesh etc are terrorising the world and that is why the world is reacting. I don't recall the Jews terrorising anyone in Nazi Germany.

    Quite the reverse in fact. They were cowed into almost complete submission. Quite a contrast to modern day muslims.
  • Rik PianaRik Piana Posts: 360
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    Rik Piana wrote: »
    So because Muslims get attacked in the UK, it's ok because they're not in the Middle East? :confused:
    UIR wrote: »
    Which Muslims are being attacked. Are you referring to isolated incidents. ?

    Not isolated incidents but regular occurrences by racist Islamophobic scum:
    LONDON // Incidents of anti-Muslim hatred in the UK increased by more than 300% in 2015, according to a report by an organisation that monitors Islamophobia in collaboration with police.

    http://www.thenational.ae/world/europe/anti-muslim-attacks-surge-in-britain
  • UIRUIR Posts: 2,081
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    Rik Piana wrote: »
    Not isolated incidents but regular occurrences by racist Islamophobic scum:

    Anti-Muslim attacks surge in Britain



    http://www.thenational.ae/world/europe/anti-muslim-attacks-surge-in-britain

    300%.

    From 5 to 15 basically.

    also, the most violent attacks in recent times against Muslims were committed by.....you guessed it, Muslims. Not many 'Islamophobic scum' travel 200 miles to kill some because theyre the wrong type of muslim.
  • MinnieMinzMinnieMinz Posts: 4,052
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    blueblade wrote: »
    Quite the reverse in fact. They were cowed into almost complete submission. Quite a contrast to modern day muslims.

    Especially the very vocal hardliners and radicals who are allowed to preach hate about non muslims.
  • bluebladeblueblade Posts: 88,859
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    Rik Piana wrote: »
    Not isolated incidents but regular occurrences by racist Islamophobic scum:



    http://www.thenational.ae/world/europe/anti-muslim-attacks-surge-in-britain

    This bit is interesting, and surprised me. Although account must be taken of their immaturity, and I'd bet that the overwhelming majority is online abuse:-
    The most prolific abusers were young people between the ages of 13 and 18 years old, the report found, which was “worrying considering that many opinion polls demonstrate that those in this age group are less likely than older people to harbour racist, xenophobic, and anti-Muslim sentiments". The findings suggested that “some teenagers are being radicalised and are moving away from the mainstream views of their age group".

    Of course "being radicalised" is a term we hear in association with young ISIS sympathisers. So who precisely is radicalising these individuals?
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