Legends of Tomorrow - US Pace - Spoilers tagged

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  • CorwinCorwin Posts: 16,588
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    Even if they can't kill him he takes time to heal.

    Why note just have Heatwave burn him to ash (Firestorm could to but he may hold back Heatwave would like doing it) that should take quite some time to heal from.


    To capture him Cold could freeze him even when Kendra had to kill him they would only have to remove the ice say around his heart.

    Or why not take the whole team back to 1700 BC an hour after Rip tried to kill him previously. He's not immortal at that point so a killing blow from any member of the team will finish him off for good.

    It would of course make major changes to the timeline not least wiping Hawkman and Girl from existence as the originals would probably just have died for good in the meteor strike.
  • CadivaCadiva Posts: 18,409
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    Shawn_Lunn wrote: »
    Mixing and splitting up the teams each week really works in this show's favour and so far is keeping the dynamics pretty fresh as well.

    Totally agree. I am thoroughly enjoying everything about this show even the suspension of disbelief which is required for the timey wimey stuff.
    There's been some absolutely fabulous use of music so far, the various pairing dynamics work really well and they're mixing them up to stop it being stale and they all work really well.
    Sara works brilliantly with anyone, her character is an absolute gem. Ray and Prof Stein were great on the science versus emotion stuff this week and Captain Cold, Heatwave and Jax had an interesting little side adventure which demonstrated that sometimes you can't actually alter the past.

    I like that we got more background to Rip's own story and how he'd tried and failed to kill Vandal Savage before. I'm glad we're making another time jump though and they remembered they needed to get the dagger for Kendra to be able to end him permanently.

    I'm giving it an 8 out of 10.
  • Flash525Flash525 Posts: 8,862
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    Even if they can't kill him he takes time to heal.
    He doesn't heal. He is reborn, or resurrected. He was killed in the Arrow/Flash crossover, but Malcolm collected some of his ashes, and thus (somehow) brought him back, even though the insinuation (with Legends) is that he'll come back by himself somehow. If it was indeed left to Malcolm, then one must wonder if he'd have stayed dead if Malcolm hadn't collected his ashes.
  • CadivaCadiva Posts: 18,409
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    Flash525 wrote: »
    If it was indeed left to Malcolm, then one must wonder if he'd have stayed dead if Malcolm hadn't collected his ashes.

    I can't remember who actually wielded the Staff in the end but if it was either Kendra or Carter then yep, he'd have stayed dead because it was an object associated with the three of them (from memory).
  • TWSTWS Posts: 9,307
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    TBH I hadn't been enjoying this as much as I expected felt like there was something missing but really enjoyed ep 4ho it ends on a bit of a cliffhanger I suppose. Enjoying Cold probably the best
  • SattregaSattrega Posts: 85,046
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    Really liking this format of switching up the various groups and letting us see the different interactions with people. Jax in particular seemed to do better playing off Cold and Heatwave than he did with Stein.

    And Stein himself has a great rapport with Ray. I like the way Stein continues to manipulate people's emotions without a second thought.

    Just adore Sara. I really liked her on Arrow but I love her here. Caity's been able to bring a lightness to her role here that she never did there, while continuing to struggle with her demons.

    And we got the Superman & Batman reference that was in the trailer for the show. Top stuff!
  • Eve ElleEve Elle Posts: 6,507
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    Sattrega wrote: »
    And we got the Superman & Batman reference that was in the trailer for the show. Top stuff!

    In the episode five trailer?

    Anyways, DC's LoT is actually pretty good. It's a lot of fun with good character interaction, nice action sequences and a wildly ambitious theme (time travelling super hero group ;)). Thought the blood drinking ritual was a bit too much and would prefer if they kept it more "family friendly", but that's a minor criticism. Yeah, I guess it does require some suspension of disbelief, but I find all super hero shows and movies do to an extent.
  • Alien28Alien28 Posts: 1,382
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    Flash525 wrote: »
    Curious too, save them killing Savage each episode, wouldn't it just make more sense for them to capture him? Lock him away in a vault (surely that timeship has a secure area?) and then just let Kendra do her thing?

    Maybe I've been watching too much supernatural over the years but u did wonder if they could just cut off his head and put it in a box and tie up his body for food measure!
  • James FrederickJames Frederick Posts: 53,184
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    Flash525 wrote: »
    He doesn't heal. He is reborn, or resurrected. He was killed in the Arrow/Flash crossover, but Malcolm collected some of his ashes, and thus (somehow) brought him back, even though the insinuation (with Legends) is that he'll come back by himself somehow. If it was indeed left to Malcolm, then one must wonder if he'd have stayed dead if Malcolm hadn't collected his ashes.

    That was that time becuase he was took out by that staff.

    I'll rewatch but I'm sure when Rip stabbed him he said he would heal.
  • Flash525Flash525 Posts: 8,862
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    Cadiva wrote: »
    I can't remember who actually wielded the Staff in the end but if it was either Kendra or Carter then yep, he'd have stayed dead because it was an object associated with the three of them (from memory).
    Wasn't it stated that only Kendra can actually kill him?
    Sattrega wrote: »
    And we got the Superman & Batman reference that was in the trailer for the show. Top stuff!
    That we did. Shame we'll never get to see either of them on the small screen though. DC is awkward like that. Flash aside, any character going into the movies is removed from our tv screens. Deadshot, Amanda Waller, Harley Quinn, Superman, no doubt we'll never see Slade Wilson again. I fear the day they decide to bring Manhunter into the DCCU, cause we'll no doubt be waving goodbye to Hank in Supergirl when that time comes too.
    Alien28 wrote: »
    Maybe I've been watching too much supernatural over the years but u did wonder if they could just cut off his head and put it in a box and tie up his body for food measure!
    I guess that would be too simple. :p However, if his head is removed, he dies (I figure) and would be reborn like Kendra and Carter. I remain unsure just whether he's reborn, or whether he is resurrected in a more Sara-;like theme. I don't believe it has quite been established yet.

    If it is the latter though, then I can foresee an upcoming episode where they meet a child Savage, and can't bring themselves to kill an innocent child - even though they know how he'll turn out!
    That was that time becuase he was took out by that staff.

    I'll rewatch but I'm sure when Rip stabbed him he said he would heal.
    I may need to rewatch too, but I don't think it was Kendra that stopped him that time. Wasn't it Barry? Then comes the question of whether his ashes can be restored if Kendra is the one to kill him. We still don't know what Malcolm gained by restoring Savage either; surely there was something in it for him? Immortality (or extended life) maybe...
  • CadivaCadiva Posts: 18,409
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    Eve Elle wrote: »
    In the episode five trailer?.

    No in the trailer for Legends of Tomorrow when they were promoting it. The comment was made in the latest episode.
    Flash525 wrote: »
    Wasn't it stated that only Kendra can actually kill him?

    Not quite, only Kendra could kill him with the dagger because it belonged to her. Now, of course, she's the only one left who can kill him yes. Unless the find another object which belonged to Savage rather than Chay-ara or Kufu.

    I'm assuming anyone could have killed him with the Staff because it belonged to Savage himself in the past. Otherwise the owner of the object they're trying to kill him with has to do it. Or that's how I'm interpreting what they've said so far.
  • Alien28Alien28 Posts: 1,382
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    Flash525 wrote: »
    I guess that would be too simple. :p However, if his head is removed, he dies (I figure) and would be reborn like Kendra and Carter. I remain unsure just whether he's reborn, or whether he is resurrected in a more Sara-;like theme. I don't believe it has quite been established yet.

    Although, you're right, the show hasn't explicitly said that Savage is reborn/reincarnated like Kendra and Carter. The way I've understood what's been shown is that Kendra & Carter have to be killed for Savage to retain his immortality, therefore, I don't think Savage is reborn. Plus Rip did say that after he was killed with the staff, it only takes 1 cell to bring him back to life (or something to that effect).

    So, locking him up would work, but he could escape, so hence the head cutting option. Or Rip could just travel to a few seconds after Arrow/Flash killed him and pop his ashes in a box and remove him from time (I'm sure he could do that being a Master of Time or whatever!)

    This is the problem with over thinking these things. For the most part I just sit and enjoy it and try to blank my mind to the fact that they can time travel but don't seem to have the cognitive capacity to think through the many easy options they might have.
  • zwixxxzwixxx Posts: 10,295
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    re: Kendra & Carter - iiuc when either die they are reborn - does this happen immediately. And if it is immediately, with Carter dying in 1982 (right ?!) would he be reborn then or in 2016, the year his 'original' time ?
  • CadivaCadiva Posts: 18,409
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    zwixxx wrote: »
    re: Kendra & Carter - iiuc when either die they are reborn - does this happen immediately. And if it is immediately, with Carter dying in 1982 (right ?!) would he be reborn then or in 2016, the year his 'original' time ?

    It was 1975 from memory, or 76, but they haven't said how instantly they are reincarnated. I believe from my memory of the comics, which is a bit vague, that it's instantaneous which is why it allows for the fact they've been killed 207 times in 4,000 years - some lifetimes have been longer than others rather than there being a gap between them being reincarnated.

    It gives an average of just under 20 years per lifetime but some don't seem to have registered (within the comics), there's only about seven incarnations that they've written about.

    But don't take my word for it, I'm definitely not an expert on the Hawks!
  • Flash525Flash525 Posts: 8,862
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    Curious, was meant to ask this earlier but for, was episode 4 unintentionally leaked or something? I've watched it, but unless they've changed the release dates, it shoudn't be out yet.
    zwixxx wrote: »
    Kendra & Carter - iiuc when either die they are reborn - does this happen immediately. And if it is immediately, with Carter dying in 1982 (right ?!) would he be reborn then or in 2016, the year his 'original' time ?
    I've mentioned this in an earlier post:
    Flash525 wrote: »
    Egyptians (of ancient mythology) existed somewhere between 2500 and 5000 years ago, in various stages and such. Vandal Savage is said to be a 4000 year old immortal, and Carter (Hawkman) stated that Savage had killed him/them 205 times (now 206 in his case).

    A little bit of math doesn't quite add up correctly here though, because if Savage has been around for 4000 years, and has killed Hawkman (at least) 200 times, then by default, there would be a new incarnation of him (Hawkman) every 20 years, but that can't quite be the case, because surely Savage doesn't kill each incarnation within 20 years, each and every year since their first death?

    Unless at some point, he found a way to track their incarnation and from time to time, kills them as children. Either way, I suspect it's an almost instantaneous occurrence; when one incarnation dies, another is born.
  • TWSTWS Posts: 9,307
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    Flash525 wrote: »
    Curious, was meant to ask this earlier but for, was episode 4 unintentionally leaked or something? I've watched it, but unless they've changed the release dates, it shoudn't be out yet.I've mentioned this in an earlier post:

    it aired on the sunday something to do with the superbowl
  • zwixxxzwixxx Posts: 10,295
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    ^a problem with the instantaneous birthing thing, when combined with their time machine, is whatever time point they travel to, there's gonna be versions of K+C already there. What would happen if they went to 1800, found Kendra1800, then Vandal popped up and killed both Kendras at the same time, would there then be 2 new-Kendra births?
    Also if they travel to the future and meet another Carter and want to bring him onboard to complete the gang, won't the Kendra in that future time be pissed.
    And finally, if we ever get a Carter back on board, could a future story see Kendra get pregnant, they timetravel to a place for her to give birth and just as she's about to do so Vandal kills the other Kendra in that time, then we have our Kendra giving birth to the 'next' Kendra................. I'll stop now cos my brain hurts.
    Maybe the show will just avoid having them run into other versions of K+C and thus the nights are gonna be kinda lonesome for K for the rest of the show. :(
  • Flash525Flash525 Posts: 8,862
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    TWS wrote: »
    it aired on the sunday something to do with the superbowl
    Ah, makes sense.
    zwixxx wrote: »
    What would happen if they went to 1800, found Kendra1800, then Vandal popped up and killed both Kendras at the same time, would there then be 2 new-Kendra births?
    One would imagine that Kendra(s) are linked to their timeline, so if Savage killed Kendra1800, and Kendra2016, then one Kendra would be born in 1800, and another would be born in 2016 (their replacements). One would assume anyhow.
    zwixxx wrote: »
    Also if they travel to the future and meet another Carter and want to bring him onboard to complete the gang, won't the Kendra in that future time be pissed.
    This would no doubt depend on the time. If they jumped to 2036 say, and found a Cater there, by default the Kendra of 2016 would still be alive (yet not necessarily in 2036) so there wouldn't be a second Kendra to be pissed off.

    I'm expecting (if this is to be an occurrence) that the respective Kendra's would end up merging or something odd. This is the fully thing about time travel at the best of times, through continual reincarnation into the mix, and yeah, it's a cluster****.
  • CadivaCadiva Posts: 18,409
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    Flash525 wrote: »
    Curious, was meant to ask this earlier but for, was episode 4 unintentionally leaked or something? I've watched it, but unless they've changed the release dates, it shoudn't be out yet.I've mentioned this in an earlier post:

    It aired on Canadian TV as part of their Superbowl 50 lead in but it's "officially" out on Thursday as normal everywhere else. Bit of an odd thing to do but there you go.
    zwixxx wrote: »
    ^a problem with the instantaneous birthing thing, when combined with their time machine, is whatever time point they travel to, there's gonna be versions of K+C already there. :(

    Which is why I suspect they will go to the future to get their next Hawkman incarnation. Kendra doesn't remember who she is until Carter awakens her memories so I guess they'll go fetch one from before he's done that.
  • Shawn_LunnShawn_Lunn Posts: 9,353
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    Good episode but not as good as previous ones.

    I enjoyed the scenes with Cold and Ray the most and Valentina is a bit more interesting than Savage is and I did not miss seeing him this week.

    Training scenes with Sara and Kendra were great in this episode and it was nice to have the two of them finally interact.

    Some good scenes with Stein/Jackson and Rip/Heatwave this week.

    Hope the next part is better though, 7/10
  • zwixxxzwixxx Posts: 10,295
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    ^them meeting up with the 2030ish Carter does sound like the simplest thing 'storywise' to do, yup. Time travel shouldn't be so darn complicated. :p
  • CadivaCadiva Posts: 18,409
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    Shawn_Lunn wrote: »
    Good episode but not as good as previous ones.

    I enjoyed the scenes with Cold and Ray the most and Valentina is a bit more interesting than Savage is and I did not miss seeing him this week.

    Training scenes with Sara and Kendra were great in this episode and it was nice to have the two of them finally interact.

    Some good scenes with Stein/Jackson and Rip/Heatwave this week.

    Hope the next part is better though, 7/10

    Yeah I agree, the pacing felt a bit off but I guess if it's technically a two-parter with next week's episode it'll run better once they can be watched back-to-back.

    But, I do like the slow burn of the narrative arc season wise which is all building up and up towards what we hope is going to be the take down of Savage so we get these little mini interludes with the various team dynamics mixed up each week.

    I like that they have mixed up the pairings as well and we're not seeing the same guys out together all the time, although the villain and Ray does seem to be the most common and it works really well. Ray's everything Snart could have been with a different upbringing and the right focus on his technical abilities.

    One of the reviews did mention, and I now only just realised it, but we didn't have a soundtrack along tonight to one of the action sequences which is a shame as they've been absolutely brilliant. Dance of the Sugar Plum Fairy would have been perfect during the Russian lab heist! Or something while Kendra and Sara were sparring. There was plenty to choose from in the 80s!

    Nice comic book nods with the Russians though, Valentina Vostok and apparently the Russian Colonel or whatever he was who helped capture them all, is called Mikhail Arkadin :D

    I'm also liking that, so far, everything they've done has actually helped Savage instead of hindering him. I think it's a deliberate play by the show along the lines of the fact they're not Legends, they were forgotten and didn't affect the timeline much at all.
    We're seeing them unintentionally aid Savage's march towards conquering the world in the future because when we get the big pay off and they finally defeat him, it will be all the more sweeter.

    So, while it wasn't the best episode, I still thoroughly enjoyed it and it's getting a 7 out of 10.
  • ItHasPotentialItHasPotential Posts: 7,817
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    meh to the episode however the banter was bloody brilliant, cold and his puns, and ray coming away with his line "i always wanted to be a spy* which was a nod to chuck.
  • SilverCrownSilverCrown Posts: 1,766
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    Enjoyable episode! I liked Stein and Jefferson's development in this episode. It's understandable that Jefferson would still be undecided/untrusting of Stein's ideas when they merge, but I think that after this episode, they'll be a pretty good team.

    Mick was great this episode!
  • SattregaSattrega Posts: 85,046
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    Another episode that I enjoyed.

    Does Rip actually have any kind of plan with their missions? It seems like he just jumps from one idea to the other without any clarity what to do or how to do it!

    I loved seeing Mick without Snart. He had some good moments. He is also fairly competent despite his preference for mindless violence.

    Highlight was seeing Demi-Goddess Kendra vs Pit Rage Sara. I would have happily watched that showdown for a lot longer!

    "Gideon, bone me" has to be the best line from the series so far.
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