Johovah's always seemed like a Cult, they travel in big crowds then pair off to try to bring in new 'members' to believe in what they think we should believe.
I think that's classed as a Sect rather than a Cult
Faith is not the same as indoctrination. Also, cults usually tightly control their members. Most Christian churches are not that way.
Christianity doesn't really have a totalitarian society. Most churches have pastors, but they also have church boards and a lot of people have a say on how the church is run. A Pastor generally doesn't have that much power.
Again, most Christian leaders are accountable to their church boards and to the members of their church. One could argue the Pope is unaccountable. However, most Christian leaders are not.
I don't really think most Christian churches go to extreme ends to recruit people. God asks us to pay our tithes. Churches don't tell people to pay tithes or else, however.
Most churches are not wealthy in the first place. Most are just getting by. I don't think I know any wealthy pastors personally. My pastor gets a salary. Others take their salary from the offering plate. However, most don't make good money. I know a lot of churches that do benefit society. My church has Thanksgiving dinner which anybody can come to. We give away Christmas turkeys. I know my church and others have used Saturdays and Sunday afternoons to help people in our communities.
Some Christian sects meet the criteria of a cult. The vast majority do not. Also, if having a mutual faith makes a church a cult, then every church is a cult. That is not the case at all.
Not to mention they also support the local as well as wider community in the form of community projects and the like (or at least they do in my area).
I highly doubt that Scientology or other cults do that, at least without £100s to £1000s of pounds changing hands!
Not to mention they also support the local as well as wider community in the form of community projects and the like (or at least they do in my area).
I highly doubt that Scientology or other cults do that, at least without £100s to £1000s of pounds changing hands!
Under Scientology rules, all forms of charity are 'out-exchange'. In other words they can't give something for nothing.
They make a big fuss out of sending Volunteer Ministers to disaster sites such as Haiti. In reality you have a group of untrained people who head out to recruit and distribute Scientology literature. Real medical staff found themselves bumped off emergency flights to accommodate these people.
After last Summer's riots, Britis Scientologists made a show of being involved in clean-up operations. The reality was they were handing out leaflets and trying to sign up people to come into the Orgs for the infanous free stress test.
I'm not a religious person and I take a pop at Scientology all the time.
I know a cult when I see one!
No, you don't. Whether you're religious or not, you're clearly victim of cultural indoctrination.
What about scientology makes it a cult, and what about Christianity excludes it. I would be interested to know, mainly because I doubt you could give a legitimate answer.
Sure, but it doesn't mean your opinion is correct. I can't think of any Christian church which doesn't participate in charitable works for a start.
I can't think of any Scientology church that doesn't participate in charitable works.
Unless we want to split hairs on semantics, in which case we can do that, if you want. I'm happy to outline how most Christian charity is borne of self-interest and growth, rather than pure charitable giving.
Most churches have pastors, but they also have church boards and a lot of people have a say on how the church is run. A Pastor generally doesn't have that much power.
Nobody has a say, the parameters of any debate or opinion are set by the church. Go to a church and do something the church do not like, tell me then if they have a say.
Again, most Christian leaders are accountable to their church boards and to the members of their church. One could argue the Pope is unaccountable. However, most Christian leaders are not.
I don't really think most Christian churches go to extreme ends to recruit people. God asks us to pay our tithes. Churches don't tell people to pay tithes or else, however.
I do. I've seen Church indoctrination manuals, I've seen how they purposely prey on young people and coerce them into their cult.
Most churches are not wealthy in the first place. Most are just getting by. I don't think I know any wealthy pastors personally. My pastor gets a salary. Others take their salary from the offering plate. However, most don't make good money.
Probably because nobody goes to them anymore, save for the African and Eastern European immigrants, and my grandma.
My church has Thanksgiving dinner which anybody can come to. We give away Christmas turkeys. I know my church and others have used Saturdays and Sunday afternoons to help people in our communities.
And I'm sure many Scientologist churches and other cults can make the same claim. Some of the nicest people I've met have been Mormons, it doesn't change the fact they're a dangerous cult with a negative footprint on the world.
Your churches still support THE church, do they not? And it's that church which is the problem.
Some Christian sects meet the criteria of a cult. The vast majority do not. Also, if having a mutual faith makes a church a cult, then every church is a cult. That is not the case at all.
The reason Christianity is a cult is because (1) It uses psychological coercion to recruit, indoctrinate and retain its members, (2) It forms an elitist totalitarian society, (3) Its founder leader is self-appointed, dogmatic, messianic, not accountable and has charisma, (4) It believes 'the end justifies the means' in order to solicit funds and recruit people, and (5) Its wealth does not benefit its members or society
No, you don't. Whether you're religious or not, you're clearly victim of cultural indoctrination.
What about scientology makes it a cult, and what about Christianity excludes it. I would be interested to know, mainly because I doubt you could give a legitimate answer.
Can you prove that I am a victim of 'cultural indoctrination'?
I can give a logical answer, but it depends on whether you choose to ignore it or not.
From what I know, the Church of Scientology basically blackmails it's members into the cult, which forces them to give money to advance to different thetan levels.
Where does Christianity do this?
The Sea Org, where you are required to sign yourself away for 'one billion years'.
I fail to see where legitimate religions such as Christianity do this.
There have been reports of past members being stalked by the organisation, most notably seen in the 2007 BBC Panorama documentary, as well as the 2010 follow-up, 'Scientology and Me'.
Again, I fail to see a Church of England vicar hiding in a black 'pizza' van with a fat-ass satellite dish on the top of it, spying on me.
And why are Scientologists banned from viewing anything critical of the organisation anyway?
Christianity doesn't do that.
Why, if half a family decides to leave the organisation, is the other half forced to excommunicate the half of the family that
has left the organisation?
Christianity doesn't do this either.
What about the Guardian's Office? How do you justify their actions?
I don't see Christianity infiltrating companies to 'neutrilise' anti-Christian opinions.
And what about the cases, such as Lisa McPherson, Kaja Ballo? Victims of emotional and psychological torture.
I fail to see where Christianity has done this.
May I also ask whether you are a practicing Scientologist yourself?
I don't know if they've been mentioned, but the Jesus Christians are/were a cult. They appeared on the Jeremy Kyle Show ages ago. Not a very nice lot to be honest.
I think a lot prefer the term 'new religious movement'
The solar temple was a particularly strange one I think, although after speaking to a member of 'the family' about her experiences, that was pretty shocking.
The scientology/religion debate depends on your definition of religion. Using one such as Ninian Smart's suggests that it can actually be counted as a religion, it has the texts, the numbers, the buildings etc (not saying thats the best definition, but its a starting point)
Must say the NRM module has been may favorite of university so far and will probably end up my diss topic!
I can't think of any Scientology church that doesn't participate in charitable works.
Unless we want to split hairs on semantics, in which case we can do that, if you want. I'm happy to outline how most Christian charity is borne of self-interest and growth, rather than pure charitable giving.
Well I'm just going to have to challenge you to provide dox on that claim. I mean you must have access to information which wasn't forthcoming in 1999 when the 'Church' was refused chariable status here.
Really, I can't wait to hear details of all the charitable works carried out by Scientology Orgs.
The reason Christianity is a cult is because (1) It uses psychological coercion to recruit, indoctrinate and retain its members, (2) It forms an elitist totalitarian society, (3) Its founder leader is self-appointed, dogmatic, messianic, not accountable and has charisma, (4) It believes 'the end justifies the means' in order to solicit funds and recruit people, and (5) Its wealth does not benefit its members or society
!) members are free to join and leave as they wish.
2) elitist, how? Totalitarian, where?
3) thats the nature of leadership.
4) prove that assertion
5) christian aid etc.
“A major cause of mankind’s problems began 75 million years ago,” the [Los Angeles] Times wrote, when the planet Earth, then called Teegeeack, was part of a confederation of ninety planets under the leadership of a despotic ruler named Xenu. “Then, as now, the materials state, the chief problem was overpopulation.” Xenu decided “to take radical measures.” The documents explained that surplus beings were transported to volcanoes on Earth. “The documents state that H-bombs far more powerful than any in existence today were dropped on these volcanoes, destroying the people but freeing their spirits—called thetans—which attached themselves to one another in clusters.” Those spirits were “trapped in a compound of frozen alcohol and glycol,” then “implanted” with “the seed of aberrant behavior.” The Times account concluded, “When people die, these clusters attach to other humans and keep perpetuating themselves.” http://www.businessinsider.com/the-truth-about-scientology-2011-2?comments_page=2&op=1#ixzz1vHON2SM8
That is, not to put too fine a point on it, completely bonkers. Let's now go and see just who believes in that total espoo :eek:: http://www.scientology.org/
Yes that degree of violence, intimidation and outright thuggery is unacceptable and those concerned ought to have been prosecuted and jailed. That would have sent a strong message to Scientologist High Command that this type of malevolent conduct is completely unacceptable and that it will not be tolerated.
That they resort to this type of tactic in the face of criticism is a clear indication that they are a rather nasty cult founded on some very bad science fiction.
Comments
I think that's classed as a Sect rather than a Cult
Not to mention they also support the local as well as wider community in the form of community projects and the like (or at least they do in my area).
I highly doubt that Scientology or other cults do that, at least without £100s to £1000s of pounds changing hands!
They make a big fuss out of sending Volunteer Ministers to disaster sites such as Haiti. In reality you have a group of untrained people who head out to recruit and distribute Scientology literature. Real medical staff found themselves bumped off emergency flights to accommodate these people.
After last Summer's riots, Britis Scientologists made a show of being involved in clean-up operations. The reality was they were handing out leaflets and trying to sign up people to come into the Orgs for the infanous free stress test.
No, you don't. Whether you're religious or not, you're clearly victim of cultural indoctrination.
What about scientology makes it a cult, and what about Christianity excludes it. I would be interested to know, mainly because I doubt you could give a legitimate answer.
I can't think of any Scientology church that doesn't participate in charitable works.
Unless we want to split hairs on semantics, in which case we can do that, if you want. I'm happy to outline how most Christian charity is borne of self-interest and growth, rather than pure charitable giving.
Maybe not, but the Church still indoctrinates. That's indisputable.
Yes they do.
Well no, not "really", but only because we stopped you from having one.
Nobody has a say, the parameters of any debate or opinion are set by the church. Go to a church and do something the church do not like, tell me then if they have a say.
Untrue.
I do. I've seen Church indoctrination manuals, I've seen how they purposely prey on young people and coerce them into their cult.
Probably because nobody goes to them anymore, save for the African and Eastern European immigrants, and my grandma.
I don't.
And I'm sure many Scientologist churches and other cults can make the same claim. Some of the nicest people I've met have been Mormons, it doesn't change the fact they're a dangerous cult with a negative footprint on the world.
Your churches still support THE church, do they not? And it's that church which is the problem.
The reason Christianity is a cult is because (1) It uses psychological coercion to recruit, indoctrinate and retain its members, (2) It forms an elitist totalitarian society, (3) Its founder leader is self-appointed, dogmatic, messianic, not accountable and has charisma, (4) It believes 'the end justifies the means' in order to solicit funds and recruit people, and (5) Its wealth does not benefit its members or society
Can you prove that I am a victim of 'cultural indoctrination'?
I can give a logical answer, but it depends on whether you choose to ignore it or not.
From what I know, the Church of Scientology basically blackmails it's members into the cult, which forces them to give money to advance to different thetan levels.
Where does Christianity do this?
The Sea Org, where you are required to sign yourself away for 'one billion years'.
I fail to see where legitimate religions such as Christianity do this.
There have been reports of past members being stalked by the organisation, most notably seen in the 2007 BBC Panorama documentary, as well as the 2010 follow-up, 'Scientology and Me'.
Again, I fail to see a Church of England vicar hiding in a black 'pizza' van with a fat-ass satellite dish on the top of it, spying on me.
And why are Scientologists banned from viewing anything critical of the organisation anyway?
Christianity doesn't do that.
Why, if half a family decides to leave the organisation, is the other half forced to excommunicate the half of the family that
has left the organisation?
Christianity doesn't do this either.
What about the Guardian's Office? How do you justify their actions?
I don't see Christianity infiltrating companies to 'neutrilise' anti-Christian opinions.
And what about the cases, such as Lisa McPherson, Kaja Ballo? Victims of emotional and psychological torture.
I fail to see where Christianity has done this.
May I also ask whether you are a practicing Scientologist yourself?
Oh, sorry, you said cult? I misread the OP.
The solar temple was a particularly strange one I think, although after speaking to a member of 'the family' about her experiences, that was pretty shocking.
The scientology/religion debate depends on your definition of religion. Using one such as Ninian Smart's suggests that it can actually be counted as a religion, it has the texts, the numbers, the buildings etc (not saying thats the best definition, but its a starting point)
Must say the NRM module has been may favorite of university so far and will probably end up my diss topic!
Really, I can't wait to hear details of all the charitable works carried out by Scientology Orgs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlFy8KHK7K0
I'm scared.
!) members are free to join and leave as they wish.
2) elitist, how? Totalitarian, where?
3) thats the nature of leadership.
4) prove that assertion
5) christian aid etc.
Doesn't really work, does it.
Article in today's Independent about those charitable Scientologists.
“A major cause of mankind’s problems began 75 million years ago,” the [Los Angeles] Times wrote, when the planet Earth, then called Teegeeack, was part of a confederation of ninety planets under the leadership of a despotic ruler named Xenu. “Then, as now, the materials state, the chief problem was overpopulation.” Xenu decided “to take radical measures.” The documents explained that surplus beings were transported to volcanoes on Earth. “The documents state that H-bombs far more powerful than any in existence today were dropped on these volcanoes, destroying the people but freeing their spirits—called thetans—which attached themselves to one another in clusters.” Those spirits were “trapped in a compound of frozen alcohol and glycol,” then “implanted” with “the seed of aberrant behavior.” The Times account concluded, “When people die, these clusters attach to other humans and keep perpetuating themselves.”
http://www.businessinsider.com/the-truth-about-scientology-2011-2?comments_page=2&op=1#ixzz1vHON2SM8
That is, not to put too fine a point on it, completely bonkers. Let's now go and see just who believes in that total espoo :eek:: http://www.scientology.org/
Very interesting - seen the comments from the Scientologists at the bottom?
Lol they are completely nuts.
Which Squirrels like
That sounds like infiltration
Yes that degree of violence, intimidation and outright thuggery is unacceptable and those concerned ought to have been prosecuted and jailed. That would have sent a strong message to Scientologist High Command that this type of malevolent conduct is completely unacceptable and that it will not be tolerated.
That they resort to this type of tactic in the face of criticism is a clear indication that they are a rather nasty cult founded on some very bad science fiction.
Christians with nuclear weapons :eek:
Can't believe people believe in this Scientology nonsense.