Having kept such a low profile recently, I have a feeling that my pet theory will already have been proposed, dissected, disputed and discarded
John Hurt's Timelord comes BEFORE Hartnell and his actions are the reason that the Doctor chose his title and the cause for him running all these years.
So Tenant is still the Tenth Doctor AND the tenth physical form the Doctor has had
That suit you Granny?
That's is what I said months ago.
The only other alternative they could get away with is if he replaced the doctor rather then regenerated but with a face transplant or something.
I'm also going for a pre-Hartnell Doctor because of the comment Steven Moffat made in SFX this month.
He said something like "If you wanted any Doctor, you'd want to first one so he could look at these caffinated newer Doctors and say 'What have I become'".
Well William Hartnell is no longer with us but what if you add a new original Doctor. After all we never learned why The Doctor really left Gallifrey and we know that Hartnell's Doctor was quite dark to begin with. A darker Hurt Doctor would lead well into a grumpy, hermit-like Hartnell Doctor.
Perhaps the suggestion is that Hurt was the original Doctor, he did something bad (but for the right reasons), regenerated, escaped from Gallifrey to seek solitude for crimes he may have committed.
Think they they are doing a complete reboot myself.. all prev doctors prior to davids will be written off... they've already started the process with the doctors enemies forgetting who he is ...
That's not impossible, but I don't think Moffat would have gone down the road of having so many references to earlier Doctors in The Name of the Doctor if he was just going to pretend they didn't exist.
At the end of Trial of a Timelord the Valeyard escapes and hides away in Timelord society.
He is still there hundreds of years later when the Timewar breaks out. By now he has aged into looking like Hurt or has found a way to steal regenerations and has regenerated into Hurt.
To cut a long story short the 8th Doctor ends up having to work with the Valeyard to defeat the Daleks. The Timelords too need to be stopped but 8th can't bring himself to do this so it's the Valeyard who actually activates the Moment (“What I did I did without choice. In the name of peace and sanity,”) .
While the Doctor survives the Moment by regenerating the Valeyard ends up dying. The 9th Doctor takes up the Valeyards jacket to remember him by.
The Anniversary Episode takes place a few hours before the Moment is activated where the Valeyard in some timey wimey way encounters the 10th and 11th Doctors.
If this is correct it avoids any renumbering of the Doctors and also does not contradict anything that has been shown on screen.
The Valeyard is still the Doctor so will exist in the Doctors Timestream.
Though originally created in the 11th Doctors future his actions in the Timewar are in the 11th Doctors past so 11 remembers them from his time as 8.
The Doctor still feels responsible for the destruction of the Timelords even if it was the Valeyard who flipped the switch as the Valeyard is the Doctor (it just wasn't done in the name of the Doctor).
The 8th Doctor ends up having to work with the Valeyard to defeat the Daleks. The Timelords too need to be stopped but 8th can't bring himself to do this so it's the Valeyard who actually activates the Moment (“What I did I did without choice. In the name of peace and sanity,”) .
While the Doctor survives the Moment by regenerating the Valeyard ends up dying. The 9th Doctor takes up the Valeyards jacket to remember him by.
The Valeyard is still the Doctor so will exist in the Doctors Timestream.
Though originally created in the 11th Doctors future his actions in the Timewar are in the 11th Doctors past so 11 remembers them from his time as 8.
The Doctor still feels responsible for the destruction of the Timelords even if it was the Valeyard who flipped the switch as the Valeyard is the Doctor (it just wasn't done in the name of the Doctor).
This is a cool idea!
I agree that Hurt must be the Valeyard. Perhaps he will yet emerge as part of Capaldi regenerating from Smith (another great theory from another forum member!)
At the end of Trial of a Timelord the Valeyard escapes and hides away in Timelord society.
He is still there hundreds of years later when the Timewar breaks out. By now he has aged into looking like Hurt or has found a way to steal regenerations and has regenerated into Hurt.
To cut a long story short the 8th Doctor ends up having to work with the Valeyard to defeat the Daleks. The Timelords too need to be stopped but 8th can't bring himself to do this so it's the Valeyard who actually activates the Moment (“What I did I did without choice. In the name of peace and sanity,”) .
While the Doctor survives the Moment by regenerating the Valeyard ends up dying. The 9th Doctor takes up the Valeyards jacket to remember him by.
The Anniversary Episode takes place a few hours before the Moment is activated where the Valeyard in some timey wimey way encounters the 10th and 11th Doctors.
If this is correct it avoids any renumbering of the Doctors and also does not contradict anything that has been shown on screen.
The Valeyard is still the Doctor so will exist in the Doctors Timestream.
Though originally created in the 11th Doctors future his actions in the Timewar are in the 11th Doctors past so 11 remembers them from his time as 8.
The Doctor still feels responsible for the destruction of the Timelords even if it was the Valeyard who flipped the switch as the Valeyard is the Doctor (it just wasn't done in the name of the Doctor).
My first guess was Valeyard, and whilst it's still possible (there's few theories I'll rule out completely) this just sounds a little too convoluted for me.
In many discussions I've noticed that most people accept the theory that Hurt is 8.5 as fact. But nothing is confirmed yet. Maybe it's just another Moffat's bluff. He wants to surprise us. I don 't think he would let such an important fact to go public before 23rd of November. Here is one interesting article: http://www.doctorwhotv.co.uk/could-john-hurt-be-the-last-doctor-54672.htm
So, what do you think?
He's the ninth...or at least he's filling the whole in the script left when CE declined to appear...
That's a very misleading headline. He just denies the COSTUME is a patchwork of all past incarnations. Not once does he mention the Hurt Doctor's numbering/identity.
Personally, I think 8.5 is the logical, simplest explanation which will keep classic fans happy and be accepted easily by Nu-Who-only viewers (I.e. He came before Series 1/Christopher Eccleston) But then the Moff does like his timey-wimey complications so who knows...!
He's the ninth...or at least he's filling the whole in the script left when CE declined to appear...
Personally, I don't think he is. There's an interview with CE somewhere where - and this is bad paraphrasing from memory - he mentions discussing reprising the role with Moffat but ultimately deciding it wasn't worth revisiting for such a small role which didn't develop in any way. If he was originally playing the Hurt role I highly doubt he'd turn it down for those reasons given the (seemingly) importance Hurt is going to play.
I think it's more likely he was originally appearing but in a cameo capacity, with Hurt's alternate Doctor firmly scripted from the beginning.
In many discussions I've noticed that most people accept the theory that Hurt is 8.5 as fact. But nothing is confirmed yet. Maybe it's just another Moffat's bluff. He wants to surprise us. I don 't think he would let such an important fact to go public before 23rd of November. Here is one interesting article: http://www.doctorwhotv.co.uk/could-john-hurt-be-the-last-doctor-54672.htm
So, what do you think?
Im not really bothered but wish they would stop trying to rewrite history like that.
Moffat also claimed that Hurt's version of the Time Lord is a "rougher, tougher Doctor" than fans might be used to.
"It looks like somehow he's been through it a bit," he said. "This isn't a Doctor who's just appeared, he's been around, he's been in this form for a while."
Hmmmm.... definitely grew old in that body, at least...
Comments
That's is what I said months ago.
The only other alternative they could get away with is if he replaced the doctor rather then regenerated but with a face transplant or something.
Well William Hartnell is no longer with us but what if you add a new original Doctor. After all we never learned why The Doctor really left Gallifrey and we know that Hartnell's Doctor was quite dark to begin with. A darker Hurt Doctor would lead well into a grumpy, hermit-like Hartnell Doctor.
Perhaps the suggestion is that Hurt was the original Doctor, he did something bad (but for the right reasons), regenerated, escaped from Gallifrey to seek solitude for crimes he may have committed.
That's my guesswork anyway
That's not impossible, but I don't think Moffat would have gone down the road of having so many references to earlier Doctors in The Name of the Doctor if he was just going to pretend they didn't exist.
At the end of Trial of a Timelord the Valeyard escapes and hides away in Timelord society.
He is still there hundreds of years later when the Timewar breaks out. By now he has aged into looking like Hurt or has found a way to steal regenerations and has regenerated into Hurt.
To cut a long story short the 8th Doctor ends up having to work with the Valeyard to defeat the Daleks. The Timelords too need to be stopped but 8th can't bring himself to do this so it's the Valeyard who actually activates the Moment (“What I did I did without choice. In the name of peace and sanity,”) .
While the Doctor survives the Moment by regenerating the Valeyard ends up dying. The 9th Doctor takes up the Valeyards jacket to remember him by.
The Anniversary Episode takes place a few hours before the Moment is activated where the Valeyard in some timey wimey way encounters the 10th and 11th Doctors.
If this is correct it avoids any renumbering of the Doctors and also does not contradict anything that has been shown on screen.
This is a cool idea!
I agree that Hurt must be the Valeyard. Perhaps he will yet emerge as part of Capaldi regenerating from Smith (another great theory from another forum member!)
That makes sense one of the best theories Ive seen on here so far!
My first guess was Valeyard, and whilst it's still possible (there's few theories I'll rule out completely) this just sounds a little too convoluted for me.
http://www.doctorwhotv.co.uk/moffat-rules-out-8-5-hurt-doctor-54862.htm
He's the ninth...or at least he's filling the whole in the script left when CE declined to appear...
That's a very misleading headline. He just denies the COSTUME is a patchwork of all past incarnations. Not once does he mention the Hurt Doctor's numbering/identity.
Personally, I think 8.5 is the logical, simplest explanation which will keep classic fans happy and be accepted easily by Nu-Who-only viewers (I.e. He came before Series 1/Christopher Eccleston) But then the Moff does like his timey-wimey complications so who knows...!
Personally, I don't think he is. There's an interview with CE somewhere where - and this is bad paraphrasing from memory - he mentions discussing reprising the role with Moffat but ultimately deciding it wasn't worth revisiting for such a small role which didn't develop in any way. If he was originally playing the Hurt role I highly doubt he'd turn it down for those reasons given the (seemingly) importance Hurt is going to play.
I think it's more likely he was originally appearing but in a cameo capacity, with Hurt's alternate Doctor firmly scripted from the beginning.
Im not really bothered but wish they would stop trying to rewrite history like that.
Especially when they have some available loose ends they can use to put together a compelling story.
Faux Doctor 10 (the "human" Doctor that stayed with Rose) grows a new Tardis and leaves his pocket dimension.
Grows old, as one does, and gets into mischief. Does not realise that he is being drawn into the Time War until too late...
So no need to use McGann's Doctor at all... (what is it with the desire to exclude McGann's Doctor, even from the Time War?)
"It looks like somehow he's been through it a bit," he said. "This isn't a Doctor who's just appeared, he's been around, he's been in this form for a while."
Hmmmm.... definitely grew old in that body, at least...