Do the majority identify as Scots then? Alas the same could be said of Corby but guess what, it's in England too and the referendum is only for those in Scotland.
I am talking about a referendum in Berwick on them rejoining Scotland, Corby can have one as well. It would be nice to have a Scottish enclave in the rUK
Because it's not Scottish. Orkney and Shetland should rejoin Norway under your logic.
But they are not Norwegian. They do not play football in Norway and are not linked to Norway in any meaningful sense. Berwick has strong claims to being Scottish.
Does Shetland play football in Norway? Does Norway have a Shetlandshire? I think not?
Why are you afraid to give people in Berwick the right to decide what country they should be in?
Berwick remained a county in its own right, and was not included in Northumberland for Parliamentary purposes until 1885. In the same year, the Redistribution of Seats Act reduced the number of Members of Parliament (MPs) returned by the town from two to one.
From wiki
The borough was formed on 1 April 1974 by the merger of the previous borough of Berwick-upon-Tweed with Belford Rural District, Glendale Rural District and Norham and Islandshires Rural District.
"In 2009, the Borough of Berwick-upon-Tweed was abolished as part of wider structural changes to local government in England. All functions previously exercised by Berwick Borough Council were transferred to Northumberland County Council, which is the unitary authority for the area."
continues
"The Borough of Berwick-upon-Tweed was abolished on 1 April 2009. From that date, Northumberland County Council assumed its functions, and those of the other districts in its area, to become a unitary authority."
"A new Berwick-upon-Tweed Town Council, a parish council, has been created covering Berwick-upon-Tweed, Tweedmouth and Spittal. It is expected to take over the former Borough's mayoralty and regalia."
Scotland and Scots have had far more influence on the world than any equally sized nation. From education to engineering and invention to politics we have contributed more by being in the Union.
We've been at the forefront or world thinking from Hume to Smith, from Macadam to Watt and Scots engineers and scientists continue in this vain today.
But Scotland would have had that influence without the Union. Until 1560, for example....Scots were also entitled to French citizenship, due to the "Auld Alliance" and, being excluded from trade with England, were more active on the Continent....and had much influence there. There were large numbers of Scots in Rotterdam, in Poland and in France etc...as settlers, scholars,traders and mercenary soldiers, who often fought against England in the armies of England's enemies. Hence the Russian poet Lermontov is descended from a Scots soldier who went to Poland and Russia in the early 17th Century..and Patrick Gordon, Peter the Great's adviser, was a soldier who hailed from Aberdeen.
The Union didn't set up the Calvinist Church of Scotland., or the Scottish education system , or the four Scottish Universities, (when England had only two). and all of those were influenced by the European connection and nothing at all to do with England. In fact, by the end of the 19th Century, it was still the case that Scots were better educated, with one in 200 Scots getting a secondary education, compared to one in 1300 in England.
Even after the Union, Scots did not all join in Britain's Imperial excursions.....but continued to make lives for themselves in Europe......Scots like Samuel Greig, who created the Russian Navy, which had mainly Scottish Officers.
However, while the Union was certainly beneficial for many individuals, it did little for the majority of Scots, bar continue to involve large numbers of them in wars and incursions into foreign lands to create the Empire. In 1707, Scotland had one fifth of the population of England...between 1904-1913 and 1921 -1930, nearly 550,000 Scots emigrated......one-fifth of the total working population........and .after 300 years of the Union, Scotland now has less than one tenth of England's population......is that really a success story for which the Union deserves praise?
My wife will be due a pension and she just wants to know what currency it will be paid in and will it be reduced! Why can nobody from the SNP answer these basic questions !
All she and her colleagues know is that it isnt going to be in Sterling so come on, spill the beans.
That's a serious issue, and you would expect the SNP to state clearly what would happen. Instead they just keep repeating what they know to be a fantasy, that rUK is bluffing when it says no CU. Politicians, none of any good, either side of the border.
"J. Macpherson, published in Scottish Field in 1967, says Dr Talbott, showed that France refused to accept Westminster’s abrogation of the Scottish side of the Auld Alliance in 1906, following the Entente Cordiale between Britain and France. By French law, a Scotsman born before 1907 still possesses the full rights and privileges of Franco-Scottish nationality."
So if people are arguing that Berwick should be given a vote to rejoin Scotland, should Edinburgh be given a vote to rejoin England like it was in 1237?
Orkney and Shetland aren't in a political union with Scotland. They are a part of Scotland. So while some supporters of independence may or may not support a further referendum for Orkney and Shetland others may not. Supporting ending a political arrangement with England does not automatically mean one should support secession for the Northern Isles, Western Isles or any other part of our country.
You're being pedantic. But, if you want to discuss these relationships, Scotland joined England and co by consent, the Orkneys and Shetlands were sold to Scotland by a Norwegian king. Some would say that gives them a stronger case for independence than Scotland.
That's a serious issue, and you would expect the SNP to state clearly what would happen. Instead they just keep repeating what they know to be a fantasy, that rUK is bluffing when it says no CU. Politicians, none of any good, either side of the border.
We will, after Independence, be using sterling.
Maybe not in a currency Union, but I have a bet going elsewhere that there will at least be negotiations on one, even if it doesn't happen in the end........but we will still be using sterling, in the short/medium term at least. What else did anyone think we'd use?
Who knows what might happen if the Nats win. Due to the great uncertainty and possibly social unrest, more than one region bordering the UK may decide to stay a part of it for the stability it provides The most likely part of Scotland to hold a snap referenfum vote and devide to stay in the UK is The Shetlands. The Shetlanders are in a very strong position and nobody is going to argue with them if the chose this path.
I'm not saying take it with us but as polls have shown that the vast majority of people in Berwick upon Tweed wish to be part of Scotland, do they not have a right to decide to join us if they wish?
The name "Orkney" dates back to the 1st century BC or earlier, and the islands have been inhabited for at least 8,500 years. Originally occupied by Mesolithic and Neolithic tribes and then by the Picts, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orkney
Actually you think wrong, There was no such thing as Scotland in neolithic times.:D
Maybe not in a currency Union, but I have a bet going elsewhere that there will at least be negotiations on one, even if it doesn't happen in the end........but we will still be using sterling, in the short/medium term at least. What else did anyone think we'd use?
I doubt Salmond will go down that route in fact ime certain of it . He called Sterling a second rate currency and a millstone around Scotlands neck.
You're being pedantic. But, if you want to discuss these relationships, Scotland joined England and co by consent, the Orkneys and Shetlands were sold to Scotland by a Norwegian king. Some would say that gives them a stronger case for independence than Scotland.
Nah.....Scotland did not join the Union by mutual consent.....of the populations of either country. Scotland joined the Union because of the Alien Act 1705 and the back-handers to some members of the Scottish Parliament, who were making sure they'd be OK...so not a lot different to Orkney and Shetland, really.
You're being pedantic. But, if you want to discuss these relationships, Scotland joined England and co by consent, the Orkneys and Shetlands were sold to Scotland by a Norwegian king. Some would say that gives them a stronger case for independence than Scotland.
Usually British Nationalists outside of the Northern Isles.
I doubt Salmond will go down that route in fact ime certain of it . He called Sterling a second rate currency and a millstone around Scotlands neck.
He called sterling with no monetary policy input from anyone but Westminster working for London and the South that. Nothing wrong with sterling as a currency......and even without a currency Union, we would have more control of our economy than we have had for the last 307 years.
Personally, I'm not for a Currency Union at all....but anything decided before 2016 can be changed if the Government changes after Independence. Nothing Governments decide are ever set in stone.
However, I have only bet there will be negotiations..not that it would happen after negotiations..that would kinda depend on the terms.
"Mr Hill, who represented himself in the case, has claimed for years that Shetland is not legally part of the UK and has repeatedly tried to provoke the authorities into taking action against him. Lord Pentland dismissed Mr Hill’s claim that, because he was a Shetland resident, the courts had no authority over him.
The judgement rejected Mr Hill’s arguments – outlined in an “analysis” of more than 70 pages – by pointing to two legal precedents setting out that after 1468 the right of sovereignty over the islands belonged to the monarchs of Scotland and later the monarchs of the United Kingdom.
“As to the historical background, it seems to me that it must now be regarded as settled in law that Shetland forms part of the United Kingdom and lies within the territorial jurisdiction of the Court of Session,” Lord Pentland wrote."
The German king in Britain had his bags packed and ready to go and the impact of that war on the Gaels was massive so it's not something to be dismissed as nothing. The whole of Scotland could be fighting against England and still the majority of the UK would be united against it. The rebellion we're seeing in Scotland just now has a majority of people in the UK united against but the same cannot yet be said of Scotland. That is the nature of this unbalanced union. Also never forget the disproportionate amount of Scots that die when Westminster decides to send us off to war. This Union has not been a time of peace by any means. We've been dragged into war after war.
You weren't all peace loving hippies before the Union!
Well you think wrong, the vikings integrated across Scotland and the Isles. Out of interest my family lineage is from the Western Isles and our Clan is meant to be of viking descent. Can I claim Norwegian citizenship? I love Scotland and I'm proud to fight for independence but if there was a chance I could claim Norwegian citizenship and take the Western Isles under Oslo's control I'd turn my back on you Scottish black-necks so quick it would make your heads spin. What's the chances? Should all island that were settled by the vikings be looking to join Norway?
Comments
I am talking about a referendum in Berwick on them rejoining Scotland, Corby can have one as well. It would be nice to have a Scottish enclave in the rUK
But they are not Norwegian. They do not play football in Norway and are not linked to Norway in any meaningful sense. Berwick has strong claims to being Scottish.
and following on from the above..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berwick-upon-Tweed_(borough)
Borough of Berwick-upon-Tweed
The borough was formed on 1 April 1974 by the merger of the previous borough of Berwick-upon-Tweed with Belford Rural District, Glendale Rural District and Norham and Islandshires Rural District.
then
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berwick-upon-Tweed
"In 2009, the Borough of Berwick-upon-Tweed was abolished as part of wider structural changes to local government in England. All functions previously exercised by Berwick Borough Council were transferred to Northumberland County Council, which is the unitary authority for the area."
continues
"The Borough of Berwick-upon-Tweed was abolished on 1 April 2009. From that date, Northumberland County Council assumed its functions, and those of the other districts in its area, to become a unitary authority."
"A new Berwick-upon-Tweed Town Council, a parish council, has been created covering Berwick-upon-Tweed, Tweedmouth and Spittal. It is expected to take over the former Borough's mayoralty and regalia."
fait accompli?
Don't count on it.
But Scotland would have had that influence without the Union. Until 1560, for example....Scots were also entitled to French citizenship, due to the "Auld Alliance" and, being excluded from trade with England, were more active on the Continent....and had much influence there. There were large numbers of Scots in Rotterdam, in Poland and in France etc...as settlers, scholars,traders and mercenary soldiers, who often fought against England in the armies of England's enemies. Hence the Russian poet Lermontov is descended from a Scots soldier who went to Poland and Russia in the early 17th Century..and Patrick Gordon, Peter the Great's adviser, was a soldier who hailed from Aberdeen.
The Union didn't set up the Calvinist Church of Scotland., or the Scottish education system , or the four Scottish Universities, (when England had only two). and all of those were influenced by the European connection and nothing at all to do with England. In fact, by the end of the 19th Century, it was still the case that Scots were better educated, with one in 200 Scots getting a secondary education, compared to one in 1300 in England.
Even after the Union, Scots did not all join in Britain's Imperial excursions.....but continued to make lives for themselves in Europe......Scots like Samuel Greig, who created the Russian Navy, which had mainly Scottish Officers.
However, while the Union was certainly beneficial for many individuals, it did little for the majority of Scots, bar continue to involve large numbers of them in wars and incursions into foreign lands to create the Empire. In 1707, Scotland had one fifth of the population of England...between 1904-1913 and 1921 -1930, nearly 550,000 Scots emigrated......one-fifth of the total working population........and .after 300 years of the Union, Scotland now has less than one tenth of England's population......is that really a success story for which the Union deserves praise?
That's a serious issue, and you would expect the SNP to state clearly what would happen. Instead they just keep repeating what they know to be a fantasy, that rUK is bluffing when it says no CU. Politicians, none of any good, either side of the border.
you've reminded me of an article I posted on this thread ages ago..
http://www.manchester.ac.uk/aboutus/news/archive/list/item/?id=7313
"J. Macpherson, published in Scottish Field in 1967, says Dr Talbott, showed that France refused to accept Westminster’s abrogation of the Scottish side of the Auld Alliance in 1906, following the Entente Cordiale between Britain and France. By French law, a Scotsman born before 1907 still possesses the full rights and privileges of Franco-Scottish nationality."
You're being pedantic. But, if you want to discuss these relationships, Scotland joined England and co by consent, the Orkneys and Shetlands were sold to Scotland by a Norwegian king. Some would say that gives them a stronger case for independence than Scotland.
We will, after Independence, be using sterling.
Maybe not in a currency Union, but I have a bet going elsewhere that there will at least be negotiations on one, even if it doesn't happen in the end........but we will still be using sterling, in the short/medium term at least. What else did anyone think we'd use?
And those in Orkney and Shetland?
Will be one of the things up for negotiation I imagine.
Actually you think wrong, There was no such thing as Scotland in neolithic times.:D
I doubt Salmond will go down that route in fact ime certain of it . He called Sterling a second rate currency and a millstone around Scotlands neck.
Nah.....Scotland did not join the Union by mutual consent.....of the populations of either country. Scotland joined the Union because of the Alien Act 1705 and the back-handers to some members of the Scottish Parliament, who were making sure they'd be OK...so not a lot different to Orkney and Shetland, really.
Shetland and Orkney are already a part of Scotland, they don't need to vote to join anymore than the people of Galloway do.
Neither was the sale of Shetland and Orkney to Scotland.
Usually British Nationalists outside of the Northern Isles.
I think they were all wiped out by the Vikings.
He called sterling with no monetary policy input from anyone but Westminster working for London and the South that. Nothing wrong with sterling as a currency......and even without a currency Union, we would have more control of our economy than we have had for the last 307 years.
Personally, I'm not for a Currency Union at all....but anything decided before 2016 can be changed if the Government changes after Independence. Nothing Governments decide are ever set in stone.
However, I have only bet there will be negotiations..not that it would happen after negotiations..that would kinda depend on the terms.
"Mr Hill, who represented himself in the case, has claimed for years that Shetland is not legally part of the UK and has repeatedly tried to provoke the authorities into taking action against him. Lord Pentland dismissed Mr Hill’s claim that, because he was a Shetland resident, the courts had no authority over him.
The judgement rejected Mr Hill’s arguments – outlined in an “analysis” of more than 70 pages – by pointing to two legal precedents setting out that after 1468 the right of sovereignty over the islands belonged to the monarchs of Scotland and later the monarchs of the United Kingdom.
“As to the historical background, it seems to me that it must now be regarded as settled in law that Shetland forms part of the United Kingdom and lies within the territorial jurisdiction of the Court of Session,” Lord Pentland wrote."
You weren't all peace loving hippies before the Union!
Well you think wrong, the vikings integrated across Scotland and the Isles. Out of interest my family lineage is from the Western Isles and our Clan is meant to be of viking descent. Can I claim Norwegian citizenship? I love Scotland and I'm proud to fight for independence but if there was a chance I could claim Norwegian citizenship and take the Western Isles under Oslo's control I'd turn my back on you Scottish black-necks so quick it would make your heads spin. What's the chances? Should all island that were settled by the vikings be looking to join Norway?
Don't dismiss it