Lol...I don`t think many will speak highly of him...I suppose his reputation has ensured he is still one of the most famous historical figuers throughout the World.
What we do need to remember though is that he lived in a different era from us,...an era with differing beliefs and values...We have to judge and compare his character and actions with that of his contemporaries...rather than with those of today
I eventually managed to get my act together and watch "The last Days of Anne Boleyn" last night....it was first shown on the BBC a few weeks ago...It`s not on the i-player but I found it on YT
Although I`d consider myself to be reasonably familiar with Tudor history and in particular the story of Anne Boleyn..I was surprised to learn how quickly she lost favour with Henry...I`d always assumed it was a relatively slow break down in their relationship and was totally unaware that despite the strains between them Henry had "fixed" a very brief meeting with the Imperial Ambassador...The aim of which was to secure an acknowledgement of Anne`s position as Henry`s rightful Queen...This meeting took place a mere 2wks before her arrest..So one would assume she was in his good books at the time
The programme did make me think there may have been some truth in the allegations against Anne..I`d always thought she`d been set up by Cromwell or that Henry was determined to Marry Jane Seymour come what may...If you have`t seen the program it`s well worth putting aside an hour to watch it.
edit...another interesting point was according to the Historians interviewed in the program, torture was in fact quite rare during Henry`s reign...So it appears the constant portrayal of torture in the Tudors may be another case of excessive artistic license
I got the impression it was a case of he got what he wanted in "having her" and that was it after that. He could never stay faithfull in any case with any of his wives it seems either.
Having said that, there was one episode where she was in bed with another man too, who was that and was he one of the guys executed for sleeping with her?
I got the impression it was a case of he got what he wanted in "having her" and that was it after that. He could never stay faithfull in any case with any of his wives it seems either.
Having said that, there was one episode where she was in bed with another man too, who was that and was he one of the guys executed for sleeping with her?
This was a recurrent dream sequence...I think it was Thomas Wyatt...he was rumoured to have had an affair with Anne Boleyn before she met Henry...This rumour may well have been true and rather perversly he was the only suspect arrested for alledgedly having sex with Anne who was freed...the others of course lost their heads.
Its a slightly lesser punishment, death by Axe very messy sometimes it goes wrong and you need a few swings at it, Death by sword is quicker usually by single swing and shows henry still liked Anne enough to give her that.
Think the rank of Death penalty goes.
Burning for heretics.
Hang Drawn and quatered for very severe wrong doing such as rebellion and treason.
Hanging mostly for common people
Death by Axe mostly for upper classes
Death by Sword mostly for Royalty anf the upper Nobility.
This was a recurrent dream sequence...I think it was Thomas Wyatt...he was rumoured to have had an affair with Anne Boleyn before she met Henry...This rumour may well have been true and rather perversly he was the only suspect arrested for alledgedly having sex with Anne who was freed...the others of course lost their heads.
Well, he was a very good friend of Cromwell. No surprises he got let off - despite him having been the only one to have competed with the King for Anne in the 1520s.
It's also likely that Wyatt and Page (another accused) were let off in order to make those who were executed look more guilty and to make justice appear to be done. Cromwell, even as Wyatt was in the Tower, was happily assuring his father that no harm would come to him, which rather suggests it was all for show.
I love Katherine Howard! She's a breath of fresh air. I love how she has an innocence about her but isn't really innocent by nature, just young and naive I guess.
Thomas Cromwells execution was shown to be a bit of a messy one in this series. Does anyone know how accurate that was?
In one of the documentaries that have been on for the BBC Tudor season in the past couple of weeks (it was probably the Diarmaid MacCulloch one) it was said that some accounts reported that it was messy. Quite a few attempts apparently had to be made to behead him; the executioner even having to saw. Gross. :eek:
I thought the season three finale (Cromwell's execution) was excellent. I didn't know it took a few attempts to hack his head off! I felt tense watching it!
Also the first episode of season 4 was very good also. That man (forgotten his name, the one that keeps making the eye at Katherine) is a brute!
I thought the season three finale (Cromwell's execution) was excellent. I didn't know it took a few attempts to hack his head off! I felt tense watching it!
Also the first episode of season 4 was very good also. That man (forgotten his name, the one that keeps making the eye at Katherine) is a brute!
There are theories that Cromwell's enemies got the executioner heavily drunk the night before so as to acheive such a brutal end!
And yeah Thomas Culpepper seems to have been a bit of a **** all thngs considered....
Are there no plans to continue The Tudors with Edward Mary and Elizabeth?
You'd think they would wouldn't you?
Or are the periods from Edward, Mary, and Elizabeth considered too boring to make into series too?
I would have thought it would be a good idea as The Tudors isn't just Henry III. It would be good to see it run through to the Stuarts. Then they could even consider a future series about The Stuarts.
Are there no plans to continue The Tudors with Edward Mary and Elizabeth?
You'd think they would wouldn't you?
Or are the periods from Edward, Mary, and Elizabeth considered too boring to make into series too?
I would have thought it would be a good idea as The Tudors isn't just Henry III. It would be good to see it run through to the Stuarts. Then they could even consider a future series about The Stuarts.
Quiet and uneventful it was most certainly not!!...and neither was Henry`s fathers reign and rise to power boring...but alas it did`t feature in the Tudor TV series either
I've been enjoying the repeats on BBC2 very much. I watched it all the first time too, even though one has to suspend belief watching JRM and his very athletic, handsome series 3 and 4 Henry! I've always loved Tudor history - what a fascinating, yet dangerous time to have lived if you were close to, or part of, the goings on at court.
I've finally succumbed and bought the box set - to be honest, it was the long list of added extras that made my mind up for me (well, that and the fact that it only cost £13 on amazon by the time they'd taken off the UK VAT that C.I. residents are exempt from paying ). I'm a sucker for good background programmes/documentaries/anything in a similar vein on anything historical, so I hope the extras don't disappoint and make the annoying historical inaccuracies/manipulations of the series as a whole worthwhile!
In one of the documentaries that have been on for the BBC Tudor season in the past couple of weeks (it was probably the Diarmaid MacCulloch one) it was said that some accounts reported that it was messy. Quite a few attempts apparently had to be made to behead him; the executioner even having to saw. Gross. :eek:
There is some debate about the reality of the 'drama' of Cromwell's execution. The only surviving account from the time states that Cromwell, "so patiently suffered the stroke of the axe, by a ragged and boocherly miser, which very ungodly performed the office". Which, as several eminent historians have pointed out, could mean lots of things in the mists of time and differences in word meanings and interpretations between then and now, for example that 'butchered' simply meant 2 blows instead of 1, rather than the 'hacking and sawing' that has grown as the 'accepted' sequence of efents. There is also no evidence of anyone getting the executioner drunk. An urban myth and dramatised on The Tudors, yes, but no more than that according to many historians.
There is some debate about the reality of the 'drama' of Cromwell's execution. The only surviving account from the time states that Cromwell, "so patiently suffered the stroke of the axe, by a ragged and boocherly miser, which very ungodly performed the office". Which, as several eminent historians have pointed out, could mean lots of things in the mists of time and differences in word meanings and interpretations between then and now, for example that 'butchered' simply meant 2 blows instead of 1, rather than the 'hacking and sawing' that has grown as the 'accepted' sequence of efents. There is also no evidence of anyone getting the executioner drunk. An urban myth and dramatised on The Tudors, yes, but no more than that according to many historians.
Still, it makes for hood story-telling.
Still not as entertaining and sadenning as The Tudors ultimate execution Katherine Howard i so feel for the poor girl but great episode.
Are there no plans to continue The Tudors with Edward Mary and Elizabeth?
You'd think they would wouldn't you?
Or are the periods from Edward, Mary, and Elizabeth considered too boring to make into series too?
I would have thought it would be a good idea as The Tudors isn't just Henry III. It would be good to see it run through to the Stuarts. Then they could even consider a future series about The Stuarts.
Well Henry III isn't Tudor either, maybe they'll make a "The Plantagenets" and include him.
There's enough material in our Royal Houses to keep them going for the next century if they want to, they should start at Aethelred and go forward.
Well Henry III isn't Tudor either, maybe they'll make a "The Plantagenets" and include him.
There's enough material in our Royal Houses to keep them going for the next century if they want to, they should start at Aethelred and go forward.
Well The White Queen is starting on Sunday. And that revolves around Elizabeth Woodville, Anne Neville and Magaret Beaufort. two Grandmothers to Henry VII (Elizabeth and MArgaret) and set during The War of The Roses. though its more historically innacurate than even the Tudors and wildy romantic
Are there no plans to continue The Tudors with Edward Mary and Elizabeth?
You'd think they would wouldn't you?
Or are the periods from Edward, Mary, and Elizabeth considered too boring to make into series too?
I would have thought it would be a good idea as The Tudors isn't just Henry III. It would be good to see it run through to the Stuarts. Then they could even consider a future series about The Stuarts.
As this series of The Tudors combined Henry's sisters into one person, Lady Jane Grey and Mary Queen of Scots wouldn't exist, and so the familial relationships would have to be conjured up.
Saying that, I'm sure that the makers would find a way
1535 ish in Holbein's paintings Henry looks quite corpulent - he was 44.
Well, as he died aged 55, I'd say 44 was in his later life The jousting accident, in which he hurt his leg and aggravated an earlier wound, was in 1536 when he was 45.
Quiet and uneventful it was most certainly not!!...and neither was Henry`s fathers reign and rise to power boring...but alas it did`t feature in the Tudor TV series either
As this series of The Tudors combined Henry's sisters into one person, Lady Jane Grey and Mary Queen of Scots wouldn't exist, and so the familial relationships would have to be conjured up.
Saying that, I'm sure that the makers would find a way
I think it would be a shame if they don't pick up where they left off as I think it's an opportunity screaming out to be made.
Good point about the early misguided idea of merging two characters into one for the sake of the story they wanted to depict. They'd just have to somehow write their way out of the corner they wrote themselves into. They probably didn't expect that it would be as popular as it turned out to be so only envisioned the series sustaining interest for so long.
I'm actually surprised that I like this as much as I do.
I was put off by it when it was first shown, but I am really enjoying the repeats which I started watching since the last two episodes of series 2 despite its shortfalls.
I think it would be a shame if they don't pick up where they left off as I think it's an opportunity screaming out to be made.
Good point about the early misguided idea of merging two characters into one for the sake of the story they wanted to depict. They'd just have to somehow write their way out of the corner they wrote themselves into. They probably didn't expect that it would be as popular as it turned out to be so only envisioned the series sustaining interest for so long.
I'm actually surprised that I like this as much as I do.
I was put off by it when it was first shown, but I am really enjoying the repeats which I started watching since the last two episodes of series 2 despite its shortfalls.
I'm really enjoying it this time round, I only watched it up to Anne Boleyn's execution last time round. My partner has joined me watching this, he said it was 'really good' and we don't normally like the same dramas.
Tonight on the Yesterday channel at 10pm is Mathew Pinsent's edition of Who Do You Think you Are? It traces his line back to Katherine Howard (and shows a remarkable resemblance with her portrait, in my opinion).
It'll be a nice little lead up to tonight's episodes as it's the executions of Dereham, Culpepper, Lady Rochford and Katherine.
If you haven't seen it already, just be prepared. That's all I'll say.
Tonight on the Yesterday channel at 10pm is Mathew Pinsent's edition of Who Do You Think you Are? It traces his line back to Katherine Howard (and shows a remarkable resemblance with her portrait, in my opinion).
It'll be a nice little lead up to tonight's episodes as it's the executions of Dereham, Culpepper, Lady Rochford and Katherine.
If you haven't seen it already, just be prepared. That's all I'll say.
...and her last child like dance..she was so, so very young.
Comments
I got the impression it was a case of he got what he wanted in "having her" and that was it after that. He could never stay faithfull in any case with any of his wives it seems either.
Having said that, there was one episode where she was in bed with another man too, who was that and was he one of the guys executed for sleeping with her?
This was a recurrent dream sequence...I think it was Thomas Wyatt...he was rumoured to have had an affair with Anne Boleyn before she met Henry...This rumour may well have been true and rather perversly he was the only suspect arrested for alledgedly having sex with Anne who was freed...the others of course lost their heads.
Thanks for that , what a time to live
Well, he was a very good friend of Cromwell. No surprises he got let off - despite him having been the only one to have competed with the King for Anne in the 1520s.
It's also likely that Wyatt and Page (another accused) were let off in order to make those who were executed look more guilty and to make justice appear to be done. Cromwell, even as Wyatt was in the Tower, was happily assuring his father that no harm would come to him, which rather suggests it was all for show.
In one of the documentaries that have been on for the BBC Tudor season in the past couple of weeks (it was probably the Diarmaid MacCulloch one) it was said that some accounts reported that it was messy. Quite a few attempts apparently had to be made to behead him; the executioner even having to saw. Gross. :eek:
Also the first episode of season 4 was very good also. That man (forgotten his name, the one that keeps making the eye at Katherine) is a brute!
There are theories that Cromwell's enemies got the executioner heavily drunk the night before so as to acheive such a brutal end!
And yeah Thomas Culpepper seems to have been a bit of a **** all thngs considered....
Apparently the executioner was drunk and it didn't go that smoothly.
According to Wikipedia. Depends on how accurate Wikipedia is though.
You'd think they would wouldn't you?
Or are the periods from Edward, Mary, and Elizabeth considered too boring to make into series too?
I would have thought it would be a good idea as The Tudors isn't just Henry III. It would be good to see it run through to the Stuarts. Then they could even consider a future series about The Stuarts.
Quiet and uneventful it was most certainly not!!...and neither was Henry`s fathers reign and rise to power boring...but alas it did`t feature in the Tudor TV series either
I've finally succumbed and bought the box set - to be honest, it was the long list of added extras that made my mind up for me (well, that and the fact that it only cost £13 on amazon by the time they'd taken off the UK VAT that C.I. residents are exempt from paying
Thank you, ooh gross.
There is some debate about the reality of the 'drama' of Cromwell's execution. The only surviving account from the time states that Cromwell, "so patiently suffered the stroke of the axe, by a ragged and boocherly miser, which very ungodly performed the office". Which, as several eminent historians have pointed out, could mean lots of things in the mists of time and differences in word meanings and interpretations between then and now, for example that 'butchered' simply meant 2 blows instead of 1, rather than the 'hacking and sawing' that has grown as the 'accepted' sequence of efents. There is also no evidence of anyone getting the executioner drunk. An urban myth and dramatised on The Tudors, yes, but no more than that according to many historians.
Still, it makes for hood story-telling.
Still not as entertaining and sadenning as The Tudors ultimate execution Katherine Howard i so feel for the poor girl but great episode.
Well Henry III isn't Tudor either, maybe they'll make a "The Plantagenets" and include him.
There's enough material in our Royal Houses to keep them going for the next century if they want to, they should start at Aethelred and go forward.
Well The White Queen is starting on Sunday. And that revolves around Elizabeth Woodville, Anne Neville and Magaret Beaufort. two Grandmothers to Henry VII (Elizabeth and MArgaret) and set during The War of The Roses. though its more historically innacurate than even the Tudors and wildy romantic
As this series of The Tudors combined Henry's sisters into one person, Lady Jane Grey and Mary Queen of Scots wouldn't exist, and so the familial relationships would have to be conjured up.
Saying that, I'm sure that the makers would find a way
Just what I was going to say. The poster obviously left out the "V"!
Well, as he died aged 55, I'd say 44 was in his later life
I think it would be a shame if they don't pick up where they left off as I think it's an opportunity screaming out to be made.
Good point about the early misguided idea of merging two characters into one for the sake of the story they wanted to depict. They'd just have to somehow write their way out of the corner they wrote themselves into. They probably didn't expect that it would be as popular as it turned out to be so only envisioned the series sustaining interest for so long.
I'm actually surprised that I like this as much as I do.
I was put off by it when it was first shown, but I am really enjoying the repeats which I started watching since the last two episodes of series 2 despite its shortfalls.
Tonight on the Yesterday channel at 10pm is Mathew Pinsent's edition of Who Do You Think you Are? It traces his line back to Katherine Howard (and shows a remarkable resemblance with her portrait, in my opinion).
It'll be a nice little lead up to tonight's episodes as it's the executions of Dereham, Culpepper, Lady Rochford and Katherine.
If you haven't seen it already, just be prepared. That's all I'll say.