Would You Treat Yourself to a Takeaway to celbrate a Weight Loss??

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  • SULLASULLA Posts: 149,789
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    HALibutt wrote: »
    There is a program on Channel 5 at the moment showing overweight people trying to lose weight.

    The couple they just showed who are attending a weightloss class lost weight this week - but when they got home they ordered a kebab delivery to reward themselves! :o

    I can understand the feeling of wanting to celebrate their achievements but surely this is completely counterproductive?

    I am guessing that the Program producer told them to do it.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 68,508
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    paralax wrote: »
    I
    I can't feel sympathy for any of them, except the teenager whose mother did her such harm.

    They were all fat teenagers once you know.

    Having seen several thousand posts on facebook about this programme - most of them extremely hostile and unpleasant, and some of them astonishingly vicious - I find this programme, and the Mail/ Mirror treatment of the people extremely disquieting.

    1. It is part of a 'suggest that everyone on benefits is a worthless scrounger' campaign which seems to have very deep roots, and which suits the government very well. On the Daily Mirror facebook site alone, there must be at least 1000 posts saying that they should have their benefits taken away, because they are 'lazy', 'greedy' and 'scroungers'. Occasionally people will chirp up and say that actually Mr Beer said he would love to have a job, but that no one will consider him. And obviously, we all know that is true: someone with a severe and un-pretty disability will be at the bottom of every employer's list.

    2. The articles constantly refer to "OUR money". Stephen and Michelle Beer have used OUR money to pay for a wedding, a meal out, and anything else they have spent money on. Wrong. If someone qualifies for DLA (which is pretty difficult), the money is theirs, to spend as they choose. It seems very unpleasant to me to suggest that anyone on benefits is entitled to nothing because the money is not theirs.

    3. There is a characteristic gloss on the nature of their problems. Stephen Beer lost his ability to walk after suffering a major stroke. Michelle is his main carer. Those are common events, and not limited to the fat. Few people, I can guarantee, would be 'shouting at their television' and demanding that they are left destitute if a thin man had that level of disability, and was dependent on his wife in the way that he is. Somehow, being fat cancels out the stroke and makes it not count. I should think the number of people on various sites combusting that 'being fat is not a disability!' runs into several thousand. No, of course it isn't. But having a disability IS having a disability, and Mr Beer can barely walk.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 11,110
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    They were all fat teenagers once you know.

    Having seen several thousand posts on facebook about this programme - most of them extremely hostile and unpleasant, and some of them astonishingly vicious - I find this programme, and the Mail/ Mirror treatment of the people extremely disquieting.

    1. It is part of a 'suggest that everyone on benefits is a worthless scrounger' campaign which seems to have very deep roots, and which suits the government very well. On the Daily Mirror facebook site alone, there must be at least 1000 posts saying that they should have their benefits taken away, because they are 'lazy', 'greedy' and 'scroungers'. Occasionally people will chirp up and say that actually Mr Beer said he would love to have a job, but that no one will consider him. And obviously, we all know that is true: someone with a severe and un-pretty disability will be at the bottom of every employer's list.

    2. The articles constantly refer to "OUR money". Stephen and Michelle Beer have used OUR money to pay for a wedding, a meal out, and anything else they have spent money on. Wrong. If someone qualifies for DLA (which is pretty difficult), the money is theirs, to spend as they choose. It seems very unpleasant to me to suggest that anyone on benefits is entitled to nothing because the money is not theirs.

    3. There is a characteristic gloss on the nature of their problems. Stephen Beer lost his ability to walk after suffering a major stroke. Michelle is his main carer. Those are common events, and not limited to the fat. Few people, I can guarantee, would be 'shouting at their television' and demanding that they are left destitute if a thin man had that level of disability, and was dependent on his wife in the way that he is. Somehow, being fat cancels out the stroke and makes it not count. I should think the number of people on various sites combusting that 'being fat is not a disability!' runs into several thousand. No, of course it isn't. But having a disability IS having a disability, and Mr Beer can barely walk.

    I'm not sure I can agree with you.

    On the program the voiceover lady said his eating got out of control after his stroke BUT I read somewhere that his stroke was CAUSED by his massive weight, so therefore was it not self-inflicted in a way?

    Also if his now wife is his main carer why does he need another one to come in and wash him? :confused:

    I need the throwing up smiley back here. :o
  • molliepopsmolliepops Posts: 26,821
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    HALibutt wrote: »
    I'm not sure I can agree with you.

    On the program the voiceover lady said his eating got out of control after his stroke BUT I read somewhere that his stroke was CAUSED by his massive weight, so therefore was it not self-inflicted in a way?

    Also if his now wife is his main carer why does he need another one to come in and wash him? :confused:

    I need the throwing up smiley back here. :o

    Hope you are never in place in your life where you need care or have to care for someone. He needed help and while agree his wife should have been supplying it I would guess at the size she was she would have found it hard to do the caring and lifting herself.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 7,363
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    Ooops. Don't remind me I did that just last night with fish and chips and I am suffering for it today.
  • elliecatelliecat Posts: 9,890
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    HALibutt wrote: »
    I'm not sure I can agree with you.

    On the program the voiceover lady said his eating got out of control after his stroke BUT I read somewhere that his stroke was CAUSED by his massive weight, so therefore was it not self-inflicted in a way?

    Also if his now wife is his main carer why does he need another one to come in and wash him? :confused:

    I need the throwing up smiley back here. :o

    My parents' Neighbour has had a few strokes and is now basically housebound/in a wheelchair/very frustrated as he used to be a very active person. His wife is his main carer but she herself has been ill (cancer) and she can't lift him when he falls because she is just not strong enough(she gets my parents, who have a spare key, to come round and help) but she has a carer come round to help her with him.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 68,508
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    HALibutt wrote: »
    I'm not sure I can agree with you.

    On the program the voiceover lady said his eating got out of control after his stroke BUT I read somewhere that his stroke was CAUSED by his massive weight, so therefore was it not self-inflicted in a way?
    If you 'read somewhere that his stroke was caused by his massive weight', the thing you read was wrong. It is only in a minority of cases that the cause of a stroke can be established; fat people and thin people can have strokes. It is a very popular view (presumably among the slender) that medical catastrophes are some kind of punishment from god for getting fat. They must be very disagreeably surprised if they suffer one themselves.

    In any case (and I am not attacking you personally here) I have got aggravated by the massive outpouring we always get in these instances of "obesity is in the person's control. It is self-inflicted. etc etc." Sometimes there is a little codicil saying "unless the person has a condition of course". These people never have any idea what they mean by 'a condition'; nor do they ever mitigate their abuse in view of the fact that they have no idea whether the person they are abusing has 'a condition'. Some people make themselves more comfortable by claiming that there are in fact NO 'conditions' that make people fat, so abuse and blame should always be our default position.

    Do either of these two people have 'a condition' making them fat? I should think so, rationally speaking. Almost none of us would ever want to eat so much that we reach 30 stone. We don't exercise heroic self-control every time we don't eat that much, do we? I literally couldn't eat that much; it is noticable that the odious katie Hopkins, forcing her weight above its natural level, had to work with a dietician, absurdly, to find ways to put on weight by eating far more than she wanted to. Those of us who don't have to fight hard not to be 30 stone are LUCKY. We don't have 'a condition' that makes us eat that much. Some people are so lucky that they don't want to over-eat much at all, and stay naturally quite slim without having to deny themselves what they long for.
    Also if his now wife is his main carer why does he need another one to come in and wash him? :confused:[/QOUTE]
    I am not sure that I understand the question. Because he has a high level of disability, he needs pretty well constant care. For all the kind and charitable people bellowing about them getting high levels of benefits (and I think we need to see how that sum is arrived at, since there are no special, secret benefits that only they get), she is saving the state a goodly sum, since without her he would almost certainly need residential care, since he can barely walk.

    I need the throwing up smiley back here. :o
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 11,110
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    The couple featured on this show over-ate to ridiculous extremes. That is NOT a medical condition, that is their CHOICE.
    As far as I know any 'condition' they have developed since is as a RESULT of overeating. Pure and simple isn't it?

    The man is so large he cannot walk very far without getting out of breath and this is a direct result of the position he put HIMSELF in.

    Correct me if I have got it wrong.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 11,110
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    molliepops wrote: »
    Hope you are never in place in your life where you need care or have to care for someone. He needed help and while agree his wife should have been supplying it I would guess at the size she was she would have found it hard to do the caring and lifting herself.

    Apologies if that seemed harsh - but the job the lady had did not seem very pleasant.

    I would have thought for his own self respect he would want to avoid being in that position and therefore become more serious about his weightloss.

    He did say on his This Morning interview that he is going to attend a bootcamp and I hope he is successful.
  • molliepopsmolliepops Posts: 26,821
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    Some times people get to a point in their lives all they have is food this is why I think people need help to keep working as it gives them something other than food to think about. I caught myself before I got to that stage but some people are not so lucky.

    I think looking at the couple they haven't got much other than food in their lives. :(
  • molliepopsmolliepops Posts: 26,821
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    HALibutt wrote: »
    Apologies if that seemed harsh - but the job the lady had did not seem very pleasant.

    I would have thought for his own self respect he would want to avoid being in that position and therefore become more serious about his weightloss.

    He did say on his This Morning interview that he is going to attend a bootcamp and I hope he is successful.

    A boot camp is worst place for him and I would doubt any legitimate caring one would take him on anyway.
  • Ghost MisguidedGhost Misguided Posts: 1,175
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    Sure I remember seeing that guy on Jeremy Kyle too.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 68,508
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    HALibutt wrote: »
    The couple featured on this show over-ate to ridiculous extremes. That is NOT a medical condition, that is their CHOICE.
    As far as I know any 'condition' they have developed since is as a RESULT of overeating. Pure and simple isn't it?

    The man is so large he cannot walk very far without getting out of breath and this is a direct result of the position he put HIMSELF in.

    Correct me if I have got it wrong.

    How can we correct you? We don't know his medical history. We don't know what caused his weight to spiral out of control. The thing is, neither do you. You are presenting your idle speculations - that no 'condition' had anything to do with his weight - as if they are fact.

    'Choice' seems to me plain wrong. No one CHOOSES to become so disabled that they can barely stand up. I will keep saying this until I die, or am banned for repetition, whichever comes first. There is nothing heroic, or admirable, about not eating yourself to 30 stone if you have no wish to do so. It is like trying to boast that you are better than someone who sets themselves on fire because they have caused their own suffering. I am 'overweight' myself - bigger than 'fat' katie Hopkins, though a lot less whiney - but I will never, unless I suffer some kind of horrific systemic crisis, weigh much more than I do now. I eat what I want to eat, within reason, and would be revolted and utterly nauseated at the thought of eating 6500 calories a day. Most of us would; not because we are superior people, stronger, better, wiser and less 'greedy' than those who do, but because we are LUCKIER. Our bodies are not programmed to eat that level of food, nothing like it, and we naturally and effortlessly stop eating long before we have eaten half that much.

    I remember someone being absolutely savaged on here for eating three portions of fish and chips (and being very fat). Could you eat three portions of fish and chips? I can't eat one, not nearly. There are people with no, or a very poorly functioning, satiety point. They can eat a meal and almost immediately be genuinely ravenous. Those are the people who get to 30 stone. Those are the ONLY people who get to 30 stone, because no one with a functioning satiety point would ever eat that much food. Sometimes it is genetic, sometimes related to catastrophic events (eg brain trauma), sometimes to do with certain medications or very high dose steroids.

    People who piously intone that the very obese are just 'greedy', and start fantasising ever more unpleasant treatments for them, often put in a weak little clause saying 'unless they have a condition'. They don't get it. No one gets super-obese without having a 'condition'. The very obese have so swallowed the hatred and vitriol they live with that they may long since have stopped questioning the matter. "I am very obese, and it is because I am very greedy and eat far too much" they will say, meekly. They never seem to ask WHY they eat so much more than other people; WHY they eat so much more than other people ever want to; clearly 'greed' is the only word to use for someone unlucky enough to suffer constant, excruciating cravings for food.
  • david16david16 Posts: 14,821
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    HALibutt wrote: »
    The couple featured on this show over-ate to ridiculous extremes. That is NOT a medical condition, that is their CHOICE.
    As far as I know any 'condition' they have developed since is as a RESULT of overeating. Pure and simple isn't it?

    The man is so large he cannot walk very far without getting out of breath and this is a direct result of the position he put HIMSELF in.

    Correct me if I have got it wrong.

    They did not intentionally get disabled.
  • Hollie_LouiseHollie_Louise Posts: 39,759
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    You don't just get that fat though. You don't just wake up one morning and be that size. How do you not realise what you are doing to yourself?
  • molliepopsmolliepops Posts: 26,821
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    You don't just get that fat though. You don't just wake up one morning and be that size. How do you not realise what you are doing to yourself?

    I would guess it's not that difficult I got to 20 stones then realised one day I couldn't get my tights on and that it had been a week since I could do my shoes up my self. I was teetering there on a cusp of should I try to loose weight (never managed it before) or just give up, that was slightly more manageable. I had a doctors appointment so went to that and was told I was diabetic now so that really hit home and I came home and sorted my head out and started a diet. Could so easily of not done that though, just needed to have been depressed that day and not feeling I deserved more than this half life I had slipped into.
  • DaisyBillDaisyBill Posts: 4,339
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    You don't just get that fat though. You don't just wake up one morning and be that size. How do you not realise what you are doing to yourself?

    I suppose it happens gradually, and bit by bit people get used to it.
    I used to weigh nearly 15 stone myself (bmi 37 approx.), it took me about 10 years to get that size from a normal bmi. I think the thing that stopped me from getting fatter was the fact that I had been thin as a child and young adult. I knew what it felt like to be fit and active, to be able to wear 'normal' clothes, to not feel fat and ugly, just to feel normal. I wonder what it's like for someone who grows up in a family of overweight people, to have no memory of ever being a normal size, to eat normal size portions, to do sport and exercise just as part of everyday life.
    It must be incredibly difficult for some people to even start to lose weight, when they literally don't know any different.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 11,110
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    Sure I remember seeing that guy on Jeremy Kyle too.

    Yes, on the other thread they said he had been on there a few times I think.
    Something to do with women and having 5 wives before this current one.
  • muntamunta Posts: 18,285
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    You don't just get that fat though. You don't just wake up one morning and be that size. How do you not realise what you are doing to yourself?

    It took me a while to realise I was piling on the pounds. I noticed last year when I had to get a new best mans suit for a mates wedding. And in the wedding photos I looked like a right porker. Part of the weight gain was due to giving up smoking the year before, leading to comfort eating and some was due to pure lazyness on my part with cooking unhealthy food. So I took steps to resolve it. And six months later I've gone from a BMI of 32 to a BMI of 24. I've not found it hard to do one bit. Just concious of what I eat and going to the gym.

    The guys in this program know 100% that they are obese so theirs no excuse for them not to deal with their issue.
  • Hollie_LouiseHollie_Louise Posts: 39,759
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    munta wrote: »
    It took me a while to realise I was piling on the pounds. I noticed last year when I had to get a new best mans suit for a mates wedding. And in the wedding photos I looked like a right porker. Part of the weight gain was due to giving up smoking the year before, leading to comfort eating and some was due to pure lazyness on my part with cooking unhealthy food. So I took steps to resolve it. And six months later I've gone from a BMI of 32 to a BMI of 24. I've not found it hard to do one bit. Just concious of what I eat and going to the gym.

    The guys in this program know 100% that they are obese so theirs no excuse for them not to deal with their issue.

    A while yes, it takes me a while to notice I'm putting on weight. But to become obese, and to the point you can't walk or even stand and cut mushrooms without getting out of breath?
  • netcurtainsnetcurtains Posts: 23,494
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    I wonder why some people just don't have an off switch?
    I'm massively greedy sometimes, I love my food and I'm capable of eating much more than I should and I can carry on for a while even when full but I know I couldn't eat myself to 30stone, I would find it impossible. I have watched some of these sorts of programmes and seen the amount of food they can consume and it's a scary amount that with the best will in the world I would not be able to manage without making myself ill.
    So I can't sit here and congratulate myself for not being morbidly obese, I'm just grateful that I have an inbuilt off switch that stops me from eating enough to get that big.
    I think more research is needed into why there are people that can just eat and eat and eat, why don't they get so full that they stop like the majority of us and it can't be greed because like I said, I am definitely greedy, I can eat a slice of chocolate cake even when I'm full but these people can eat the full cake and still be able to eat something else.
  • muntamunta Posts: 18,285
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    A while yes, it takes me a while to notice I'm putting on weight. But to become obese, and to the point you can't walk or even stand and cut mushrooms without getting out of breath?

    I think it's virtually impossible to become morbidly obese without realising it. hitting 30 BMI and hardly noticing however is a different matter.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 68,508
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    You don't just get that fat though. You don't just wake up one morning and be that size. How do you not realise what you are doing to yourself?
    Of course they realize what they are doing to themselves, just as people who drink themselves to death eventually realize that they are permanently ill. That doesn't meant that people in either group can just snap their fingers and stop.

    Actually, most of us rarely experience severe food cravings these days. (Presumably, throughout most of history, most people have been very hungry for most of the time; but poorer people have been poorly served by historians, and their cravings left no traces.) Most of us, if we are really hungry to the point of stomach pain, and that sickish, faintish feeling that you get when you are (colloquially) 'absolutely ravenous', just eat something. We have even invented an entire new concept called a 'snack', to describe 'food that we eat when it seems a long time until a meal'. If we ever do suffer from feeling 'absolutely ravenous' and can't have anything to eat, we feel pretty hard-done-by. Imagine feeling like that all the time.

    I once stumbled upon a forum for parents of children with genetic conditions making them constantly starving, and it was a new and grim world watching them swapping parenting tips. Some of them recommended asbo-style ankle bracelets that would warn them if the children had gone into the kitchen. Others said that if they took a hard line on stopping their children eating, the children would eat cloth, mattress stuffing, tissues etc. Those children were at the extreme; maybe people would even concede that they had a 'condition'. But the truth is that some people really do get hungrier than others; not twice as hungry, but perhaps 50 times hungrier. And there really is nothing they can do about it.
    I wonder why some people just don't have an off switch?
    It nearly always seems to be inherited. Very obese children tend to have very obese parents even when the children have been adopted, and are being brought up in a slim family. But there are other causes. It can be a feature of brain injuries that someone loses their off switch. And various medications seem to switch it off. Anti-psychotics are notorious; some of them have a very high level of leading to obesity as people just lose the ability to stop eating.
    So I can't sit here and congratulate myself for not being morbidly obese, I'm just grateful that I have an inbuilt off switch that stops me from eating enough to get that big.
    I think more research is needed into why there are people that can just eat and eat and eat, why don't they get so full that they stop like the majority of us and it can't be greed because like I said, I am definitely greedy, I can eat a slice of chocolate cake even when I'm full but these people can eat the full cake and still be able to eat something else.

    I do think genetic manipulation is the great hope of the future. If we could re-set the satiety point of obese people, so that they just didn't want to eat that much food, they could live like naturally slim people, and not having to fight every hour of every day.

    I have read that gastric bypasses (but not gastric bands) do seem to re-set the satiety point, in a way that is not well understood. People with gastric bypasses sometimes say that they have simply stopped being very hungry, whereas people with gastric bands often feel famished all the time. I would love to see a world where people like those on this unfortunate programme can be treated, re-set their appetites for good, and live a nice normal life like most of us.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 11,110
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    molliepops wrote: »
    A boot camp is worst place for him and I would doubt any legitimate caring one would take him on anyway.

    Why on earth do you think that?

    Did you never see the ITV show Britain's Biggest Loser?

    A lot of the people on that, particularly the men were 20 or 30 stone - and had huge successes with their weight loss.
  • alan29alan29 Posts: 34,612
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    If I wanted to celebrate something, eating a takeaway would not even feature on my list of ways to do it.
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