so this pay by phone have still not really got anywhere. i thought Visa was going to bring on their app last year, four months into this year and still nothing.
Also, annoyed with my bank, i changed my account, same bank, different account and they sent me a new card, with NFc, I told them I did not want NFC, so now they got to send me a non-NFC card, once I get around to getting in touch with them
It thus become infuriating when the likes of Tesco do not cater for it.
Tesco and Sainsburys are refreshing their terminals in most stores to enable contactless. My local Tesco now takes contactless and my local Sainsburys has the terminals but doesn't have it turned on yet.
Seems some retailers have rushed it though as my local Wetherspoons had to turn off contactless as their terminals would not take some MasterCards (some did work though) via contactless and it wouldn't take any American Express card via contactless. I'm not really sure why they turned it off though, all that happened when I tapped my AMEX is that it would just tell me to insert the card as "Contactless was not possible", not a massive problem (they could have left it on for the cards that do work via contactless there).
Curiously my local Morrisons petrol station seems to have had a complete breakdown of technology and is just swiping through cards at the moment and getting you to sign. Which in my case was handy as I'd just come back from the US after 2 months (where they still use swipe and sign) and had a bit of a blank moment remembering my PIN as I was walking in to pay.
..Curiously my local Morrisons petrol station seems to have had a complete breakdown of technology and is just swiping through cards at the moment ....
I wonder if they had XP in the middle. Microsoft just downed hundreds of XP machines used for payments via a dodgy MSE update.
I wonder if they had XP in the middle. Microsoft just downed hundreds of XP machines used for payments via a dodgy MSE update.
Maybe but the chip and pin machines work fine on what look like the same machines in the actual store. They could of course be running completely different software. Things seem to be running ok at the moment with them using swipe and sign as a stand in solution anyway. Its actually a little bit quicker compared to C&P, although the cashier did look like they were running out of places to stick the signed receipts.
Not with the £20 limit they won't. I would imagine contactless in a petrol station is bordering on pointless.
The industry is already proposing raising the limit, especially for petrol stations and supermarkets (Both categories that have low fraud risk). I noticed today that BP is already ready for mobile payments over £20, you'll see that the terminal says tap payment device or insert/swipe card on transactions over £20.
The industry is already proposing raising the limit, especially for petrol stations and supermarkets (Both categories that have low fraud risk). I noticed today that BP is already ready for mobile payments over £20, you'll see that the terminal says tap payment device or insert/swipe card on transactions over £20.
It says that because you cannot tap above £20 as that is the limit. That isn't preparing for anything, that is the current situation.
It will be interesting to see what they propose to raise the limit to.
The industry is already proposing raising the limit, especially for petrol stations and supermarkets (Both categories that have low fraud risk). I noticed today that BP is already ready for mobile payments over £20, you'll see that the terminal says tap payment device or insert/swipe card on transactions over £20.
If petrol stations are a low fraud risk then why are pay at pump transactions capped at £99 (or less) almost everywhere?
High fraud risk is the only reason to impose such a cap.
I find it a trifle amusing that back last September when Apple announced the 5S without NFC the naysayers here were predicting doom for Apple without NFC. Here we are nearly in May with the next iPhone probably due in a few months time, and Barclaycard have still not released their NFC app which was heralded to be the point at which NFC would skyrocket. Meanwhile Apple have just reported record earnings, stock up 8% and I still doubt they will support NFC in their next phone.
If petrol stations are a low fraud risk then why are pay at pump transactions capped at £99 (or less) almost everywhere?
High fraud risk is the only reason to impose such a cap.
Actually its nothing to do with fraud (+ Security is no better inside, you'll still enter your PIN). Its because the transaction amount is unknown. The card is just approved with a £1 test transaction before you pump your car to check its valid . Then final amount is the sent through later on. The banks have it capped at various amounts (£99 for Visa and Amex and something slightly less for MC I think) because it allows the banks to have a better view of how much you've spent.
For example, someone using a debit card (with no overdraft on their Current account) could only have £5 in their account but could fill up with £99 (as the pump only checks the card is valid) and the bank wouldn't have choice but to provide an unauthorised overdraft. The card network schemes limit the exposure to £99 for most offline or amount unknown transactions (transactions that don't contact the bank, like on planes are limited to a maximum between £99 and £125). The only exceptions are hotels and car rental companies that are not limited to a particular amount.
Some banks like RBS and Natwest completed block Pay@Pump transactions for their more risky customers.
The industry is already proposing raising the limit, especially for petrol stations and supermarkets (Both categories that have low fraud risk). I noticed today that BP is already ready for mobile payments over £20, you'll see that the terminal says tap payment device or insert/swipe card on transactions over £20.
And when they do, depending how much they rise the limited, expect them to slowly get rid of the we will protect you part of the agreement or at least change it.
So if you lose your card, someone can use it for a certain amount fo times and each time can go close to the limit, of what ever they rise it to, say £50, so if someone uses the card 4 times, that could be almost £200 the bank have to pay out.
Once they got people using the tap to pay system there is no going back, because eventually they will put the limit to that of a normal debit/credit card and say, if you lose it and someone else uses it, tough luck.
I find it a trifle amusing that back last September when Apple announced the 5S without NFC the naysayers here were predicting doom for Apple without NFC. Here we are nearly in May with the next iPhone probably due in a few months time, and Barclaycard have still not released their NFC app which was heralded to be the point at which NFC would skyrocket. Meanwhile Apple have just reported record earnings, stock up 8% and I still doubt they will support NFC in their next phone.
Visa have not released their's either, a mate of mine is getting pretty well fed up with it as he wants to use his phone to pay for things. I annoyed him yesterday when I told him I got a contactless card now, he wants one but his bank either don't supply them on his account. he is annoyed, because i got one and I don't want it and because he wants one he can't get one.
By the time there is any proper use for the NFC chip in my phone, it will be outdated and no doubt in landfill, considering that I have had the phone for nearly 12 months now and I want to keep it for at least 5 years, that is stil a long time to go.
Visa have not released their's either, a mate of mine is getting pretty well fed up with it as he wants to use his phone to pay for things.....
Tell him to move to Kenya. It is the emerging economies, where bank accounts are near unheard of, where phone payments are much the norm.
But surely you could order an cash card with NFC, cut out the NFC bit and stick it inside or on the back of the phone. Also, any silicon case would likely let you put a whole card inside.
That's the thing, banks do not want another middle man. They will always want to be owner supplier of the NFC.
And when they do, depending how much they rise the limited, expect them to slowly get rid of the we will protect you part of the agreement or at least change it.
So if you lose your card, someone can use it for a certain amount fo times and each time can go close to the limit, of what ever they rise it to, say £50, so if someone uses the card 4 times, that could be almost £200 the bank have to pay out.
Once they got people using the tap to pay system there is no going back, because eventually they will put the limit to that of a normal debit/credit card and say, if you lose it and someone else uses it, tough luck.
In Australia the contactless limit is 100 AUD, which is about £55 and they don't really have any issue with it. The limit is only slightly less in New Zealand.
The US doesn't really have any issues with with Swipe and no signature for purchases under 50 USD either (They just have issues with counterfeit cards).
Fraudsters want high value goods they can sell. There not interested in £50 or £100 goods.
Tell him to move to Kenya. It is the emerging economies, where bank accounts are near unheard of, where phone payments are much the norm.
I don't think he will like that, he been away from home too much over the last few years and have only just settled back in the UK.
But surely you could order an cash card with NFC, cut out the NFC bit and stick it inside or on the back of the phone. Also, any silicon case would likely let you put a whole card inside.
i know of a mate, um, maybe not really a mate, just someone from work, but we do meet for a coffee now and again, anyway they have who got a small card stuck onto the back of his phone, I think it is HSBC and that got a NFC chip in
That's the thing, banks do not want another middle man. They will always want to be owner supplier of the NFC.
but there is not middle man, the app would be their's, the only thing that is not is the NFC chip.
In Australia the contactless limit is 100 AUD, which is about £55 and they don't really have any issue with it. The limit is only slightly less in New Zealand.
Don't they? you mean no issues which we have been told about.
The US doesn't really have any issues with with Swipe and no signature for purchases under 50 USD either (They just have issues with counterfeit cards).
We had a American woman come into work a couple of days back, I was at the customer service desk checking in some click and collect, she was asking if our checkouts would accept a card with no chip. I guessed they still would, the girl behind the desk did not think so, anyway they tried the card and it worked.
so the new systems still backwards compatible, which is good.
Fraudsters want high value goods they can sell. There not interested in £50 or £100 goods.
But it is not always fraudsters, sometimes it is opportunity. See a card on the floor that someone dropped and try your luck that the contactless limit have not been reached. this is the main reason why I don't really want one.
In Australia the contactless limit is 100 AUD, which is about £55 and they don't really have any issue with it. The limit is only slightly less in New Zealand.
We had a American woman come into work a couple of days back, I was at the customer service desk checking in some click and collect, she was asking if our checkouts would accept a card with no chip. I guessed they still would, the girl behind the desk did not think so, anyway they tried the card and it worked.
so the new systems still backwards compatible, which is good.
Pretty much everywhere still takes swipe and sign cards (apart from automated machines that can't check a signature). American Express actually still use emergency replacement cards in the UK that only have a magnetic stripe (They issue it if you've damaged your card or lost it and need a card same day or next day (depending on where you live)). Diners Club still have swipe and sign cards in the UK as well, they only just started issuing chip cards. Although admittedly no one actually uses Diners Club.
Opportunity fraud is going to be relatively low though and the banks have obviously decided they make enough money from the extra transactions to cover it
Actually its nothing to do with fraud (+ Security is no better inside, you'll still enter your PIN). Its because the transaction amount is unknown. The card is just approved with a £1 test transaction before you pump your car to check its valid . Then final amount is the sent through later on. The banks have it capped at various amounts (£99 for Visa and Amex and something slightly less for MC I think) because it allows the banks to have a better view of how much you've spent.
For example, someone using a debit card (with no overdraft on their Current account) could only have £5 in their account but could fill up with £99 (as the pump only checks the card is valid) and the bank wouldn't have choice but to provide an unauthorised overdraft. The card network schemes limit the exposure to £99 for most offline or amount unknown transactions (transactions that don't contact the bank, like on planes are limited to a maximum between £99 and £125). The only exceptions are hotels and car rental companies that are not limited to a particular amount.
Some banks like RBS and Natwest completed block Pay@Pump transactions for their more risky customers.
Typed this up on phone, so hope it make sense.
So hang on, what you're saying is if my business Credit card is £50 from it's limit, the Morrisons pay @ Pump will still say "Maximum spend £100"??
If I then fill up with £100, it will still go through but I'll then get a fine on my statement??
If I tried to use it for something else at a normal terminal over £50 it would normally block the transaction. So what you're saying is the bank recognises Pay @ Pump differently and honours the payment but stings me for it?
I've never actually tried this but just asking.
So hang on, what you're saying is if my business Credit card is £50 from it's limit, the Morrisons pay @ Pump will still say "Maximum spend £100"??
If I then fill up with £100, it will still go through but I'll then get a fine on my statement??
If I tried to use it for something else at a normal terminal over £50 it would normally block the transaction. So what you're saying is the bank recognises Pay @ Pump differently and honours the payment but stings me for it?
I've never actually tried this but just asking.
Yes what you've said is correct. Although many credit cards will let you go over limit anyway.
Comments
It thus become infuriating when the likes of Tesco do not cater for it.
I know.
It's quite widespread now (even Aldi have it).
/snore.....
Tesco and Sainsburys are refreshing their terminals in most stores to enable contactless. My local Tesco now takes contactless and my local Sainsburys has the terminals but doesn't have it turned on yet.
Seems some retailers have rushed it though as my local Wetherspoons had to turn off contactless as their terminals would not take some MasterCards (some did work though) via contactless and it wouldn't take any American Express card via contactless. I'm not really sure why they turned it off though, all that happened when I tapped my AMEX is that it would just tell me to insert the card as "Contactless was not possible", not a massive problem (they could have left it on for the cards that do work via contactless there).
Curiously my local Morrisons petrol station seems to have had a complete breakdown of technology and is just swiping through cards at the moment and getting you to sign. Which in my case was handy as I'd just come back from the US after 2 months (where they still use swipe and sign) and had a bit of a blank moment remembering my PIN as I was walking in to pay.
Once it is ubiquitous people will start to forget their pin.
I wonder if they had XP in the middle. Microsoft just downed hundreds of XP machines used for payments via a dodgy MSE update.
Maybe but the chip and pin machines work fine on what look like the same machines in the actual store. They could of course be running completely different software. Things seem to be running ok at the moment with them using swipe and sign as a stand in solution anyway. Its actually a little bit quicker compared to C&P, although the cashier did look like they were running out of places to stick the signed receipts.
Not with the £20 limit they won't. I would imagine contactless in a petrol station is bordering on pointless.
The industry is already proposing raising the limit, especially for petrol stations and supermarkets (Both categories that have low fraud risk). I noticed today that BP is already ready for mobile payments over £20, you'll see that the terminal says tap payment device or insert/swipe card on transactions over £20.
It says that because you cannot tap above £20 as that is the limit. That isn't preparing for anything, that is the current situation.
It will be interesting to see what they propose to raise the limit to.
If petrol stations are a low fraud risk then why are pay at pump transactions capped at £99 (or less) almost everywhere?
High fraud risk is the only reason to impose such a cap.
Actually its nothing to do with fraud (+ Security is no better inside, you'll still enter your PIN). Its because the transaction amount is unknown. The card is just approved with a £1 test transaction before you pump your car to check its valid . Then final amount is the sent through later on. The banks have it capped at various amounts (£99 for Visa and Amex and something slightly less for MC I think) because it allows the banks to have a better view of how much you've spent.
For example, someone using a debit card (with no overdraft on their Current account) could only have £5 in their account but could fill up with £99 (as the pump only checks the card is valid) and the bank wouldn't have choice but to provide an unauthorised overdraft. The card network schemes limit the exposure to £99 for most offline or amount unknown transactions (transactions that don't contact the bank, like on planes are limited to a maximum between £99 and £125). The only exceptions are hotels and car rental companies that are not limited to a particular amount.
Some banks like RBS and Natwest completed block Pay@Pump transactions for their more risky customers.
Typed this up on phone, so hope it make sense.
And when they do, depending how much they rise the limited, expect them to slowly get rid of the we will protect you part of the agreement or at least change it.
So if you lose your card, someone can use it for a certain amount fo times and each time can go close to the limit, of what ever they rise it to, say £50, so if someone uses the card 4 times, that could be almost £200 the bank have to pay out.
Once they got people using the tap to pay system there is no going back, because eventually they will put the limit to that of a normal debit/credit card and say, if you lose it and someone else uses it, tough luck.
Visa have not released their's either, a mate of mine is getting pretty well fed up with it as he wants to use his phone to pay for things. I annoyed him yesterday when I told him I got a contactless card now, he wants one but his bank either don't supply them on his account. he is annoyed, because i got one and I don't want it and because he wants one he can't get one.
By the time there is any proper use for the NFC chip in my phone, it will be outdated and no doubt in landfill, considering that I have had the phone for nearly 12 months now and I want to keep it for at least 5 years, that is stil a long time to go.
I noticed that yesterday when i went in to get some part baked rolls.
But surely you could order an cash card with NFC, cut out the NFC bit and stick it inside or on the back of the phone. Also, any silicon case would likely let you put a whole card inside.
That's the thing, banks do not want another middle man. They will always want to be owner supplier of the NFC.
Totally wrong
In Australia the contactless limit is 100 AUD, which is about £55 and they don't really have any issue with it. The limit is only slightly less in New Zealand.
The US doesn't really have any issues with with Swipe and no signature for purchases under 50 USD either (They just have issues with counterfeit cards).
Fraudsters want high value goods they can sell. There not interested in £50 or £100 goods.
I don't think he will like that, he been away from home too much over the last few years and have only just settled back in the UK.
i know of a mate, um, maybe not really a mate, just someone from work, but we do meet for a coffee now and again, anyway they have who got a small card stuck onto the back of his phone, I think it is HSBC and that got a NFC chip in
but there is not middle man, the app would be their's, the only thing that is not is the NFC chip.
So hang on, what you're saying is if my business Credit card is £50 from it's limit, the Morrisons pay @ Pump will still say "Maximum spend £100"??
If I then fill up with £100, it will still go through but I'll then get a fine on my statement??
If I tried to use it for something else at a normal terminal over £50 it would normally block the transaction. So what you're saying is the bank recognises Pay @ Pump differently and honours the payment but stings me for it?
I've never actually tried this but just asking.
Yes what you've said is correct. Although many credit cards will let you go over limit anyway.