But surely Sky is not acting as retailer for Sky Sports with TalkTalk customers.
Sky is wholesaling Sky Sports to TalkTalk - and TalkTalk is then retailing it to its customers.
TalkTalk customers wanting ongoing subscriptions to Sky Sports buy them from TalkTalk.
If TalkTalk customers want a Sky Sports day pass they purchase it directly from Now TV (ie Sky) but it is delivered via TalkTalk's multicast network. Sorry, I should have made this clearer. http://help.nowtv.com/article/Sky-Sports-Day-Pass-YouView
I think the key point is that from Summer 2014, YouView will become an open platform for live pay-TV channels. This means any company can offer its channels directly without the need to wholesale to the two ISPs BT and TalkTalk.
TalkTalk customers wanting ongoing subscriptions to Sky Sports buy them from TalkTalk.
If TalkTalk customers want a Sky Sports day pass they purchase it directly from Now TV (ie Sky) but it is delivered via TalkTalk's multicast network. Sorry, I should have made this clearer. http://help.nowtv.com/article/Sky-Sports-Day-Pass-YouView
I think the key point is that from Summer 2014, YouView will become an open platform for live pay-TV channels. This means any company can offer its channels directly without the need to wholesale to the two ISPs BT and TalkTalk.
OK, thanks for that.
Notwithstanding your final paragraph, I would still expect Sky to continue wholesaling Sky Sports to TalkTalk after Summer 2014 - indeed I imagine Sky's contract with TalkTalk is such that that will continue to happen.
Notwithstanding your final paragraph, I would still expect Sky to continue wholesaling Sky Sports to TalkTalk after Summer 2014 - indeed I imagine Sky's contract with TalkTalk is such that that will continue to happen.
I agree.
Interesting article in today's London Evening Standard summarising the state of play with football rights in Italy and England. Amongst other observations, it makes the point that the Premier League is offering 45% more matches now than it did 10 years ago and 12% more than four years ago. (154 in 2013-2015, 138 in 2009, 106 in 2003.) To me, this seems to counter the argument that people make who complain they now have to pay to two suppliers for the same number of matches.
Just found this interesting article by Jeremy Darroch giving a interview with CityA.M.
Strarted by saying how he wanted more people to sign for Sky and then touched upon the up and coming Premier Rights.
Cant get a full link but have pasted the interesting point about the rights.
Rather sensationally, BSkyB lost the battle for European Champions League rights to its new and financially powerful rival BT and faces the real possibility of being defeated by BT again when it comes to the divvying up of Premier League rights.
Such a prospect would have caused seismic tremors in the past, but Darroch, with his new broadened Sky in the background, takes the whole thing in his stride.
“It’s just one sport,” is one of the things he says, suggesting he won’t be in the mind-set to overpay in order to deprive BT of its much-wanted prize.
There’s a feeling he will rely on his group’s expertise to help it gain the plum packages rather than simply relying on paying top dollar. After all, BSkyB has done such a good job for the Premier League over 20 years or so that it would be a risk too far for many club chairmen if it were no longer the senior partner.
“One of the reasons we are pushing the boundaries of sports production is because we want to say to people, ‘We will showcase your sport in a great way.’”
And if Sky does lose out on the top packages, there’s always the likelihood of doing a wholesale deal with BT to keep its subscribers in the loop. But if that were to happen we would be in uncharted territory, with Sky playing second fiddle in football for the first time.
Darroch will tell you the modern Sky has so much more to fall back on. But losing prime position in Premier League rights would be a big gamble.
Just found this interesting article by Jeremy Darroch giving a interview with CityA.M.
Strarted by saying how he wanted more people to sign for Sky and then touched upon the up and coming Premier Rights.
Cant get a full link but have pasted the interesting point about the rights.
Rather sensationally, BSkyB lost the battle for European Champions League rights to its new and financially powerful rival BT and faces the real possibility of being defeated by BT again when it comes to the divvying up of Premier League rights.
Such a prospect would have caused seismic tremors in the past, but Darroch, with his new broadened Sky in the background, takes the whole thing in his stride.
“It’s just one sport,” is one of the things he says, suggesting he won’t be in the mind-set to overpay in order to deprive BT of its much-wanted prize.
There’s a feeling he will rely on his group’s expertise to help it gain the plum packages rather than simply relying on paying top dollar. After all, BSkyB has done such a good job for the Premier League over 20 years or so that it would be a risk too far for many club chairmen if it were no longer the senior partner.
“One of the reasons we are pushing the boundaries of sports production is because we want to say to people, ‘We will showcase your sport in a great way.’”
And if Sky does lose out on the top packages, there’s always the likelihood of doing a wholesale deal with BT to keep its subscribers in the loop. But if that were to happen we would be in uncharted territory, with Sky playing second fiddle in football for the first time.
Darroch will tell you the modern Sky has so much more to fall back on. But losing prime position in Premier League rights would be a big gamble.
the part about the premier league giving heed to sky's 20 years service is laughable. they will go with the highest bidder and wont think twice about it. I cant see BT paying a massive premium either for all the rights but will for some of the packages. They will both be hedging their bets for controlling interest in the packages after the sunday 4pm kickoff package that BT would love to have now so sky dont get as big a say.
John Petter, CEO of the consumer division at BT, the unit in charge of BT Sport, said Sky would struggle to keep the rights to the 116 games per season it holds at the next auction slated for next year.
"It's quite a challenge for Sky because Sky have the biggest possible holding you can have - 116 games - and they've seen how BT's bid in previous auctions," Petter told CNBC.
"The question for them is, given the high prices that they charge, can they hold on to what they have? Because any outcome apart from keeping hold of the 116 games that they have is really a real problem for them."
"Our first game of the season was the first game for Louis Van Gaal. And there's been a lot of mystique about the picks process, largely I think created by Sky, I can't think how they missed that opportunity," Petter said.
"We had the story of the weekend and I think you'll see us doing more of that."
Not really sure why BT executives feel the need to talk like this in public but I guess the Champions League win has given them a great deal of confidence - just don't really see how the bravado about Sky helps BT.
Not really sure why BT executives feel the need to talk like this in public but I guess the Champions League win has given them a great deal of confidence - just don't really see how the bravado about Sky helps BT.
He is saying nothing really. His comments are off the mark for me because Sky don't necessarily need to keep 116 games. What they need to keep are the controlling first pick packages coupled with a couple of other packages. If Sky had (for example) only 3 packages instead of the current 5 they'd still be happy enough if they had the 2 Sunday packages and one other.
Alternatively BT could gobble up another couple of packages but if they (for example) ended up with the Saturday 12.45, Monday night and midweek packs they'd have a lot more games, a lot more to hype, but ultimately would not be able to grab the likes of United v Liverpool, City v United, Chelsea v City. Until they can gain a share of the elite mammoth games then they are in 2nd place.
As for his comments on LvG and United being on BT in the opening weekend, well he may be right that it was 'the story' of that weekend, but it wasn't a massive story, and we are now 3 weeks into the season and BT have used up 2 of their 5 United picks. After the signings of Falcao, Di Maria and Rojo United will be a lot bigger story and a lot bigger Top 4 contender now, and BT will be more or less excluded from any of that story bar a game with Everton in October and a few more games.
Talk about pure speculation, I just cant see BT wanting to wipe the floor with Sky.
Will still stand by what I have said in the past, they will probably end up trying to get the 4.00 Sunday games or at very least an extra package on top of their 38 games they show now but priority has to be trying to gain first picks and when to use them.
I know its not totally out of the question but for BT to end up with 100+ and Sky only 30+ is pure dream land for them.
Remember that Sky since the inception of the Premier League have shown more games with each auction (barring the PremPlus situation). It's not going to look good if Sky customers are paying the same (or more) for less games whatever the picks. Obviously this could be rectified by the Premier League releasing more games (say 180 games are on TV in the upcoming contract).
How Sky's customers react to the loss of the Champions League rights next season will be an interesting situation.
Talk about pure speculation, I just cant see BT wanting to wipe the floor with Sky.
Will still stand by what I have said in the past, they will probably end up trying to get the 4.00 Sunday games or at very least an extra package on top of their 38 games they show now but priority has to be trying to gain first picks and when to use them.
I know its not totally out of the question but for BT to end up with 100+ and Sky only 30+ is pure dream land for them.
I think Sky will be pushing all out to keep both packages on Sunday. At most 4pm. Then again if you gave them a choice between MNF and Super Sunday, would Sky choose the former over the latter given it's gained a following? They could do with live midweek football to make up for the Champions League loss.
I think Sky will be pushing all out to keep both packages on Sunday. At most 4pm. Then again if you gave them a choice between MNF and Super Sunday, would Sky choose the former over the latter given it's gained a following? They could do with live midweek football to make up the Champions League loss.
I have a sneaky feeling that on CL midweeks where there's a full FL programme (doesn't always happen but does sometimes) that they'll have a Tuesday and Wednesday live FL game.
He is saying nothing really. His comments are off the mark for me because Sky don't necessarily need to keep 116 games. What they need to keep are the controlling first pick packages coupled with a couple of other packages. If Sky had (for example) only 3 packages instead of the current 5 they'd still be happy enough if they had the 2 Sunday packages and one other.
And of course in the 2007-10 contract Sky did have fewer games, with Setanta and ESPN often having two games of a weekend, and in better slots too.
Talk about pure speculation, I just cant see BT wanting to wipe the floor with Sky.
Will still stand by what I have said in the past, they will probably end up trying to get the 4.00 Sunday games or at very least an extra package on top of their 38 games they show now but priority has to be trying to gain first picks and when to use them.
I would probably agree with this. I would think that if they wanted to go for another package, the best one to get would be Saturdays at 5.30 because then BT could "own" Saturday football in the same way that Sky "owns" Sunday football. Yeah, you have a problem in post-Europe weekends when teams have to play on Sunday but you give Sky a problem in pre-Europe weekends when teams have to play on Saturday, so it works both ways. You get a decent slot as well.
I can't imagine that they'd want massively more, though, because there comes a time when you're splashing the cash for little extra reward in terms of ratings and subscriptions. One or two high quality Premier League games at the weekend and all the Champions League would certainly be an attractive offer, especially for lighter football viewers who are much more interested in quality than quantity.
I have a sneaky feeling that on CL midweeks where there's a full FL programme (doesn't always happen but does sometimes) that they'll have a Tuesday and Wednesday live FL game.
I have the feeling you are right and if a full program of League games carry on then there is no reason to doubt that they will try a put games on, much like they do on a Saturday afternoon at 12.15.
In reply to Belligerence, I think Sky will want the 4.00 slot so at very least they can still say the best games at the best time!!
One thing BT would of learnt last year and this year is the importance of gaining and using first picks and they will not, like they are now, want to be dictated to by Sky.
The Premier League needs Sky, exactly like Sky needs the Premier League...
Sky will end up with the larger share of live games. However, the premier league need to break the new secondary live rights holder habit they've got into for at least one auction. There customer service may be ropey, but BT Sport have done a good job, and deserve another 3 years as the smaller live rights holder.
The PL also need to work out that the UK pay tv rights market can not sustain a third player - no matter how much recyled oil money bein Sport put in the sealed envelope.
I can see BT going for the 12.45 and 5.30 Saturday packages, with maybe a third smaller package of games to burn off in non-CL weeks between November and February.
I think Sky will be pushing all out to keep both packages on Sunday. At most 4pm. Then again if you gave them a choice between MNF and Super Sunday, would Sky choose the former over the latter given it's gained a following? They could do with live midweek football to make up for the Champions League loss.
As much as I love Monday Night Football, I think it would have to be Super Sunday for the chance to keep control of the biggest fixtures. The match quality for picks on Monday night alone isn't that great (I know Sky have shown some big matches there but that's only because they have first picks in other slots which allows them to manipulate things.) And if Sky lose the best Premier League matches too they might struggle to keep the MNF team together if BT or whoever try to sign them up. (Though that said Ed, Gary and Jamie do strike me as the loyal types and they do seem to really enjoy MNF so perhaps they would stay.)
But my main hope for the auction is that Sky win the best Super Sunday packages and keep Monday Night Football going in its current format. I'm not so bothered about the rest.
The big battleground will be Sun 4:00 as that's the prime first picks slot. BT could still end up with less matches, but if they control Sat 12:45 and 4:00 then that would be seen as a massive advancement. Personally, I reckon BT will end up with Sat 12:45 and Sun 1:30. That would give them first picks, second picks and CL to have a decent offering as competition to Sky.
As much as I love Monday Night Football, I think it would have to be Super Sunday for the chance to keep control of the biggest fixtures. The match quality for picks on Monday night alone isn't that great (I know Sky have shown some big matches there but that's only because they have first picks in other slots which allows them to manipulate things.) And if Sky lose the best Premier League matches too they might struggle to keep the MNF team together if BT or whoever try to sign them up. (Though that said Ed, Gary and Jamie do strike me as the loyal types and they do seem to really enjoy MNF so perhaps they would stay.)
But my main hope for the auction is that Sky win the best Super Sunday packages and keep Monday Night Football going in its current format. I'm not so bothered about the rest.
I really dread to think how much that Sunday package will go for, I think Sky will go well over the odds to keep that package alone, it means more to Sky than it would do BT.
Depending on the amount of games Sky do get/keep, a number of pundits, presenters and even commentators could have limited time on Sky.
The big battleground will be Sun 4:00 as that's the prime first picks slots. BT could still end up with less matches, but if they control Sat 12:45 and 4:00 then that would be seen as a massive advancement. Personally, I reckon BT will end up with Sat 12:45 and Sun 1:30. That would give them first picks, second picks and CL to have a decent offering as competition to Sky.
Don't think they would want to end up with anything less and im not convinced they will get the prime 4.00 Sunday slot.
Monday night would be a decent addition to them following on nicely to Champion League games.
As much as I love Monday Night Football, I think it would have to be Super Sunday for the chance to keep control of the biggest fixtures. The match quality for picks on Monday night alone isn't that great (I know Sky have shown some big matches there but that's only because they have first picks in other slots which allows them to manipulate things.) And if Sky lose the best Premier League matches too they might struggle to keep the MNF team together if BT or whoever try to sign them up. (Though that said Ed, Gary and Jamie do strike me as the loyal types and they do seem to really enjoy MNF so perhaps they would stay.)
But my main hope for the auction is that Sky win the best Super Sunday packages and keep Monday Night Football going in its current format. I'm not so bothered about the rest.
Even if they were to lose Monday nights they could just bring back 'The Last Word' -- essentially a shortened version of MNF's first hour. That way they'd keep hold of Neville and Carragher.
And I would agree with KNs47's hunch, that BT are more likely to get the early Sunday pacakge than the primetime one. Which probably suits them just fine -- a good lead in to the European Football Show.
Comments
If TalkTalk customers want a Sky Sports day pass they purchase it directly from Now TV (ie Sky) but it is delivered via TalkTalk's multicast network. Sorry, I should have made this clearer.
http://help.nowtv.com/article/Sky-Sports-Day-Pass-YouView
I think the key point is that from Summer 2014, YouView will become an open platform for live pay-TV channels. This means any company can offer its channels directly without the need to wholesale to the two ISPs BT and TalkTalk.
OK, thanks for that.
Notwithstanding your final paragraph, I would still expect Sky to continue wholesaling Sky Sports to TalkTalk after Summer 2014 - indeed I imagine Sky's contract with TalkTalk is such that that will continue to happen.
Interesting article in today's London Evening Standard summarising the state of play with football rights in Italy and England. Amongst other observations, it makes the point that the Premier League is offering 45% more matches now than it did 10 years ago and 12% more than four years ago. (154 in 2013-2015, 138 in 2009, 106 in 2003.) To me, this seems to counter the argument that people make who complain they now have to pay to two suppliers for the same number of matches.
Strarted by saying how he wanted more people to sign for Sky and then touched upon the up and coming Premier Rights.
Cant get a full link but have pasted the interesting point about the rights.
Rather sensationally, BSkyB lost the battle for European Champions League rights to its new and financially powerful rival BT and faces the real possibility of being defeated by BT again when it comes to the divvying up of Premier League rights.
Such a prospect would have caused seismic tremors in the past, but Darroch, with his new broadened Sky in the background, takes the whole thing in his stride.
“It’s just one sport,” is one of the things he says, suggesting he won’t be in the mind-set to overpay in order to deprive BT of its much-wanted prize.
There’s a feeling he will rely on his group’s expertise to help it gain the plum packages rather than simply relying on paying top dollar. After all, BSkyB has done such a good job for the Premier League over 20 years or so that it would be a risk too far for many club chairmen if it were no longer the senior partner.
“One of the reasons we are pushing the boundaries of sports production is because we want to say to people, ‘We will showcase your sport in a great way.’”
And if Sky does lose out on the top packages, there’s always the likelihood of doing a wholesale deal with BT to keep its subscribers in the loop. But if that were to happen we would be in uncharted territory, with Sky playing second fiddle in football for the first time.
Darroch will tell you the modern Sky has so much more to fall back on. But losing prime position in Premier League rights would be a big gamble.
the part about the premier league giving heed to sky's 20 years service is laughable. they will go with the highest bidder and wont think twice about it. I cant see BT paying a massive premium either for all the rights but will for some of the packages. They will both be hedging their bets for controlling interest in the packages after the sunday 4pm kickoff package that BT would love to have now so sky dont get as big a say.
Not really sure why BT executives feel the need to talk like this in public but I guess the Champions League win has given them a great deal of confidence - just don't really see how the bravado about Sky helps BT.
He is saying nothing really. His comments are off the mark for me because Sky don't necessarily need to keep 116 games. What they need to keep are the controlling first pick packages coupled with a couple of other packages. If Sky had (for example) only 3 packages instead of the current 5 they'd still be happy enough if they had the 2 Sunday packages and one other.
Alternatively BT could gobble up another couple of packages but if they (for example) ended up with the Saturday 12.45, Monday night and midweek packs they'd have a lot more games, a lot more to hype, but ultimately would not be able to grab the likes of United v Liverpool, City v United, Chelsea v City. Until they can gain a share of the elite mammoth games then they are in 2nd place.
As for his comments on LvG and United being on BT in the opening weekend, well he may be right that it was 'the story' of that weekend, but it wasn't a massive story, and we are now 3 weeks into the season and BT have used up 2 of their 5 United picks. After the signings of Falcao, Di Maria and Rojo United will be a lot bigger story and a lot bigger Top 4 contender now, and BT will be more or less excluded from any of that story bar a game with Everton in October and a few more games.
Will still stand by what I have said in the past, they will probably end up trying to get the 4.00 Sunday games or at very least an extra package on top of their 38 games they show now but priority has to be trying to gain first picks and when to use them.
I know its not totally out of the question but for BT to end up with 100+ and Sky only 30+ is pure dream land for them.
How Sky's customers react to the loss of the Champions League rights next season will be an interesting situation.
I have a sneaky feeling that on CL midweeks where there's a full FL programme (doesn't always happen but does sometimes) that they'll have a Tuesday and Wednesday live FL game.
And of course in the 2007-10 contract Sky did have fewer games, with Setanta and ESPN often having two games of a weekend, and in better slots too.
I would probably agree with this. I would think that if they wanted to go for another package, the best one to get would be Saturdays at 5.30 because then BT could "own" Saturday football in the same way that Sky "owns" Sunday football. Yeah, you have a problem in post-Europe weekends when teams have to play on Sunday but you give Sky a problem in pre-Europe weekends when teams have to play on Saturday, so it works both ways. You get a decent slot as well.
I can't imagine that they'd want massively more, though, because there comes a time when you're splashing the cash for little extra reward in terms of ratings and subscriptions. One or two high quality Premier League games at the weekend and all the Champions League would certainly be an attractive offer, especially for lighter football viewers who are much more interested in quality than quantity.
I have the feeling you are right and if a full program of League games carry on then there is no reason to doubt that they will try a put games on, much like they do on a Saturday afternoon at 12.15.
In reply to Belligerence, I think Sky will want the 4.00 slot so at very least they can still say the best games at the best time!!
One thing BT would of learnt last year and this year is the importance of gaining and using first picks and they will not, like they are now, want to be dictated to by Sky.
Sky will end up with the larger share of live games. However, the premier league need to break the new secondary live rights holder habit they've got into for at least one auction. There customer service may be ropey, but BT Sport have done a good job, and deserve another 3 years as the smaller live rights holder.
The PL also need to work out that the UK pay tv rights market can not sustain a third player - no matter how much recyled oil money bein Sport put in the sealed envelope.
I can see BT going for the 12.45 and 5.30 Saturday packages, with maybe a third smaller package of games to burn off in non-CL weeks between November and February.
As much as I love Monday Night Football, I think it would have to be Super Sunday for the chance to keep control of the biggest fixtures. The match quality for picks on Monday night alone isn't that great (I know Sky have shown some big matches there but that's only because they have first picks in other slots which allows them to manipulate things.) And if Sky lose the best Premier League matches too they might struggle to keep the MNF team together if BT or whoever try to sign them up. (Though that said Ed, Gary and Jamie do strike me as the loyal types and they do seem to really enjoy MNF so perhaps they would stay.)
But my main hope for the auction is that Sky win the best Super Sunday packages and keep Monday Night Football going in its current format. I'm not so bothered about the rest.
I really dread to think how much that Sunday package will go for, I think Sky will go well over the odds to keep that package alone, it means more to Sky than it would do BT.
Depending on the amount of games Sky do get/keep, a number of pundits, presenters and even commentators could have limited time on Sky.
Don't think they would want to end up with anything less and im not convinced they will get the prime 4.00 Sunday slot.
Monday night would be a decent addition to them following on nicely to Champion League games.
And I would agree with KNs47's hunch, that BT are more likely to get the early Sunday pacakge than the primetime one. Which probably suits them just fine -- a good lead in to the European Football Show.