I think the problem with city is that I think those players in the team that make a good team great look jaded.
Is it possible they have peaked? I've not really been impressed with the players they have signed over the last few years. They seem too reliant on certain individuals to bail them out when they are stuttering.
City are being crippled by FFP, hence the Lampard farce.
Chelsea got in, just in time to be sustainable. City are also hampered by having 'Manchester' in their name, a problem that Chelsea didn't face.
Whenever Aguero comes back from injury it always takes him quite awhile to get back on form, same thing happened last season.
Man City definitely lack a decent back up for him, Jovetic and Dzeko just aren't up to the job, for me Negredo was better than those two and they loaned him out. Time will tell if Bony is the answer to their problems.
Whenever Aguero comes back from injury it always takes him quite awhile to get back on form, same thing happened last season.
Man City definitely lack a decent back up for him, Jovetic and Dzeko just aren't up to the job, for me Negredo was better than those two and they loaned him out. Time will tell if Bony is the answer to their problems.
They do have Bony to come in, will be interesting to see if he makes the step up.
I think the problem with city is that I think those players in the team that make a good team great look jaded.
Is it possible they have peaked? I've not really been impressed with the players they have signed over the last few years. They seem too reliant on certain individuals to bail them out when they are stuttering.
Gary Neville did a great piece on this a few weeks back on MNF, (what isd new there?!) about how there squad has basically stayed the same for a good few years now, managers come, managers go, but the squad has basically been the same.
Look at how for example Sir Alex change our squad over the years, he did it very well, even getting rid of some popular players who might have seemed important at the time (Ince, Kanchelskis, Ruud, Becks, etc), but he put the team and the clubs needs ahead of the individuals concerned.
City have never looked like doing similar things, they seem happy and content to let this squad grow old together, which is something you should never really do.
At the moment with City, if Aguero doesn't score, then who is their other goal threats? Bony,well we see with him, Yaya? Lampard? They might chip on with the odd goal here and there, but there isn't really anyone else that you can point your finger at, and say, "he is going to get into double digits for goals this season".
And for a club that has spent as much as they have, is a farce really, and it is one reason why they are in danger of missing out on Champions League football next season, (that might sound silly to say, but Spurs are not too many pints behind them, and are bang in form, same with Southampton, and to a lesser degree ourselves).
They certainly need to improve and quickly if they want to stay in the top four.
Whenever Aguero comes back from injury it always takes him quite awhile to get back on form, same thing happened last season.
Man City definitely lack a decent back up for him, Jovetic and Dzeko just aren't up to the job, for me Negredo was better than those two and they loaned him out. Time will tell if Bony is the answer to their problems.
I actually agree with you here regarding your Negredo point, I was relieved when they decided to loan him out, and agreed a price with Valencia for a permanent deal, as he was I thought their second best striker.
City are being crippled by FFP, hence the Lampard farce.
Chelsea got in, just in time to be sustainable. City are also hampered by having 'Manchester' in their name, a problem that Chelsea didn't face.
I agree with you regarding FFP, they bought their best players (Silva, Aguero, Yaya) before those rules affected them, now if they wanted to replace them, with suitable replacements, could they do so?
I don't think they could, and are just hanging onto them for as long as they can, which I don't think is the best thing long-term for the club as a whole.
Gary Neville did a great piece on this a few weeks back on MNF, (what isd new there?!) about how there squad has basically stayed the same for a good few years now, managers come, managers go, but the squad has basically been the same.
Look at how for example Sir Alex change our squad over the years, he did it very well, even getting rid of some popular players who might have seemed important at the time (Ince, Kanchelskis, Ruud, Becks, etc), but he put the team and the clubs needs ahead of the individuals concerned.
City have never looked like doing similar things, they seem happy and content to let this squad grow old together, which is something you should never really do.
At the moment with City, if Aguero doesn't score, then who is their other goal threats? Bony,well we see with him, Yaya? Lampard? They might chip on with the odd goal here and there, but there isn't really anyone else that you can point your finger at, and say, "he is going to get into double digits for goals this season".
And for a club that has spent as much as they have, is a farce really, and it is one reason why they are in danger of missing out on Champions League football next season, (that might sound silly to say, but Spurs are not too many pints behind them, and are bang in form, same with Southampton, and to a lesser degree ourselves).
They certainly need to improve and quickly if they want to stay in the top four.
Sorry, but a lot of this is seriously wide of the mark.
City have won two titles in the past three seasons, and they've been in second place for the majority of this season. They're hardly struggling!
All squads have central players they aim to build around. United under Fergie had players, such as Scholes, Giggs, Rio, that were there for an eternity and always important.
If anything, as you said yourself above re Negredo, City have been too ready to sacrifice players (possibly due to FFP regulations).
Also, the stuff about City not having goal threats is just wrong. Aguero is their best striker, yes. But Silva and Toure both have 7 for the season in the league (our two first choice strikers only have 9 and 8 respectively). Dzeko has his spells - i seem to remember him coming into form late last season, scoring 16 for the season. Agreed, Bony has to prove himself, but c'mon, they're not exactly on their knees.
He's pretty much just regurgitating what he's heard this morning on Sunday Supplement and MOTD2 Extra.
Has Savage been at it again?!:)
I seem to remember City having a less than great spell before xmas - think they lost a couple of games in the league and looked as if they were going out of Europe. Pellegrini came under fire, and then they ended up on a fine run of form throughout November and December.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see the downfall of City. I just think it's a bit too soon to be suggesting that Spurs are going to usurp them in the league.
He's pretty much just regurgitating what he's heard this morning on Sunday Supplement and MOTD2 Extra.
Who me?
I have got Sunday Supplement recorded to watch after the football, and I don't watch MOTD 2 extra, so how can I have said or copied what has been supposedly said on those shows, if I haven't watched them yet (or at all)??
The problem with Arsenal is that Wenger always manages to do just enough, whether that be getting a good result off the back-end of some poor ones to alleviate pressure or sneaking 4th on the last day of the season.
Sometimes it isn't the result or the end but how that was achieved. Every clubs has bad seasons or poor patches but it seems as if under Wenger that Arsenal have been stumbling towards achieving goals that should be fairly straight forward for them. I think maybe it's the journey rather than the destination that Arsenal fans have a problem with. A manager that is in the mix and falls away in the final weeks and eventually finishes 4th, I think would be more welcome than a manager who looks like he's not paying attention until April before the final dash to the line
Sorry, but a lot of this is seriously wide of the mark.
City have won two titles in the past three seasons, and they've been in second place for the majority of this season. They're hardly struggling!
All squads have central players they aim to build around. United under Fergie had players, such as Scholes, Giggs, Rio, that were there for an eternity and always important.
If anything, as you said yourself above re Negredo, City have been too ready to sacrifice players (possibly due to FFP regulations).
Also, the stuff about City not having goal threats is just wrong. Aguero is their best striker, yes. But Silva and Toure both have 7 for the season in the league (our two first choice strikers only have 9 and 8 respectively). Dzeko has his spells - i seem to remember him coming into form late last season, scoring 16 for the season. Agreed, Bony has to prove himself, but c'mon, they're not exactly on their knees.
If you look at the subsequent seasons after City have won a league title, they never look like retaining it, due I think in part to the way that they have won those titles, they have won them very close to the end of the season (last season), and with the final kick of the season (first time), so there isn't that confidence/arrogance/swagger that you get from other teams who have won the league in far more convincing fashion.
Hence they always seem to have an "after the Lord Mayors show" type of season, and just drift along the season after.
They are not struggling, but they are in danger of slipping out of the top four if their poor recent form continues, as things are getting tight below Chelsea, and just one or two matches where points are dropped (like yesterday), and they could be dragged right into things (a defeat at Old Trafford for example).
As for their striking options (away from Aguero), I did say that others will chip in with the odd goal here and there, but overall they do not have many other that you think could get 10-15 goals a season, you mention us and our situation, and what you say is very true, but Falcao, RvP, Rooney (even from midfield), Di Maria, Mata, and Wilson all have the potential to get ast least ten goals in a season (I am not saying they all will, just that they could do), who at City can you say the same about?
Dzeko? Perhaps, but doesn't feature enough to do so I think.
Silva? He could I suppose, but his role is more about setting others up, rather than scoring.
Milner? Yaya? Nevas?
Bony could be another goal threat, but his adaptation to a higher level and more pressure, still has to be seen.
There is a lot going for them, but there is a lot that they can improve on, defensively they have issues, for me Zabaleta is their best defender, their centre-back's have been very disappointing, for all the stick that we get in that area, we have (touch wood before today's game) conceded less goals then they have, yet they don't come in for anywhere near the same levels of criticism that we do.
If we need new defenders (as a lot of people in the press seem to claim), then City certainly do as well, Mangala for over £40 million (if I have that figure correct), has been a huge let down so far, and Kompany hasn't been his usual high standard setting self, so they do have issues there, that they do need to address.
I seem to remember City having a less than great spell before xmas - think they lost a couple of games in the league and looked as if they were going out of Europe. Pellegrini came under fire, and then they ended up on a fine run of form throughout November and December.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see the downfall of City. I just think it's a bit too soon to be suggesting that Spurs are going to usurp them in the league.
If City and Spurs each carry on their recent form, then Spurs could overtake them (and us), as they are looking very good at the moment, whilst City are not, so I wouldn't be writing Spurs off just yet from a top four finish, and likewise, I don't think City have a cast iron place in the top four at this moment in time.
City are in no danger of slipping out of the top 4 whatsoever. Only an absurd extrapolation of recent games would lead anyone to the opposite conclusion.
I have got Sunday Supplement recorded to watch after the football, and I don't watch MOTD 2 extra, so how can I have said or copied what has been supposedly said on those shows, if I haven't watched them yet (or at all)??
City are in no danger of slipping out of the top 4 whatsoever. Only an absurd extrapolation of recent games would lead anyone to the opposite conclusion.
I wouldn't call it absurd, more just looking at things in a calm and rational manner, is it most likely that they will finish in the top four? Yes, it is. But could they finish outside of those places, if they don't improve, then, yes they could, things are getting very tight indeed below Chelsea, so I don't see how they are certain, or it is impossible for them to not slip out of the top four places.
If they continue to drop silly points, and other teams (like Southampton did yesterday) take advantage, then why can't they slip further down the league table?
That I have watched those shows, and that I am just repeating what they have said??
Well, if they have said the same or similar things to me, then that is strange, but it is no more than that, as I haven't seen them, so I can't comment on who said the similar things.
I will say it again, I don't watch MOTD 2 or their extra version, (I very rarely watch the main MOTD), whilst I have recorded but have not yet seen Sunday Supplement, I cannot be any more clearer or transparent then that.
City don't have goal threats, apart from Aguero, Bony, Dzeko, Toure and Silva.
Whereas United have several, especially Wilson and Falcao if they play a bit more. This from a poster who the other week said Uniteds problems were a lack of goals.
As for their striking options (away from Aguero), I did say that others will chip in with the odd goal here and there, but overall they do not have many other that you think could get 10-15 goals a season, you mention us and our situation, and what you say is very true, but Falcao, RvP, Rooney (even from midfield), Di Maria, Mata, and Wilson all have the potential to get ast least ten goals in a season (I am not saying they all will, just that they could do), who at City can you say the same about?
Dzeko? Perhaps, but doesn't feature enough to do so I think.
Silva? He could I suppose, but his role is more about setting others up, rather than scoring.
Milner? Yaya? Nevas?
Bony could be another goal threat, but his adaptation to a higher level and more pressure, still has to be seen.
There is a lot going for them, but there is a lot that they can improve on, defensively they have issues, for me Zabaleta is their best defender, their centre-back's have been very disappointing, for all the stick that we get in that area, we have (touch wood before today's game) conceded less goals then they have, yet they don't come in for anywhere near the same levels of criticism that we do.
If we need new defenders (as a lot of people in the press seem to claim), then City certainly do as well, Mangala for over £40 million (if I have that figure correct), has been a huge let down so far, and Kompany hasn't been his usual high standard setting self, so they do have issues there, that they do need to address.
Yaya scored 20 goals last season, and has 7 this season so far. Bony scored 17 last season, and has 9 so far this season (not for City but there's no reason not to consider him potentially a significant goal threat). Silva has 7, and i fully expect him to make double figures. Dzeko has been out of favour, but scored 16 last season. Lampard already has 5, could potentially make 10 (depending on appearances).
It's almost unbelievable that you genuinely consider Wilson to be more likely to reach the kind of figures you're talking about than Toure or Silva.
Your comments on their defence are fair, but no one is suggesting they're the complete article.
If City and Spurs each carry on their recent form, then Spurs could overtake them (and us), as they are looking very good at the moment, whilst City are not, so I wouldn't be writing Spurs off just yet from a top four finish, and likewise, I don't think City have a cast iron place in the top four at this moment in time.
I wouldn't call it absurd, more just looking at things in a calm and rational manner, is it most likely that they will finish in the top four? Yes, it is. But could they finish outside of those places, if they don't improve, then, yes they could, things are getting very tight indeed below Chelsea, so I don't see how they are certain, or it is impossible for them to not slip out of the top four places.
If they continue to drop silly points, and other teams (like Southampton did yesterday) take advantage, then why can't they slip further down the league table?
Just most neutrals in this err neutral thread for the neutrals, I would imagine are fairly convinced City will finish top 4 and probably top 2. Nothing is impossible, but some things appear extremely unlikely - to me as a neutral, City not finishing in the top four is such an extremely unlikely happening, however much anyone may wish to think or suggest otherwise.
As for every time City win a league title, they supposedly never looking like retaining it, well they've won it twice and this season were absolutely level with Chelsea just a few weeks ago, so that doesn't add up!
Comments
City are being crippled by FFP, hence the Lampard farce.
Chelsea got in, just in time to be sustainable. City are also hampered by having 'Manchester' in their name, a problem that Chelsea didn't face.
Man City definitely lack a decent back up for him, Jovetic and Dzeko just aren't up to the job, for me Negredo was better than those two and they loaned him out. Time will tell if Bony is the answer to their problems.
They do have Bony to come in, will be interesting to see if he makes the step up.
Gary Neville did a great piece on this a few weeks back on MNF, (what isd new there?!) about how there squad has basically stayed the same for a good few years now, managers come, managers go, but the squad has basically been the same.
Look at how for example Sir Alex change our squad over the years, he did it very well, even getting rid of some popular players who might have seemed important at the time (Ince, Kanchelskis, Ruud, Becks, etc), but he put the team and the clubs needs ahead of the individuals concerned.
City have never looked like doing similar things, they seem happy and content to let this squad grow old together, which is something you should never really do.
At the moment with City, if Aguero doesn't score, then who is their other goal threats? Bony,well we see with him, Yaya? Lampard? They might chip on with the odd goal here and there, but there isn't really anyone else that you can point your finger at, and say, "he is going to get into double digits for goals this season".
And for a club that has spent as much as they have, is a farce really, and it is one reason why they are in danger of missing out on Champions League football next season, (that might sound silly to say, but Spurs are not too many pints behind them, and are bang in form, same with Southampton, and to a lesser degree ourselves).
They certainly need to improve and quickly if they want to stay in the top four.
I actually agree with you here regarding your Negredo point, I was relieved when they decided to loan him out, and agreed a price with Valencia for a permanent deal, as he was I thought their second best striker.
I agree with you regarding FFP, they bought their best players (Silva, Aguero, Yaya) before those rules affected them, now if they wanted to replace them, with suitable replacements, could they do so?
I don't think they could, and are just hanging onto them for as long as they can, which I don't think is the best thing long-term for the club as a whole.
They clearly need to take more shots
Sorry, but a lot of this is seriously wide of the mark.
City have won two titles in the past three seasons, and they've been in second place for the majority of this season. They're hardly struggling!
All squads have central players they aim to build around. United under Fergie had players, such as Scholes, Giggs, Rio, that were there for an eternity and always important.
If anything, as you said yourself above re Negredo, City have been too ready to sacrifice players (possibly due to FFP regulations).
Also, the stuff about City not having goal threats is just wrong. Aguero is their best striker, yes. But Silva and Toure both have 7 for the season in the league (our two first choice strikers only have 9 and 8 respectively). Dzeko has his spells - i seem to remember him coming into form late last season, scoring 16 for the season. Agreed, Bony has to prove himself, but c'mon, they're not exactly on their knees.
He's pretty much just regurgitating what he's heard this morning on Sunday Supplement and MOTD2 Extra.
Has Savage been at it again?!:)
I seem to remember City having a less than great spell before xmas - think they lost a couple of games in the league and looked as if they were going out of Europe. Pellegrini came under fire, and then they ended up on a fine run of form throughout November and December.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see the downfall of City. I just think it's a bit too soon to be suggesting that Spurs are going to usurp them in the league.
Who me?
I have got Sunday Supplement recorded to watch after the football, and I don't watch MOTD 2 extra, so how can I have said or copied what has been supposedly said on those shows, if I haven't watched them yet (or at all)??
Sometimes it isn't the result or the end but how that was achieved. Every clubs has bad seasons or poor patches but it seems as if under Wenger that Arsenal have been stumbling towards achieving goals that should be fairly straight forward for them. I think maybe it's the journey rather than the destination that Arsenal fans have a problem with. A manager that is in the mix and falls away in the final weeks and eventually finishes 4th, I think would be more welcome than a manager who looks like he's not paying attention until April before the final dash to the line
If you look at the subsequent seasons after City have won a league title, they never look like retaining it, due I think in part to the way that they have won those titles, they have won them very close to the end of the season (last season), and with the final kick of the season (first time), so there isn't that confidence/arrogance/swagger that you get from other teams who have won the league in far more convincing fashion.
Hence they always seem to have an "after the Lord Mayors show" type of season, and just drift along the season after.
They are not struggling, but they are in danger of slipping out of the top four if their poor recent form continues, as things are getting tight below Chelsea, and just one or two matches where points are dropped (like yesterday), and they could be dragged right into things (a defeat at Old Trafford for example).
As for their striking options (away from Aguero), I did say that others will chip in with the odd goal here and there, but overall they do not have many other that you think could get 10-15 goals a season, you mention us and our situation, and what you say is very true, but Falcao, RvP, Rooney (even from midfield), Di Maria, Mata, and Wilson all have the potential to get ast least ten goals in a season (I am not saying they all will, just that they could do), who at City can you say the same about?
Dzeko? Perhaps, but doesn't feature enough to do so I think.
Silva? He could I suppose, but his role is more about setting others up, rather than scoring.
Milner? Yaya? Nevas?
Bony could be another goal threat, but his adaptation to a higher level and more pressure, still has to be seen.
There is a lot going for them, but there is a lot that they can improve on, defensively they have issues, for me Zabaleta is their best defender, their centre-back's have been very disappointing, for all the stick that we get in that area, we have (touch wood before today's game) conceded less goals then they have, yet they don't come in for anywhere near the same levels of criticism that we do.
If we need new defenders (as a lot of people in the press seem to claim), then City certainly do as well, Mangala for over £40 million (if I have that figure correct), has been a huge let down so far, and Kompany hasn't been his usual high standard setting self, so they do have issues there, that they do need to address.
If City and Spurs each carry on their recent form, then Spurs could overtake them (and us), as they are looking very good at the moment, whilst City are not, so I wouldn't be writing Spurs off just yet from a top four finish, and likewise, I don't think City have a cast iron place in the top four at this moment in time.
Haha, you're fooling no one but yourself.
I wouldn't call it absurd, more just looking at things in a calm and rational manner, is it most likely that they will finish in the top four? Yes, it is. But could they finish outside of those places, if they don't improve, then, yes they could, things are getting very tight indeed below Chelsea, so I don't see how they are certain, or it is impossible for them to not slip out of the top four places.
If they continue to drop silly points, and other teams (like Southampton did yesterday) take advantage, then why can't they slip further down the league table?
Fooling people into thinking what?
That I have watched those shows, and that I am just repeating what they have said??
Well, if they have said the same or similar things to me, then that is strange, but it is no more than that, as I haven't seen them, so I can't comment on who said the similar things.
I will say it again, I don't watch MOTD 2 or their extra version, (I very rarely watch the main MOTD), whilst I have recorded but have not yet seen Sunday Supplement, I cannot be any more clearer or transparent then that.
(Saints fan, so 'neutral' is pushing it a bit,admittedly!)
Whereas United have several, especially Wilson and Falcao if they play a bit more. This from a poster who the other week said Uniteds problems were a lack of goals.
Almost incredible.
Yaya scored 20 goals last season, and has 7 this season so far. Bony scored 17 last season, and has 9 so far this season (not for City but there's no reason not to consider him potentially a significant goal threat). Silva has 7, and i fully expect him to make double figures. Dzeko has been out of favour, but scored 16 last season. Lampard already has 5, could potentially make 10 (depending on appearances).
It's almost unbelievable that you genuinely consider Wilson to be more likely to reach the kind of figures you're talking about than Toure or Silva.
Your comments on their defence are fair, but no one is suggesting they're the complete article.
No one has done that.
Just most neutrals in this err neutral thread for the neutrals, I would imagine are fairly convinced City will finish top 4 and probably top 2. Nothing is impossible, but some things appear extremely unlikely - to me as a neutral, City not finishing in the top four is such an extremely unlikely happening, however much anyone may wish to think or suggest otherwise.
As for every time City win a league title, they supposedly never looking like retaining it, well they've won it twice and this season were absolutely level with Chelsea just a few weeks ago, so that doesn't add up!