Of course booms and busts are inherent under Capitalism!
Economic cycles, are inherent in any political/economic system.
That's the way that economies adapt to constant change.
George Brown tried to plan his way out of them - but like all other attempts - failed.
(and before you jump off your platform again - yes I meant George Brown, not Gordon Brown this time)
Of course booms and busts are inherent under Capitalism!
No they're not - they're caused by excess credit creation. That's a monetary phenomenon and our monetary system is laid down in law by the government, basically so they can tax us on our private transactions and incomes.
I'll concede that, under a socialist system, recessions resulting from that phenomenon aren't very likely as money doesn't really have the same function under socialism as it does under capitalism, if, indeed, it really exists at all.
But socialism carries a different set of issues, such as periods of stagnation spanning decades that ultimately resulted in the USSR giving up on it, and the PRC (and now Cuba) embracing free markets.
Yes. Socialist societies have at times subverted the democratic process to ensure continuation of power of those in control - often with spurious accusations against those that oppose them.
2. I am talking about the elites you were talking about. So we are in broad agreement in this - apart from the aristocracy, whose time is long gone. Why are the current elite better than what you consider a Socialist elite to be?
Never said they were better - but since one of the avowed intentions of a socialist society is equality by definition there can be no elite. Since clearly where socialism has been tried there is an elite and they work to ensure they continue. The centralisation of power inherent in socialist societies just makes this that much easier.
3. Very few then and very few now.
Possibly - but there are two reasons for this.
1. However much you try and make people equal, they are not and this will always mean that some will do better than others. All you can do is ensure all that have the ability are able to make the most of them.
2. We have spent much of the last half century indoctrinating people to believe that because of where they start they cannot succeed. We say that because someone comes from a single parent council house they cannot succeed. This is arrant nonsense, it maybe harder (at the moment) but not impossible - we should be encouraging people regardless of their means.
4.Maybe you ought to work at a Job Centre. The nation will be awash with multi-millionaires in no time. Have you told IDS of your ideas?
Are sarcasm? How unoriginal. Just because all can do something it does not follow that all will. All we can do is ensure the former.Much of this has come from the socialist left - in order to justify leaving them in some kind of benefit, thus re-enforcing their belief that the world is unfair and justify their own belief that it requires the state to step in and help - however the state has done little more than provide a trap that keeps people in this state.
Capitalism will always appeal to people because it appeals to the basest human instincts.
You say 'appeal', but capitalism doesnt 'appeal' to me.
I'd say we could do better, but that 'better' most certainly is not socialism.
As before, I think science and technological advancement will move us forwards and make the world a better place. Tho' one can never elminate the evil that some men do, just be vigilant against it.
its better to be enslaved by big business than to educate yourselves in the power of the collective.
Yeah, the power of the collective in Cuba is awesome to behold. Castro and his cronies don't get away with living in the sort of opulence Fred Goodwin can only dream of whilst everyone else languishes in the slums of Havana or in tin shacks on tobacco plantations. Nuh-uh. The collective has seen to that.
Although currently at zero balance, anything I have on my credit is my choice to put it there. Re mortgage, well, I could pay it off, but there's no point with interest rates where they are currently - the money is better used elsewhere.
Yeah, the power of the collective in Cuba is awesome to behold. Castro and his cronies don't get away with living in the sort of opulence Fred Goodwin can only dream of whilst everyone else languishes in the slums of Havana or in tin shacks on tobacco plantations. Nuh-uh. The collective has seen to that.
I cant disagree. I am also certain they wont be any better off if they had a capitalist government......well they wouldn't have free world class health care and a higher literacy rate than the UK that's for sure......
Although currently at zero balance, anything I have on my credit is my choice to put it there. Re mortgage, well, I could pay it off, but there's no point with interest rates where they are currently - the money is better used elsewhere.
Well, someone appears to have left the door open...
No, I'm perfectly content with life. I lead a pretty low-key, unassuming lifestyle, that's the way I like it. I have a loving family and a great bunch of friends.
I don't see why I'm 'trapped' in any way.
Going by your examples - take the credit card one - if I go out on a mad spending spree, rack up thousands of pounds worth of debt, thus end up owing the credit card company a pretty hefty sum that I can't afford, that doesn't mean I'm 'trapped by the system'.
I cant disagree. I am also certain they wont be any better off if they had a capitalist government......well they wouldn't have free world class health care and a higher literacy rate than the UK that's for sure......
Comments
A bit like the ultimate Stockholm syndrome.
Of course booms and busts are inherent under Capitalism!
"Hey, Clarisse, don these overalls, get down that sewer and scrape the gunk off the walls."
"Piss off, I'm a star. Fetch me my M&Ms and don't forget to take out all the orange ones."
Very true.
Economic cycles, are inherent in any political/economic system.
That's the way that economies adapt to constant change.
George Brown tried to plan his way out of them - but like all other attempts - failed.
(and before you jump off your platform again - yes I meant George Brown, not Gordon Brown this time)
Well, it'll be defended in the sense that one would prefer the broken toe of capitalism as opposed to the amputated leg of socialism.
Regards,
Cypher
A bit like the ultimate McDonald's menu
No they're not - they're caused by excess credit creation. That's a monetary phenomenon and our monetary system is laid down in law by the government, basically so they can tax us on our private transactions and incomes.
I'll concede that, under a socialist system, recessions resulting from that phenomenon aren't very likely as money doesn't really have the same function under socialism as it does under capitalism, if, indeed, it really exists at all.
But socialism carries a different set of issues, such as periods of stagnation spanning decades that ultimately resulted in the USSR giving up on it, and the PRC (and now Cuba) embracing free markets.
Regards,
Cypher
Capitalism tell you its better that a bank owns your house than the state.
its better the wealthy get health care and the poor don't
its better that there is poverty so I can have a cheep pair of chinos
its better to borrow than it is to save
its better to climb on the shoulders of others than to rise together
its better to be enslaved by big business than to educate yourselves in the power of the collective.
Capitalisms success is in turning people against each other so they don't look to hard at the reality.
Well China allegedly had a Communist/ Socialist conscience, but had to inject some common sense Capitalism to begin to do just fine.
Resistance is futile!
I'm happier as a free individual, rather than a drone in your 'collective'.
Regards,
Cypher
Capitalism will always appeal to people because it appeals to the basest human instincts.
I think the OP is practicing for an interview with the BBC as a political journalist
Yes. Socialist societies have at times subverted the democratic process to ensure continuation of power of those in control - often with spurious accusations against those that oppose them.
Never said they were better - but since one of the avowed intentions of a socialist society is equality by definition there can be no elite. Since clearly where socialism has been tried there is an elite and they work to ensure they continue. The centralisation of power inherent in socialist societies just makes this that much easier.
Possibly - but there are two reasons for this.
1. However much you try and make people equal, they are not and this will always mean that some will do better than others. All you can do is ensure all that have the ability are able to make the most of them.
2. We have spent much of the last half century indoctrinating people to believe that because of where they start they cannot succeed. We say that because someone comes from a single parent council house they cannot succeed. This is arrant nonsense, it maybe harder (at the moment) but not impossible - we should be encouraging people regardless of their means.
Are sarcasm? How unoriginal. Just because all can do something it does not follow that all will. All we can do is ensure the former.Much of this has come from the socialist left - in order to justify leaving them in some kind of benefit, thus re-enforcing their belief that the world is unfair and justify their own belief that it requires the state to step in and help - however the state has done little more than provide a trap that keeps people in this state.
You say 'appeal', but capitalism doesnt 'appeal' to me.
I'd say we could do better, but that 'better' most certainly is not socialism.
As before, I think science and technological advancement will move us forwards and make the world a better place. Tho' one can never elminate the evil that some men do, just be vigilant against it.
Regards,
Cypher
How free are you Mr Cypher?
Mortgage? Credit card?
9-5 job......middle management? possibly own business.
Middle class?
oh yeah your a free individual.....
Why dont you ask all those people who risked their lives fleeing to the west during the cold war?
I would have fleed to the west as well.
Very free, thanks very much for asking.
Yes and yes...
Although currently at zero balance, anything I have on my credit is my choice to put it there. Re mortgage, well, I could pay it off, but there's no point with interest rates where they are currently - the money is better used elsewhere.
I suppose 9-5 job is the closest approximation.
No, working class...
That's correct, yes.
Regards,
Cypher
I cant disagree. I am also certain they wont be any better off if they had a capitalist government......well they wouldn't have free world class health care and a higher literacy rate than the UK that's for sure......
The cage may be gilded but it is still a cage.
Well, someone appears to have left the door open...
No, I'm perfectly content with life. I lead a pretty low-key, unassuming lifestyle, that's the way I like it. I have a loving family and a great bunch of friends.
I don't see why I'm 'trapped' in any way.
Going by your examples - take the credit card one - if I go out on a mad spending spree, rack up thousands of pounds worth of debt, thus end up owing the credit card company a pretty hefty sum that I can't afford, that doesn't mean I'm 'trapped by the system'.
That's means I've been an asshole.
Regards,
Cypher