Juncker "free movement of people within the EU is not up for debate"

JerrybobJerrybob Posts: 1,685
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28238945

Good luck with the re-negotiation Dave ;-)
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  • TheTruth1983TheTruth1983 Posts: 13,462
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    Good, there are far more pressing concerns over EU membership that go virtually unreported.

    The only restriction on freedom of movement should be enforcement of rules that are already in place with regards self sufficiency of all migrants.
  • Nick1966Nick1966 Posts: 15,742
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    Jerrybob wrote: »
    Good luck with the re-negotiation Dave ;-)

    Indeed.

    And David Cameron is walking a tightrope.

    In all probably he wants to stay in the EU. I do not beleive he has the desire, gumption and time to negotiate our exit from the EU. And he'll be lobbied by business to stay in the EU.

    So what are Mr Cameron's problems ?

    His backbenchers - he cannot reveal his shopping list of demands for re-negotation because his backbenchers will think his demands don't go far enough
    UKIP - UKIP might attract enough disgruntled voters to compromise the Consverative chances of an outright win in the May 2015 general election
    The LibDems - the LibDems won't support a referendum before in this course of the current parliament. But this may be a blessing in disguise for Mr Cameron. It's possible that that a bill will be passed soon , binding the next parliament to hold a referendum whose outcomes we don't yet know.
    The electorate - Mr Cameron will need to continue to use communications with the rest of the EU as a means of playing to his domestic gallery.
  • Nick1966Nick1966 Posts: 15,742
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    The only restriction on freedom of movement should be enforcement of rules that are already in place with regards self sufficiency of all migrants.

    Should restrictions on freedom of movement apply to migrants coming from the Republic of Ireland ?
  • MarkjukMarkjuk Posts: 30,391
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    Jerrybob wrote: »
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28238945

    Good luck with the re-negotiation Dave ;-)

    Was never going to happen.

    Dave thinks that he alone can change our relationship with the EU when in reality it needs consent from all 27 member states.

    Poland has even been quoted as saying it would take a "mountain of gold" from the UK for them to agree to Dave's EU change. This I consider a damn cheek by the Polish considering they benefit by having a large number of their people working in the UK and sending money back there.

    From now up until a referendum takes place the Eurosceptic side needs to get the points across that if we were to remain in the EU:

    1) We would lose control for good of our borders and would have no say at all over numbers or who we can have here.
    2) We would lose our national identity and possibly the GB flag replaced with the EU one. In effect becoming a united states of Europe with one flag much like the U.S.
    3) The Euro WILL be adopted at some point.
    4) There WILL be a mandatory requirement to move into a one European state with power held in Brussels and not Westminster - which in effect would become a borough/county council.
  • TheTruth1983TheTruth1983 Posts: 13,462
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    Nick1966 wrote: »
    Should restrictions on freedom of movement apply to migrants coming from the Republic of Ireland ?

    ALL MIGRANTS. They should never expect help from the state.
  • MarkjukMarkjuk Posts: 30,391
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    ALL MIGRANTS. They should never expect help from the state.

    Agree with that.

    There wouldn't be such an issue with immigrants fighting their way to get here in Calais if we were not so soft on handouts.
  • Nick1966Nick1966 Posts: 15,742
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    ALL MIGRANTS. They should never expect help from the state.

    Be interesting to see how you plan to stop Irish migrants from entering the UK via the open unpatrolled Republic of Ireland / Northern Ireland border.

    And what about the 75% of nationalists in Northern Ireland who are British, but under the terms of the Good Friday Agreement, have chosen to ditch their British passports and now hold an Republic of Ireland passport instead ?
  • Nick1966Nick1966 Posts: 15,742
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    Markjuk wrote: »
    There WILL be a mandatory requirement to move into a one European state with power held in Brussels and not Westminster - .

    Would it help if the EU headquarters were moved from Brussels to London ?
  • TassiumTassium Posts: 31,639
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    It's not handouts that attracts people from poorer nations, it's the higher wages relative to their home country.

    What is pennies here is good money to them, they can send it home.
    The EU is not for "the people" at all, it's for corporations. Hence why in reality David Cameron is quite keen on it.
  • jmclaughjmclaugh Posts: 63,988
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    I never expected it would be and anyone who does is in lalaland.
  • paulschapmanpaulschapman Posts: 35,536
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    Jerrybob wrote: »
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28238945

    Good luck with the re-negotiation Dave ;-)

    Juncker has already said that he is open to the repatriation of powers
    However, speaking to MEPs, Mr Juncker said that he is ready to begin talks with the UK to return “competences” – EU jargon for powers – back to the UK.

    He said: “I would like Britain to stay as an active constructive member of the European Union. If Britain puts forward a proposal it will be taken under consideration.

    “I am not in principle saying that no kind of repatriation can take place. If Westminster wants to recover competences, OK. If the others agree, it shall be done be done.”

    see http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/10955145/David-Cameron-will-be-able-to-reform-relationship-with-EU-says-Jean-Claude-Juncker.html
  • MARTYM8MARTYM8 Posts: 44,710
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    Nick1966 wrote: »
    Should restrictions on freedom of movement apply to migrants coming from the Republic of Ireland ?

    By definition Irish people coming to the UK can never be migrants - no more than an American Indian visiting Manhattan. The Celts were here long before the Anglo Saxons!

    Whatever happens with the EU have a unique relationship with Ireland that should never change as we share a common border, language and tradition.

    People can visit the UK from all over the world - the issue is who can settle here and who is entitled to benefits and welfare upon arrival.
  • solenoidsolenoid Posts: 15,495
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    Fortunately continued membership of the EU is up for debate Mr. juncker.
  • MARTYM8MARTYM8 Posts: 44,710
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    solenoid wrote: »
    Fortunately continued membership of the EU is up for debate Mr. juncker.

    We might have to vote to leave several times first though. TPTB don't want us to leave.
  • Kiko H FanKiko H Fan Posts: 6,546
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    Markjuk wrote: »
    Was never going to happen.

    Dave thinks that he alone can change our relationship with the EU when in reality it needs consent from all 27 member states.

    Poland has even been quoted as saying it would take a "mountain of gold" from the UK for them to agree to Dave's EU change. This I consider a damn cheek by the Polish considering they benefit by having a large number of their people working in the UK and sending money back there.

    From now up until a referendum takes place the Eurosceptic side needs to get the points across that if we were to remain in the EU:

    1) We would lose control for good of our borders and would have no say at all over numbers or who we can have here.
    2) We would lose our national identity and possibly the GB flag replaced with the EU one. In effect becoming a united states of Europe with one flag much like the U.S.
    3) The Euro WILL be adopted at some point.
    4) There WILL be a mandatory requirement to move into a one European state with power held in Brussels and not Westminster - which in effect would become a borough/county council.

    Some Polish did some fine work for us from 1939 too. They even have a memorial up on the A40 in West London.
    The Polish have been working in the UK far before the EU started.
  • jmclaughjmclaugh Posts: 63,988
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    Kiko H Fan wrote: »
    Some Polish did some fine work for us from 1939 too. They even have a memorial up on the A40 in West London.
    The Polish have been working in the UK far before the EU started.

    It might be worth bearing in mind the Poles fought in WWII, not for 'us' as you put it, but for their own country which Hitler and Stalin invaded in 1939 and carved up between themselves.

    Poles have indeed immigrated to the UK long before the EU existed and if we do leave the EU will continue to long after that.
  • Wolfman13Wolfman13 Posts: 1,579
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    MARTYM8 wrote: »
    By definition Irish people coming to the UK can never be migrants - no more than an American Indian visiting Manhattan. The Celts were here long before the Anglo Saxons!

    Whatever happens with the EU have a unique relationship with Ireland that should never change as we share a common border, language and tradition.

    People can visit the UK from all over the world - the issue is who can settle here and who is entitled to benefits and welfare upon arrival.

    One could argue that the Irish aren't Celts but some form of Basque however we are getting off topic as what we all were at one point of history is irrelevant to todays world.
  • BrokenArrowBrokenArrow Posts: 21,665
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    I think Mr Juncker will find he has no choice but to negotiate.

    Britain will have its opt out.
  • swaydogswaydog Posts: 5,653
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    Nick1966 wrote: »
    Be interesting to see how you plan to stop Irish migrants from entering the UK via the open unpatrolled Republic of Ireland / Northern Ireland border.

    And what about the 75% of nationalists in Northern Ireland who are British, but under the terms of the Good Friday Agreement, have chosen to ditch their British passports and now hold an Republic of Ireland passport instead ?

    Irish migrants might well easily enter the UK but the poster was referring to them claiming benefits etc.
  • StykerStyker Posts: 49,541
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    He needs to be told it needs to be up for discussion as when the EU had just 15 member countries or less from 2004 and earlier, the member countries were similar in wealth but when new countries joined and are much poorer, it doesn't take rocket science to work out that many people from the poor countries will want to move to the richer countries and if done too fast too soon like what happened from 2004 is not in the interest of the richer countries people's and that has to be taken into account.
  • TheTruth1983TheTruth1983 Posts: 13,462
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    Nick1966 wrote: »
    Be interesting to see how you plan to stop Irish migrants from entering the UK via the open unpatrolled Republic of Ireland / Northern Ireland border.

    And what about the 75% of nationalists in Northern Ireland who are British, but under the terms of the Good Friday Agreement, have chosen to ditch their British passports and now hold an Republic of Ireland passport instead ?

    I have no problem with migrants as long as they are self sufficient which migrants from ROI are likely to be.

    I will ignore the straw man 2nd paragraph
  • solenoidsolenoid Posts: 15,495
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    The EU needs to be told with firm finger and frown that the EU must be re-shaped in the way that the people want it to be shaped. This applies to all those members who want to remain in the EU.
  • Nick1966Nick1966 Posts: 15,742
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    MARTYM8 wrote: »
    By definition Irish people coming to the UK can never be migrants .

    The Republic of Ireland is another sovereign state. Like France or Denmark or others. And like the citizens of (say) France or Denmark, those from the Republic of Ireland who come to the UK intending to here are migrants.
  • Nick1966Nick1966 Posts: 15,742
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    MARTYM8 wrote: »
    Whatever happens with the EU have a unique relationship with Ireland that should never change as we share a common border, language and tradition.

    May be so.

    So when the UK leaves the EU (and free movement of people), what are you going to do about the open unpatrolled Northern Ireland land border we have with the Republic of Ireland (who will remain the EU) ?
  • MTUK1MTUK1 Posts: 20,077
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    Nick1966 wrote: »
    The Republic of Ireland is another sovereign state. Like France or Denmark or others. And like the citizens of (say) France or Denmark, those from the Republic of Ireland who come to the UK intending to here are migrants.

    No country in the EU has a right to call itself sovereign. Especially countries in the Euro.
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