Hopelessly true, but by the way a devolved governments budget, isn't "borrowing", it's their share of the money, since we all contribute and pay taxes in the UK. You seemed to incorrectly use the term 'borrowing'. Wales and Scotland are not in some sort of eternal 'debt' to Westminster because they 'borrow'.
But in reality it is a serious issue that has to be addressed. Students should be choosing their university because of courses offered or staff research. Not because a particular institute is the cheapest option.
If Scotland were an independent nation it would be bankrupt like Ireland thanks to HBOS and RBS. Its only thanks to England that Scotland is even solvent and hasn't had to rely on an IMF bailout!
If Scotland were an independent nation it would be bankrupt like Ireland thanks to HBOS and RBS. Its only thanks to England that Scotland is even solvent and hasn't had to rely on an IMF bailout!
How far back do you want to go with the 'you started it' mentality? With the oil and gas supply England gets from Scotland, there is a reason why Westminster doesn't want Scottish Independence.
If Scotland were an independent nation it would be bankrupt like Ireland thanks to HBOS and RBS. Its only thanks to England that Scotland is even solvent and hasn't had to rely on an IMF bailout!
Not even close to reality.
Scotland is a very different animal to Ireland and the issue surrounding HBOS in particular is not a solely Scottish issue. The debate is more complex some would have you believe. All the arguments are available, you should read them.
Hopelessly true, but by the way a devolved governments budget, isn't "borrowing", it's their share of the money, since we all contribute and pay taxes in the UK. You seemed to incorrectly use the term 'borrowing'. Wales and Scotland are not in some sort of eternal 'debt' to Westminster because they 'borrow'.
Your post was about the government reducing the cost to English uni students so I fail to see what devolution has to do with it.
However all public spending in the UK is being sustained by borrowing as the taxes we all pay aren't sufficient to fund it. A point which seems lost on a great many.
If Scotland were an independent nation it would be bankrupt like Ireland thanks to HBOS and RBS. Its only thanks to England that Scotland is even solvent and hasn't had to rely on an IMF bailout!
- "They [HBOS and RBS] have substantial activities in England as well as elsewhere and therefore the burden of bailing them out would have to have been shared in any case.
- “And there are plenty of precedents for that. The Dutch-French banks and the Belgium-French Banks that went bankrupt had to be bailed out jointly by the responsible authorities, and so it would have been shared.
- "When you get down to it, on the current account for the last five years at least, maybe longer, Scotland has had a current account surplus, which is currently according to the national accounts in Scotland £1.3 billion"
- "At the moment, on the current account, there’s a subsidy going to London, which is helping London"
- "You can definitely say that it [Scotland] would be better off in terms of the revenue"
- Professor of Economics, Andrew Hughes Hallett (Consultant to the World Bank, the IMF at various times; also the Federal Reserve in Washington, the Institute for International Economics in Washington, and to the UN, UNESCO, OECD, the European Commission, the European Central Bank, and to various governments and a number of central banks in Europe. Ranked top 1% of economists world-wide.)
I think in all this we are losing sight of the original point. Scotland are considering raising the fees they charge to non-Scottish and EU students. Due to and anomally in the law all other UK students are not counted as EU students and can be charged fees.
This is not a new policy in Scotland and has been in force for the last few years, all the Scottish parliament is considering among a few other options is to raise these fees from £1,000 to nearer £6,000. this is still considerably cheaper than the £9,000 that the coalition has just passed.
So what is stopping English universities charging more to other UK students as Scotland are doing?
- "They [HBOS and RBS] have substantial activities in England as well as elsewhere and therefore the burden of bailing them out would have to have been shared in any case.
- “And there are plenty of precedents for that. The Dutch-French banks and the Belgium-French Banks that went bankrupt had to be bailed out jointly by the responsible authorities, and so it would have been shared.
- "When you get down to it, on the current account for the last five years at least, maybe longer, Scotland has had a current account surplus, which is currently according to the national accounts in Scotland £1.3 billion"
- "At the moment, on the current account, there’s a subsidy going to London, which is helping London"
- "You can definitely say that it [Scotland] would be better off in terms of the revenue"
- Professor of Economics, Andrew Hughes Hallett (Consultant to the World Bank, the IMF at various times; also the Federal Reserve in Washington, the Institute for International Economics in Washington, and to the UN, UNESCO, OECD, the European Commission, the European Central Bank, and to various governments and a number of central banks in Europe. Ranked top 1% of economists world-wide.)
This is not a new policy in Scotland and has been in force for the last few years, all the Scottish parliament is considering among a few other options is to raise these fees from £1,000 to nearer £6,000. this is still considerably cheaper than the £9,000 that the coalition has just passed.
So what is stopping English universities charging more to other UK students as Scotland are doing?
The current fees charged to all students in Scottish universities is £ 1850. Residents of Scotland have their fees paid by the Scottish government.
The Scottish government is forwarding this proposal to try and stop a small issue becoming a major one. Already some universities have students from south of the border choosing to study in Scotland due to cost (£1850 for 4 years is cheaper that £3000 for 3 years). As the difference is minimal at the moment it is not a serious issue this now but with the increase in English university fees that will change.
The Scottish universities could address the issue by increasing entry requirements for English students and that could still be an option.
Perhaps but there appears to be no great public demand for a referendum.
Any polls have suggested a good majority back having a Scottish referendum (BBC Scotland 58%, YouGov 65%, and there will be others through the years).
If you believe the polls, then it seems a majority support far greater powers / fiscal autonomy (ie: no more Barnett) even among Union voters in Scotland. I see one Scotsman's article states this is consistently over 60%.
This isn't independence but it's not the status quo either. It would cause a great change to the UK set-up. Whatever way, the three London parties do not support a referendum asking such things, at the present.
- "They [HBOS and RBS] have substantial activities in England as well as elsewhere and therefore the burden of bailing them out would have to have been shared in any case.
- “And there are plenty of precedents for that. The Dutch-French banks and the Belgium-French Banks that went bankrupt had to be bailed out jointly by the responsible authorities, and so it would have been shared.
- "When you get down to it, on the current account for the last five years at least, maybe longer, Scotland has had a current account surplus, which is currently according to the national accounts in Scotland £1.3 billion"
- "At the moment, on the current account, there’s a subsidy going to London, which is helping London"
- "You can definitely say that it [Scotland] would be better off in terms of the revenue"
- Professor of Economics, Andrew Hughes Hallett (Consultant to the World Bank, the IMF at various times; also the Federal Reserve in Washington, the Institute for International Economics in Washington, and to the UN, UNESCO, OECD, the European Commission, the European Central Bank, and to various governments and a number of central banks in Europe. Ranked top 1% of economists world-wide.)
Then we have MARTYM8 and others at their keyboard.
A Scottish economist and a paid advisor to the Scottish government - so hardly impartial in his calculations.I just hope he is better at numbers than Scottish bankers.:D
Just odd it was the Scottish HQd major banks that went cap in hand to the taxpayer - but those with HQs in London (HSBC and Barclays) did not. Allied Irish Bank has branches in London - it doesn't mean the UK taxpayer is liable for its losses!
I am quite happy for Scotland to keep all its tax revenues and become 'self sufficient' - without any support from the rest of the UK. We'll see how much largesse they can afford then!
A Scottish economist and a paid advisor to the Scottish government - so hardly impartial in his calculations.I just hope he is better at numbers than Scottish bankers.:D
I think he's better at numbers than damn near all of us;
Comments
Hopelessly true, but by the way a devolved governments budget, isn't "borrowing", it's their share of the money, since we all contribute and pay taxes in the UK. You seemed to incorrectly use the term 'borrowing'. Wales and Scotland are not in some sort of eternal 'debt' to Westminster because they 'borrow'.
But in reality it is a serious issue that has to be addressed. Students should be choosing their university because of courses offered or staff research. Not because a particular institute is the cheapest option.
If Scotland were an independent nation it would be bankrupt like Ireland thanks to HBOS and RBS. Its only thanks to England that Scotland is even solvent and hasn't had to rely on an IMF bailout!
How far back do you want to go with the 'you started it' mentality? With the oil and gas supply England gets from Scotland, there is a reason why Westminster doesn't want Scottish Independence.
God help us when the oil dries up. :eek:
Not even close to reality.
Scotland is a very different animal to Ireland and the issue surrounding HBOS in particular is not a solely Scottish issue. The debate is more complex some would have you believe. All the arguments are available, you should read them.
Your post was about the government reducing the cost to English uni students so I fail to see what devolution has to do with it.
However all public spending in the UK is being sustained by borrowing as the taxes we all pay aren't sufficient to fund it. A point which seems lost on a great many.
Scotland has more than the oil and gas to rely on.
Yet it seems strangely unwilling to become independent.
As there has never been a referendum and the unionist parties are running scared of having one we do not know that.
Perhaps but there appears to be no great public demand for a referendum.
- "They [HBOS and RBS] have substantial activities in England as well as elsewhere and therefore the burden of bailing them out would have to have been shared in any case.
- “And there are plenty of precedents for that. The Dutch-French banks and the Belgium-French Banks that went bankrupt had to be bailed out jointly by the responsible authorities, and so it would have been shared.
- "When you get down to it, on the current account for the last five years at least, maybe longer, Scotland has had a current account surplus, which is currently according to the national accounts in Scotland £1.3 billion"
- "At the moment, on the current account, there’s a subsidy going to London, which is helping London"
- "You can definitely say that it [Scotland] would be better off in terms of the revenue"
- Professor of Economics, Andrew Hughes Hallett (Consultant to the World Bank, the IMF at various times; also the Federal Reserve in Washington, the Institute for International Economics in Washington, and to the UN, UNESCO, OECD, the European Commission, the European Central Bank, and to various governments and a number of central banks in Europe. Ranked top 1% of economists world-wide.)
BBC Scotland audio (9:57)
Then we have MARTYM8 and others at their keyboard.
I would disagree. Even people who do not want a split argue for the referendum to get the issue out of the way (though they are assuming a no vote
This is not a new policy in Scotland and has been in force for the last few years, all the Scottish parliament is considering among a few other options is to raise these fees from £1,000 to nearer £6,000. this is still considerably cheaper than the £9,000 that the coalition has just passed.
So what is stopping English universities charging more to other UK students as Scotland are doing?
Go away you with your facts and figures!
The current fees charged to all students in Scottish universities is £ 1850. Residents of Scotland have their fees paid by the Scottish government.
The Scottish government is forwarding this proposal to try and stop a small issue becoming a major one. Already some universities have students from south of the border choosing to study in Scotland due to cost (£1850 for 4 years is cheaper that £3000 for 3 years). As the difference is minimal at the moment it is not a serious issue this now but with the increase in English university fees that will change.
The Scottish universities could address the issue by increasing entry requirements for English students and that could still be an option.
If you believe the polls, then it seems a majority support far greater powers / fiscal autonomy (ie: no more Barnett) even among Union voters in Scotland. I see one Scotsman's article states this is consistently over 60%.
This isn't independence but it's not the status quo either. It would cause a great change to the UK set-up. Whatever way, the three London parties do not support a referendum asking such things, at the present.
A Scottish economist and a paid advisor to the Scottish government - so hardly impartial in his calculations.I just hope he is better at numbers than Scottish bankers.:D
Just odd it was the Scottish HQd major banks that went cap in hand to the taxpayer - but those with HQs in London (HSBC and Barclays) did not. Allied Irish Bank has branches in London - it doesn't mean the UK taxpayer is liable for its losses!
I am quite happy for Scotland to keep all its tax revenues and become 'self sufficient' - without any support from the rest of the UK. We'll see how much largesse they can afford then!
Lloyds?
HBOS never actually received a bail out in its own right.
I think he's better at numbers than damn near all of us;
http://policy.gmu.edu/tabid/86/default.aspx?uid=36
One where the idea of racial intolerance is openly supported by the university, the government and the population, or one where one goes to learn.