Agreed. Companies like Adobe and Oracle should not be involved in the murky world of "free toolbars" and the ilk. How about the devote their effort to improving the security of their products, which are common ways in for nasties to PCs?
Maybe, but it doesn't take much effort to look carefully at each screen before you click next.
Maybe, but it doesn't take much effort to look carefully at each screen before you click next.
Life's busy - we don't always do everything we should do. It's no excuse for major companies (making v. large profits) to be involved with unwanted crapware installs. Do you read every EULA that comes your way ("look carefully at each screen")? Nor do I.
Life's busy - we don't always do everything we should do. It's no excuse for major companies (making v. large profits) to be involved with unwanted crapware installs. Do you read every EULA that comes your way ("look carefully at each screen")? Nor do I.
We aren't talking about the EULA, we're talking about the "Do you want to install the Ask Toolbar" with a picture and a checkbox.
I suppose when you go to a drivethrough and they ask you "Do you the offer of another box meal for an extra £6 ?" you just say "yes" because you're "too busy"?
"Margaret! (shouts) they've done it again, we've got twice the food we ordered"... "and they've charged us for it"
Life's busy - we don't always do everything we should do. It's no excuse for major companies (making v. large profits) to be involved with unwanted crapware installs. Do you read every EULA that comes your way ("look carefully at each screen")? Nor do I.
Obviously I don't read the EULA. I was talking about the screens where tickboxes for toolbars and whatnot might be.
We aren't talking about the EULA, we're talking about the "Do you want to install the Ask Toolbar" with a picture and a checkbox.
Doesn't matter, it's all part of the same thing - sharp practice. What do you think is the ratio of people who *want* the Ask toolbar (or whatever) on their system versus the ratio of those who end up with it? Do you think the Ask toolbar benefits the end user more, or Oracle/Adobe/etc. more? Why do you think the crapware is opted in rather than out?
Doesn't matter, it's all part of the same thing - sharp practice. What do you think is the ratio of people who *want* the Ask toolbar (or whatever) on their system versus the ratio of those who end up with it? Do you think the Ask toolbar benefits the end user more, or Oracle/Adobe/etc. more? Why do you think the crapware is opted in rather than out?
I was only replying to your ridiculous point comparing a page on the install screen with sitting and reading the EULA.
That's what you get with commercially produced free software, Mozilla Firefox sells your start page to whoever pays the most, it used to be Google, now it's Yahoo! that pay Mozilla the $300M to go towards producing the software.
Java and Flash offer optional browser plugins to change the search provider eg: Ask, how else do you think they are able to pay the developers if the software is free? Would you prefer to pay £2.99 for Java and £4.99 for flash?
So we've learned that when installing totally free software, you may have to read and uncheck a box during install as that is how it is funded. If you don't like that it's best not to install the commercial product and to sort yourself out with an alternative.
Java and Flash offer optional browser plugins to change the search provider eg: Ask, how else do you think they are able to pay the developers if the software is free? Would you prefer to pay £2.99 for Java and £4.99 for flash?].
I expect these big companies to make these bits of software free, i.e. subsidised by their paid-for corporate products. Your opinion obviously differs, but I don't find toolbars and similar opted-in-by-default crapware to be particularly moral when your company is making millions.
In any case, invariably these end-user plugins require expensive developer tools at the developer end. That's where the money can and should be made.
I expect these big companies to make these bits of software free, i.e. subsidised by their paid-for corporate products. Your opinion obviously differs, but I don't find toolbars and similar opted-in-by-default crapware to be particularly moral when your company is making millions.
In any case, invariably these end-user plugins require expensive developer tools at the developer end. That's where the money can and should be made.
I'm sorry run that by me again? you 'expect' big companies to make 'bits' (by the way I'd hardly call Adbobe flash or Java 'bits' of software) for free so that you can use them and they fund it from other profitable areas of the business? Have you gone completely mad?
I have already explained that the majority of commercial "free" software is funded through advertising, changing your search provider (in the case of Mozilla Firefox) or selling your data or habits to 3rd parties in the case of Google.
With Google 90% of websites on the internet have tracking code in that links your Google cookies and tracks you from place to place to builds up a profile of you. The contents of this profile, the contents of your emails, the maps and everything else you get for free helps Google build your profile to sell adwords and present ads to you on behalf of third parties. In this case you are the product being sold, not the customer. In the example in this thread, it is a toolbar that is being 'offered' not forced as it is optional. This is what funds the free commercial software, if you read the install screens it is clear that you don't have to install it.
I'm sorry run that by me again? you 'expect' big companies to make 'bits' (by the way I'd hardly call Adbobe flash or Java 'bits' of software) for free so that you can use them and they fund it from other profitable areas of the business? Have you gone completely mad?
I have already explained that the majority of commercial "free" software is funded through advertising, changing your search provider (in the case of Mozilla Firefox) or selling your data or habits to 3rd parties in the case of Google.
With Google 90% of websites on the internet have tracking code in that links your Google cookies and tracks you from place to place to builds up a profile of you. The contents of this profile, the contents of your emails, the maps and everything else you get for free helps Google build your profile to sell adwords and present ads to you on behalf of third parties. In this case you are the product being sold, not the customer. In the example in this thread, it is a toolbar that is being 'offered' not forced as it is optional. This is what funds the free commercial software, if you read the install screens it is clear that you don't have to install it.
I don`t remember a clear window popping up during the Java download saying "DO YOU WANT TO INSTALL THE ASK TOOLBAR ? (this is not necessary for the Java download)"........ If it asked me at all it`d have been hidden away somewhere like you have know to mess about going through a custom install and manually deselecting it. Basically slipping the ASK toolbar in is dodgy business practice, I`ve just deleted Java altogether from my PC. My Father in law had loads of crap on his PC much of which I reckon was installed in a similar way to this Java/Ask con. Most people know even less than I do about PCs so it`s really bad they`re being exploited like this.
I don`t remember a clear window popping up during the Java download saying "DO YOU WANT TO INSTALL THE ASK TOOLBAR ? (this is not necessary for the Java download)"........ If it asked me at all it`d have been hidden away somewhere like you have know to mess about going through a custom install and manually deselecting it. Basically slipping the ASK toolbar in is dodgy business practice, I`ve just deleted Java altogether from my PC. My Father in law had loads of crap on his PC much of which I reckon was installed in a similar way to this Java/Ask con. Most people know even less than I do about PCs so it`s really bad they`re being exploited like this.
I'm not sure why you are not seeing the option to not install the ASK toolbar. It always appears in a large box, in large bold type whenever I update java.
I see the box that's shown at the top of this article:-
I expect these big companies to make these bits of software free, i.e. subsidised by their paid-for corporate products. Your opinion obviously differs, but I don't find toolbars and similar opted-in-by-default crapware to be particularly moral when your company is making millions.
In any case, invariably these end-user plugins require expensive developer tools at the developer end. That's where the money can and should be made.
I don't like what they do either (as I've said above) but I wouldn't necessarily call it "immoral." They have a right to do it and if we're not happy we can seek alternatives (there are various sites which offer such software in a minimal way, one was mentioned in this thread) or just not use their software.
No, you still have to click through to complete the installs, hence you still have the option.
Fair enough. I always set mine to manual check so I can decide when to update so wasn't sure if the auto update just completed the whole procedure on their own.
One time when I was visiting my mum, I noticed a Chrome shortcut on her desktop and was convinced this was due to Avast! automatically updating itself to a new version and downloading Chrome by default.
I was only replying to your ridiculous point comparing a page on the install screen with sitting and reading the EULA.
That's what you get with commercially produced free software, Mozilla Firefox sells your start page to whoever pays the most, it used to be Google, now it's Yahoo! that pay Mozilla the $300M to go towards producing the software.
Java and Flash offer optional browser plugins to change the search provider eg: Ask, how else do you think they are able to pay the developers if the software is free? Would you prefer to pay £2.99 for Java and £4.99 for flash?
So we've learned that when installing totally free software, you may have to read and uncheck a box during install as that is how it is funded. If you don't like that it's best not to install the commercial product and to sort yourself out with an alternative.
I'm not seeing a Yahoo! page when opening Firefox after setting the start page/home page to the default.
Unless they've gotten rid of them maybe. They had them in the last one I downloaded.
Edit: Yeah, they've removed them from the software.
Is that only if the "Suppress sponsor offers when installing or updating Java" is ticked in the control panel? Or do they just not have any sponsored offers just now?
Comments
Maybe, but it doesn't take much effort to look carefully at each screen before you click next.
I would second the use of this.
Life's busy - we don't always do everything we should do. It's no excuse for major companies (making v. large profits) to be involved with unwanted crapware installs. Do you read every EULA that comes your way ("look carefully at each screen")? Nor do I.
We aren't talking about the EULA, we're talking about the "Do you want to install the Ask Toolbar" with a picture and a checkbox.
I suppose when you go to a drivethrough and they ask you "Do you the offer of another box meal for an extra £6 ?" you just say "yes" because you're "too busy"?
"Margaret! (shouts) they've done it again, we've got twice the food we ordered"... "and they've charged us for it"
Obviously I don't read the EULA. I was talking about the screens where tickboxes for toolbars and whatnot might be.
Doesn't matter, it's all part of the same thing - sharp practice. What do you think is the ratio of people who *want* the Ask toolbar (or whatever) on their system versus the ratio of those who end up with it? Do you think the Ask toolbar benefits the end user more, or Oracle/Adobe/etc. more? Why do you think the crapware is opted in rather than out?
I was only replying to your ridiculous point comparing a page on the install screen with sitting and reading the EULA.
That's what you get with commercially produced free software, Mozilla Firefox sells your start page to whoever pays the most, it used to be Google, now it's Yahoo! that pay Mozilla the $300M to go towards producing the software.
Java and Flash offer optional browser plugins to change the search provider eg: Ask, how else do you think they are able to pay the developers if the software is free? Would you prefer to pay £2.99 for Java and £4.99 for flash?
So we've learned that when installing totally free software, you may have to read and uncheck a box during install as that is how it is funded. If you don't like that it's best not to install the commercial product and to sort yourself out with an alternative.
I expect these big companies to make these bits of software free, i.e. subsidised by their paid-for corporate products. Your opinion obviously differs, but I don't find toolbars and similar opted-in-by-default crapware to be particularly moral when your company is making millions.
In any case, invariably these end-user plugins require expensive developer tools at the developer end. That's where the money can and should be made.
I'm sorry run that by me again? you 'expect' big companies to make 'bits' (by the way I'd hardly call Adbobe flash or Java 'bits' of software) for free so that you can use them and they fund it from other profitable areas of the business? Have you gone completely mad?
I have already explained that the majority of commercial "free" software is funded through advertising, changing your search provider (in the case of Mozilla Firefox) or selling your data or habits to 3rd parties in the case of Google.
With Google 90% of websites on the internet have tracking code in that links your Google cookies and tracks you from place to place to builds up a profile of you. The contents of this profile, the contents of your emails, the maps and everything else you get for free helps Google build your profile to sell adwords and present ads to you on behalf of third parties. In this case you are the product being sold, not the customer. In the example in this thread, it is a toolbar that is being 'offered' not forced as it is optional. This is what funds the free commercial software, if you read the install screens it is clear that you don't have to install it.
I don`t remember a clear window popping up during the Java download saying "DO YOU WANT TO INSTALL THE ASK TOOLBAR ? (this is not necessary for the Java download)"........ If it asked me at all it`d have been hidden away somewhere like you have know to mess about going through a custom install and manually deselecting it. Basically slipping the ASK toolbar in is dodgy business practice, I`ve just deleted Java altogether from my PC. My Father in law had loads of crap on his PC much of which I reckon was installed in a similar way to this Java/Ask con. Most people know even less than I do about PCs so it`s really bad they`re being exploited like this.
I see the box that's shown at the top of this article:-
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2045012/pushy-java-installs-enable-toolbar-installations-that-few-people-want-report-says.html
Two solutions for this:
1) People need to stop being so ignorant and naive about PCs.
2) Companies need to stop exploiting them.
Neither are going to happen.
No, you still have to click through to complete the installs, hence you still have the option.
I don't like what they do either (as I've said above) but I wouldn't necessarily call it "immoral." They have a right to do it and if we're not happy we can seek alternatives (there are various sites which offer such software in a minimal way, one was mentioned in this thread) or just not use their software.
Fair enough. I always set mine to manual check so I can decide when to update so wasn't sure if the auto update just completed the whole procedure on their own.
One time when I was visiting my mum, I noticed a Chrome shortcut on her desktop and was convinced this was due to Avast! automatically updating itself to a new version and downloading Chrome by default.
I'm not seeing a Yahoo! page when opening Firefox after setting the start page/home page to the default.
It was switched in November, if you install a fresh install now you'd get Yahoo, if you have chosen to change it to Google it will stay on Google.
http://www.fastcompany.com/3040702/fast-feed/yahoo-steals-search-share-from-google-following-deal-with-mozilla
Unless they've gotten rid of them maybe. They had them in the last one I downloaded.
Edit: Yeah, they've removed them from the software.
Is that only if the "Suppress sponsor offers when installing or updating Java" is ticked in the control panel? Or do they just not have any sponsored offers just now?