Andreas Lubitz, evil or ill?

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  • PrinceOfDenmarkPrinceOfDenmark Posts: 2,761
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    Mental illness covers a vast area, and does not carry a get out of jail card to cover any actions.

    If you are suggesting it is, then that is an insult to the many people with such problems that can carry on a normal life without resorting to things such as this.

    There was planning involved here from someone who knew exactly what he was doing. No excuses.
    You have no evidence of that. How could he plan for the pilot not to go to the toilet before take-off and thus give him such an opportunity during the flight?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 897
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    Clearly we need to do a lot more in this country to educate people on the realities of mental illness.

    I have a mental illness but I believe people can be evil and born bad.
  • benjaminibenjamini Posts: 32,066
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    You have no evidence of that. How could he plan for the pilot not to go to the toilet before take-off and thus give him such an opportunity during the flight?

    But we don't know that he didn't have several plans for downing the plane do we ? Don't know enough about it but presumably he possibly had alternatives?
  • Deep PurpleDeep Purple Posts: 63,255
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    You have no evidence of that. How could he plan for the pilot not to go to the toilet before take-off and thus give him such an opportunity during the flight?

    You can make up as many excuses as you like for him, but his planning started when he knew his days were up, because of his problems.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1,567
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    He might have had to wait many weeks for this opportunity to arise, at last the day had come when he knew the chances were good of his captain leaving the flight deck for a toilet break.

    But, it's true, I can't believe Lubitz planned it forTHAT day, the happenstance of the captain not going to the toilet in Barcelona was the clincher otherwise it would've been an uneventfull flight.

    God save us all from Hell that the fate of 149 lives was decided by a man's need to urinate.
  • calamitycalamity Posts: 12,894
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    He might have had to wait many weeks for this opportunity to arise, at last the day had come when he knew the chances were good of his captain leaving the flight deck for a toilet break.

    But, it's true, I can't believe Lubitz planned it forTHAT day, the happenstance of the captain not going to the toilet in Barcelona was the clincher otherwise it would've been an uneventfull flight.

    God save us all from Hell that the fate of 149 lives was decided by a man's need to urinate.
    Ive been waiting for this.. the blame being shifted on someone else.. god help the pilot for needing to go to the toilet, he didnt crash the plane killing all those passengers. this selfish madman did.. thats like blaming the teachers in the Dunblane school for not locking all the doors when the mad gunman shot and killed many before killing himesel.. he was to blame.. no one else
  • The PrumeisterThe Prumeister Posts: 22,398
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    PoppySeed wrote: »
    I do sympathise it's just sometimes difficult to always feel supportive when you know time with a friend means listening yet again to it without any interest being shown for anyone else. I totally get that it must be horrible to suffer from it but I don't understand when someone defines their whole being by it, but I don't suffer from depression so it's hard for me to get into that mindset, even though I have had several pretty big, potentially depression inducing events happen in my life. Isn't it caused by a chemical imbalance (serotonin) rather than actual events?



    Would you be so dismissive if a friend was suffering from cancer?
  • PrinceOfDenmarkPrinceOfDenmark Posts: 2,761
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    You can make up as many excuses as you like for him, but his planning started when he knew his days were up, because of his problems.

    As I said before - you need to learn a bit more about mental illness :(
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 897
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    As I said before - you need to learn a bit more about mental illness :(

    What about the possibility that you can be mentally ill AND "evil" at the same time?
  • Ethel_FredEthel_Fred Posts: 34,127
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    Apparently - according to (who else) the Mail - its all the fault of the Nazis
  • jzeejzee Posts: 25,498
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    Ethel_Fred wrote: »
    Apparently - according to (who else) the Mail - its all the fault of the Nazis
    CNN said that too ;-). Basically there is a paranoia about making mental health public due to the Nazi's persecution of the mentally ill.
  • grimtales1grimtales1 Posts: 46,685
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    If he was suffering from depression/burnout why kill so many people? He's a murderer :mad:
    I'd say there was definitely something wrong with him and he must have some realisation of what he did when he locked the pilot out.
    Cant say if he was motivated by evil though
  • Deep PurpleDeep Purple Posts: 63,255
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    As I said before - you need to learn a bit more about mental illness :(

    And you need to stop making excuses. He knew what he was doing.
  • Ethel_FredEthel_Fred Posts: 34,127
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    jzee wrote: »
    CNN said that too ;-). Basically there is a paranoia about making mental health public due to the Nazi's persecution of the mentally ill.

    The Heil had a different tack - that privacy laws prevented it.
  • jzeejzee Posts: 25,498
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    Ethel_Fred wrote: »
    The Heil had a different tack - that privacy laws prevented it.
    Same tack as on CNN, the privacy laws are there because of the horrors of the Nazi era.
  • AddisonianAddisonian Posts: 16,377
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    As I said before - you need to learn a bit more about mental illness :(
    And you need to stop trying to defend a heinous murderer.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 897
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    Addisonian wrote: »
    And you need to stop trying to defend a heinous murderer.

    I'm always amazed no matter how vile a crime, apologists will still rock up to do their thing. It's like a sickness in itself to me.
  • Jim_McIntoshJim_McIntosh Posts: 5,866
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    Ethel_Fred wrote: »
    Apparently - according to (who else) the Mail - its all the fault of the Nazis

    They've incriminated themselves! Bloody hell!
  • gamzattiwoogamzattiwoo Posts: 3,639
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    A person can be clinically depressed in despair and want to end their lives as they can't bear to suffer their distress and misery anymore. A tragic state of affairs so they decide to end it.
    But to consciously decide to take 149 innocent people with you shows rational thought outside your own misery.
    This man was evil and his depression caused him to act on it.
  • Aurora13Aurora13 Posts: 30,243
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    jzee wrote: »
    Same tack as on CNN, the privacy laws are there because of the horrors of the Nazi era.

    Mail are getting their stories from CNN. They must have television on in corner.
  • KapellmeisterKapellmeister Posts: 41,322
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    A person can be clinically depressed in despair and want to end their lives as they can't bear to suffer their distress and misery anymore. A tragic state of affairs so they decide to end it.
    But to consciously decide to take 149 innocent people with you shows rational thought outside your own misery.
    This man was evil and his depression caused him to act on it.

    I agree completely. Just an evil, evil act. To use his alleged mental illnesses as an excuse is akin to explaining away other atrocities as mere psychological aberrations. Yes, he had issues (who doesn't) but to kill so many people in such a calculated manner is just evil.
  • KirkfnwKirkfnw Posts: 1,613
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    I like how people are taking knocks at mental illness. No thoughts on how that person feels and the stigma attached to it at all. I personally am tired of people who don't understand how utterly rotten it feels to have chronic anxiety symptoms and treat them like it's an "excuse". I am disgusted at how people feel they have earnt the right to question my illness like it doesn't exist. People lose jobs and their lives and are expected to function with normality. Chances are this pilot had the same thing happen to him and he felt no one understood, therefore his delusions got worse until he actually played out his revenge on society.
  • benjaminibenjamini Posts: 32,066
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    Kirkfnw wrote: »
    I like how people are taking knocks at mental illness. No thoughts on how that person feels and the stigma attached to it at all. I personally am tired of people who don't understand how utterly rotten it feels to have chronic anxiety symptoms and treat them like it's an "excuse". I am disgusted at how people feel they have earnt the right to question my illness like it doesn't exist. People lose jobs and their lives and are expected to function with normality. Chances are this pilot had the same thing happen to him and he felt no one understood, therefore his delusions got worse until he actually played out his revenge on society.

    Well I disagree, this guy and what he did has done, has done no favours for those decent honest people who suffer from , and work with mental health agencies.
    His deceit has brought mental illness into the spotlight, and not in a good way.
    Millions battle and cope with mental illness on a day to day basis. It's not people on here or out there>>> that commited this heinous crime . He had choices , depression does not remove moral responsibility .
  • KirkfnwKirkfnw Posts: 1,613
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    benjamini wrote: »
    Well I disagree, this guy and what he did has done, has done no favours for those decent honest people who suffer from , and work with mental health agencies.
    His deceit has brought mental illness into the spotlight, and not in a good way.
    Millions battle and cope with mental illness on a day to day basis. It's not people on here or out there>>> that commited this heinous crime . He had choices , depression does not remove moral responsibility .

    Depression can develop into other mental illnesses, including paranoid schizophrenia -the person can be found not guilty by reason of insanity. So the courts do not support your theory that by having a debilitating illness you are in your right mind to distinguish what is responsibility.
  • zx50zx50 Posts: 91,227
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    Kirkfnw wrote: »
    I like how people are taking knocks at mental illness. No thoughts on how that person feels and the stigma attached to it at all. I personally am tired of people who don't understand how utterly rotten it feels to have chronic anxiety symptoms and treat them like it's an "excuse". I am disgusted at how people feel they have earnt the right to question my illness like it doesn't exist. People lose jobs and their lives and are expected to function with normality. Chances are this pilot had the same thing happen to him and he felt no one understood, therefore his delusions got worse until he actually played out his revenge on society.

    I'm not sure he would have been able to hide that if he had it all the time. Besides, he had written a note some time before flying that day and, according to the news, it mentioned nothing about any condition that he had that wasn't understood, but only that he wanted the system to change and that he would be remembered.
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