FAO djfunnyman,
with the football league stating that they take two years to compile the fixtures lists,
why do think the football league got
Nottingham Forest v Rotherham and
Notts County v Mansfield both on the same day (15 August) so wrong?
I know that it is because the Ashes are at Trent Bridge on the 8th/9th August therefore neither County or Forest can be at home on the first day. On 9th April County are at home to Stevenage and Forest at home to Brighton in a rematch of the 1st day
No idea who thought scheduling Mansfield at home for the first home game of the season and making us wait for April for the return fixture was a good idea
Thanks for the synopsis of what Football Focus (used to) do in terms of Football League coverage. I don't think I watched FF once last season, but I've found the features and round-ups to make it a decent programme on the rare occasions I've seen it in previous seasons.
Clearly though you are looking at it from the point of view of a casual football fan, perhaps someone who relishes every bit of football available on terrestrial television but doesn't attend many games or watch matches live on subscription television. To the people who are looking for more than a mere advert for the Football League, the Football Focus offering is almost irrelevant given that the programme airs at a time when many are making their way to a match or are watching the live Championship fixture it goes head-to-head with. That it's not available on a catch-up service doesn't help either. I do think there is scope for something more than just the main weekend highlights programme for more dedicated fans, of which there are many. And who's to say that such a show would be lacking in context or be any more boring than a programme containing reams of Premier League punditry?
I've never met anyone who had any enthusiasm for the Football League offering on Football Focus, but the ITV Soccer Night and BBC Late Kick Off regional magazine programmes were popular among quite a few of the people who support league clubs that I know. Obviously Channel 5 aren't in a position to broadcast any regional content, but a national FL magazine show would be welcome. A 30 minute programme primarily devoted to league matters is more valuable than a small section of a more general show in an awkward timeslot from my perspective.
On a separate note - this wouldn't be a Digital Spy Football League TV thread without djfunnyman suggesting random Notts County games that Sky Sports could televise. I wonder which team he supports? ;-)
Not random games at all. Both the Notts County games I suggested were for international weekends when there is no Prem football
No idea who thought scheduling Mansfield at home for the first home game of the season and making us wait for April for the return fixture was a good idea
It's the same for all four divisions - and is even odder when you consider the return leg of the Boxing Day games are six weeks later.
It was only really Paul Wall-ker who made a Horlicks of pronouncing Walsall and even he got better towards the end of The Football League Show's run.
It depends on the voiceover reporters they use of course, so hopefully they continue to employ the mostly very strong freelancers the BBC used. In particular I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the excellent Dave Beckett continues his lengthy run voicing the terrestrial Football League highlights, with him going back to the ITV Football League Extra days in the 1990s.
Not random games at all. Both the Notts County games I suggested were for international weekends when there is no Prem football
Fair enough, highlighting games from League One and Two that are taking place during the international break makes sense, as these are the windows Sky Sports will use to show the majority of their lower league live games prior to the Play-Offs due to the absence of Championship as well as Premier League football.
But typically the games they'll go with are either matches involving teams at the top of the two divisions (which obviously can't be called until nearer the time), local derbies or perhaps the odd game involving clubs with significantly large fanbases (with Sheffield United perhaps being the best supported lower league club at the moment). The two Notts County games taking place during the first two international breaks of this season, at home to Crawley and Plymouth, certainly don't tick the local derby box and at this stage both would be classed as fairly random and thus unlikely TV picks.
Don't get me wrong, this isn't a criticism - I find your championing of every potential Magpies TV games pretty endearing.
It's the same for all four divisions - and is even odder when you consider the return leg of the Boxing Day games are six weeks later.
In terms of reverse fixtures, although it's not normally the Boxing Day games that are played in reverse a few weeks later, I've noticed every year when I look at my own teams fixture list (Huddersfield) that we always play 1 team twice in the space of 3-6 weeks around December/January time, maybe pushing into February, but it does always seem to be 1 fixture a season where you play the same time twice in the space of about 6 weeks either side of Christmas, which is a little bit odd I suppose, but it does happen more or less every year.
There are 24 teams in the league. On the first day of the season, 12 teams are at home and 12 away.
Every team plays each other team twice in the league, once at home and once away. There are 23 other teams in the league, so this gives a total of 46 fixtures.
Assuming a fixture list on the first day of the season is this:
Team 1 v Team 2
Team 3 v Team 4 etc, all the way through until
Team 23 v Team 24
then all the odd numbered teams are at home, with all the even numbered teams away.
All the odd numbered teams can't play home, away, home, away etc until the rest of the season, otherwise all the odd numbered teams would never play each other.
Similarly all the even numbered teams can't play away, home, away, home etc for the rest of the season, otherwise all the even numbered teams would never play each other.
(This is of course what the teams would like to do.)
The only way to make it work is to have some return fixtures close together. It happens every year, for this reason, and is not odd, it is normal.
It also happens in the champions league where matchdays 1 and 5 are the reverse of each other, matchdays 2 and 6, and also matchdays 3 and 4 are always back to back matchdays against the same team.
And this is just the fixture list, before we even consider the transport issues on holidays, police reasons, and other fixtures in other leagues, and other events like the cricket.
It was only really Paul Wall-ker who made a Horlicks of pronouncing Walsall and even he got better towards the end of The Football League Show's run.
It depends on the voiceover reporters they use of course, so hopefully they continue to employ the mostly very strong freelancers the BBC used. In particular I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the excellent Dave Beckett continues his lengthy run voicing the terrestrial Football League highlights, with him going back to the ITV Football League Extra days in the 1990s.
Fair enough, highlighting games from League One and Two that are taking place during the international break makes sense, as these are the windows Sky Sports will use to show the majority of their lower league live games prior to the Play-Offs due to the absence of Championship as well as Premier League football.
But typically the games they'll go with are either matches involving teams at the top of the two divisions (which obviously can't be called until nearer the time), local derbies or perhaps the odd game involving clubs with significantly large fanbases (with Sheffield United perhaps being the best supported lower league club at the moment). The two Notts County games taking place during the first two international breaks of this season, at home to Crawley and Plymouth, certainly don't tick the local derby box and at this stage both would be classed as fairly random and thus unlikely TV picks.
Don't get me wrong, this isn't a criticism - I find your championing of every potential Magpies TV games pretty endearing.
I think they are both quite likely picks. Both County and Crawley are newly relegated while Plymouth are one of the league's biggest draws
On Good Friday County are at Portsmouth which is also an international weekend. Of course neither team will necessarily challenge for promotion, but what with Portsmouth being the biggest League Two team it is an obvious pick if either side is challenging for promotion
There are 24 teams in the league. On the first day of the season, 12 teams are at home and 12 away.
Every team plays each other team twice in the league, once at home and once away. There are 23 other teams in the league, so this gives a total of 46 fixtures.
The only way to make it work is to have some return fixtures close together. It happens every year, for this reason, and is not odd, it is normal.
I might be missing something, but to spread out the fixtures couldn't they generate half a fixture list with each team playing each other once, then repeat it but reversing the home and away teams? So week 1 is reversed in week 24, week 2 in week 25 and so on.
Admittedly that's quite simplistic and doesn't account for, e.g., travel constraints on Boxing Day. But it's surely a logical starting point.
I might be missing something, but to spread out the fixtures couldn't they generate half a fixture list with each team playing each other once, then repeat it but reversing the home and away teams?
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Fair enough, highlighting games from League One and Two that are taking place during the international break makes sense, as these are the windows Sky Sports will use to show the majority of their lower league live games prior to the Play-Offs due to the absence of Championship as well as Premier League football.
Not forgetting League Cup weeks (in the early part of the season) and FA Cup replay weeks (in the New Year). Therefore any L1/L2 fixture scheduled for Saturday 19th September between clubs who were knocked out in the first round of the League Cup could be switched for live coverage anytime between Thursday 17th September and Monday 21st September. Likewise with the FA Cup; any L1/L2 fixture scheduled for Saturday 16th January 2016 between clubs who were knocked out in the first round of the FA Cup could be switched to be played anytime between Thursday 14th January and Monday 18th January.
I might be missing something, but to spread out the fixtures couldn't they generate half a fixture list with each team playing each other once, then repeat it but reversing the home and away teams? So week 1 is reversed in week 24, week 2 in week 25 and so on.
Admittedly that's quite simplistic and doesn't account for, e.g., travel constraints on Boxing Day. But it's surely a logical starting point.
But then you would still have what I call a "crossover" of fixtures, so that teams both at home on the opening day of the season, can still play each other at some point during the season.
So whatever happens there would be something "odd" about the fixture list.
Onto the international weekend fixtures in leagues 1 and 2, and to me Burton v Coventry stands out as a good game for the September international break at least.
But then you would still have what I call a "crossover" of fixtures, so that teams both at home on the opening day of the season, can still play each other at some point during the season.
So whatever happens there would be something "odd" about the fixture list.
Yes, you always need to have teams either home twice in a row or away twice in a row.
But that's not connected to teams playing each other twice in relatively quick succession, which is avoidable via the method I mentioned.
Now to have each team play each other team once by the half way stage of the group, a crossover of fixtures has to happen. Otherwise A would never play C, and B would never play D.
A v C
B v D
In the champions league, matchdays 3 and 4 are always reversed, but I'll go with your suggestion of reversing the first fixtures after the half way mark with matchday 1. So matchdays 1 and 4 are reversed, along with 2 and 5, and 3 and 6 (rather than 1 and 5, 2 and 6, and 3 and 4 which is how it is done in the champions league.)
We then get these fixtures:
B v A
D v C
A v D
C v B
C v A
D v B
Team A plays H A H A H A
Team B plays A H H H A A
Team C plays H A A A H H
Team D plays A H A H A H
This is what a champions league group stage would look like if you simply reversed the fixtures. Which is why it is never done.
Team B has 3 home fixtures in the middle of the group and ends with 2 away fixtures.
Meanwhile Team C has 3 away fixtures in the middle of the group, but ends up with 2 home fixtures.
This is why the champions league always plays against the same teams back to back on matchdays 3 and 4.
On a much larger scale with more teams in, leagues that simply reverse their fixture lists have the same problem. Which is why I guess it is not done in England.
So yes it could be avoided. But having teams play close together is desirable. Besides it is not really a problem, and it is always one of the things I look out for in the fixture list. Our (Wolves) team with this is Reading this season. I actually quite like the fact we have 1 team in the league close together.
A bit relevant but the Capital One Cup games have been announced as Portsmouth v Derby on Weds 12th August and Doncaster v Leeds on Thurs 13th August. We can therefore (though it may not be relevant to the league TV picks) expect Doncaster and Leeds games on Saturday 15th August to move to the Sunday and their games on Tuesday 18th August to move to the Wednesday.
A bit relevant but the Capital One Cup games have been announced as Portsmouth v Derby on Weds 12th August and Doncaster v Leeds on Thurs 13th August. We can therefore (though it may not be relevant to the league TV picks) expect Doncaster and Leeds games on Saturday 15th August to move to the Sunday and their games on Tuesday 18th August to move to the Wednesday.
The Leeds game on that weekend probably will be relevant
Also there are other factors in the fixtures too.
Shrewsbury can't be at home on the weekend of the flower festival.
Cardiff and Newport can't be at home on the same dates as Wales in the Six Nations or other rugby internationals
Bournemouth, Brighton, Blackpool and other seaside resorts tend not to get home games on Bank Holiday weekends.
Neither Bristol club can be at home during the balloon festival.
I read a feature about 15 years or so ago about how it's done; it's a process that takes weeks and it's why it's often done by hand. (The Conference fixtures are all done by hand still which is why it takes longer to come out)
And the Bundesliga, but to be fair none of them have matches over christmas and more importantly they have less major clubs close together like we do - even big cities like Berlin, Hamburg and Munich only have a couple of major clubs, so contrast that to London for example.
aderboy
Just a couple of points,can you remember any other "SPECIAL" requests that clubs make for the fixtures
I think that in the past Northampton don't like being at home when the Northampton baloon festival takes place although this year(2015) Northampton are at home on the same day as the baloon festival
Regarding the baloon festival in Bristol
BCFC request to be away on the baloon festival weekend which means BRFC are at home on that weekend
Although some one at Bristol City a few years ago (11 aug 2007) forgot to ask to be away and we played QPR on baloon fiesta weekend
Finally both Nottingham clubs requested to away on the first day of the new season due to the Ashes taking place.
They were then given home matches on the second weekend of the new season.
All in all I think these are the worse fixtures I have ever seen for most football league clubs
The worst fixtures ever for most clubs? What on earth are you on about? They all play each other twice, and with you going on about 'ever' it implies you've gone through all the fixtures since the league began and determined yourself which are bad and which aren't. I'd honestly love to know your reasoning behind your outlandish and quite ludicrous statement.
Oh and one thing that springs to mind re not wanting games at home on certain days, I guess Leeds and Reading ask not to be at home when it's Leeds/Reading festival.
Comments
I know that it is because the Ashes are at Trent Bridge on the 8th/9th August therefore neither County or Forest can be at home on the first day. On 9th April County are at home to Stevenage and Forest at home to Brighton in a rematch of the 1st day
No idea who thought scheduling Mansfield at home for the first home game of the season and making us wait for April for the return fixture was a good idea
Not random games at all. Both the Notts County games I suggested were for international weekends when there is no Prem football
It's the same for all four divisions - and is even odder when you consider the return leg of the Boxing Day games are six weeks later.
It depends on the voiceover reporters they use of course, so hopefully they continue to employ the mostly very strong freelancers the BBC used. In particular I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the excellent Dave Beckett continues his lengthy run voicing the terrestrial Football League highlights, with him going back to the ITV Football League Extra days in the 1990s.
Fair enough, highlighting games from League One and Two that are taking place during the international break makes sense, as these are the windows Sky Sports will use to show the majority of their lower league live games prior to the Play-Offs due to the absence of Championship as well as Premier League football.
But typically the games they'll go with are either matches involving teams at the top of the two divisions (which obviously can't be called until nearer the time), local derbies or perhaps the odd game involving clubs with significantly large fanbases (with Sheffield United perhaps being the best supported lower league club at the moment). The two Notts County games taking place during the first two international breaks of this season, at home to Crawley and Plymouth, certainly don't tick the local derby box and at this stage both would be classed as fairly random and thus unlikely TV picks.
Don't get me wrong, this isn't a criticism - I find your championing of every potential Magpies TV games pretty endearing.
In terms of reverse fixtures, although it's not normally the Boxing Day games that are played in reverse a few weeks later, I've noticed every year when I look at my own teams fixture list (Huddersfield) that we always play 1 team twice in the space of 3-6 weeks around December/January time, maybe pushing into February, but it does always seem to be 1 fixture a season where you play the same time twice in the space of about 6 weeks either side of Christmas, which is a little bit odd I suppose, but it does happen more or less every year.
There are 24 teams in the league. On the first day of the season, 12 teams are at home and 12 away.
Every team plays each other team twice in the league, once at home and once away. There are 23 other teams in the league, so this gives a total of 46 fixtures.
Assuming a fixture list on the first day of the season is this:
Team 1 v Team 2
Team 3 v Team 4 etc, all the way through until
Team 23 v Team 24
then all the odd numbered teams are at home, with all the even numbered teams away.
All the odd numbered teams can't play home, away, home, away etc until the rest of the season, otherwise all the odd numbered teams would never play each other.
Similarly all the even numbered teams can't play away, home, away, home etc for the rest of the season, otherwise all the even numbered teams would never play each other.
(This is of course what the teams would like to do.)
The only way to make it work is to have some return fixtures close together. It happens every year, for this reason, and is not odd, it is normal.
It also happens in the champions league where matchdays 1 and 5 are the reverse of each other, matchdays 2 and 6, and also matchdays 3 and 4 are always back to back matchdays against the same team.
And this is just the fixture list, before we even consider the transport issues on holidays, police reasons, and other fixtures in other leagues, and other events like the cricket.
I think they are both quite likely picks. Both County and Crawley are newly relegated while Plymouth are one of the league's biggest draws
On Good Friday County are at Portsmouth which is also an international weekend. Of course neither team will necessarily challenge for promotion, but what with Portsmouth being the biggest League Two team it is an obvious pick if either side is challenging for promotion
Woah, slow down there Brainiac
I might be missing something, but to spread out the fixtures couldn't they generate half a fixture list with each team playing each other once, then repeat it but reversing the home and away teams? So week 1 is reversed in week 24, week 2 in week 25 and so on.
Admittedly that's quite simplistic and doesn't account for, e.g., travel constraints on Boxing Day. But it's surely a logical starting point.
That's what Serie A does.
And La Liga.
Not forgetting League Cup weeks (in the early part of the season) and FA Cup replay weeks (in the New Year). Therefore any L1/L2 fixture scheduled for Saturday 19th September between clubs who were knocked out in the first round of the League Cup could be switched for live coverage anytime between Thursday 17th September and Monday 21st September. Likewise with the FA Cup; any L1/L2 fixture scheduled for Saturday 16th January 2016 between clubs who were knocked out in the first round of the FA Cup could be switched to be played anytime between Thursday 14th January and Monday 18th January.
But then you would still have what I call a "crossover" of fixtures, so that teams both at home on the opening day of the season, can still play each other at some point during the season.
So whatever happens there would be something "odd" about the fixture list.
But that's not connected to teams playing each other twice in relatively quick succession, which is avoidable via the method I mentioned.
A v B
C v D
D v A
B v C
Now to have each team play each other team once by the half way stage of the group, a crossover of fixtures has to happen. Otherwise A would never play C, and B would never play D.
A v C
B v D
In the champions league, matchdays 3 and 4 are always reversed, but I'll go with your suggestion of reversing the first fixtures after the half way mark with matchday 1. So matchdays 1 and 4 are reversed, along with 2 and 5, and 3 and 6 (rather than 1 and 5, 2 and 6, and 3 and 4 which is how it is done in the champions league.)
We then get these fixtures:
B v A
D v C
A v D
C v B
C v A
D v B
Team A plays H A H A H A
Team B plays A H H H A A
Team C plays H A A A H H
Team D plays A H A H A H
This is what a champions league group stage would look like if you simply reversed the fixtures. Which is why it is never done.
Team B has 3 home fixtures in the middle of the group and ends with 2 away fixtures.
Meanwhile Team C has 3 away fixtures in the middle of the group, but ends up with 2 home fixtures.
This is why the champions league always plays against the same teams back to back on matchdays 3 and 4.
On a much larger scale with more teams in, leagues that simply reverse their fixture lists have the same problem. Which is why I guess it is not done in England.
So yes it could be avoided. But having teams play close together is desirable. Besides it is not really a problem, and it is always one of the things I look out for in the fixture list. Our (Wolves) team with this is Reading this season. I actually quite like the fact we have 1 team in the league close together.
http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=2082583
The Leeds game on that weekend probably will be relevant
But you could start with the Boxing Day fixtures - I believe these are done by hand - and work from there.
Shrewsbury can't be at home on the weekend of the flower festival.
Cardiff and Newport can't be at home on the same dates as Wales in the Six Nations or other rugby internationals
Bournemouth, Brighton, Blackpool and other seaside resorts tend not to get home games on Bank Holiday weekends.
Neither Bristol club can be at home during the balloon festival.
I read a feature about 15 years or so ago about how it's done; it's a process that takes weeks and it's why it's often done by hand. (The Conference fixtures are all done by hand still which is why it takes longer to come out)
And the Bundesliga, but to be fair none of them have matches over christmas and more importantly they have less major clubs close together like we do - even big cities like Berlin, Hamburg and Munich only have a couple of major clubs, so contrast that to London for example.
Just a couple of points,can you remember any other "SPECIAL" requests that clubs make for the fixtures
I think that in the past Northampton don't like being at home when the Northampton baloon festival takes place although this year(2015) Northampton are at home on the same day as the baloon festival
Regarding the baloon festival in Bristol
BCFC request to be away on the baloon festival weekend which means BRFC are at home on that weekend
Although some one at Bristol City a few years ago (11 aug 2007) forgot to ask to be away and we played QPR on baloon fiesta weekend
Finally both Nottingham clubs requested to away on the first day of the new season due to the Ashes taking place.
They were then given home matches on the second weekend of the new season.
All in all I think these are the worse fixtures I have ever seen for most football league clubs
Oh and one thing that springs to mind re not wanting games at home on certain days, I guess Leeds and Reading ask not to be at home when it's Leeds/Reading festival.