Many thanks for the advice I got on this thread and sorry for the late update!
My boiler is now fixed.:) The guy that came to fix it said the problem was probably caused by my new radiators not being properly 'flushed ' out when they were fitted.
He flushed them out,treated the system with Sentinel x100 inhibitor and fitted a 'MagnaClean Professional' unit, which he said would stop any further sludge build up. He talked me through everything he was doing and I just nodded , as and when I felt it appropriate ! He was a top bloke !:D
He also mentioned that he had loads of call outs with this particular boiler and it usually ended up being the same problem.
Its an absoloute joy, to once again, have a hot shower and wake up in a warm flat !
Hello Under,
Yes, muck in the system and will make the pump stick.
To make for a reliable boiler/combi have the system flushed every 3 years and inhibitor every 18 months, you won't regret it.
However your Plumber should have introduced X400 first, then x100.
Anyway your system is up running and thats good news.
That's an excellent and thorough post, thanks seacam, but it tallies with the rest of the thread and what I understand (now)
I've had a go at the EV as suggested and the engineer can tackle the pump and sensor
They're a decent outfit and I can only assume that they cleaned the sytem, gulp, not an awful lot asking them I suppose, they're going to say 'of course' suppose
condensate pipe, yes, I worked that out in the big freeze, that seems to be a comon problem reading google
Glad you've got it fixed OP. I'm going to print out this thread and keep it as I have the same problem. Everytime the engineer comes from the council he just refills the boiler so of course it lose pressure again a few days later. I keep asking them to flush all the radiators out but they don't. Last time they checked the one radiator in the bathroom as it wasn't heating up at all, but obviously they need to do all of them. Will phone them again tomorrow for the 6th call out.
The engineer has been out and after initially suspecting the Pressure sensor has now said the EV is the problem, said they're changing a lot of them on these boilers they were fitting 2 to 3 years ago, off to get and fit one now for £300
I'll ask him to check the pump and sensor are clean and ok, I assume for a professional with it already drained that's fairly easy
the proof of the pudding will come at 6am tomorrow morning ...
any idea why it would fail at more or less the same time every day, it must have been a little earlier this morning as the house was colder but by no means cold
The engineer has been out and after initially suspecting the Pressure sensor has now said the EV is the problem, said they're changing a lot of them on these boilers they were fitting 2 to 3 years ago, off to get and fit one now for £300
I'll ask him to check the pump and sensor are clean and ok, I assume for a professional with it already drained that's fairly easy
the proof of the pudding will come at 6am tomorrow morning ...
any idea why it would fail at more or less the same time every day, it must have been a little earlier this morning as the house was colder but by no means cold
Hold on, he just looked and said the EV needs changing and you're buying into that??
I wasn't there, this is based on him calling me with his diagnosis. They're the company that's done for me for fifteen odd years in three different houses and have always seemed decent to me. 'looked at' meaning have I imagine they've done a necessary diagnosis of the problem, and 'serviced it' although details of what that actually meant were rather vague from their office when I asked, 'cleaned it out'
Been and done and gone now, there were two of them. they were there at about 11.30 and gone by 1pm ish, we're on the North Circular and he gave me the impression that there was somewhere very close for the new EV
He, and the head bloke I booked with said they're doing lots of these lately as it was the boiler they recommended then, the chap today said they changed two EVs on Friday alone and completely removed one from someone else that was sick of it breaking down
umm, I kinda think that if it goes off at 6am tomorrow that they haven't fixed it and can come back and start over
the background losing of pressure form the tiny leak is still my problem
(I've just realised you were worried that it was me going to fit it ...:eek:, thanks for worrying but I promise I know my limitations)
I wasn't there, this is based on him calling me with his diagnosis. They're the company that's done for me for fifteen odd years in three different houses and have always seemed decent to me. 'looked at' meaning have I imagine they've done a necessary diagnosis of the problem, and 'serviced it' although details of what that actually meant were rather vague from their office when I asked, 'cleaned it out'
Been and done and gone now, there were two of them. they were there at about 11.30 and gone by 1pm ish, we're on the North Circular and he gave me the impression that there was somewhere very close for the new EV
He, and the head bloke I booked with said they're doing lots of these lately as it was the boiler they recommended then, the chap today said they changed two EVs on Friday alone and completely removed one from someone else that was sick of it breaking down
umm, I kinda think that if it goes off at 6am tomorrow that they haven't fixed it and can come back and start over
the background losing of pressure form the tiny leak is still my problem
(I've just realised you were worried that it was me going to fit it ...:eek:, thanks for worrying but I promise I know my limitations)
Hello Tynan,
And that's what matters.
I have a 100 or so personal clients, a few would not question me if I said that or this has to be done or something needed replacing such is their trust in me getting it right.
You know your people, you are happy, they have served you well and that's what counts.
How old is your combi' and was it married to an existing system and how old is that system and did you ever have it cleaned and flushed?
If you charged your EV as you said you had and it held, your EV didn't need changing, perhaps de-scaling.
EVs require replacing because either they are faulty, leaking or scaled.
I have concerns with any company who would replace an EV, ( unless new/faulty or an existing cleaned system ), and would not suggest or recommend to the client to have their system cleaned, did they recommend or suggest that to you, were you given that option?
Exactly how vague were they?
Were you also given the option/recommendation like Under was of having a Magna Clean installed? Although I'm not always convinced of their effectiveness or need in some installations.
My take on not recommending any of the above in such circumstances is it doesn't do the client any favors.
You are unfortunate it wasn't the sensor or pump that needed attention.
The engineer called me back and said the EV was defo at fault
He also said they serviced the boiler including taking the pump to bits and cleaning it out, also the pressure sensor, cleaned 'the traps', he correctly guess that the boiler had not been serviced since it was installed as new in Jul07 and suggested I do that in future, also said it would not have prevented this problem, blamed Valliant, he said the boiler pressure was very high although it was fine when I left the house, I bled a rad to bring it back under the red after squirting water in to get it going again this morning
they put this one in to replace a very vintage boiler that was getting very problematic, in light of your sensible questions I'm slightly ashamed to say that I have no idea what they did regarding cleaning the system at the time, I rather casually trusted them to do whatever was called for, I did have a proper quote of what was included that I dimly recall being very thorough and satisfactory at the time, I'll dig it out and let you know, the Lady wife is good with paperwork.
no mention of cleaning, inhibiting today, although I did ask the question as to whether this was needed on the note I left for him, oh and he said they replaced the PRV too after hearing that I'd been using it.
as for the EV, I let the pressure in the boiler down to almost nothing before pumping, it was at about .75, went up to 1 bar and stayed there despite a few extra pumps from a bike track pump, not sure what any of that means
as said, it strikes me as a very reproducible fault that will show ether this is fixed, granted it can only be reproduced at 6am every morning
as to whether it was something easy like the pump, fixed by cleaning it and they've stuck a cheeky extra on the bill, this one will have to be a matter of trust although I suppose I can take the cover off and look, although the 'old' one and indeed the whole boiler looked as if it was fresh out of the wrapping it was that clean and shiny
thanks for all your attention on this, i suspect I'll be starting a long hunt for the leak in the near future, does me topping the pressure up every two to three days have any bad implications
The engineer called me back and said the EV was defo at fault
He also said they serviced the boiler including taking the pump to bits and cleaning it out, also the pressure sensor, cleaned 'the traps', he correctly guess that the boiler had not been serviced since it was installed as new in Jul07 and suggested I do that in future, also said it would not have prevented this problem, blamed Valliant, he said the boiler pressure was very high although it was fine when I left the house, I bled a rad to bring it back under the red after squirting water in to get it going again this morning
they put this one in to replace a very vintage boiler that was getting very problematic, in light of your sensible questions I'm slightly ashamed to say that I have no idea what they did regarding cleaning the system at the time, I rather casually trusted them to do whatever was called for, I did have a proper quote of what was included that I dimly recall being very thorough and satisfactory at the time, I'll dig it out and let you know, the Lady wife is good with paperwork.
no mention of cleaning, inhibiting today, although I did ask the question as to whether this was needed on the note I left for him, oh and he said they replaced the PRV too after hearing that I'd been using it.
as for the EV, I let the pressure in the boiler down to almost nothing before pumping, it was at about .75, went up to 1 bar and stayed there despite a few extra pumps from a bike track pump, not sure what any of that means
as said, it strikes me as a very reproducible fault that will show ether this is fixed, granted it can only be reproduced at 6am every morning
as to whether it was something easy like the pump, fixed by cleaning it and they've stuck a cheeky extra on the bill, this one will have to be a matter of trust although I suppose I can take the cover off and look, although the 'old' one and indeed the whole boiler looked as if it was fresh out of the wrapping it was that clean and shiny
thanks for all your attention on this, i suspect I'll be starting a long hunt for the leak in the near future, does me topping the pressure up every two to three days have any bad implications
Blame Valliant, Vokera, Potterton, Baxi,---it's not an answer.
I have no wish to shake your confidence in your installers, I can only throw questions at you to ask or not as the case might be.
I can only repeat, IMO your EV didn't need changing if it was holding a charge, others may or may not disagree.
But I didn't inspect your combi' there may be other things/symptoms that led them to that conclution.
I can only re-state my post above.
They changed the PRV because you had played with it,--- using it, but you are showing an F75 EC and they didn't change the sensor having cleaned the pump,
ok.
As for leaks, referring to my earlier post,
not often mentioned is system erosion gas, this too can cause a system,--- lead to leaks or constant topping up in a CH system.
If you are satified the above doesn't exisit, then no, no bad implications just can be bloody time consuming searching for a leak, that might be under the floor boards anyway.
Try the tissue method or you can introduce a system sealer, like this, but don't do this if the system hasn't been cleaned for reasons already explained here. here.
The above product is good for pin holes leaks, nothing larger or posibly a dry joint.
Your system should be flushed and cleaned and inhibitor thrown in,
it's your call.
all cool, your opinion over a forum is clearly most informed than mine
they said they checked and cleaned the sensor and pump and replaced the PRV and EV, if it stops shutting down every morning then I'll accept it's fixed, if not, not
how do I know if the EV held charge? or do you think the fact that it showed .75 initially showed it to be intact?
their point regarding Valliant is that they say there's three different design flaws that have been changed on the newer models, and they're stopped recommending their boilers now when fitting new ones, I'm only repeating their words, right or wrong
fingers crossed the the f75 error is now history, on with hunting the leak, fortunately the ground floor has a four foot space under for me to go hunting rats, all the pipework for the ground floor is there, upstairs is under floorboards right enough, gulp, and there's some new pushfit plastic pipework under concrete for the new kitchen but that is all recent so can't involved the central heating system although we have have two old rads taken out, but that was very early work done well over a year ago
strapped for cash at the mo, the cost today stung, but I'll get them in to flush etc next year when they service, roundabout £300 isn't it?
all cool, your opinion over a forum is clearly most informed than mine.
Well
yes it is but I can only base by opinions on the information given/supplied with a few years of experience thrown behind them.
they said they checked and cleaned the sensor and pump and replaced the PRV and EV, if it stops shutting down every morning then I'll accept it's fixed, if not, not
It's no skin of my nose, it really isn't but you say they told you they had cleaned the sensor?.
how do I know if the EV held charge? or do you think the fact that it showed .75 initially showed it to be intact?
No,-- .75 is a little low, may have needed recharging a tad but the fact it was holding steady and the fact pressure was a little raised according to them to day, Professionally speaking I would question if the EV needed changing.
But I can only repeat,--- they were present, I can only opinionate.
Their point regarding Valliant is that they say there's three different design flaws that have been changed on the newer models, and they're stopped recommending their boilers now when fitting new ones, I'm only repeating their words, right or wrong.
Only three.
Fingers crossed the the f75 error is now history, on with hunting the leak, fortunately the ground floor has a four foot space under for me to go hunting rats, all the pipework for the ground floor is there, upstairs is under floorboards right enough, gulp, and there's some new pushfit plastic pipework under concrete for the new kitchen but that is all recent so can't involved the central heating system although we have have two old rads taken out, but that was very early work done well over a year ago.
I don't envy you that, hopefully you will find the leak to be a surface one.
Push fits do leak although rarely.
strapped for cash at the mo, the cost today stung, but I'll get them in to flush etc next year when they service, roundabout £300 isn't it?
Yes around £350-450, that's a Power Flush mind you.
No more then £50-00, a good days work and a little forward preparation if you DIY.
noooooooo! don;t mention diy and money saved, oh go on then but in the summer when it's warm ...
I don't envy me that either, this must happen fairly often mustn't it? a teensey leak?
no, if you don;t mind coming at this from a different angle, can you make a reason why a faulty EV might have given the symptoms that my boiler was giving, I was rather puzzled why the teeny (sometime a proper) squirt through the filling loop got a boiler running for another 24 hours when it woldn't otherwise restart?
I appreciate you're against the idea but is it possible?
This £50, what's that for, sundry chemicals or renting something?
And thanks again for all your time on this, it all rather educational
I've also had the dreaded f75 fault, and after searching around on all these forums I'm going to attempt to change the sensor myself. Is this an easy thing to do? Anyone done it before? Got any instructions or advice before I scold my fingers
Anyone know what I should do? What does that code even mean!? This has appeared on our boiler display. No heat or hot water. The boiler is still under warrenty but is there anything I can do (DIY) NOW to fix the problem...Just what you need at the weekend... Is it a call to the engineer in the morning and ££££'s?:rolleyes:Hope its covered under the warrenty and its only tonight we have to suffer the inconvienence!
Any background info , that will make me sound like I know what I'm talking about tomorrow, when I call it in, much appreciated:)
I felt I had to contribute my ha’penny to this thread because it saved my life when faced with the F75 error.
Have an Ecotec Pro 24 boiler, and had been getting both wildly fluctuating pressure problems with cut out, which was a faulty expansion vessel, then the F75 error.
Made sense of it as follows:
I started with pressure drops in my system which I’d been compensating by opening the filling loop which fixed it for a while. Then the pressure would be almost zero cold, and rise steadily into the red when heating on. This rise was relentless such that the system would shut down after it had been hot for a while. When it cooled down again, pressure would fall to zero and need refilling.
A plumber mate said it might have been the expansion vessel, and I discovered the valve on the vessel. By pumping this up (mini-mountain bike pump fits like a dream, but no pressure gauage) I could start the system from cold and as the pressure rose, by releasing air from the valve, I could delay the boiler safety cut out when pressure red-lined. But then water squirted out so I knew the EV was dead (1) .
Got and fitted new EV (2), drained system (4), added X400 (5), refilled and had heating bliss for 2 days. Then the dreaded F75 error.
Thanks to this thread, I found the water pressure sensor and removed and washed it (3). This restored my hot water, and by avoiding using the heating circuit I could bath my kids. As noted below (5) the X400 had certainly done some work as the fresh water I’d filled the system with 2 days prior, had now turned a rusty brown colour. This must have been the X400 doing its thing, but the crud in the water must have been clogging the older sensitive water pressure sensor (as opposed apparently to the newer black ones).
In retrospect, I probably should have power flushed my system before re-comissioning. I might do that now, or I might chance it by draining system, adding more X400 and doing a poor mans “power flush” .
Either way, the sound advice in this thread on the water pressure sensor got me out of a very cold bath. Hope this contribution solves a few Expansion vessel vs. leak vs water sensor issues.
1) Testing the expansion vessel
Push in the pin of the Schraeder valve sticking out of the EV (metal pillow oriented vertically on the right of the boiler just next to the casing wall). I use a japanese (pointy) chopstick. Valve should hiss, but if it squirts water, then it’s shot. Read why here:
2) Replacing Expansion vessel:
I got mine for £70 from Euro boiler parts. Replacement is explained in the Vaillant manual which is easily findable on line (Ecotec Pro 24). Remember, as advised to turn off gas and fully isolate boiler electrically (ie. Unplug or remove fuse). Also drain the boiler after isolating CH feed and return.
3) Removing Water Pressure Sensor.
Again, this is pretty easy – locate the device – either orange if old like mine, or black (apparently, not seen one of these, but am about to buy). Removing it is a two step process. i) unclip electrical plug and then remove the metal U shaped pin as in the diagram which pulls out easily (the sensor should rotate freely after this). ii) Pull gently but firmly – this was the scary bit for me as you need to tug pretty hard. In the end, I used the claw end of a hammer to help leverage. Be careful not to snag any of the electrical wires.
4) Draining the heating systems (ie. Radiator circuit)
You might have a drain point at the lowest point of your system – you might also be able to find it. I couldn’t find mine and my life was saved by a “self tapping drain cock”. This is a handy device that clamps onto and drills into a 15mm feed to an existing radiator. Ideally choose a radiator near an outside door/drain. Of course, this won’t drain the feed pipes below the radiator, but this will be a minority of the water.
5) Adding Restorer/ inhibitor
Sentinel X400 and X100 respectively. I took the opposite end of the bleed valve off a double radiator and used part of a hose pipe shimmed with cling film and a bladder syringe to feed the stuff in. From my limited experience, when I initially drained the system to fit the new Expansion vessel, the water was clear (despite having been in for at least 4 years). 4 days with X400 in and the heating running normally, the water had turned a significant rust colour – and clogged my water pressure sensor! At least it was working.
Excuse me for being late to this thread. This 'ere poster is also facing the good old F75 problem, and with a reasonably new combi boiler too: an ecotec plus, installed in 2014.
I noted that people were saying back in 2010 that the F75 problem was well known at the time and that Vaillant were back then, allegedy releasing 'new' boilers to correct this (or some such...)
So, roll on 2016, and do I really have to face replacing the expansion whatsit, and flushing the system etc., (as said above) or shouldn't this fault be fully covered under Vaillant's guarantee from new?
Meanwhile, no hot water, no pressure problem, nothing but that error no matter how many times I try and reboot the boiler.
Sorry for repeating myself, however given that this thread was bandying around figures of £300++ to fix this error, but.... eh... surely this is covered under warranty??? As it's now late evening, I can't exactly call Vailant, to clarify this point.
After all, why should customers who've got a guarantee in place, as I do, have to pay anything to fix what is obviously a well known latent problem with Vaillant's combi boilers, whether such was talked about back in 2010, or now, in 2016?
Thank you for any advice on how to take this up with Vaillant, please know that I'm just not the type to do all that high tech 'jiggery pokery' above. I'd be scared of invalidating my guarantee, apart from anything else!
Excuse me for being late to this thread. This 'ere poster is also facing the good old F75 problem, and with a reasonably new combi boiler too: an ecotec plus, installed in 2014.
I noted that people were saying back in 2010 that the F75 problem was well known at the time and that Vaillant were back then, allegedy releasing 'new' boilers to correct this (or some such...)
Hi,
Vaillant or any other manufacture wasn't/haven't released new boilers to fix F75 issues.
F75 is a known issue and several causes.
So, roll on 2016, and do I really have to face replacing the expansion whatsit, and flushing the system etc., (as said above) or shouldn't this fault be fully covered under Vaillant's guarantee from new?
Your boiler is 2014 install date, I doubt very much it is your EV that's faulty, ( it's not unheard of in such a new boiler but a rare occurrence, really rare. ).
Having written that, if the combi/boiler was strapped to a dirty system, you may well have issues but that is not the fault of Vaillant.
If it turns out your system is clean and installed correctly and you fulfilled their T&C and it is a faulty EV, then they should replace FOC and you should argue for this to happen.
I am sure I have written on this subject before but in brief, anyone installing a new combi/boiler and part of your decision making is a long guarantee offered, read the T&Cs.
Usually procedures have to be undertaken to the existing system before installation and an annual clean/service during the extended warranty period, in some cases fitted originally by one of their recognised fitters, ( not just a gas safe engineer ), a filter fitted and so on, in other words a lot of hoops and jumps for the consumer.
So if being sold a new boiler because it has an extended warranty period, it's sales spiel, unless you comply with the manufactures T&Cs.
Meanwhile, no hot water, no pressure problem, nothing but that error no matter how many times I try and reboot the boiler.
At a guess, I suspect yours is a faulty sensor, could be a PCB or pump.
Sorry for repeating myself, however given that this thread was bandying around figures of £300++ to fix this error, but.... eh... surely this is covered under warranty??? As it's now late evening, I can't exactly call Vailant, to clarify this point.
I agree with you up to a point but things have to be equal and one of those things has to be a clean system, ( if that has caused the issue ).
I wish more consumers would take up the fight with boiler manufactures and inherent faulty parts, a PCB failure on a 2 year old combi has nothing to do with a dirty system, I wish consumers would argue this.
A sensor on the other hand is a bit like a vehicle a year old and a head lamp blows, it's a nuisance but you fix and pay for it.
After all, why should customers who've got a guarantee in place, as I do, have to pay anything to fix what is obviously a well known latent problem with Vaillant's combi boilers, whether such was talked about back in 2010, or now, in 2016?
If you have a guarantee that covers you against such things, I agree you shouldn't have to pay to have fixed.
If your system is dirty, get it cleaned, get it flushed, fit a filter.
I've complied with the 5 year warranty terms and conditions, as I do have them service my boiler annually (otherwise the warranty lapses). I recall when the boiler was installed the installer (Gassafe and qualified to install Vaillant) did flush the whole system with the appropriate chemicals. But I still take your excellent advice on board.
Anyway, for anyone else who comes across this thread on searching "Ecotec plus F75" the upshot of it is I've spoken with Vaillant and mine will be repaired shortly under warranty. There is no need to pay any plumber to fix an F75 fault provided you are also covered by warranty, and you've not caused it to happen. In my case the system was working perfectly, and I simply turned down the thermostat to 19 degrees from 21.5 and within minutes the F75 happened. Anyway, you do need to put up a refundable deposit of £90 but apart from that, and my understanding now is that there should be nothing else to pay - PROVIDED you are not at fault (e.g,. the system is simply restarted after increasing the pressure - which would be a waste of their time to send someone to do etc.). Seacam has indeed provided brilliant advice above.
I've complied with the 5 year warranty terms and conditions, as I do have them service my boiler annually (otherwise the warranty lapses). I recall when the boiler was installed the installer (Gassafe and qualified to install Vaillant) did flush the whole system with the appropriate chemicals. But I still take your excellent advice on board.
Anyway, for anyone else who comes across this thread on searching "Ecotec plus F75" the upshot of it is I've spoken with Vaillant and mine will be repaired shortly under warranty. There is no need to pay any plumber to fix an F75 fault provided you are also covered by warranty, and you've not caused it to happen. In my case the system was working perfectly, and I simply turned down the thermostat to 19 degrees from 21.5 and within minutes the F75 happened. Anyway, you do need to put up a refundable deposit of £90 but apart from that, and my understanding now is that there should be nothing else to pay - PROVIDED you are not at fault (e.g,. the system is simply restarted after increasing the pressure - which would be a waste of their time to send someone to do etc.). Seacam has indeed provided brilliant advice above.
HTH
Thank you again.
Hi and thank you.
I may have misunderstood part of your post.
Meanwhile, no hot water, no pressure problem, nothing but that error no matter how many times I try and reboot the boiler.
I read it as there was no pressure issue/problem, are you saying there is, in other words the system needed/needs pressurising?
Just read through some of this thread and wondering how common this fault is as my boiler needs replacing and had heard Vaillant are up there with the very best. Now im beginning to have second thoughts.
Over Christmas id looked at their website and if fitted by an approved engineer they give an extra warranty (as long as its serviced every year).
Just wanted to say that I asked the Vaillant engineer when he visited only a few hours ago that very same question. He responded that the F75 is the fault which triggers the greatest number of callouts for him. So, the F75 will be with us all for some time to come, alas...
BTW, Seacam was absolutely right in my case, it was, in reality, a sensor which needed replacing (and took the engineer less than 10 minutes to complete).
FWIW, I'm overall very pleased with my Ecotec plus, and Vaillant have been excellent in honouring their guarantee, attending to fix my boiler within 48 hours (even paying for metered parking!) so I would still recommend them to you, with no hesitation. HTH.
PS - if you do get a Vaillant, definitely do not skip on the annual services (at around £90) each. That way, your extended guarantee will continue to be valid.
Just wanted to say that I asked the Vaillant engineer when he visited only a few hours ago that very same question. He responded that the F75 is the fault which triggers the greatest number of callouts for him. So, the F75 will be with us all for some time to come, alas...
BTW, Seacam was absolutely right in my case, it was, in reality, a sensor which needed replacing (and took the engineer less than 10 minutes to complete).
FWIW, I'm overall very pleased with my Ecotec plus, and Vaillant have been excellent in honouring their guarantee, attending to fix my boiler within 48 hours (even paying for metered parking!) so I would still recommend them to you, with no hesitation. HTH.
PS - if you do get a Vaillant, definitely do not skip on the annual services (at around £90) each. That way, your extended guarantee will continue to be valid.
Thanks. This at least restores some faith! Yes i think it makes sense about the warranty bit. I haven't phoned them, just what i read on their website but i may well give them a call and see what they say about this f75 fault thing.
Over Christmas id looked at their website and if fitted by an approved engineer they give an extra warranty (as long as its serviced every year).
If you get a Vaillant, make sure the installer is a Valliant Advanced installer and that way you'll get the extra warranty, otherwise it'll be the standard 1/2 year.
If you get a Vaillant, make sure the installer is a Valliant Advanced installer and that way you'll get the extra warranty, otherwise it'll be the standard 1/2 year.
Yes i've now contacted four listed in my area and waiting to hear back from them.
Comments
Yes, muck in the system and will make the pump stick.
To make for a reliable boiler/combi have the system flushed every 3 years and inhibitor every 18 months, you won't regret it.
However your Plumber should have introduced X400 first, then x100.
Anyway your system is up running and thats good news.
I've had a go at the EV as suggested and the engineer can tackle the pump and sensor
They're a decent outfit and I can only assume that they cleaned the sytem, gulp, not an awful lot asking them I suppose, they're going to say 'of course' suppose
condensate pipe, yes, I worked that out in the big freeze, that seems to be a comon problem reading google
I'll ask him to check the pump and sensor are clean and ok, I assume for a professional with it already drained that's fairly easy
the proof of the pudding will come at 6am tomorrow morning ...
any idea why it would fail at more or less the same time every day, it must have been a little earlier this morning as the house was colder but by no means cold
Who is off to get one now?
Been and done and gone now, there were two of them. they were there at about 11.30 and gone by 1pm ish, we're on the North Circular and he gave me the impression that there was somewhere very close for the new EV
He, and the head bloke I booked with said they're doing lots of these lately as it was the boiler they recommended then, the chap today said they changed two EVs on Friday alone and completely removed one from someone else that was sick of it breaking down
umm, I kinda think that if it goes off at 6am tomorrow that they haven't fixed it and can come back and start over
the background losing of pressure form the tiny leak is still my problem
(I've just realised you were worried that it was me going to fit it ...:eek:, thanks for worrying but I promise I know my limitations)
Hello Tynan,
And that's what matters.
I have a 100 or so personal clients, a few would not question me if I said that or this has to be done or something needed replacing such is their trust in me getting it right.
You know your people, you are happy, they have served you well and that's what counts.
How old is your combi' and was it married to an existing system and how old is that system and did you ever have it cleaned and flushed?
If you charged your EV as you said you had and it held, your EV didn't need changing, perhaps de-scaling.
EVs require replacing because either they are faulty, leaking or scaled.
I have concerns with any company who would replace an EV, ( unless new/faulty or an existing cleaned system ), and would not suggest or recommend to the client to have their system cleaned, did they recommend or suggest that to you, were you given that option?
Exactly how vague were they?
Were you also given the option/recommendation like Under was of having a Magna Clean installed? Although I'm not always convinced of their effectiveness or need in some installations.
My take on not recommending any of the above in such circumstances is it doesn't do the client any favors.
You are unfortunate it wasn't the sensor or pump that needed attention.
He also said they serviced the boiler including taking the pump to bits and cleaning it out, also the pressure sensor, cleaned 'the traps', he correctly guess that the boiler had not been serviced since it was installed as new in Jul07 and suggested I do that in future, also said it would not have prevented this problem, blamed Valliant, he said the boiler pressure was very high although it was fine when I left the house, I bled a rad to bring it back under the red after squirting water in to get it going again this morning
they put this one in to replace a very vintage boiler that was getting very problematic, in light of your sensible questions I'm slightly ashamed to say that I have no idea what they did regarding cleaning the system at the time, I rather casually trusted them to do whatever was called for, I did have a proper quote of what was included that I dimly recall being very thorough and satisfactory at the time, I'll dig it out and let you know, the Lady wife is good with paperwork.
no mention of cleaning, inhibiting today, although I did ask the question as to whether this was needed on the note I left for him, oh and he said they replaced the PRV too after hearing that I'd been using it.
as for the EV, I let the pressure in the boiler down to almost nothing before pumping, it was at about .75, went up to 1 bar and stayed there despite a few extra pumps from a bike track pump, not sure what any of that means
as said, it strikes me as a very reproducible fault that will show ether this is fixed, granted it can only be reproduced at 6am every morning
as to whether it was something easy like the pump, fixed by cleaning it and they've stuck a cheeky extra on the bill, this one will have to be a matter of trust although I suppose I can take the cover off and look, although the 'old' one and indeed the whole boiler looked as if it was fresh out of the wrapping it was that clean and shiny
thanks for all your attention on this, i suspect I'll be starting a long hunt for the leak in the near future, does me topping the pressure up every two to three days have any bad implications
I have no wish to shake your confidence in your installers, I can only throw questions at you to ask or not as the case might be.
I can only repeat, IMO your EV didn't need changing if it was holding a charge, others may or may not disagree.
But I didn't inspect your combi' there may be other things/symptoms that led them to that conclution.
I can only re-state my post above.
They changed the PRV because you had played with it,--- using it,
ok.
As for leaks, referring to my earlier post,
not often mentioned is system erosion gas, this too can cause a system,--- lead to leaks or constant topping up in a CH system.
If you are satified the above doesn't exisit, then no, no bad implications just can be bloody time consuming searching for a leak, that might be under the floor boards anyway.
Try the tissue method or you can introduce a system sealer, like this, but don't do this if the system hasn't been cleaned for reasons already explained here. here.
The above product is good for pin holes leaks, nothing larger or posibly a dry joint.
Your system should be flushed and cleaned and inhibitor thrown in,
it's your call.
they said they checked and cleaned the sensor and pump and replaced the PRV and EV, if it stops shutting down every morning then I'll accept it's fixed, if not, not
how do I know if the EV held charge? or do you think the fact that it showed .75 initially showed it to be intact?
their point regarding Valliant is that they say there's three different design flaws that have been changed on the newer models, and they're stopped recommending their boilers now when fitting new ones, I'm only repeating their words, right or wrong
fingers crossed the the f75 error is now history, on with hunting the leak, fortunately the ground floor has a four foot space under for me to go hunting rats, all the pipework for the ground floor is there, upstairs is under floorboards right enough, gulp, and there's some new pushfit plastic pipework under concrete for the new kitchen but that is all recent so can't involved the central heating system although we have have two old rads taken out, but that was very early work done well over a year ago
strapped for cash at the mo, the cost today stung, but I'll get them in to flush etc next year when they service, roundabout £300 isn't it?
yes it is but I can only base by opinions on the information given/supplied with a few years of experience thrown behind them. It's no skin of my nose, it really isn't but you say they told you they had cleaned the sensor?. No,-- .75 is a little low, may have needed recharging a tad but the fact it was holding steady and the fact pressure was a little raised according to them to day, Professionally speaking I would question if the EV needed changing.
But I can only repeat,--- they were present, I can only opinionate. Only three. I don't envy you that, hopefully you will find the leak to be a surface one.
Push fits do leak although rarely. Yes around £350-450, that's a Power Flush mind you.
No more then £50-00, a good days work and a little forward preparation if you DIY.
I don't envy me that either, this must happen fairly often mustn't it? a teensey leak?
no, if you don;t mind coming at this from a different angle, can you make a reason why a faulty EV might have given the symptoms that my boiler was giving, I was rather puzzled why the teeny (sometime a proper) squirt through the filling loop got a boiler running for another 24 hours when it woldn't otherwise restart?
I appreciate you're against the idea but is it possible?
This £50, what's that for, sundry chemicals or renting something?
And thanks again for all your time on this, it all rather educational
I've also had the dreaded f75 fault, and after searching around on all these forums I'm going to attempt to change the sensor myself. Is this an easy thing to do? Anyone done it before? Got any instructions or advice before I scold my fingers
cheers
I felt I had to contribute my ha’penny to this thread because it saved my life when faced with the F75 error.
Have an Ecotec Pro 24 boiler, and had been getting both wildly fluctuating pressure problems with cut out, which was a faulty expansion vessel, then the F75 error.
Made sense of it as follows:
I started with pressure drops in my system which I’d been compensating by opening the filling loop which fixed it for a while. Then the pressure would be almost zero cold, and rise steadily into the red when heating on. This rise was relentless such that the system would shut down after it had been hot for a while. When it cooled down again, pressure would fall to zero and need refilling.
A plumber mate said it might have been the expansion vessel, and I discovered the valve on the vessel. By pumping this up (mini-mountain bike pump fits like a dream, but no pressure gauage) I could start the system from cold and as the pressure rose, by releasing air from the valve, I could delay the boiler safety cut out when pressure red-lined. But then water squirted out so I knew the EV was dead (1) .
Got and fitted new EV (2), drained system (4), added X400 (5), refilled and had heating bliss for 2 days. Then the dreaded F75 error.
Thanks to this thread, I found the water pressure sensor and removed and washed it (3). This restored my hot water, and by avoiding using the heating circuit I could bath my kids. As noted below (5) the X400 had certainly done some work as the fresh water I’d filled the system with 2 days prior, had now turned a rusty brown colour. This must have been the X400 doing its thing, but the crud in the water must have been clogging the older sensitive water pressure sensor (as opposed apparently to the newer black ones).
In retrospect, I probably should have power flushed my system before re-comissioning. I might do that now, or I might chance it by draining system, adding more X400 and doing a poor mans “power flush” .
Either way, the sound advice in this thread on the water pressure sensor got me out of a very cold bath. Hope this contribution solves a few Expansion vessel vs. leak vs water sensor issues.
1) Testing the expansion vessel
Push in the pin of the Schraeder valve sticking out of the EV (metal pillow oriented vertically on the right of the boiler just next to the casing wall). I use a japanese (pointy) chopstick. Valve should hiss, but if it squirts water, then it’s shot. Read why here:
http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
2) Replacing Expansion vessel:
I got mine for £70 from Euro boiler parts. Replacement is explained in the Vaillant manual which is easily findable on line (Ecotec Pro 24). Remember, as advised to turn off gas and fully isolate boiler electrically (ie. Unplug or remove fuse). Also drain the boiler after isolating CH feed and return.
3) Removing Water Pressure Sensor.
Again, this is pretty easy – locate the device – either orange if old like mine, or black (apparently, not seen one of these, but am about to buy). Removing it is a two step process. i) unclip electrical plug and then remove the metal U shaped pin as in the diagram which pulls out easily (the sensor should rotate freely after this). ii) Pull gently but firmly – this was the scary bit for me as you need to tug pretty hard. In the end, I used the claw end of a hammer to help leverage. Be careful not to snag any of the electrical wires.
4) Draining the heating systems (ie. Radiator circuit)
You might have a drain point at the lowest point of your system – you might also be able to find it. I couldn’t find mine and my life was saved by a “self tapping drain cock”. This is a handy device that clamps onto and drills into a 15mm feed to an existing radiator. Ideally choose a radiator near an outside door/drain. Of course, this won’t drain the feed pipes below the radiator, but this will be a minority of the water.
5) Adding Restorer/ inhibitor
Sentinel X400 and X100 respectively. I took the opposite end of the bleed valve off a double radiator and used part of a hose pipe shimmed with cling film and a bladder syringe to feed the stuff in. From my limited experience, when I initially drained the system to fit the new Expansion vessel, the water was clear (despite having been in for at least 4 years). 4 days with X400 in and the heating running normally, the water had turned a significant rust colour – and clogged my water pressure sensor! At least it was working.
I noted that people were saying back in 2010 that the F75 problem was well known at the time and that Vaillant were back then, allegedy releasing 'new' boilers to correct this (or some such...)
So, roll on 2016, and do I really have to face replacing the expansion whatsit, and flushing the system etc., (as said above) or shouldn't this fault be fully covered under Vaillant's guarantee from new?
Meanwhile, no hot water, no pressure problem, nothing but that error no matter how many times I try and reboot the boiler.
Sorry for repeating myself, however given that this thread was bandying around figures of £300++ to fix this error, but.... eh... surely this is covered under warranty??? As it's now late evening, I can't exactly call Vailant, to clarify this point.
After all, why should customers who've got a guarantee in place, as I do, have to pay anything to fix what is obviously a well known latent problem with Vaillant's combi boilers, whether such was talked about back in 2010, or now, in 2016?
Thank you for any advice on how to take this up with Vaillant, please know that I'm just not the type to do all that high tech 'jiggery pokery' above. I'd be scared of invalidating my guarantee, apart from anything else!
Hi,
Vaillant or any other manufacture wasn't/haven't released new boilers to fix F75 issues.
F75 is a known issue and several causes. Your boiler is 2014 install date, I doubt very much it is your EV that's faulty, ( it's not unheard of in such a new boiler but a rare occurrence, really rare. ).
Having written that, if the combi/boiler was strapped to a dirty system, you may well have issues but that is not the fault of Vaillant.
If it turns out your system is clean and installed correctly and you fulfilled their T&C and it is a faulty EV, then they should replace FOC and you should argue for this to happen.
I am sure I have written on this subject before but in brief, anyone installing a new combi/boiler and part of your decision making is a long guarantee offered, read the T&Cs.
Usually procedures have to be undertaken to the existing system before installation and an annual clean/service during the extended warranty period, in some cases fitted originally by one of their recognised fitters, ( not just a gas safe engineer ), a filter fitted and so on, in other words a lot of hoops and jumps for the consumer.
So if being sold a new boiler because it has an extended warranty period, it's sales spiel, unless you comply with the manufactures T&Cs. At a guess, I suspect yours is a faulty sensor, could be a PCB or pump. I agree with you up to a point but things have to be equal and one of those things has to be a clean system, ( if that has caused the issue ).
I wish more consumers would take up the fight with boiler manufactures and inherent faulty parts, a PCB failure on a 2 year old combi has nothing to do with a dirty system, I wish consumers would argue this.
A sensor on the other hand is a bit like a vehicle a year old and a head lamp blows, it's a nuisance but you fix and pay for it. If you have a guarantee that covers you against such things, I agree you shouldn't have to pay to have fixed.
If your system is dirty, get it cleaned, get it flushed, fit a filter.
What an excellent reply. Many many many thanks.
I've complied with the 5 year warranty terms and conditions, as I do have them service my boiler annually (otherwise the warranty lapses). I recall when the boiler was installed the installer (Gassafe and qualified to install Vaillant) did flush the whole system with the appropriate chemicals. But I still take your excellent advice on board.
Anyway, for anyone else who comes across this thread on searching "Ecotec plus F75" the upshot of it is I've spoken with Vaillant and mine will be repaired shortly under warranty. There is no need to pay any plumber to fix an F75 fault provided you are also covered by warranty, and you've not caused it to happen. In my case the system was working perfectly, and I simply turned down the thermostat to 19 degrees from 21.5 and within minutes the F75 happened. Anyway, you do need to put up a refundable deposit of £90 but apart from that, and my understanding now is that there should be nothing else to pay - PROVIDED you are not at fault (e.g,. the system is simply restarted after increasing the pressure - which would be a waste of their time to send someone to do etc.). Seacam has indeed provided brilliant advice above.
HTH
Thank you again.
I may have misunderstood part of your post.
I read it as there was no pressure issue/problem, are you saying there is, in other words the system needed/needs pressurising?
"no pressure problem" = no problem with pressure. In other words, the pressure bar was (when this happened) and still is at 1.4.
ty again.
Over Christmas id looked at their website and if fitted by an approved engineer they give an extra warranty (as long as its serviced every year).
Has the fault been sorted on current models?
Just wanted to say that I asked the Vaillant engineer when he visited only a few hours ago that very same question. He responded that the F75 is the fault which triggers the greatest number of callouts for him. So, the F75 will be with us all for some time to come, alas...
BTW, Seacam was absolutely right in my case, it was, in reality, a sensor which needed replacing (and took the engineer less than 10 minutes to complete).
FWIW, I'm overall very pleased with my Ecotec plus, and Vaillant have been excellent in honouring their guarantee, attending to fix my boiler within 48 hours (even paying for metered parking!) so I would still recommend them to you, with no hesitation. HTH.
PS - if you do get a Vaillant, definitely do not skip on the annual services (at around £90) each. That way, your extended guarantee will continue to be valid.
If you get a Vaillant, make sure the installer is a Valliant Advanced installer and that way you'll get the extra warranty, otherwise it'll be the standard 1/2 year.