Congrats funny how we all worrying about coverage at the moment as within 2 years all the networks should have blanket coverage across majority of the UK both population and geographically if MIP succeeds.
I think the networks need to improve coverage in major cities like London first, many people cannot get coverage indoors here even and some places in high streets are black spots
I think the networks need to improve coverage in major cities like London first, many people cannot get coverage indoors here even and some places in high streets are black spots
Oh I agree completely with that I think 4G is making networks realize that blanket coverage is needed. 800MHz roll-out should fix the indoor coverage issue if enough masts are present of course. Both O2 and Vodafone are rolling out as we speak and EE and Three will be rolling it out in the coming months. The problem with London is the sheer size of it and making sure enough masts are present to cope but also capacity issues. I can see London being the first place where the back-haul is needing switching to 10GBs or even 100GBs to keep up with demand. I think Vodafone and O2 are going be better of in some places like London because they have an extra 2x5MHz of 800MHz but 1800MHz should also be good for indoor coverage or at least better than 3G 2100MHz. Know from personal knowledge there a lot of places where you can get some 2G 1800MHz signal but not get a 3G 2100MHz signal assume same can be said for 4G 1800MHz. Think in end after all networks have rolled out 800MHz/1800MHz. It is simply going to be who has the better set up MBNL or Cornerstone.
Out of curiosity who has better coverage for 4G in London at the moment Vodafone/O2 or EE ?
From what I've heard, three will only be using 800mhz in rural areas. Not in London or big cities
Other networks may have an advantage.
Interesting that is puzzling simply due to fact 800MHz would give them better indoor coverage and also capacity as they don't have as much 1800MHz as EE do. Also the fact 800MHz would allow for Carrier Aggregation in future as assume they want to eventually have a LTE-Advanced network. I have heard EE are planning on using in London puzzling that Three aren't as you say it will leave them at a disadvantage. I could see them using only in rural areas at the start but not using in big cities at all is puzzling hopefully they change there minds.
Interesting that is puzzling simply due to fact 800MHz would give them better indoor coverage and also capacity as they don't have as much 1800MHz as EE do. Also the fact 800MHz would allow for Carrier Aggregation in future as assume they want to eventually have a LTE-Advanced network. I have heard EE are planning on using in London puzzling that Three aren't as you say it will leave them at a disadvantage. I could see them using only in rural areas at the start but not using in big cities at all is puzzling hopefully they change there minds.
Bear in mind that's not fact and just what I've heard. And I'm fairly certain the person I was talking to was just talking about the early stage of 800 roll out. So they could have 800 in London. Just not straight away.
Bear in mind that's not fact and just what I've heard. And I'm fairly certain the person I was talking to was just talking about the early stage of 800 roll out. So they could have 800 in London. Just not straight away.
I can see early on not having in London. But seems a bit of a waste of spectrum not to use later on. I Imagine the masts EE plans to use for 800MHz are the MBNL one's with new antennas fitted. I know early plans on EE/Three sharing deployment of 800MHz fell through as EE wanted delayed but certainly sounds like both wanted share.
Thanks for info though Jabba I appreciate it interesting to know. I think next two years are certainly going be interesting to development of mobile services in the UK.
As far as I'm aware, EE's 4g plans for 98% coverage by end of 2014 is all based on using 1800Mhz.
The sites being upgraded to MBNL are all being fitted with dual band antennas to operate on 1800 & 2100 2g/3G/4g and this is the same at existing MBNL sites. To add 800MHz to these sites will require either replacing with tri band antennas (which are relatively new to market, limited manufactures & models) or adding additonal single band antennas.
For this reason of requiring extra hardware, I don't think 3 or EE will be using 800Mhz in the next 12 to 18 months. The exception being rural areas, highlands, wales etc where MIP is involved, which is basically one set of equipment run by arqiva and available for all networks to use.
As far as I'm aware, EE's 4g plans for 98% coverage by end of 2014 is all based on using 1800Mhz.
The sites being upgraded to MBNL are all being fitted with dual band antennas to operate on 1800 & 2100 2g/3G/4g and this is the same at existing MBNL sites. To add 800MHz to these sites will require either replacing with tri band antennas (which are relatively new to market, limited manufactures & models) or adding additonal single band antennas.
For this reason of requiring extra hardware, I don't think 3 or EE will be using 800Mhz in the next 12 to 18 months. The exception being rural areas, highlands, wales etc where MIP is involved, which is basically one set of equipment run by arqiva and available for all networks to use.
EE are meant be rolling out 800MHz in London Q1/Q2 next year. I agree I think it will be a while before all cities get 800MHz but expect eventually they all will to get indoor coverage if nothing else.
The sites being upgraded to MBNL are all being fitted with dual band antennas to operate on 1800 & 2100 2g/3G/4g and this is the same at existing MBNL sites. To add 800MHz to these sites will require either replacing with tri band antennas (which are relatively new to market, limited manufactures & models) or adding additonal single band antennas.
That explains why all the big MBNL cell sites around here have nice new antennas on them (they're clean) and in some cases they're physically bigger than the older 2G(1800) and 3G(2100) antennas. I'm sure that on at least two there are a lower and higher set on the mast, I'm guessing 3 at one height, and EE at the other. (These ones I've seen are all 4G active as of August).
That explains why all the big MBNL cell sites around here have nice new antennas on them (they're clean) and in some cases they're physically bigger than the older 2G(1800) and 3G(2100) antennas. I'm sure that on at least two there are a lower and higher set on the mast, I'm guessing 3 at one height, and EE at the other. (These ones I've seen are all 4G active as of August).
Yeah some of them look huge much bigger than in past.
Yeah some of them look huge much bigger than in past.
That's probably why I spotted it.
I've also noticed how much further away from the mast you can pick up a 4G signal than when it was just 3G. Interesting radio propagation physics. 1800 you would think isn't that far from 2100 when you compare both with 800 (or 900).
I've also noticed how much further away from the mast you can pick up a 4G signal than when it was just 3G. Interesting radio propagation physics. 1800 you would think isn't that far from 2100 when you compare both with 800 (or 900).
It's mostly likely down to the fact 4G doesn't do cell breathing like 3G does . But I know what you mean a few of my friends are on EE and get a 2G 1800MHz signal in places where I can't get a 3G 2100MHz.
Out of curiosity who has better coverage for 4G in London at the moment Vodafone/O2 or EE ?
As it stands today then overall it's EE just because of their headstart. In London and any of their cities they launch in, Voda/O2 still have loads of masts being upgraded to 4G over the next year. Having said that, I've been using Voda 4G for the past week and I've been quite impressed in their declared coverage areas but there are still plenty of patchy areas to be filled in. The coverage map seemed to be do a good predictive job in the areas I've tried and there are some initial reports which seem to suggest availability is quite good like this.
Overall though I think EE still has the lead even though my own phone on EE seems recently to be spending an awful lot of time stuck on 2G (the opposite of what is supposed to happen in double speed areas).
As it stands today then overall it's EE just because of their headstart. In London and any of their cities they launch in, Voda/O2 still have loads of masts being upgraded to 4G over the next year. Having said that, I've been using Voda 4G for the past week and I've been quite impressed in their declared coverage areas but there are still plenty of patchy areas to be filled in. The coverage map seemed to be do a good predictive job in the areas I've tried and there are some initial reports which seem to suggest availability is quite good like this.
Overall though I think EE still has the lead even though my own phone on EE seems recently to be spending an awful lot of time stuck on 2G (the opposite of what is supposed to happen in double speed areas).
I expected as much at the moment. I am curious when Vodafone/O2 finish roll out in London which will be better for coverage the 800MHz or the 1800MHz.
Out of interest where has the idea that EE will be rolling out 800MHz nationally come from? Unless I've missed something recently, all of EE's key network people have always said that it will mostly be used to extend coverage in remote areas and there would only be a small amount of usage in urban areas where they want to improve indoor coverage.
Judging by comments on the Vodafone E forum and some friends from my work, it appears that Vodafone have been over predicting their 4G coverage in some of the new places that launched last week. Especially in Leicester and Birmingham with a number of people who are in city centres and areas which show strong indoor and outdoor coverage having no 4G.
The speeds I am told are very up and down with at times 50mb but at others as slwo as 3mb hopefully this is just short term.
I am personally waiting to move onto Vodafone 4G just got to wait until my bill is paid this month before doing an early upgrade.
I have met up with the future brother in law today at a family meal. He works for Vodafone in the network monitoring team and we had a really good chat about 4G and The Vodafone network in general it was very informative and I learnt a lot.
I mentioned of the problems I have been hearing about from friends and colleagues about poor 4G speeds in Leicester and Nottingham since launching last week.
He explained this is just temporary until around Christmas time and is due to the Cornerstone agreement in both these cities as O2 are responsible for upgrading the masts and equipment/cabinets.
The problem is O2 use Virgin media for their 4G backhaul for most masts which is fine as have good network footprint and large teams of network engineers/groundworkers. This means that the O2 backhaul is connected up straight away once the mast is ready to go live where as the Vodafone side of things in these citiess is waiting the upgraded C&W fibre backhaul to be pulled into for most sites so any former Vodafone sites that have been upgraded are still running on legacy backhaul and sites that we were former O2 are not live at all yet.
I have checked this out myself and seems true as all the work and planning applications around Leicester and Nottingham is always O2 on behalf of Cornerstone and on roadworks.org I can see Vodafone have plans in place for lots of work late Oct well into November for trench digging to lay fibre across Leicester.
Out of interest where has the idea that EE will be rolling out 800MHz nationally come from? Unless I've missed something recently, all of EE's key network people have always said that it will mostly be used to extend coverage in remote areas and there would only be a small amount of usage in urban areas where they want to improve indoor coverage.
AFAIK It isn't, not within the next 6-12 months. The roll out is solely focused on 1800 outside of London. However in Central London various technologies and both 800 & 2600 currently being tested for roll out there.
I think there is only one small project looking at 800 in a rural location just now but I'm led to beilive much like the Cumbria project it is being paid for by local auth/govt so doesn't really count.
AFAIK It isn't, not within the next 6-12 months. The roll out is solely focused on 1800 outside of London. However in Central London various technologies and both 800 & 2600 currently being tested for roll out there.
I think there is only one small project looking at 800 in a rural location just now but I'm led to beilive much like the Cumbria project it is being paid for by local auth/govt so doesn't really count.
Im sure you are right although I was thinking a bit longer term than 12 months. I might have misunderstood some of the posters as saying there was going to be a national 800 overlay. Anyway, my understanding is that even longer term, there is no intention for a national 800 overlay but rather 800 will be used for additional rural coverage and in a small number of more urban areas where they want to provide better indoor coverage.
On 2600, what I do know is this is in use in London in carrier aggregation trials (1800 + 2600).
Well I have upgraded to Vodafone 4G over the weekend and have to say when I have had 4G coverage the speeds have been good in Leicester.
The biggest problem is the lack of 4G coverage the map shows current coverage right across the city and surrounding areas with the expected gaps, however in real life there is limited coverage in a few places on ring road around Leicester with none in town centre.
I travel 25 miles each way to work right from the North of the county down to the South, I drive past 8 masts that i know have been upgraded to new Vodafone/O2 shared ones with the new cabinets not one of these is broadcasting a 4G signal yet some were done 2-3 months still not live. I presume they are awaiting the Cable & Wireless fibre upgrades as a friend on O2 has confirmed that he can get 4G off most of them. I presume this is why the map is wrong as officially they have masts in these places but not live yet.
Comments
I think the networks need to improve coverage in major cities like London first, many people cannot get coverage indoors here even and some places in high streets are black spots
Oh I agree completely with that I think 4G is making networks realize that blanket coverage is needed. 800MHz roll-out should fix the indoor coverage issue if enough masts are present of course. Both O2 and Vodafone are rolling out as we speak and EE and Three will be rolling it out in the coming months. The problem with London is the sheer size of it and making sure enough masts are present to cope but also capacity issues. I can see London being the first place where the back-haul is needing switching to 10GBs or even 100GBs to keep up with demand. I think Vodafone and O2 are going be better of in some places like London because they have an extra 2x5MHz of 800MHz but 1800MHz should also be good for indoor coverage or at least better than 3G 2100MHz. Know from personal knowledge there a lot of places where you can get some 2G 1800MHz signal but not get a 3G 2100MHz signal assume same can be said for 4G 1800MHz. Think in end after all networks have rolled out 800MHz/1800MHz. It is simply going to be who has the better set up MBNL or Cornerstone.
Out of curiosity who has better coverage for 4G in London at the moment Vodafone/O2 or EE ?
Other networks may have an advantage.
Interesting that is puzzling simply due to fact 800MHz would give them better indoor coverage and also capacity as they don't have as much 1800MHz as EE do. Also the fact 800MHz would allow for Carrier Aggregation in future as assume they want to eventually have a LTE-Advanced network. I have heard EE are planning on using in London puzzling that Three aren't as you say it will leave them at a disadvantage. I could see them using only in rural areas at the start but not using in big cities at all is puzzling hopefully they change there minds.
Bear in mind that's not fact and just what I've heard. And I'm fairly certain the person I was talking to was just talking about the early stage of 800 roll out. So they could have 800 in London. Just not straight away.
I can see early on not having in London. But seems a bit of a waste of spectrum not to use later on. I Imagine the masts EE plans to use for 800MHz are the MBNL one's with new antennas fitted. I know early plans on EE/Three sharing deployment of 800MHz fell through as EE wanted delayed but certainly sounds like both wanted share.
Thanks for info though Jabba I appreciate it interesting to know. I think next two years are certainly going be interesting to development of mobile services in the UK.
all that metal sapping up signal
and those angles and windows everywhere makes the signal behave in an unnatural way.
The sites being upgraded to MBNL are all being fitted with dual band antennas to operate on 1800 & 2100 2g/3G/4g and this is the same at existing MBNL sites. To add 800MHz to these sites will require either replacing with tri band antennas (which are relatively new to market, limited manufactures & models) or adding additonal single band antennas.
For this reason of requiring extra hardware, I don't think 3 or EE will be using 800Mhz in the next 12 to 18 months. The exception being rural areas, highlands, wales etc where MIP is involved, which is basically one set of equipment run by arqiva and available for all networks to use.
EE are meant be rolling out 800MHz in London Q1/Q2 next year. I agree I think it will be a while before all cities get 800MHz but expect eventually they all will to get indoor coverage if nothing else.
Yeah some of them look huge much bigger than in past.
That's probably why I spotted it.
I've also noticed how much further away from the mast you can pick up a 4G signal than when it was just 3G. Interesting radio propagation physics. 1800 you would think isn't that far from 2100 when you compare both with 800 (or 900).
It's mostly likely down to the fact 4G doesn't do cell breathing like 3G does . But I know what you mean a few of my friends are on EE and get a 2G 1800MHz signal in places where I can't get a 3G 2100MHz.
As it stands today then overall it's EE just because of their headstart. In London and any of their cities they launch in, Voda/O2 still have loads of masts being upgraded to 4G over the next year. Having said that, I've been using Voda 4G for the past week and I've been quite impressed in their declared coverage areas but there are still plenty of patchy areas to be filled in. The coverage map seemed to be do a good predictive job in the areas I've tried and there are some initial reports which seem to suggest availability is quite good like this.
http://recombu.com/digital/news/ee-o2-vodafone-4g-mobile-beats-fixed-line-average-speed_M12164.html
Overall though I think EE still has the lead even though my own phone on EE seems recently to be spending an awful lot of time stuck on 2G (the opposite of what is supposed to happen in double speed areas).
I expected as much at the moment. I am curious when Vodafone/O2 finish roll out in London which will be better for coverage the 800MHz or the 1800MHz.
The speeds I am told are very up and down with at times 50mb but at others as slwo as 3mb hopefully this is just short term.
I am personally waiting to move onto Vodafone 4G just got to wait until my bill is paid this month before doing an early upgrade.
I mentioned of the problems I have been hearing about from friends and colleagues about poor 4G speeds in Leicester and Nottingham since launching last week.
He explained this is just temporary until around Christmas time and is due to the Cornerstone agreement in both these cities as O2 are responsible for upgrading the masts and equipment/cabinets.
The problem is O2 use Virgin media for their 4G backhaul for most masts which is fine as have good network footprint and large teams of network engineers/groundworkers. This means that the O2 backhaul is connected up straight away once the mast is ready to go live where as the Vodafone side of things in these citiess is waiting the upgraded C&W fibre backhaul to be pulled into for most sites so any former Vodafone sites that have been upgraded are still running on legacy backhaul and sites that we were former O2 are not live at all yet.
I have checked this out myself and seems true as all the work and planning applications around Leicester and Nottingham is always O2 on behalf of Cornerstone and on roadworks.org I can see Vodafone have plans in place for lots of work late Oct well into November for trench digging to lay fibre across Leicester.
AFAIK It isn't, not within the next 6-12 months. The roll out is solely focused on 1800 outside of London. However in Central London various technologies and both 800 & 2600 currently being tested for roll out there.
I think there is only one small project looking at 800 in a rural location just now but I'm led to beilive much like the Cumbria project it is being paid for by local auth/govt so doesn't really count.
On 2600, what I do know is this is in use in London in carrier aggregation trials (1800 + 2600).
The biggest problem is the lack of 4G coverage the map shows current coverage right across the city and surrounding areas with the expected gaps, however in real life there is limited coverage in a few places on ring road around Leicester with none in town centre.
I travel 25 miles each way to work right from the North of the county down to the South, I drive past 8 masts that i know have been upgraded to new Vodafone/O2 shared ones with the new cabinets not one of these is broadcasting a 4G signal yet some were done 2-3 months still not live. I presume they are awaiting the Cable & Wireless fibre upgrades as a friend on O2 has confirmed that he can get 4G off most of them. I presume this is why the map is wrong as officially they have masts in these places but not live yet.