No, it means if you take a job with the company within 13 weeks/3 months of leaving the agency then the company will have to pay the agency a fee. Companies go to agencies when they can't find staff. The agency fee is to stop the company then taking the staff on permanently when the agency has done the work of finding them in the first place.
Re scarcity of jobs - have a look at areas that involve direct contact with the public. You need emotional resiliance but there's no shortage of work if you can hack it.
I know what you mean I've worked hard for a number of employers who have then treated me badly. I don't feel any real loyalty to the agency or the company - it's just a means of getting money but I'm not a dishonest person. I've always prided myself on being hard working and honest (not that it's got me anywhere).
Haphash please stop fretting about the agency fee - it is not your concern, it is between the employer and the agency. They put the fee in the contract usually anywhere from £1500 upwards depending on the role//salary.
If you want the permy job then take it. It is not a test of your morality or ethical judgement, its a job offer. Once you have signed the offer then just hand your notice in to the agency. This happens all the time, and if the agency wish to carry on placing temps with the company then they will not pursue the fee from anyone. After all the agency have earned a good whack out you already, in an almost pimp-like fashion every hour you work, then they take a cut so please do not feel sorry for them. And do not feel any loyalty to the agency either, they would finish you with absolutely no notice if they had to. It's just the way it is.
I'm actually quite upset about this as I feel that I've been put in a bad position. I lost out on another job last year because the company told me they didn't want to pay the agency fee.
I'm actually quite upset about this as I feel that I've been put in a bad position. I lost out on another job last year because the company told me they didn't want to pay the agency fee.
As i have said i think that after 13 weeks there is no fee
Haphash please stop fretting about the agency fee - it is not your concern, it is between the employer and the agency. They put the fee in the contract usually anywhere from £1500 upwards depending on the role//salary.
If you want the permy job then take it. It is not a test of your morality or ethical judgement, its a job offer. Once you have signed the offer then just hand your notice in to the agency. This happens all the time, and if the agency wish to carry on placing temps with the company then they will not pursue the fee from anyone. After all the agency have earned a good whack out you already, in an almost pimp-like fashion every hour you work, then they take a cut so please do not feel sorry for them. And do not feel any loyalty to the agency either, they would finish you with absolutely no notice if they had to. It's just the way it is.
Thanks. The company is a small local business and its unlikely that they will be getting any more temps from the agency. They do not want to pay any fee to the agency. I know the agency has been making money out of me but I still don't like the idea of lying to them. The company have instructed me to tell the agency that I am leaving to go elsewhere. That's the bit that I am not comfortable with.
My main fear is that the agency will find out if I lie to them and then I will have no chance of getting any work from them in the future if this job doesn't work out.
In this case there is a fee or the company wouldn't have told the OP they don't want to pay it and to lie to the agency.
It depends who said that. If it was just a line manager then they probably arent aware of the law. I dont think any fee would be enforcable. Probably best to contact ACAS
Thanks. The company is a small local business and its unlikely that they will be getting any more temps from the agency. They do not want to pay any fee to the agency. I know the agency has been making money out of me but I still don't like the idea of lying to them. The company have instructed me to tell the agency that I am leaving to go elsewhere. That's the bit that I am not comfortable with.
My main fear is that the agency will find out if I lie to them and then I will have no chance of getting any work from them in the future if this job doesn't work out.
Just tell the agency that you leaving, you do not even have to tell them where you are going.
Agencies have 100's on their books and they cannot remember everything about everyone one of them. If you take this job and it doesn't work out, you just sign up with the agency again. They won't remember any of this and will just try and place you with another company - all they are worried about is getting temps in place as soon as poss because then they start getting paid.
It depends who said that. If it was just a line manager then they probably arent aware of the law. I dont think any fee would be enforcable. Probably best to contact ACAS
Sorry but why would haphash be best to contact ACAS? This is between the agency and the employer, it's nothing to do with haphash and she shouldn't be worrying about it.
[QUOTE=Soomacdoo;85591584]Sorry but why would haphash be best to contact ACAS? This is between the agency and the employer, it's nothing to do with haphash and she shouldn't be worrying about it.[/QUOTE]
Clarification of the law? If ACAS say there is no fee then they go to the agency and tell them that
Clarification of the law? If ACAS say there is no fee then they go to the agency and tell them that
What part of this are you not getting? The fee is between the employer and the agency. It has nothing to do with the employee of either party therefore the employee need not concern herself with it. She doesn't need to ring ACAS.
I think what the poster is saying is that the company may have got it wrong and if this is confirmed by ACAS then the OP could eliminate the issue of the fee by letting the company know.
I suspect there is a clear contract between the employer and the agency and there is a fee - but there is an equal chance that the other poster is correct. The problem really is that ACAS won't have the individual contract so won't be in a position to give a definite answer in this specific situation and the OP obviously can't get a copy of the contract between the agency and the company as, as you quite rightly point out, she is not a party to the arrangement.
Yes there is a fee, there always is a fee, it's a standard thing with agencies but as I said it's nothing for haphash to worry about.
She obviously is worrying about it and people writing scary stuff on here about legalities and speaking to ACAS is not really helping her, it will just make her worry more.
What part of this are you not getting? The fee is between the employer and the agency. It has nothing to do with the employee of either party therefore the employee need not concern herself with it. She doesn't need to ring ACAS.
What part aren't you getting? She has been asked to lie to the agency. If she does that it very much involves her. In legal terms (not that it would of course come to that) she would be an accessory.
If she hands in her notice to the agency and they don't ask then fine. She doesn't have to volunteer the reason for her leaving. But it'd be a strange agency that didn't ask. It's the most obvious response to her request to be removed from their books.
She obviously is worrying about it and people writing scary stuff on here about legalities and speaking to ACAS is not really helping her, it will just make her worry more.
She absolutely should worry about it. Or at least be a bit concerned. No it's unlikely to land her in trouble (and certainly not legal trouble) but it could leave her out of a job if the employer throws her away and with that agency and maybe others unwilling to help her. It also does her credit that she has seen the pitfalls and is concerned about doing something wrong. What I think will do more harm here is you telling her not to worry about it, not to give a damn about other people and to just do whatever the hell she wants. That is bad advice.
The bottom line here is that someone is asking her to lie on their behalf. That's wrong. It's not something anyone should ever do. She has also stated that one of the reasons she wants to make this change is to get job security. That's damn' hard to find these days and signing up with someone who expects others to lie for them and who apparently has little respect for the system that exists to protect her interests is highly dubious.
What part of this are you not getting? The fee is between the employer and the agency. It has nothing to do with the employee of either party therefore the employee need not concern herself with it. She doesn't need to ring ACAS.
The bit that you cannot understand. After 13 weeks there is no fee, thats set by law and not by the agency and client. contract. The OP has every right to ask ACAS for clarification as their workinjg rights may possibly be wrong.
Yes there is a fee, there always is a fee, it's a standard thing with agencies but as I said it's nothing for haphash to worry about.
She obviously is worrying about it and people writing scary stuff on here about legalities and speaking to ACAS is not really helping her, it will just make her worry more.
No there isnt a fee after 13 weeks of full employment at the same place.
I think what the poster is saying is that the company may have got it wrong and if this is confirmed by ACAS then the OP could eliminate the issue of the fee by letting the company know.
I suspect there is a clear contract between the employer and the agency and there is a fee - but there is an equal chance that the other poster is correct. The problem really is that ACAS won't have the individual contract so won't be in a position to give a definite answer in this specific situation and the OP obviously can't get a copy of the contract between the agency and the company as, as you quite rightly point out, she is not a party to the arrangement.
It is set by law so ACAS would instruct them that were free to walk away from the agency and take the job.
What part aren't you getting? She has been asked to lie to the agency. If she does that it very much involves her. In legal terms (not that it would of course come to that) she would be an accessory.
If she hands in her notice to the agency and they don't ask then fine. She doesn't have to volunteer the reason for her leaving. But it'd be a strange agency that didn't ask. It's the most obvious response to her request to be removed from their books.She absolutely should worry about it. Or at least be a bit concerned. No it's unlikely to land her in trouble (and certainly not legal trouble) but it could leave her out of a job if the employer throws her away and with that agency and maybe others unwilling to help her. It also does her credit that she has seen the pitfalls and is concerned about doing something wrong. What I think will do more harm here is you telling her not to worry about it, not to give a damn about other people and to just do whatever the hell she wants. That is bad advice.
The bottom line here is that someone is asking her to lie on their behalf. That's wrong. It's not something anyone should ever do. She has also stated that one of the reasons she wants to make this change is to get job security. That's damn' hard to find these days and signing up with someone who expects others to lie for them and who apparently has little respect for the system that exists to protect her interests is highly dubious.
No it's not bad advice and I am not telling her to lie. She doesn't have to tell the agency where she is going, she just has to say the she is leaving the employ of the agency, which incidentally is the truth.
Haphash has to look out for herself and working direct for the employer will offer her better security, better money and better t&c's. You guys are making a mountain out of molehill here.
Whilst I agree that the fee contract is between the prospective employer and agency, I do know that the agency will do everything in its power to find out whether one of their temps has been taken on permanently by an employer they have a contract with.
Many years ago, I worked at an agency for a short time, and there was one person who was tasked to 'track down' any temp who suddenly left the agency's books after spending several weeks on an assignment (students not included). Plus, if the employer then coincidentally tells the agency, "We don't want any more staff," the agency will smell a rat. They've seen all the ways an employer will try to get around that fee. I think it might cause you more stress than you want in your life.
Whether you tell the agency or not: I do hope things go well for you. It sounds like you've had the crappiest time, work-wise. Good luck.
Whats your contract with the agency and whats the intended contract with your present employer
At the end of the day money counts, pensions, health cover, sick leave and holiday etc
Whats your contract with the agency and whats the intended contract with your present employer
At the end of the day money counts, pensions, health cover, sick leave and holiday etc
I cannot imagine the agency gives much
The agency have no say. After 12 working weeks the agency worker has a whole host of rights they are entitled to. They are entitled to the same pay as the company staff they are hired to, same bonuses as the companies staff, holiday pay paid by the company they are hired to etc etc. That is why there is no fee after 13 weeks https://www.gov.uk/agency-workers-your-rights/your-rights-as-a-temporary-agency-worker
The equal pay thing is a bit of a joke because temps get paid more than folks doing the same role anyway, in my experience.
The emphasis concerning the 'wrongness' or the immorality should not be placed on the individual it's on the employer - they are the ones wanting to skip paying the fee here.
OP you can de-register from the agency and take up the employer's offer, but there is a chance that the agency will find out and the employer will have to pay anyway. It may even be the fees that are stated in the agency's TOB which can be over 20% even for a junior post. Whereas if the employer has a good relationship with the agency they could charge as little as 10%.
I wish agencies wouldn't say after 12 weeks the candidate is free, yeah it may well cost around £5K to get to that point!
Paying an agency finders fee is standard practice & licensed by the government - it is costly and time-consuming for a company to recruit a new employee - hiring an already-placed and trained temp eliminates that.
As Soomacdoo correctly pointed out, the contract is between the agency and the company, not the OP who does not have to give any reasons for leaving the agency apart from the notice period within her current contract. Nor does she owe either party any loyalty - it's all strictly business, although I'm aware she doesn't want to cause bad feelings and be put in an awkward position from either side. Agencies are well aware of employers attempting to avoid the legal fees in permanently hiring temps & have many practices in place to ensure they can invoice payments due.
So my advice would be to take up the position, tell the agency where you are working and leave it up to them to chase up the fee stipulated in their contract. If the company have a problem with that then they should not have accepted the terms and conditions.
And OP - if they then withdraw their offer of employment you are within your rights to take them to tribunal for loss of earnings. What they are trying to do is underhand and illegal.
Paying an agency finders fee is standard practice & licensed by the government - it is costly and time-consuming for a company to recruit a new employee - hiring an already-placed and trained temp eliminates that.
As Soomacdoo correctly pointed out, the contract is between the agency and the company, not the OP who does not have to give any reasons for leaving the agency apart from the notice period within her current contract. Nor does she owe either party any loyalty - it's all strictly business, although I'm aware she doesn't want to cause bad feelings and be put in an awkward position from either side. Agencies are well aware of employers attempting to avoid the legal fees in permanently hiring temps & have many practices in place to ensure they can invoice payments due.
So my advice would be to take up the position, tell the agency where you are working and leave it up to them to chase up the fee stipulated in their contract. If the company have a problem with that then they should not have accepted the terms and conditions.
And OP - if they then withdraw their offer of employment you are within your rights to take them to tribunal for loss of earnings. What they are trying to do is underhand and illegal.
If you read your own link you would see this
You can only charge transfer fees if the transfer takes place within whichever is later out of:
14 weeks from the start of the first assignment with the hirer
After the 13th week there is no fee by law
Comments
I dont think it does. I think after 13 weeks an agency member can go go from temp to perm after the 14th week of solid employment
https://worksmart.org.uk/work-rights/atypical-workers/agency-workers/can-my-agency-charge-hirer-%E2%80%98temp-perm%E2%80%99-fee-if-i-take-job
See 2nd paragraph
Haphash please stop fretting about the agency fee - it is not your concern, it is between the employer and the agency. They put the fee in the contract usually anywhere from £1500 upwards depending on the role//salary.
If you want the permy job then take it. It is not a test of your morality or ethical judgement, its a job offer. Once you have signed the offer then just hand your notice in to the agency. This happens all the time, and if the agency wish to carry on placing temps with the company then they will not pursue the fee from anyone. After all the agency have earned a good whack out you already, in an almost pimp-like fashion every hour you work, then they take a cut so please do not feel sorry for them. And do not feel any loyalty to the agency either, they would finish you with absolutely no notice if they had to. It's just the way it is.
Thanks. The company is a small local business and its unlikely that they will be getting any more temps from the agency. They do not want to pay any fee to the agency. I know the agency has been making money out of me but I still don't like the idea of lying to them. The company have instructed me to tell the agency that I am leaving to go elsewhere. That's the bit that I am not comfortable with.
My main fear is that the agency will find out if I lie to them and then I will have no chance of getting any work from them in the future if this job doesn't work out.
It depends who said that. If it was just a line manager then they probably arent aware of the law. I dont think any fee would be enforcable. Probably best to contact ACAS
Just tell the agency that you leaving, you do not even have to tell them where you are going.
Agencies have 100's on their books and they cannot remember everything about everyone one of them. If you take this job and it doesn't work out, you just sign up with the agency again. They won't remember any of this and will just try and place you with another company - all they are worried about is getting temps in place as soon as poss because then they start getting paid.
I think you are worrying far too much about this.
Sorry but why would haphash be best to contact ACAS? This is between the agency and the employer, it's nothing to do with haphash and she shouldn't be worrying about it.
Clarification of the law? If ACAS say there is no fee then they go to the agency and tell them that
What part of this are you not getting? The fee is between the employer and the agency. It has nothing to do with the employee of either party therefore the employee need not concern herself with it. She doesn't need to ring ACAS.
Yes there is a fee, there always is a fee, it's a standard thing with agencies but as I said it's nothing for haphash to worry about.
She obviously is worrying about it and people writing scary stuff on here about legalities and speaking to ACAS is not really helping her, it will just make her worry more.
If she hands in her notice to the agency and they don't ask then fine. She doesn't have to volunteer the reason for her leaving. But it'd be a strange agency that didn't ask. It's the most obvious response to her request to be removed from their books. She absolutely should worry about it. Or at least be a bit concerned. No it's unlikely to land her in trouble (and certainly not legal trouble) but it could leave her out of a job if the employer throws her away and with that agency and maybe others unwilling to help her. It also does her credit that she has seen the pitfalls and is concerned about doing something wrong. What I think will do more harm here is you telling her not to worry about it, not to give a damn about other people and to just do whatever the hell she wants. That is bad advice.
The bottom line here is that someone is asking her to lie on their behalf. That's wrong. It's not something anyone should ever do. She has also stated that one of the reasons she wants to make this change is to get job security. That's damn' hard to find these days and signing up with someone who expects others to lie for them and who apparently has little respect for the system that exists to protect her interests is highly dubious.
The bit that you cannot understand. After 13 weeks there is no fee, thats set by law and not by the agency and client. contract. The OP has every right to ask ACAS for clarification as their workinjg rights may possibly be wrong.
No there isnt a fee after 13 weeks of full employment at the same place.
It is set by law so ACAS would instruct them that were free to walk away from the agency and take the job.
No it's not bad advice and I am not telling her to lie. She doesn't have to tell the agency where she is going, she just has to say the she is leaving the employ of the agency, which incidentally is the truth.
Haphash has to look out for herself and working direct for the employer will offer her better security, better money and better t&c's. You guys are making a mountain out of molehill here.
If it was an agency where I didn't know anyone then I would just do it but I've worked for this agency before and I know the people who work there.
I'll let you know what happens.
Many years ago, I worked at an agency for a short time, and there was one person who was tasked to 'track down' any temp who suddenly left the agency's books after spending several weeks on an assignment (students not included). Plus, if the employer then coincidentally tells the agency, "We don't want any more staff," the agency will smell a rat. They've seen all the ways an employer will try to get around that fee. I think it might cause you more stress than you want in your life.
Whether you tell the agency or not: I do hope things go well for you. It sounds like you've had the crappiest time, work-wise. Good luck.
Whats your contract with the agency and whats the intended contract with your present employer
At the end of the day money counts, pensions, health cover, sick leave and holiday etc
I cannot imagine the agency gives much
The agency have no say. After 12 working weeks the agency worker has a whole host of rights they are entitled to. They are entitled to the same pay as the company staff they are hired to, same bonuses as the companies staff, holiday pay paid by the company they are hired to etc etc. That is why there is no fee after 13 weeks
https://www.gov.uk/agency-workers-your-rights/your-rights-as-a-temporary-agency-worker
The equal pay thing is a bit of a joke because temps get paid more than folks doing the same role anyway, in my experience.
The emphasis concerning the 'wrongness' or the immorality should not be placed on the individual it's on the employer - they are the ones wanting to skip paying the fee here.
OP you can de-register from the agency and take up the employer's offer, but there is a chance that the agency will find out and the employer will have to pay anyway. It may even be the fees that are stated in the agency's TOB which can be over 20% even for a junior post. Whereas if the employer has a good relationship with the agency they could charge as little as 10%.
I wish agencies wouldn't say after 12 weeks the candidate is free, yeah it may well cost around £5K to get to that point!
As Soomacdoo correctly pointed out, the contract is between the agency and the company, not the OP who does not have to give any reasons for leaving the agency apart from the notice period within her current contract. Nor does she owe either party any loyalty - it's all strictly business, although I'm aware she doesn't want to cause bad feelings and be put in an awkward position from either side. Agencies are well aware of employers attempting to avoid the legal fees in permanently hiring temps & have many practices in place to ensure they can invoice payments due.
Government guidelines on agency fees here:-
https://www.gov.uk/employment-agencies-and-businesses/fees-to-hiring-companies-transfer-fees
So my advice would be to take up the position, tell the agency where you are working and leave it up to them to chase up the fee stipulated in their contract. If the company have a problem with that then they should not have accepted the terms and conditions.
And OP - if they then withdraw their offer of employment you are within your rights to take them to tribunal for loss of earnings. What they are trying to do is underhand and illegal.
If you read your own link you would see this
You can only charge transfer fees if the transfer takes place within whichever is later out of:
14 weeks from the start of the first assignment with the hirer
After the 13th week there is no fee by law