central heating flue? neighbour concerned.

stephen122333stephen122333 Posts: 912
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We are currently having central heating installed for the first time. The builders have just installed the boiler and flue. The boiler has been installed in our conservatory (which has been in place your over 30 years) and the flue points out into our neighbours garden. The flue is way about head height and well away from her house (all most the full length of our conservatory). Today she spoke to us and informed us she is unhappy with the positioning of the flue as her flue also points into her garden (the other side of her house away from our flue) and she is concerned about to much exhaust gasses in her garden. Asking if we could have the flue pointing in a different direction.

To me this seems a bit WTF, as the garden is open and not at all crowed and I feel the any gasses would be sufficiently diluted with the fresh air in the garden.


Is she right to be concerned?
Can she force a change?
How easy would it be to have a longer flue pointing up to take the gasses away? (I know this is a hard question with out see the properties)

I am planning to speak to the builders on Monday but I thought I would ask you fine folk.

Many thanks
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Comments

  • seacamseacam Posts: 21,364
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    Hi,

    to clarify, when you write builders installed boiler,---you do mean a gas safe engineer?

    As long as it is a gas safe engineer, hopefully they will have complied with the regs'.

    So long as the actual flue does not over shoot into the neighbours boundary and not near openings as specified with in the regs', she can ask but can't enforce.

    However if the boiler is non-compliant or fitted other then by a gas safe engineer, your builders are in trouble and if she enquires, so are you.

    Does your boiler quote include registration cert' ?
  • stephen122333stephen122333 Posts: 912
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    Yes they would have used a gas engineer when and where appropriate, they have supplied a certificate(s) for the electrical work they have done. (they also fitted a new kitchen).

    At the moment I think technically it might just go into her 'airspace' but I assume the flue could easily be shorten pulling it into our airspace and out of hers.
  • davidmcndavidmcn Posts: 12,086
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    Not very clear from what you've said - where is the flue in relation to the boundary between your gardens? Is it actually on the boundary or just close to it? I very much doubt there's any safety problem but possibly a legal one if you're encroaching on the neighbour's airspace (or relying on her e.g. not building a wall directly in front of your flue).
  • seacamseacam Posts: 21,364
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    Yes they would have used a gas engineer when and where appropriate, they have supplied a certificate(s) for the electrical work they have done. (they also fitted a new kitchen).

    At the moment I think technically it might just go into her 'airspace' but I assume the flue could easily be shorten pulling it into our airspace and out of hers.
    Hi Stephen,

    There is no appropriate, to install a boiler they have to be gas safe, pipe work leading up to the boiler so long as not connected by anyone but a qualified installer is OK.

    Your boiler must be signed off by the installer and cert' will be issued. Not having one could possible null your insurance, may make the property hard to sell should you wish to and a retrospective cert' might cost you a few hundred.

    If actual flue invades, right is on her side but exhaust gas, so long as it is not invading her home, you should be OK.

    But there are examples I've dealt with where an installation complies as to the fitting of a flue but gases invade and a solution has had to be found, extending it, that type of thing.
  • stephen122333stephen122333 Posts: 912
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    The flue comes out the side of our conservatory and as she has no extension it goes into her garden well away from the back of her house (approx 240cm) The flue is quite long when it exits the conservatory and as such it over hangs her garden by a few cms (about the very end/cap of the flue) , I assume that this could easily be shortened removing the over hang. But she didnt seem worried about the overhang just the direction.

    Of course we would like to keep her happy and change the direction/height of the flue, but if this isnt easily possible due to either legal/construction restrictions

    Have a look here
  • CroctacusCroctacus Posts: 18,216
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    I used to work for a heating company and the regulations used to be that any flues had to be at least 600mmfrom any neighbouring boundary. I don't know the current regs but can't imagine it's changed that much so if your flue is over their garden it is breaking the regulations which means it's been fitted by a cowboy.
  • seacamseacam Posts: 21,364
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    The flue comes out the side of our conservatory and as she has no extension it goes into her garden well away from the back of her house (approx 240cm) The flue is quite long when it exits the conservatory and as such it over hangs her garden by a few cms (about the very end/cap of the flue) , I assume that this could easily be shortened removing the over hang. But she didnt seem worried about the overhang just the direction.

    Of course we would like to keep her happy and change the direction/height of the flue, but if this isnt easily possible due to either legal/construction restrictions

    Have a look here

    Hi Stephen,

    Many of us here on DS are only to aware some installers slap a combi on a wall with out much thought to the regs'.

    Yours is one of them, if I understand you correctly and the photo is a little deceptive, the flue is 10 inches away from her nearest opening, not on.

    Your fortunate your neighbour is easy going on any over hang, ( although that may come back to haunt you should she decide to sell ). I have known 2mm to cause a feud and many hundreds of pounds to resolve,--- ridiculous.

    Am I correct in thinking you moved from a floor mount to a combi?

    I like to give solutions and there are at least a couple of options open to you. However because I believe it was not a gas safe engineer who installed that combi/flue, ( if it was they need retraining), because it was your builders that installed it and has done you no favours, as an installer I would suspect the whole installation and that is my advise to you.

    Even if he get's some sap to lend his name to the installation/cert', it's doing you no favours.

    You are not a gas engineer so to a degree you are not at fault but some new kitchens/extensions simply don't lend well to wall combies with out convoluted, unattractive flue options, it's a bitch but there it is. And just occasionally a consumer is stuck with floor mount .

    In this instance I believe the CH installers here on DS would be doing you no favours to proffer solutions. You need a gas safe engineer to check your installation.

    Installing a flue in that fashion is not a mistake, it's a hope and a prayer, either yours or the builders.

    Your flue issue is not insurmountable it can be resolved,---by someone who knows what they are doing, telling you what is permissible and complying.

    I appreciate you want to do resolve this, your neighbour has every right to be concerned and so should you.
  • stephen122333stephen122333 Posts: 912
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    seacam wrote: »
    Hi Stephen,

    Many of us here on DS are only to aware some installers slap a combi on a wall with out much thought to the regs'.

    Yours is one of them, if I understand you correctly and the photo is a little deceptive, the flue is 10 inches away from her nearest opening, not on.

    Your fortunate your neighbour is easy going on any over hang, ( although that may come back to haunt you should she decide to sell ). I have known 2mm to cause a feud and many hundreds of pounds to resolve,--- ridiculous.

    Am I correct in thinking you moved from a floor mount to a combi?

    I like to give solutions and there are at least a couple of options open to you. However because I believe it was not a gas safe engineer who installed that combi/flue, ( if it was they need retraining), because it was your builders that installed it and has done you no favours, as an installer I would suspect the whole installation and that is my advise to you.

    Even if he get's some sap to lend his name to the installation/cert', it's doing you no favours.

    You are not a gas engineer so to a degree you are not at fault but some new kitchens/extensions simply don't lend well to wall combies with out convoluted, unattractive flue options, it's a bitch but there it is. And just occasionally a consumer is stuck with floor mount .

    In this instance I believe the CH installers here on DS would be doing you no favours to proffer solutions. You need a gas safe engineer to check your installation.

    Installing a flue in that fashion is not a mistake, it's a hope and a prayer, either yours or the builders.

    Your flue issue is not insurmountable it can be resolved,---by someone who knows what they are doing, telling you what is permissible and complying.

    I appreciate you want to do resolve this, your neighbour has every right to be concerned and so should you.



    The flue is at least 2m away from her back door (the nearest openning) so way more than 10inches.

    We currently have a water heater (we turn on the hot tap and it makes hot water) and its flue points out the back of our conservatory.

    Would they be able to shorten the flue slightly pulling it back from the boundary line? She might not be happy but as it is well away from her house and doesnt over hang her property would she be able to do anything?
  • seacamseacam Posts: 21,364
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    The flue is at least 2m away from her back door (the nearest openning) so way more than 10inches.

    We currently have a water heater (we turn on the hot tap and it makes hot water) and its flue points out the back of our conservatory.

    Would they be able to shorten the flue slightly pulling it back from the boundary line? She might not be happy but as it is well away from her house and doesnt over hang her property would she be able to do anything?
    Hi,

    That's not how you described it so thought your photo was being deceptive due to the angle.

    2m, in all circumstances is more then enough clearance but may still cause issues, so she may still have an argument but unlikely to win unless she can show exhaust gases entering.

    So long as the flue is correct length and complies with regs' shortened it,---but--- from your photo' I would be a little wary of your own flat roof line.
  • molliepopsmolliepops Posts: 26,821
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    All our flues all 42 of them point at each other's flats. No one has had any problem with exhaust fumes. I'd suggest she is perfectly safe as long as your boiler was installed correctly.
  • Elvisfan4evaElvisfan4eva Posts: 15,117
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    Yes they would have used a gas engineer when and where appropriate, they have supplied a certificate(s) for the electrical work they have done. (they also fitted a new kitchen).

    At the moment I think technically it might just go into her 'airspace' but I assume the flue could easily be shorten pulling it into our airspace and out of hers.

    TBH I'd have asked for the guy's Gas Safe registration number BEFORE they started any work. You can look them up online with that number.
  • TUTV ViewerTUTV Viewer Posts: 6,236
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    So it's in breach of the rules as it's less than 60cm (approx 2ft from the boundary).

    Given the difference in height, it's likely to be a nuisance too as the vapour will be blowing straight into the face of anyone on the neighbouring path.

    Looks like you've had the cowboys in and are risking a £5000 fine.
  • seacamseacam Posts: 21,364
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    So it's in breach of the rules as it's less than 60cm (approx 2ft from the boundary).

    Given the difference in height, it's likely to be a nuisance too as the vapour will be blowing straight into the face of anyone on the neighbouring path.

    Looks like you've had the cowboys in and are risking a £5000 fine.
    Hi TUTV,

    Not 2ft but 2m according to the OP.
  • RoushRoush Posts: 4,366
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    Part J of the Building Regulations specify a minimum distance of 600mm between a flue terminal and a boundary when the terminal faces the boundary.

    The exhaust gasses need to be sufficiently dissipated as to be considered safe before they pass the boundary of the property on which the appliance is situated.
  • stephen122333stephen122333 Posts: 912
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    I think there may be confusion including my own on the distances required from their house and or their garden.

    It is at least 2m away from their house, but is on the boundary of their garden to our conservatory.

    It is way above head height, I am 175cm and I don't think I would be able to touch it with my arms straight above my head
  • stephen122333stephen122333 Posts: 912
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    Roush wrote: »
    Part J of the Building Regulations specify a minimum distance of 600mm between a flue terminal and a boundary when the terminal faces the boundary.

    The exhaust gasses need to be sufficiently dissipated as to be considered safe before they pass the boundary of the property on which the appliance is situated.


    Would I be correct in assuming that in a wide open garden with no other walls other than our conservatory and their house that the gasses would be deemed sufficiently dissipated as soon as they left the flue. Ultimately there is no risk (as I understand it) from carbon monoxide due to there being no shortage to oxygen.
  • RoushRoush Posts: 4,366
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    No. Absolutely not. You cannot site a flue on a boundary line and blast exhaust gases onto someone else's land.

    There needs to be sufficient space for the gasses to safely dissipate ON YOUR LAND.
  • davidmcndavidmcn Posts: 12,086
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    Would I be correct in assuming that in a wide open garden with no other walls other than our conservatory and their house that the gasses would be deemed sufficiently dissipated as soon as they left the flue. Ultimately there is no risk (as I understand it) from carbon monoxide due to there being no shortage to oxygen.

    That relies on their garden remaining wide and open. They've got no obligation to you not to develop it in a way which blocks your flue.
  • DMN1968DMN1968 Posts: 2,875
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    We had a problem with a neighbour in one of our BTLs a few years ago. They had a new boiler installed which was situated in their loft, and the flue was on the side wall. My tenant complained to us, that as our house was set back from theirs, it meaned the gases from the flue were coming into their bedroom, not to mention the noise preventing them from sleeping. After we complained to the neighbour, their action was "tough", and my tenant threatened to move out.

    We took it up with the council, who took both gas and noise measurements and found it failed both, and condemned their new boiler. Unfortunately for them, the person who installed it could not be contacted, so they had to spend a lot of money getting the flue exhaust repositioned, not to mention several weeks without heating.

    But our tenant was happy - so happy, they are still in the house!
  • seacamseacam Posts: 21,364
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    Would I be correct in assuming that in a wide open garden with no other walls other than our conservatory and their house that the gasses would be deemed sufficiently dissipated as soon as they left the flue. Ultimately there is no risk (as I understand it) from carbon monoxide due to there being no shortage to oxygen.
    No you cannot assume that, the regs' meet a minimum standard, a catch all attempt under reasonable conditions. If your neighbour can show nuisance regardless of you meeting your legal requirements or if she can show that the combi was not installed by a gas safe engineer and no cert' and she can check this, you will have issues.

    Gases don't immediately dissipate the moment they leave a flue, they exit.
  • TrajetTrajet Posts: 2,380
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    If the neighbour were to build an extension the same size as yours you would find that your flue would no longer be compliant with the regulations. ( Although I agree with TUTV & Roush that it is not compliant now).

    To save time-shifting the problem, I would take Seacam's advice and have it corrected now.
  • MaxatoriaMaxatoria Posts: 17,980
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    That looks badly or cheaply installed shall we say but chatting to the guy who did my last gas safety check its not uncommon for companies to hire plumbers who know how to solder a joint and lets just say make them fit boilers as cheap as chips.

    Theres vent kits around and a while back we was joking of using it for hamster runs etc and i'd doubt that the cost would seriously harm the bill.
  • stephen122333stephen122333 Posts: 912
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    thanks for all the feed back, I will talk to the builders tomorrow, in their defence I have yet to speak to them at all on this issue and with the boiler not yet working they may have something else planed.
  • roger_50roger_50 Posts: 6,895
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    I have to be honest, looking at that photo I wouldn't be happy with it there either. It's basically pumping the gases out directly onto their property.

    It's not even a question of shortening it. The whole flue needs to be relocated. Whether you can do that by curving the flue upwards and over the flat roof, or along the side and facing your own garden I don't know.

    But that side of your conservatory is simply too close to their border to have a flue exiting there I'd say.
  • Galaxy266Galaxy266 Posts: 7,049
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    Couldn't the installer just shorten the flue a bit and put a 90 degree elbow on the end pointing upwards with another piece of pipe attached? It would then be like a small chimney.
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