Could the TARDIS from The Lodger be the future Doctor's TARDIS and could he have been the one making it in The Lodger its the kind of timey wimey thing Moffat would do.
well i did think that, but then, wouldn't the future Doc's Tardis likely just be a future version of the normal Tardis...unless of course he lost it somehow along the way.
Got home late from work so missed DW. Thank heavens for Sky + so I could sit quietly & watch.
Mrs BB ensured I had a cold beer while I enjoyed the the first episode of the new series knowing I'd been loking forward to it all day.
What can I say?
I loved it. Lots of questions & few answers.
So pleased to see the return of River Song (Alex Kingston is gorgeous).
I liked it. The Silents are great, but the plot was confusing - possibly too confusing for casual viewers.
I also thought that the Doctor being gunned down at the start of the episode at the start of a brand new series was silly. There was no threat whatsoever - as if they'd have 12 more episodes of Doctor Who without the Doctor.
Good Opener - Some Well-placed Musical Scores and a rather creepy Proper villain of the shady and "WTF is THAT?" school not Seen since the Angels took their bow waaaaay back in 2007; Mind; I Do think it dragged at times though and then sped up again JUST when you thought it would stay slow - Particularly liked the Tardis 'Decloaking' and the frentic "Turn Her Blue!!" In Mid Rugby Scrum scene from the Doctor
Anyway Just a thought - I'm probably Totally wrong on this but I'm not sold at All on the prevailing wisdom that River is something to do with the Tardis; No, I Think she Might Just be involved as a character to do with Amy somehow; Anyway never mind what I think but I was wondering? Does Anyone Else THINK the Astronaut is River Song as a Child? And that the REASON it/she shoots the Doctor at the end? Is because it's a combination of revenge for him shooting Her all those years ago although she maybe mixed up Amy and the Doc'? In terms of WHO had shot her.
Well that and also that matters may have FINALLY reached the point of Absolute Separation between River and the Doctor? You know the one about which she told Rory? "It might just kill me"? I've gone over all the times we've seen River in my head and as I remember it? EACH time she appears? She seems that little bit younger whilst the Doctor'? Seems to get a bit older and know her less - Anyway I wonder if the thought of a life without the Doctor is to much for her because and THIS is the other thing I think?
What if River's Amy's Daughter? What if the child Amy may now be "Pregnant" with? Is the Doctor's Future (and ONLY) Proper "Partner/Companion" in the M/F sense? If that's the case? Would it be a surprise How attached River is to him given How much her possible mother is stuck on him? He'd be a virtual RELIGION to River Song if This was the case and the murder Could be the result of her feeling The worst abandoment anyone could feel - That of someone whose grown up worshipping someone, been in love with and shared a life with another person and after all that? Then? Realised that person has grown so far away from them that they don't even KNOW their former partner anymore. It could Drive Anyone to murder or certainly make them more than a little :mad:
Anyone of course certainly includes a woman like River - After all hypothetically IF Amy's her mother? If the Doctor Can drive her to do That and shoot her own (as yet unknown) daughter to save Him? What else can he drive people to? As Rory said in VOV - He doesn't know HOW dangerous he makes people to themselves around him - Well, I've a feeling that? On THAT front at least come the end of this series? We'll have more than enough answers on that front and then some..................
NB Of course this DOESN'T quite explain WHY River would be So young in the Astronaut's suit or so out of time that she'd be a CHILD in 1969; but I'm sure we'll find that out in time. And the more I think about it? The more Amy as her Mother sort of fits in a weird, mad, Moffatt, memory twisting, mind bender, head games sort of way yes? I think so anyway............
NNB I FIRST thought the murder might be something to do with Delaware's "5 mins to explain it before I'll shoot you" promise to the Doctor being somehow broken but then dismissed that and Yes, I'm aware the theory I DID put up seems a bit mad and has a lot of holes but I've an Uncanny feeling that River and Amy are Something to do with one another somehow And that it's somehow tied up with River and the Doctor. THAT is what I came up with - Thus far Subject to change as I expand upon it further of course LOL We shall see - Soon enough - Time will tell as it always does. Most especially here.................
NNNB I wonder if the Doctor's going to USE the moon to somehow weaken or destroy the Silence - At least the ones in the 60's - FAR from the only ones if the Lodger and the fact Moffatt's planned This for what 2 decades? According to Some reports is anything to go by - But the 'Next Time' Trailer? Indicates that the Moon WILL be involved somehow and If as I suspect the World Is conquered by them already?
Well - It stands to reason that then? The Doc' NEEDS somewhere they're not yet entrenched and the "Lot more" he referred to as happening in 1969 but which isn't widely known? What's the betting THAT is a secret war or revolution of some sort led by the Doctor and Using the Moon as a weapon somehow or maybe the Landing Craft/Landing itself to drive the Silence Army OFF the Earth or destroy it?
Again these are just thoughts of mine - Feel free to comment. But be gentle - They're NOT spoilers - Just what I think myself and I tend to be :eek: when it comes to predicting things so am probably talking a LOAD of rubbish - You NEVER know though............
OK I'm done now - See what you think. Thanks for your time all.
just looking round, and found that the actress who plays the little girl, Sydney Wade, also played the role of Alex Kingston's daughter on Marchlands. Her character's name? Amy. :eek:
^^Please learn to use question marks properly, that was the most infuriating message board post ever, nothing to do with the opinions, just the punctuation.*
Anyway, what a great start, I was a bit iffy on the early 'killing' of the Doc for the same reason MD1500 mentions, but soon got over it and really enjoyed the episode, I'm not one to go into possible future events and theories, I just tend to enjoy the ride, I will say though it was great to see Romo Lampkin from BSG!
Anyway, do I gather people are theorising that River Song might be Amy Pond's as-yet unborn baby? Surely with RS being long-described as The Doctor's Wife, and with more than a bit ofd cheekiness between the pair in the last couple of years, that would be just WIERD!
Oh yes, and a little annoyed that they have written Rory a tad cowardly again after we established his immense bravery at the end of last series.
Not cowardly just cautious. Let's be honest, having a room full of secret service men (headed by The Operative no less, eek!) waving guns around would make most people a tad twitchy and as for wandering off down a darkened manhole into tunnels straight out of aliens... Frankly I think it makes Rory one of the stronger companions we've seen, he's got common sense and a healthy respect for his own mortality but goes anyway and, you know, will throw himself in front of anything to protect those he's with. Then again I'm a subscriber to the school of thought that goes 'It's only heroic if you're scared to death but do it anyway'.
Norfolk Boy - Were you talking to Me about Punctuation? Edit just seen you were Sorry, I Usually type like that - I'll Try and change it maybe in a bit just for you though depending on my mood;
Anyway - You say River Song being Amy's Daughter would be Weird? :eek: Style? Well that's Precisely what this series IS according to Moffett and more particularly River herself - He believes it will "Knock Us Sideways" When we discover Who River is - How Much More sideways could it knock us than by Amy? Ending up as his sort of Mother-In-Law?
Headgames and then some I think You'll agree and eminently Steven Moffat - A plot within a conundrum within a puzzle with bells, whistles and switches on Which IS of course? Exactly what Moffat Wants it to be without a doubt. That man will have us running round in circles with our heads chasing our tails before he's done This time methinks.................:cool:
NB Another thought of mine? What If the Astronaut isn't Amy - Isn't a girl at all and instead? That shout of "Rory!!" From River was Because? He had somehow been turned to a child and Was the Astronaut instead? Also equally possible in the mad, magical world of Moffat no?
I almost wrote cautious . I wasnt comfortable with cowardly but I see it as somewhere between.
Considering he stood and guarded Amy through fire and battle for so many years, I would have thought they would have written him a bit stronger now. (Like he was at end series?)
Norfolk Boy - Were you talking to Me about Punctuation? Sorry, I ALWAYS type like that; Anyway - You say River Song being Amy's Daughter would be WEIRD? :eek: Style? Well that's Precisely what this series IS according to Moffett and more particularly River herself - He believes it will "Knock Us Sideways" When we discover WHO River is - How Much More sideways could it knock us than by Amy? Ending up as his sort of Mother-In-Law? Headgames and then some I think You'll agree and eminently Steven Moffat - A plot within a conundrum within a puzzle with bells, whistles and switches on Which IS of course? Exactly what Moffat WANTS it to be without a doubt. That man will have us running round in circles with our heads chasing our tails before he's done THIS time methinks.................:cool:
Putting a question mark in the middle of the question you are asking makes the post a bit tough to get through TBH (like the second bolded bit).
Actually you're right, the idea of River being the kid is not as weird as I initially was thinking, my brain hasn't properly engaged yet, but as I think about it it's not a bad theory at all.
I haven't read any message board or articles in the build-up to this series and have decided to watch it and judge it solely on it's own merits, so I'm completely cold on all popular theories and even the term "Silents."
Ok - Thanks for Considering my theory NorfolkBoy and Will Try to use the bold method from now on - Why did I come up with that particular theory you may be thinking? Well, in case you're wondering - It's because it's the Only way I can think of that Moffat could of plausibly hung it All together somehow - And yes I think Everything in this series - Everything Since Silence in the Library (A Clue in a Title if ever there was one ) actually has been planned like this by Moffat and thus hangs together somehow. And I can't shake the feeling that River and Amy? Are connected somehow and very strongly/personally as well...........
Quite the feat of planning some would say - But then if you've Had that idea in your head since childhood? Not that difficult at all As long as it's written down somewhere - This just has the air to me of something Moffat's been planning for a Very long time - As I said though? We'll find out no doubt just how it all hangs together and if I know our beloved Head Writer? He'll probably leave still More out for the next series to solve as he did circa Series 5 through 6. We shall see soon enough though whatever happens? I'm sure we'll all enjoy the ride..................:cool:
NB As you know? 'Silents' are supposedly the series 'Baddie' first seen in the White House Toilets - My Question re' them? Do they have a Leader of some sort - If so Who/What? and was it They who sabotaged the Tardis - Threaten the Doctor re Killing "Hundreds of Time Lords Etc"? So many questions - So few answers as yet!!!
I thought it was a rather good episode, quite disturbing and dark. I'm not sure what under-tens would think of it. It would probably scare me if I were that age.
The premise of the Doctor dying is a bit cheaty-wheaty as we all know time can be altered, but it was fun to see the Timelord snuff it. Moffat does exploit the time travel gimmick of the show to get away with murder, quite literally.
I thought it was a rather good episode, quite disturbing and dark. I'm not sure what under-tens would think of it. It would probably scare me if I were that age.
IMHO that is what Doctor Who should be all about, scaring the bejesus out of kids while providing an entertaining romp for the youthfully-minded grow-ups, it's an old cliche but I literaly would spend most episodes of Davison/McCoy-era Who hiding behind the sofa.
I've posted this on another thread, but Al Muray tweeted the following, which should explain how the episode came across to the younger audience:
Watched #drwho with 5 kids. 2 covered their eyes for half of it, nephew lay on the floor head under a towel saying "what's happening?"
Floopy? The thing is - Moffat Always writes them like Fairy Tales (i.e. with Children in mind) - Figure That out and follow the way the episodes are going with Children/Fairy Tales/What Appeals to a Child/Shocks/Keeps them hooked the most? And you Might be able to try and predict what's coming next - That's how I made My predictions - I followed what would shock and hook children the most with adults a close second? Considered How Moffat would hang the story together so as to appeal to children And hook adults and the results are above - They may not be right - But I think the Key to understanding Moffat? Is that he sees all This? - Dr Who The Series - With Him as Head Writer etc? As his chance to write Fairy Tales and Kids Adventures, sort of Return Who to it's roots (half kids adventure/half dark, meaningful story) as he remembers them - More like Classic Who, ala the Who He remembers.
NB A couple more points? I wonder if the 'Silence' have been there - Hovering in the Background all the time Since "Silence In The Library"? Think about it - They were Definitely there when the Doc' died last night. His Tardis wasn't - The Later Doctors that is; Did they destroy it Again after all? Then if you go back to when River died in the Library? With That title and Deaths in the Shadows/Killings By the Darkness? Was it Them again? Maybe they hunt down and Try to finish off the Doctor And River as their deadliest Two enemies in need of Killing for whatever reason? And there was also that "and then you forgot" trick of Dr Moon's in the Library to consider; In addition; The time gap and forgetting of certain facts on TBB that were never explained on Starship UK. All look a little different now when you look at them with the "Silence" in mind yes?
Well anyway - Take all this? Look at it in terms of it being planned for a Long time? (The whole Silence Arc) and what Will shock/draw in kids and adults the most in a fairy tale manner? And who knows what you might come up with? However - Then think of a Big Bad in the form of the Leader of the 'Silence' (and Yes, I'm pretty certain He/It Does Exist and will show up by the end of the series somehow or another) being behind it All since waaay back towards the end of the days of Tennant? All planned and executed with No mention of them for 3 and a half years yet the Idea of them being there and then linking back to seemingly random happenings earlier that now take on new meanings? Well, It's safe to say, That is pure Moffat and then some...............
IMHO that is what Doctor Who should be all about, scaring the bejesus out of kids while providing an entertaining romp for the youthfully-minded grow-ups, it's an old cliche but I literaly would spend most episodes of Davison/McCoy-era Who hiding behind the sofa.
I've posted this on another thread, but Al Muray tweeted the following, which should explain how the episode came across to the younger audience:
There are not that many moments that really warrant this though are there, even from a kid, I don't think there was anything in this episode that was worse than any episode before hand.
Comments
my word how very play school!
well i did think that, but then, wouldn't the future Doc's Tardis likely just be a future version of the normal Tardis...unless of course he lost it somehow along the way.
And Muttley, yeah, my first thought about older Doc 11 was "where's HIS Tardis...?". I doubt that's just been forgotten about.
i dunno about the former, maybe we will find out next week...:)
the latter may yet wind up being a significant point this series i think...:)
Mrs BB ensured I had a cold beer while I enjoyed the the first episode of the new series knowing I'd been loking forward to it all day.
What can I say?
I loved it. Lots of questions & few answers.
So pleased to see the return of River Song (Alex Kingston is gorgeous).
As for these new aliens they are creepy as hell.
Look forward to finding out more about them.
I also thought that the Doctor being gunned down at the start of the episode at the start of a brand new series was silly. There was no threat whatsoever - as if they'd have 12 more episodes of Doctor Who without the Doctor.
Having said that, I did enjoy it and can't wait for next week.
But I was so desperate to see it, I lapped it up warts and all.
*sigh* loved it
Anyway Just a thought - I'm probably Totally wrong on this but I'm not sold at All on the prevailing wisdom that River is something to do with the Tardis; No, I Think she Might Just be involved as a character to do with Amy somehow; Anyway never mind what I think but I was wondering? Does Anyone Else THINK the Astronaut is River Song as a Child? And that the REASON it/she shoots the Doctor at the end? Is because it's a combination of revenge for him shooting Her all those years ago although she maybe mixed up Amy and the Doc'? In terms of WHO had shot her.
Well that and also that matters may have FINALLY reached the point of Absolute Separation between River and the Doctor? You know the one about which she told Rory? "It might just kill me"? I've gone over all the times we've seen River in my head and as I remember it? EACH time she appears? She seems that little bit younger whilst the Doctor'? Seems to get a bit older and know her less - Anyway I wonder if the thought of a life without the Doctor is to much for her because and THIS is the other thing I think?
What if River's Amy's Daughter? What if the child Amy may now be "Pregnant" with? Is the Doctor's Future (and ONLY) Proper "Partner/Companion" in the M/F sense? If that's the case? Would it be a surprise How attached River is to him given How much her possible mother is stuck on him? He'd be a virtual RELIGION to River Song if This was the case and the murder Could be the result of her feeling The worst abandoment anyone could feel - That of someone whose grown up worshipping someone, been in love with and shared a life with another person and after all that? Then? Realised that person has grown so far away from them that they don't even KNOW their former partner anymore. It could Drive Anyone to murder or certainly make them more than a little :mad:
Anyone of course certainly includes a woman like River - After all hypothetically IF Amy's her mother? If the Doctor Can drive her to do That and shoot her own (as yet unknown) daughter to save Him? What else can he drive people to? As Rory said in VOV - He doesn't know HOW dangerous he makes people to themselves around him - Well, I've a feeling that? On THAT front at least come the end of this series? We'll have more than enough answers on that front and then some..................
NB Of course this DOESN'T quite explain WHY River would be So young in the Astronaut's suit or so out of time that she'd be a CHILD in 1969; but I'm sure we'll find that out in time. And the more I think about it? The more Amy as her Mother sort of fits in a weird, mad, Moffatt, memory twisting, mind bender, head games sort of way yes? I think so anyway............
NNB I FIRST thought the murder might be something to do with Delaware's "5 mins to explain it before I'll shoot you" promise to the Doctor being somehow broken but then dismissed that and Yes, I'm aware the theory I DID put up seems a bit mad and has a lot of holes but I've an Uncanny feeling that River and Amy are Something to do with one another somehow And that it's somehow tied up with River and the Doctor. THAT is what I came up with - Thus far Subject to change as I expand upon it further of course LOL We shall see - Soon enough - Time will tell as it always does. Most especially here.................
NNNB I wonder if the Doctor's going to USE the moon to somehow weaken or destroy the Silence - At least the ones in the 60's - FAR from the only ones if the Lodger and the fact Moffatt's planned This for what 2 decades? According to Some reports is anything to go by - But the 'Next Time' Trailer? Indicates that the Moon WILL be involved somehow and If as I suspect the World Is conquered by them already?
Well - It stands to reason that then? The Doc' NEEDS somewhere they're not yet entrenched and the "Lot more" he referred to as happening in 1969 but which isn't widely known? What's the betting THAT is a secret war or revolution of some sort led by the Doctor and Using the Moon as a weapon somehow or maybe the Landing Craft/Landing itself to drive the Silence Army OFF the Earth or destroy it?
Again these are just thoughts of mine - Feel free to comment. But be gentle - They're NOT spoilers - Just what I think myself and I tend to be :eek: when it comes to predicting things so am probably talking a LOAD of rubbish - You NEVER know though............
OK I'm done now - See what you think. Thanks for your time all.
Anyway, what a great start, I was a bit iffy on the early 'killing' of the Doc for the same reason MD1500 mentions, but soon got over it and really enjoyed the episode, I'm not one to go into possible future events and theories, I just tend to enjoy the ride, I will say though it was great to see Romo Lampkin from BSG!
Anyway, do I gather people are theorising that River Song might be Amy Pond's as-yet unborn baby? Surely with RS being long-described as The Doctor's Wife, and with more than a bit ofd cheekiness between the pair in the last couple of years, that would be just WIERD!
*That's FAO Redshadow77 btw.
Not cowardly just cautious. Let's be honest, having a room full of secret service men (headed by The Operative no less, eek!) waving guns around would make most people a tad twitchy and as for wandering off down a darkened manhole into tunnels straight out of aliens... Frankly I think it makes Rory one of the stronger companions we've seen, he's got common sense and a healthy respect for his own mortality but goes anyway and, you know, will throw himself in front of anything to protect those he's with. Then again I'm a subscriber to the school of thought that goes 'It's only heroic if you're scared to death but do it anyway'.
Anyway - You say River Song being Amy's Daughter would be Weird? :eek: Style? Well that's Precisely what this series IS according to Moffett and more particularly River herself - He believes it will "Knock Us Sideways" When we discover Who River is - How Much More sideways could it knock us than by Amy? Ending up as his sort of Mother-In-Law?
Headgames and then some I think You'll agree and eminently Steven Moffat - A plot within a conundrum within a puzzle with bells, whistles and switches on Which IS of course? Exactly what Moffat Wants it to be without a doubt. That man will have us running round in circles with our heads chasing our tails before he's done This time methinks.................:cool:
NB Another thought of mine? What If the Astronaut isn't Amy - Isn't a girl at all and instead? That shout of "Rory!!" From River was Because? He had somehow been turned to a child and Was the Astronaut instead? Also equally possible in the mad, magical world of Moffat no?
Considering he stood and guarded Amy through fire and battle for so many years, I would have thought they would have written him a bit stronger now. (Like he was at end series?)
Putting a question mark in the middle of the question you are asking makes the post a bit tough to get through TBH (like the second bolded bit).
Actually you're right, the idea of River being the kid is not as weird as I initially was thinking, my brain hasn't properly engaged yet, but as I think about it it's not a bad theory at all.
I haven't read any message board or articles in the build-up to this series and have decided to watch it and judge it solely on it's own merits, so I'm completely cold on all popular theories and even the term "Silents."
Sorry Double Post Here Grr Darn Keyboard!!!!
Quite the feat of planning some would say - But then if you've Had that idea in your head since childhood? Not that difficult at all As long as it's written down somewhere - This just has the air to me of something Moffat's been planning for a Very long time - As I said though? We'll find out no doubt just how it all hangs together and if I know our beloved Head Writer? He'll probably leave still More out for the next series to solve as he did circa Series 5 through 6. We shall see soon enough though whatever happens? I'm sure we'll all enjoy the ride..................:cool:
NB As you know? 'Silents' are supposedly the series 'Baddie' first seen in the White House Toilets - My Question re' them? Do they have a Leader of some sort - If so Who/What? and was it They who sabotaged the Tardis - Threaten the Doctor re Killing "Hundreds of Time Lords Etc"? So many questions - So few answers as yet!!!
The premise of the Doctor dying is a bit cheaty-wheaty as we all know time can be altered, but it was fun to see the Timelord snuff it. Moffat does exploit the time travel gimmick of the show to get away with murder, quite literally.
IMHO that is what Doctor Who should be all about, scaring the bejesus out of kids while providing an entertaining romp for the youthfully-minded grow-ups, it's an old cliche but I literaly would spend most episodes of Davison/McCoy-era Who hiding behind the sofa.
I've posted this on another thread, but Al Muray tweeted the following, which should explain how the episode came across to the younger audience:
NB A couple more points? I wonder if the 'Silence' have been there - Hovering in the Background all the time Since "Silence In The Library"? Think about it - They were Definitely there when the Doc' died last night. His Tardis wasn't - The Later Doctors that is; Did they destroy it Again after all? Then if you go back to when River died in the Library? With That title and Deaths in the Shadows/Killings By the Darkness? Was it Them again? Maybe they hunt down and Try to finish off the Doctor And River as their deadliest Two enemies in need of Killing for whatever reason? And there was also that "and then you forgot" trick of Dr Moon's in the Library to consider; In addition; The time gap and forgetting of certain facts on TBB that were never explained on Starship UK. All look a little different now when you look at them with the "Silence" in mind yes?
Well anyway - Take all this? Look at it in terms of it being planned for a Long time? (The whole Silence Arc) and what Will shock/draw in kids and adults the most in a fairy tale manner? And who knows what you might come up with? However - Then think of a Big Bad in the form of the Leader of the 'Silence' (and Yes, I'm pretty certain He/It Does Exist and will show up by the end of the series somehow or another) being behind it All since waaay back towards the end of the days of Tennant? All planned and executed with No mention of them for 3 and a half years yet the Idea of them being there and then linking back to seemingly random happenings earlier that now take on new meanings? Well, It's safe to say, That is pure Moffat and then some...............
Wonder where the future Dr's Tardis is parked?
There are not that many moments that really warrant this though are there, even from a kid, I don't think there was anything in this episode that was worse than any episode before hand.