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IS is incapable of defeat
Dunnroamin
Posts: 2,437 Forum Member
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I am coming to the conclusion that the so called Islamic State cannot be defeated, at least not by military force. These fanatics are not like any ordinary army. True, they use the tools of a modern army, but it is their motivation, their goal that makes them virtually insuperable. The problem, as I see it, is they are fighting not for political or nationalistic reasons, but for an ideology based on an interpretation of a particular religion. They believe totally, that their interpretation of Islam is the correct one and, frankly, I can't see how their blinkered, tunnel vision of what their God demands of them can ever be brought into line with beliefs and behaviour of the rest of mankind. The fact that there are Muslims born and brought up in this country who are joining them tells me that there is something particular and specific about Islam that renders it capable of of such twisted and inhuman interpretation. How do you change the mindset of someone who is so convinced that he is right and you are wrong, that he is prepared to die for his belief. I fear that trying to eliminate this cancerous scourge on mankind is like trying to wipe out a plague of locusts. I hope our security forces and any other agencies tasked with defending us will be vigilant against the threat that I think now faces us. For too long, our politicians and others have turned a blind eye to anti British, anti Western and anti Christian behaviour from certain groups in this country, out of fear of "inflaming a sensitive situation", well, the time for pussy footing is over. It is time for our political masters to read the writing on the wall. Some of us have been aware of the dangers for a long time, and have voiced our fears, but they have fallen on deaf ears, now, maybe, they will listen.
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Yes IDS is incapable of defeat.
They have reported on the retaking of Mosul dam.
The reason they couldn't manage Syria was because Russia and Iran were backing Syrian government, whereas the shell of an army in Iraq can't take care of itself despite all the arms they were sold, just to think if it weren't for Putin outing the opposition in Syria for what they were we were going to arm these terrorists. I wonder how we would have got ourselves out of that mess had we gone ahead and supported them!
As much as I hate Putin I am grateful to him on behalf the Syrians for not allowing another moderate Islamic country falling into the hands of terrorist Islam. Shame on us for breading and supporting these people and then letting them lose on innocent people in those countries.
We could wipe them off the map now if we had the political willpower unfortunately Mr Milliband made it virtually impossible to do that.
And of the 30 conservatives who voted against? Blame the opposition for voting against a motion by all means but please start by pointing a finger against those vote against there own party.
1. If it achieves it's end goal of an Islamic State - it will then be like any other country, with a standing army. In any straight out fight they will lose simply because of the technological and numerical advantage that the Western Democracies have. Even without them can you see the likes of Russia and China tolerating any country that is a threat to their power?
In the past it was the control of the sea which was required for military power - hence the rise of the British Empire and Germany's naval growth prior to World War I. Then it was the air - which for the UK saw off Germany's Luftwaffe during the Battle Of Britain - a precursor to a successful invasion of the British mainland. Now it is space and again it is the US and Russia which controls this sphere and so has the upper hand. ISIS will be unable to move troops without the US knowing about it.
The other is more prosaic. Ideas are always difficult to defeat, unless you have a better one and simply put - while far from perfect the Western ideal of democracy, and a (generally) free market has seen people way better off. Certainly if you look at theocracies they are not known for free thinking ideas and wealth - not of your average person. Consider further how in the West things have changed. From the 15th century when the church ruled all, could topple Monarchs - now we have a generally secular society where ideas and freedoms abound. No longer do with persecute homosexuals (not as a society anyway).
People are going to look to the clerics and their power and wonder when it is time for the average person. That is going to create tensions that will eventually tear apart any state that ISIS may create.
You don't get it do you ?
Don't confuse this with a war where two opposing armies are facing each other , this is a war against a belief not a country.The IS army doesn't wear uniforms so can'r be separated from civilians they both look and dress the same , the followers have no wish for democracy or freedom they want to live the life they are told to by their holy book and cannot be reasoned with and are more than happy to die in their thousands as the think they will get a reward in their heaven
Its sad but the only way to deal with the threat is the same way as Israel is dealing Hamas and thats total destruction of the area they inhabit , as long as just one of them is alive they are a danger
Yes I do and you did not read what I said anyway. ISIS wants to become a state and where are ISIS hiding with civilians - they are killing civilians, but they are not Hamas. They want to set up a state and like all states they will have a standing army - and a standing army will not have the ability to face the technological and numerical superiority. Already you have the likes of Saudi Arabia concerned by a powerful theocracy on their borders. Egypt to is equally concerned. Now the US is getting involved as well.
Further bombing civilians will not work - all you will do is drive ever more people to extremism - precisely what happened when Bush and Blair decided to bomb Iraq into the stone age. You will become what you most despise. That is what the likes of ISIS want - they want us to drive people to them, it gives them more power.
Oppressive regimes never succeed, never last - they either reform or are destroyed from within. That is what will do for ISIS. There is nothing magical about ISIS. Apart from the fact they arose fairly fast - so they do not have the internal structures that a more established states - they are going to end up tearing themselves apart. There is a vast difference between being the rebels and being a government and that transition is not that easy - nor is it the kind of thing that attracts the same kind of people - those people are not going to adjust to being administrators.
Hamas the same as IS want a worldwide Islamic Caliphate to them anyone who is a Muslim is a soldier in their war against everyone else
Do not make the mistake of thinking this a conventional war it isn't its something completely new and different to what we have ever seen before
Interesting that you now believe Israel wants to destroy the whole of Gaza (civilians too, presumably).
Ever heard the phrase "from small acorns....." ?
You're the one who has accused them of over reaction in dealing with Hamas not me I have always supported them in what they are doing to eliminate the threat they face and have also said we need to take the same actions
Some how we need to define a line and say that anyone over the line is the enemy.
Unlike most wars were each side can be clearly defined, IS can hide amongst the general population.
You want the answer? Those freedoms you cite are man made, and even more to the point, they are provided by Infidels, your bog standard Islamic fanatic believes he (or she) is rejecting them in the name of Allah, so, for them there is no choice.
No it is not - this started as a rebellion no different to thousands of other rebellions - right back to Boudicca when she burnt the then Roman Capital of Britain and wiped out all the citizens including women and children.
But rebellions either fail or they end up becoming a state with all the apparatus that requires and at that point they will have to face the problems of being a state. Including having an army that will have to face it's opponents in open battle. As ISIS are having to do now.
Look at Israel - it has since being created as a Political entity got to the point that it is an international pariah. That is what happens if you start bombing civilians. We start bombing civilians to get to the likes of ISIS we will just end up driving more to them - making them a bigger enemy, more powerful.
ISIS grew out of an offshoot of Al-Qaida when America invaded Iraq - the very actions which led to the creation of ISIS now people are saying we need to continue. Are they nuts! That is not going to defeat ISIS - it is just going to make it more powerful as it is doing - discrimination of Sunnis and the appointment by Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki to the army leadership loyalists instead of those who are militarily competent has led to an Iraqi army that does not want to fight and is proving unable to defeat ISIS.
ISIS have already had to fight set-piece battles and against a firm opposition it has proven wanting as it will.
I wonder if he will be met the supposed Mossad and CIA agents who allegedly trained IS.
I agreed with the inaction in Syria, nevertheless there is no doubt that that vote has effectively paralysed us.
According to their charter Hamas want to eliminate the state of Isreal and kill all the Jews, and strives to raise the banner of Allah over every inch of Palestine. There is no claim of wanting to create a worldwide islamic state, and Hamas states the presence of other reliigions, excluding the Jews, will be tollerated by Hamas.
Hamas describes this charter as historic and no longer relevant, its aims have now become more moderate, while it does not recognize the right of the state of Isreal to exist it no longer campaigns with the aims of elimintating Isreal and killing all Jews, these days it claims to be more about liberating the occupied terrority and having a Palastinian state, Hamas these days seeks international political recognition.