Firstly, we obviously move in very different circles.
Secondly, I think the number of actual references to Jack's sexuality have been very much overstated. What is mentioned mostly is his tendency to flirt, not quite the same thing. I think his sexuality has been discussed so much outside of the show, the perception of how much it is actually referred to on the show has becomes a little distorted.
Couldn't agree more even if it was ever possible!!! As with most things, some people seem to exaggerate the actual amount of screen time given to those things. I still cannot get over the fact that some people couldn't get past the fact that Sky Silvestry said "She".....some of the reaction was as if they had shown two women having sex!!! None of them moaned about the fact why on Earth the Kane family consisted of a hetrosexual married couple....why the hell did they have to be married, if Sky wasn't allowed to say "She" because it didn't add to the plot??? Things like this speak more volumes about the people who who can't get past a blink and you miss it moment...rather than the actual amount of "gay" stuff there is in Who/TW
I said it before in the Cult thread about this topic and I'll say it again: I don't think there's any evidence that Fox actually wants to make Jack a straight character.
Here's the article that I believe DS and other places grabbed the quote from John Barrowman from:
And more specifically, this is the text that created the furor:
Torchwood’s leading man (and upcoming Desperate Housewives guest star) tells me it’s his strong preference that Fox’s in-the-works American version of his BBC smash would not tinker with his character’s sexuality.
”I hope wherever [the franchise] goes that the show stays the same,” says the openly gay Scottish thesp. “The last thing I would want would be for Jack to become this heterosexual, straight hero. He’s an omnisexual guy. He likes men, women, aliens, whatever. I think we should continue going down that route.”
Any effort to de-gay Capt. Jack would be followed by a “really big discussion,” Barrowman stresses, adding that it would ultimately be up to series creator Russell T. Davies and producing partner Julie Gardner to fight that battle.
My opinion remains the same, that it was just John Barrowman yapping, albeit yapping in reply to a question posed to him. (Although now on reread I guess he may have raised the topic first. But whatever! My annoyance that this is even considered an issue before it actually is a reality remains the same,)
This is what the media do all the time to create stories out of basically nothing. Michael Ausiello may have just as easily asked Barrowman, "What would you think of Fox making Captain Jack blond?" or "What would you think if Fox made Captain Harkness a woman?" or "What would you think if Fox turned the Torchwood team into talking cats and dogs?"
If the American version of Torchwood even makes it onto television, and that's a big if, I'm willing to bet that Jack's sexuality will be the least of the problems with it.
Ellen DeGeneres is a lesbian and she's on the biggest show in America, American Idol, and it's on Fox. OK this is different, partly because it's doubtful her sexuality will ever be mentioned on the show, and the fact that it's not a drama, but if they don't bang on about Jack's sexuality either I can't see there being a problem. Everyone will still know Jack's 'tendancies' just like everyone knows Ellen is a lesbian. And if everyone doesn't accept that they're just being childish homophobes.
This is exactly my perspective.
There are many people I know in real life who can go for a whole day without talking about their sexual preferences, or who they've slept with... I'm sure Jack Harkness could manage it for an hour !!
As with most things, some people seem to exaggerate the actual amount of screen time given to those things. I still cannot get over the fact that some people couldn't get past the fact that Sky Silvestry said "She".....some of the reaction was as if they had shown two women having sex!!! None of them moaned about the fact why on Earth the Kane family consisted of a hetrosexual married couple....why the hell did they have to be married, if Sky wasn't allowed to say "She" because it didn't add to the plot??? Things like this speak more volumes about the people who who can't get past a blink and you miss it moment...rather than the actual amount of "gay" stuff there is in Who/TW
Whilst I agree with you on the issue of a simple mention of 'she' by Sky, I have to disagree on the implication that it is only socially unacceptable issues that are exaggerated by critical viewers. There is a time and a place for everything yes, but Jack's sexual references are certainly not blink-and-you-miss-it moments and sometimes in a story less is more.
I am sure that almost everyone would be either uncomfortable, unhappy or complaining if Matt Smith's Doctor turns out to be a lager swilling, overtly heterosexual lothario; bedding Amy for starters and then going back in time to work his way through the rest of his female (or male, for that matter) companions to see what he's been missing all these years...
I said it before in the Cult thread about this topic and I'll say it again: I don't think there's any evidence that Fox actually wants to make Jack a straight character.
Here's the article that I believe DS and other places grabbed the quote from John Barrowman from:
And more specifically, this is the text that created the furor:
My opinion remains the same, that it was just John Barrowman yapping, albeit yapping in reply to a question posed to him. (Although now on reread I guess he may have raised the topic first. But whatever! My annoyance that this is even considered an issue before it actually is a reality remains the same,)
This is what the media do all the time to create stories out of basically nothing. Michael Ausiello may have just as easily asked Barrowman, "What would you think of Fox making Captain Jack blond?" or "What would you think if Fox made Captain Harkness a woman?" or "What would you think if Fox turned the Torchwood team into talking cats and dogs?"
If the American version of Torchwood even makes it onto television, and that's a big if, I'm willing to bet that Jack's sexuality will be the least of the problems with it.
Fair point!
I would be more interested if they decided to do a series based on what happened to the "lost" Torchwood 4. That way they could set whatever tone they wanted without losing the feel of the UK Torchwood.
This is exactly my perspective.
There are many people I know in real life who can go for a whole day without talking about their sexual preferences, or who they've slept with... I'm sure Jack Harkness could manage it for an hour !!
Whilst I agree with you on the issue of a simple mention of 'she' by Sky, I have to disagree on the implication that it is only socially unacceptable issues that are exaggerated by critical viewers. There is a time and a place for everything yes, but Jack's sexual references are certainly not blink-and-you-miss-it moments and sometimes in a story less is more.
I am sure that almost everyone would be either uncomfortable, unhappy or complaining if Matt Smith's Doctor turns out to be a lager swilling, overtly heterosexual lothario; bedding Amy for starters and then going back in time to work his way through the rest of his female (or male, for that matter) companions to see what he's been missing all these years...
D
Your not getting what I'm trying to say, when I talk about the so called "references" of his sexuality....I'm talking about his flirty nature. Right from the moment go, he is introduced to us as very flirty man...one that flirts with anything basically. To take that away, would be dismissing the character....a handsome man or a beautiful women, or even a beautiful fish be in the same room as Jack, and him not comment....is just weird!
And i didn't say that only "socially unacceptable issues" get exaggerated, I said it is one of those things that does, and stuff that I include in that is the so called romance we have seen in New Who and the family stuff /issues too....none of them actually take up much screen time as people think it does.
And your example just proves how exaggerated things are....you say that everyone would have some problem with the Doctor turning into a hetrosexual lothario, and bedding Amy as well as other companions....well not even Jack has done that, on screen at least...heck when there was a sex mad alien on the loose in TW, Jack still wasn't involved in any "action"....all we have ever got from him is all talk, and a few snogs....we have seen Owen having more sex than Jack! Why the hell else do you think that small minority of people on Live Journal went on about calling RTD a homophobic (makes a change though) because he never dared to show a sex scene with Ianto and Jack, and then killed Ianto off????
The Doctor starting to bed people will be out of character, as we haven't seen him do so, and he neverly overtly talks about his sex life (hence why some people find the queen bess thing a bit "huh??")....but Cpt Jack does, because that is his larger than life, confident flirty self. He isn't talking about his sex life so people know he is omnisexaul, he does because he is a flirt and a show-off, I mean for goodness sake, he even started to tell his Tula ship about his conquest with his two prisnor guards....so if he can tell a machine that, why is he gonna keep his mouth shut in front of people he actually does fancy??? Like I said earlier on, if he had been a quiet and reserved omnisexual, they could go either way with whoever the writers wanted him to fall in love with, without the need for him to mention the opposite/same sex....but when that is part of his flirty nature....why not???
If its like 90% of the other UK/US conversions its going to be a total disaster.
IMO the only show that worked better on US tv was QAF and that was on HBO (who like taking risks) TW will just be a sci-fi version of 24 on Fox.
I was suprised that TW:USA is being developed by
Fox, given they already have a similar "team investigates
weird phenomena show" (Fringe). I thought ABC (need
a "Lost" replacement?) or NBC (replace "Heroes") would
have been better bets.
Comments
Couldn't agree more even if it was ever possible!!! As with most things, some people seem to exaggerate the actual amount of screen time given to those things. I still cannot get over the fact that some people couldn't get past the fact that Sky Silvestry said "She".....some of the reaction was as if they had shown two women having sex!!! None of them moaned about the fact why on Earth the Kane family consisted of a hetrosexual married couple....why the hell did they have to be married, if Sky wasn't allowed to say "She" because it didn't add to the plot??? Things like this speak more volumes about the people who who can't get past a blink and you miss it moment...rather than the actual amount of "gay" stuff there is in Who/TW
Here's the article that I believe DS and other places grabbed the quote from John Barrowman from:
http://ausiellofiles.ew.com/2010/03/19/torchwood-american-version-gay-straight/
And more specifically, this is the text that created the furor:
My opinion remains the same, that it was just John Barrowman yapping, albeit yapping in reply to a question posed to him. (Although now on reread I guess he may have raised the topic first. But whatever! My annoyance that this is even considered an issue before it actually is a reality remains the same,)
This is what the media do all the time to create stories out of basically nothing. Michael Ausiello may have just as easily asked Barrowman, "What would you think of Fox making Captain Jack blond?" or "What would you think if Fox made Captain Harkness a woman?" or "What would you think if Fox turned the Torchwood team into talking cats and dogs?"
If the American version of Torchwood even makes it onto television, and that's a big if, I'm willing to bet that Jack's sexuality will be the least of the problems with it.
Only somebody obsessed with the subject would even bother.
I imagine you've done so, obviously.
This is exactly my perspective.
There are many people I know in real life who can go for a whole day without talking about their sexual preferences, or who they've slept with... I'm sure Jack Harkness could manage it for an hour !!
Whilst I agree with you on the issue of a simple mention of 'she' by Sky, I have to disagree on the implication that it is only socially unacceptable issues that are exaggerated by critical viewers. There is a time and a place for everything yes, but Jack's sexual references are certainly not blink-and-you-miss-it moments and sometimes in a story less is more.
I am sure that almost everyone would be either uncomfortable, unhappy or complaining if Matt Smith's Doctor turns out to be a lager swilling, overtly heterosexual lothario; bedding Amy for starters and then going back in time to work his way through the rest of his female (or male, for that matter) companions to see what he's been missing all these years...
D
Fair point!
I would be more interested if they decided to do a series based on what happened to the "lost" Torchwood 4. That way they could set whatever tone they wanted without losing the feel of the UK Torchwood.
Your not getting what I'm trying to say, when I talk about the so called "references" of his sexuality....I'm talking about his flirty nature. Right from the moment go, he is introduced to us as very flirty man...one that flirts with anything basically. To take that away, would be dismissing the character....a handsome man or a beautiful women, or even a beautiful fish be in the same room as Jack, and him not comment....is just weird!
And i didn't say that only "socially unacceptable issues" get exaggerated, I said it is one of those things that does, and stuff that I include in that is the so called romance we have seen in New Who and the family stuff /issues too....none of them actually take up much screen time as people think it does.
And your example just proves how exaggerated things are....you say that everyone would have some problem with the Doctor turning into a hetrosexual lothario, and bedding Amy as well as other companions....well not even Jack has done that, on screen at least...heck when there was a sex mad alien on the loose in TW, Jack still wasn't involved in any "action"....all we have ever got from him is all talk, and a few snogs....we have seen Owen having more sex than Jack! Why the hell else do you think that small minority of people on Live Journal went on about calling RTD a homophobic (makes a change though) because he never dared to show a sex scene with Ianto and Jack, and then killed Ianto off????
The Doctor starting to bed people will be out of character, as we haven't seen him do so, and he neverly overtly talks about his sex life (hence why some people find the queen bess thing a bit "huh??")....but Cpt Jack does, because that is his larger than life, confident flirty self. He isn't talking about his sex life so people know he is omnisexaul, he does because he is a flirt and a show-off, I mean for goodness sake, he even started to tell his Tula ship about his conquest with his two prisnor guards....so if he can tell a machine that, why is he gonna keep his mouth shut in front of people he actually does fancy??? Like I said earlier on, if he had been a quiet and reserved omnisexual, they could go either way with whoever the writers wanted him to fall in love with, without the need for him to mention the opposite/same sex....but when that is part of his flirty nature....why not???
IMO the only show that worked better on US tv was QAF and that was on HBO (who like taking risks) TW will just be a sci-fi version of 24 on Fox.
I was suprised that TW:USA is being developed by
Fox, given they already have a similar "team investigates
weird phenomena show" (Fringe). I thought ABC (need
a "Lost" replacement?) or NBC (replace "Heroes") would
have been better bets.