The 4 is a four year old phone. Which four year old android phones will be getting updates and features from kit kat?
That's what Stuart is saying - all* android phones do, because its released as an app not a software update.
e.g. the Hangouts app, which is the equivalent of what is baked into iOS, was last updated 8 May 2014, and is available on all Android phones running 2.3 or higher.
*by all I guess we have to exclude the < 1% of handsets still running Froyo, wherever they are....
While it doesn't go back to the earliest Android devices, the separation of the core apps (Gmail, Maps, Calendar etc) all means that people on pretty old Android devices that haven't got, and won't get, any more OS updates, will still be able to get the new features in those apps - along with the new look for Google apps.
OS updates obviously have many benefits, such as the layout of the UI, improved support for hardware (e.g. improved Bluetooth drivers) and maybe better security, but the core OS on an older Android phone still works today - and the user mostly cares about the apps.
On iOS, you wait until you get a new update to get all the new apps and features, as well as the usual OS updates and improvements.
That works, and obviously when Apple rolls out an update, everyone gets it more or less at the same time. It clearly has that advantage, but then the same can be said for the Google Nexus devices and Play Edition devices, where Google is now in a fairly similar position as Apple by having some control of both hardware and software.
It's easy to look back and see how awful it was for Android with updates, but that's changing and now every manufacturer realises it needs to keep supporting devices for longer than before. If they don't, it doesn't necessarily mean people buy a new device - but rather will buy their next phone from someone else.
HTC and Motorola both got stung partly due to an awful reputation for support, and both have worked hard to reverse that. Motorola obviously more so than anyone else, when it was bought by Google. Lenovo has suggested it will continue the timely updates as it's a selling point.
No idea. But every iPhone owner of a phone from the 4s upward could, should they decide to upgrade, be on iOS 8.
Apple have a habit of disabling features on older handsets. Android has a habit of just not bothering to offer updates to older handsets.
Neither OS is perfect. And neither ever will be.
And Nexus owners are on a 2 year upgrade plan too .......
but you are correct - neither OS is perfect otherwise we wouldnt get free upgrades at all
some of you young'uns just wont remember a time back where when you bought something that was it - you never got any software updates let alone free ones
Swingball and Monopoly didnt even have flashable firmware
That's what Stuart is saying - all* android phones do, because its released as an app not a software update.
e.g. the Hangouts app, which is the equivalent of what is baked into iOS, was last updated 8 May 2014, and is available on all Android phones running 2.3 or higher.
*by all I guess we have to exclude the < 1% of handsets still running Froyo, wherever they are....
Don't forget all those google apps are all there on iOS too. They really shouldn't be considered anything to do with Android.
That's what Stuart is saying - all* android phones do, because its released as an app not a software update.
e.g. the Hangouts app, which is the equivalent of what is baked into iOS, was last updated 8 May 2014, and is available on all Android phones running 2.3 or higher.
*by all I guess we have to exclude the < 1% of handsets still running Froyo, wherever they are....
Surely hangouts isn't an example. That is available on the iphone.
Don't forget all those google apps are all there on iOS too. They really shouldn't be considered anything to do with Android.
No, apps like Google Keyboard are not as of yet available on iOS. Plus the Android versions have different UI layouts and in some cases, more features. They are as much a part of Android as they are separate apps.
Apple does not provide software services outside of iOS so there isn't really a comparison.
Don't forget all those google apps are all there on iOS too. They really shouldn't be considered anything to do with Android.
Crikey - I didnt realise "Google Keyboard" was available on iOS - or
Google Voice Search
Google Camera
Google Sound Search
Google Goggles
Android Device
Google Now Launcher
Google Maps Engine
Google Gesture
Google Admin
Google Hangouts (*might be on iOS it seems)
Google Calendar
Google Keep
etc etc .....
iOS gets some of the mainstream Google Apps but much of the Android functionality is now in standalone apps as well - not needed on iOS obviously but means that lots of the new features arent 'baked into' the system and so arent reliant on os updates.
not sure I follow the argument there folks. Google choose to offer some Android functionality on iOS as well. That doesn't stop it being Android functionality.
And Nexus owners are on a 2 year upgrade plan too .......
but you are correct - neither OS is perfect otherwise we wouldnt get free upgrades at all
some of you young'uns just wont remember a time back where when you bought something that was it - you never got any software updates let alone free ones
Swingball and Monopoly didnt even have flashable firmware
My first mobile phone didn't even have the ability to send SMS messages!
Surely hangouts isn't an example. That is available on the iphone.
Its still a useful example. In earlier versions of Android (and in all versions of iOS ?) the application(s) used for SMS, MMS, instant messaging, Video calling, Group messaging (and more?) would have been 'baked into' the operating system. Anyone wanting a complete overhaul of the stock messaging app would have needed the latest version of the OS. With it now being a separate app a far wider range of devices can get the stock apps. You are no longer reliant on Samsung or HTC updating your software to get updates to the stock keyboard or messaging or calendar or mail solution. Yes some of these are also available on iOS but that isnt the point. A Galaxy S3 can get many of the latest Android features simply by grabbing the apps from the Play Store.
Crikey - I didnt realise "Google Keyboard" was available on iOS - or
Google Voice Search
Google Camera
Google Sound Search
Google Goggles
Android Device
Google Now Launcher
Google Maps Engine
Google Gesture
Google Admin
Google Hangouts (*might be on iOS it seems)
Google Calendar
Google Keep
etc etc .....
iOS gets some of the mainstream Google Apps but much of the Android functionality is now in standalone apps as well - not needed on iOS obviously but means that lots of the new features arent 'baked into' the system and so arent reliant on os updates.
Actually many of those are on iOS. Just search for them and you'll see. Admittedly some of them are packaged differently. For example Google Now and Voice search are simply under a single app simply called Google.
As it happens I prefer to use the Google Apps then most of Apple's ones.
The point is google's apps aren't exclusive to Android so how can their availability prove Android isn't fragmented. The operating system consists of a heck of a lot more then these apps.
A Google phone is certainly a lot different to an AOSP Android phone, that's obvious. But people aren't wanting to buy a plain Android device - those Google apps are what makes Android what it is (in my opinion).
I also believe Google wants to try and make its take on Android more closed and controlled, just like Apple. It's just doing so very gradually.
A Google phone is certainly a lot different to an AOSP Android phone, that's obvious. But people aren't wanting to buy a plain Android device - those Google apps are what makes Android what it is (in my opinion).
I also believe Google wants to try and make its take on Android more closed and controlled, just like Apple. It's just doing so very gradually.
Don't get me wrong. It would be handy if Apple would separately maintain more of their core apps independently of the OS. However I hardly use any of them anyway, as I switch between computers, devices and operating systems a lot and it's far more convenient to use Google's apps as they are far more widely available.
Crikey - I didnt realise "Google Keyboard" was available on iOS - or
Google Voice Search
Google Camera
Google Sound Search
Google Goggles
Android Device
Google Now Launcher
Google Maps Engine
Google Gesture
Google Admin
Google Hangouts (*might be on iOS it seems)
Google Calendar
Google Keep
etc etc .....
.
So if I understand this correctly, in order for google to solve its fragmentation problems, it has packaged most of the functionality/updates which would have gone into a single OS into 12+ apps:o
Don't get me wrong. It would be handy if Apple would separately maintain more of their core apps independently of the OS. However I hardly use any of them anyway, as I switch between computers, devices and operating systems a lot and it's far more convenient to use Google's apps as they are far more widely available.
Why do they need to. On my iPad if there is a bug issue with one of the apps, apple just give you an update to the OS. I don't see how that is worse than spreading updates across a number of apps.
So if I understand this correctly, in order for google to solve its fragmentation problems, it has packaged most of the functionality/updates which would have gone into a single OS into 12+ apps
It means that Android users don't have to wait months for updates and can get the latest features as and when they are ready.
Most of those features have to be contained in apps, as they are in iOS, Windows Phone and other platforms, so I'm not sure how else you expect users to access them.
Why do they need to. On my iPad if there is a bug issue with one of the apps, apple just give you an update to the OS. I don't see how that is worse than spreading updates across a number of apps.
I guess it depends how quick you get an OS update. If they're separate apps you can update much easier, or even roll back to an earlier version if you know what you're doing.
Why do they need to. On my iPad if there is a bug issue with one of the apps, apple just give you an update to the OS. I don't see how that is worse than spreading updates across a number of apps.
Core functiuonality in iOS is baked into the OS, the only time it can be improved is with a full OS update. On Android core functionality can be added or improved by a simple app update because Google services has been separated from the OS. These apps are updated automatically and quite frequently with no user input at all. Some of these updates add entire new functionality to the OS. iOS cannot do that.
Now, there are some Google apps on iOS but they dont work the same way as they do on Android because iOS is more restricted. They still have to function within the limited nature of iOS.
Core functiuonality in iOS is baked into the OS, the only time it can be improved is with a full OS update. On Android core functionality can be added or improved by a simple app update because Google services has been separated from the OS. These apps are updated automatically and quite frequently with no user input at all. Some of these updates add entire new functionality to the OS. iOS cannot do that.
Now, there are some Google apps on iOS but they dont work the same way as they do on Android because iOS is more restricted. They still have to function within the limited nature of iOS.
There is no requirement to have a full OS update. In the past bug updates to iOS have been tiny.
However, I do want to try and understand something. Are you saying that in order for an android phone to have the functionality expected, it has to have all the google apps listed (12+). Can you not remove these apps?
It is always worth noting that the nature of Apple means once you have IOS 8 on, there is likely 'no going back' ever allowed.
IOS 7 is aggressive in its killing of apps and browser tabs and things could get far worse and/or slower for the 512MB 4s. I'd wait a couple of months before even considering updating the iPhone 4s.
I think the philosophy is that if you can not get to use the previous OS version ever again, then you are far more likely to end up being 'thankful'.
It is always worth noting that the nature of Apple means once you have IOS 8 on, there is likely 'no going back' ever allowed.
IOS 7 is aggressive in its killing of apps and browser tabs and things could get far worse and/or slower for the 512MB 4s. I'd wait a couple of months before even considering updating the iPhone 4s.
I think the philosophy is that if you can not get to use the previous OS version ever again, then you are far more likely to end up being 'thankful'.
What do you mean by aggressive?
Customer satisfaction and take up of iOS 7 seems to imply most are very happy.
When the original iPhone came out in 2007, it was pretty slick. But look at one now and, after the updates, it's dog slow, glitchy and - well - horrible.
Of course, if it had been like that from day one, nobody would have rated the iPhone at all.
Suffice to say, it's true that if you update older models with the latest OS then it is very likely (in my own experience) that it will slow things down. Of course, that then means you start to convince yourself that it's getting on a bit and it's time to get something newer and faster.
Bear in mind I'm talking about normal day to day stuff, and the time to swap apps, transitions etc. Obviously a newer iPhone (or any new phone) will be able to run apps faster. And, yes, some developers will make apps more bloated as they get more RAM, storage and CPU power to play.
But even with that, upgrading old hardware to the latest OS (which may well miss out a lot of the 'killer features') is always risky to say the least. I've been stung many times, both iOS and Android, and yet I keep on doing it!
I was looking for clues in this latest version of iOS for hints about the new iPhone, yet to be unveiled. I'm just thinking to myself, there's nothing to really suggest a sizeable screen increase but I could be entirely wrong.
The new Xcode 6 official development tool includes the abililty for developers to test their apps on "resizable iPhone" and "resizeable iPad", which I think strongly suggests that newer (larger) screen sizes are indeed on the way.
I think the main advantage of being able to update certain stock apps on Android is that if you have an older phone you can actually decide which ones that will benefit you and update those individual ones instead of having to update everything which could slow the aging phone down (like if you were only bothered about updating the GMAIL app and was not even using Google Now then you could just update that).
Comments
That's what Stuart is saying - all* android phones do, because its released as an app not a software update.
e.g. the Hangouts app, which is the equivalent of what is baked into iOS, was last updated 8 May 2014, and is available on all Android phones running 2.3 or higher.
*by all I guess we have to exclude the < 1% of handsets still running Froyo, wherever they are....
OS updates obviously have many benefits, such as the layout of the UI, improved support for hardware (e.g. improved Bluetooth drivers) and maybe better security, but the core OS on an older Android phone still works today - and the user mostly cares about the apps.
On iOS, you wait until you get a new update to get all the new apps and features, as well as the usual OS updates and improvements.
That works, and obviously when Apple rolls out an update, everyone gets it more or less at the same time. It clearly has that advantage, but then the same can be said for the Google Nexus devices and Play Edition devices, where Google is now in a fairly similar position as Apple by having some control of both hardware and software.
It's easy to look back and see how awful it was for Android with updates, but that's changing and now every manufacturer realises it needs to keep supporting devices for longer than before. If they don't, it doesn't necessarily mean people buy a new device - but rather will buy their next phone from someone else.
HTC and Motorola both got stung partly due to an awful reputation for support, and both have worked hard to reverse that. Motorola obviously more so than anyone else, when it was bought by Google. Lenovo has suggested it will continue the timely updates as it's a selling point.
And Nexus owners are on a 2 year upgrade plan too .......
but you are correct - neither OS is perfect otherwise we wouldnt get free upgrades at all
some of you young'uns just wont remember a time back where when you bought something that was it - you never got any software updates let alone free ones
Swingball and Monopoly didnt even have flashable firmware
Don't forget all those google apps are all there on iOS too. They really shouldn't be considered anything to do with Android.
Surely hangouts isn't an example. That is available on the iphone.
No, apps like Google Keyboard are not as of yet available on iOS. Plus the Android versions have different UI layouts and in some cases, more features. They are as much a part of Android as they are separate apps.
Apple does not provide software services outside of iOS so there isn't really a comparison.
Crikey - I didnt realise "Google Keyboard" was available on iOS - or
Google Voice Search
Google Camera
Google Sound Search
Google Goggles
Android Device
Google Now Launcher
Google Maps Engine
Google Gesture
Google Admin
Google Hangouts (*might be on iOS it seems)
Google Calendar
Google Keep
etc etc .....
iOS gets some of the mainstream Google Apps but much of the Android functionality is now in standalone apps as well - not needed on iOS obviously but means that lots of the new features arent 'baked into' the system and so arent reliant on os updates.
My first mobile phone didn't even have the ability to send SMS messages!
My kerplunk didn't even have a USB port!
Its still a useful example. In earlier versions of Android (and in all versions of iOS ?) the application(s) used for SMS, MMS, instant messaging, Video calling, Group messaging (and more?) would have been 'baked into' the operating system. Anyone wanting a complete overhaul of the stock messaging app would have needed the latest version of the OS. With it now being a separate app a far wider range of devices can get the stock apps. You are no longer reliant on Samsung or HTC updating your software to get updates to the stock keyboard or messaging or calendar or mail solution. Yes some of these are also available on iOS but that isnt the point. A Galaxy S3 can get many of the latest Android features simply by grabbing the apps from the Play Store.
Actually many of those are on iOS. Just search for them and you'll see. Admittedly some of them are packaged differently. For example Google Now and Voice search are simply under a single app simply called Google.
As it happens I prefer to use the Google Apps then most of Apple's ones.
The point is google's apps aren't exclusive to Android so how can their availability prove Android isn't fragmented. The operating system consists of a heck of a lot more then these apps.
I also believe Google wants to try and make its take on Android more closed and controlled, just like Apple. It's just doing so very gradually.
Don't get me wrong. It would be handy if Apple would separately maintain more of their core apps independently of the OS. However I hardly use any of them anyway, as I switch between computers, devices and operating systems a lot and it's far more convenient to use Google's apps as they are far more widely available.
So if I understand this correctly, in order for google to solve its fragmentation problems, it has packaged most of the functionality/updates which would have gone into a single OS into 12+ apps:o
Why do they need to. On my iPad if there is a bug issue with one of the apps, apple just give you an update to the OS. I don't see how that is worse than spreading updates across a number of apps.
It means that Android users don't have to wait months for updates and can get the latest features as and when they are ready.
Most of those features have to be contained in apps, as they are in iOS, Windows Phone and other platforms, so I'm not sure how else you expect users to access them.
I guess it depends how quick you get an OS update. If they're separate apps you can update much easier, or even roll back to an earlier version if you know what you're doing.
Core functiuonality in iOS is baked into the OS, the only time it can be improved is with a full OS update. On Android core functionality can be added or improved by a simple app update because Google services has been separated from the OS. These apps are updated automatically and quite frequently with no user input at all. Some of these updates add entire new functionality to the OS. iOS cannot do that.
Now, there are some Google apps on iOS but they dont work the same way as they do on Android because iOS is more restricted. They still have to function within the limited nature of iOS.
There is no requirement to have a full OS update. In the past bug updates to iOS have been tiny.
However, I do want to try and understand something. Are you saying that in order for an android phone to have the functionality expected, it has to have all the google apps listed (12+). Can you not remove these apps?
IOS 7 is aggressive in its killing of apps and browser tabs and things could get far worse and/or slower for the 512MB 4s. I'd wait a couple of months before even considering updating the iPhone 4s.
I think the philosophy is that if you can not get to use the previous OS version ever again, then you are far more likely to end up being 'thankful'.
What do you mean by aggressive?
Customer satisfaction and take up of iOS 7 seems to imply most are very happy.
Of course, if it had been like that from day one, nobody would have rated the iPhone at all.
Suffice to say, it's true that if you update older models with the latest OS then it is very likely (in my own experience) that it will slow things down. Of course, that then means you start to convince yourself that it's getting on a bit and it's time to get something newer and faster.
Bear in mind I'm talking about normal day to day stuff, and the time to swap apps, transitions etc. Obviously a newer iPhone (or any new phone) will be able to run apps faster. And, yes, some developers will make apps more bloated as they get more RAM, storage and CPU power to play.
But even with that, upgrading old hardware to the latest OS (which may well miss out a lot of the 'killer features') is always risky to say the least. I've been stung many times, both iOS and Android, and yet I keep on doing it!
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