I liked this episode. The Doctor's new character is further established when he notices things that others (Amy) don't. The scene about the little girl crying is quite Sherlock-esque. You can tell from Amy's "solution" that she's a character who's not going to sit back and enjoy the ride and just accept everything the Doctor says. She has the gumption to think for herself and even attempts to "protect" the Doctor. This, rightly, angers the Doctor and by this anger demonstrates his other-ness (is that even a word?) and superiority. Amy's set to be an interesting and challenging companion for the Doctor.
I seem to recall quite a few people who posted in that thread thought the series lacked energy and pace. Perhaps I'm misremembering and it was just you and me, davey.
I have rewatched all of series 5 and 6 and haven't found any improvement. I think they are being repeated on BBC3 on Fridays at the moment, but I find I'd rather watch Nigel Slater. Imagine saying that about series 2-4! :eek:
Like I said Granny, I think opinion was quite divided, it wasn't just us two. I think that thread was the most heated one I've ever started and it lasted for absolutely weeks! :eek::D
Because she was, in the Doctor's eyes, still a child. She's effectively wearing the same outfit that she did when the Doctor met her the very first time, and it's meant to connect Amy to the wide-eyed child she was. A fulfilment of the Doctor's promise that even though she grew up, "I'll change that."
I still don't think it was in Amy's character to let herself walk around in a nightie. In fact, I like to think most people wouldn't like to be seen in their jimjams outside their own home!
I enjoyed it on first watch-a good episode- and after many rewatches it hasn't gone up or down in my estimation. As someone else said it was the first time Moffat was writing an episode that wasn't an 'event' so it was always likely to suffer a bit. I actually think it struggles with the limitations of being a single episode and shows what happens when Moffat trys to cram too many ideas into 45 minutes...something we have seen since with the likes of The Wedding of River Song and A Good Man... There is certainly a lot to admire here- the Smilers, the Queen, the whole voting to forget thing and the setting of Old England on spaceship is a great one- but none of them feel fully realised. In particular the Smilers were something that grabbed my attention in the publicity leading up to S5 but they were wasted a bit in the actual episode when they could have had 'classic villain' potential if used properly. But still. Its by no means a bad episode. Just not as good as it might have been.
It does contain one standout scene which for me is a New Who classic- the bit after the opening titles with Amy drifting outside the Tardis while her theme plays in the background was for me a wonderfully magical moment that helped cement the 'fairy tale' atmosphere of S5. A real moment of quiet beauty that managed to take the whole 'blimey I'm in space' reaction of a new companion and give that slightly tired trope a lovely spin. I don't think Moffat really followed this through though and by S6 had totally squandered the concept but that was the moment I fell in love with Amy Pond. Oh well.
I enjoyed this episode when I rewatched it. Matt's very good, and his rage against the human race is pretty chilling. There's an echo of 'The End of the World' near the end, appropriately for the second episode of a new series with a new cast and production team - that's another episode I've always felt was rather underrated. The opening sequence is wonderfully doomy - it's a bit of a shame the Smilers weren't more developed during the episode, IMO, as I think they're genuinely spooky at the start. And I really like Liz 10.
Can you imagine the cry of "deus ex machina" across the forums if he just popped out for a minute to get a convenient giant spaceship to house the population of Earth?
If we assume that there isn't a gigantic generation ship handy that the Doctor can hotwire, and that it's somehow not convenient to load everyone onto the TARDIS one-by-one and drop them off in another part of reality - then we're left with their assumption that stopping torturing the whale would result in them being thrown off. Whether or not there's another propulsion method available, the whale would still have to be incapacitated.
.
Given that the Tardis can tow a whole planet half way across the Universe, towing the spaceship if the Whale had gone off on it's hols for a bit would seem a doddle.:D
Often when the Doctor meets some hostile aliens he offers to find a new home for them as an alternative to eating/enslaving humans. I'm sure he could have found one for the humans on the ship.
Or, to go down a different route - any alternative spaceship could have been introduced earlier, eg "Oh dear, the French ship seems to be empty as the inhabitants have been munched by giant space frogs, who love fat human livers! Never mind, the frogs have all gone so we can use their ship! Allons-y!"
The allons-y is crucial as it would introduce a moment of sweet nostalgia.
I apologise to any Francophiles for the racial stereotyping.
I mean, u want fast paced, in the Pandorica Opens, we go from 19th century rural France, to WW2 Britain, to River in an outer space future prison, to starship uk, to star wars type bar, to the first planet ever, to Roman Britain!
The year is 5145 so Starship UK would have returned to Earth many centuries before so unless the Royal Collection is stored in the old Starship then it's some other Royal property.
Liz 10 does look good for being over 2000 years old though
For those talking about how the TARDIS could have towed the ship somewhere without any whales, I dont think that was the problem, the problem was that, if set loose, the whale, cos it was inside/wired into the ship, would have ripped apart the ship in order to go free. And the Doctor thought that if he stopped the torture then this would happen. Therefore, the only option really was that or stopping it from feeling the pain. Or so he thought anyway
For those talking about how the TARDIS could have towed the ship somewhere without any whales, I dont think that was the problem, the problem was that, if set loose, the whale, cos it was inside/wired into the ship, would have ripped apart the ship in order to go free. And the Doctor thought that if he stopped the torture then this would happen. Therefore, the only option really was that or stopping it from feeling the pain. Or so he thought anyway
Thank you, soviet; it now makes more sense to me.
(Though I still think he should have looked for alternatives to lobotomising the Whale; he could surely have evacuated the people on board. )
I thought this was a pretty good story. The concept, of the whale that was being tortured to ensure that it continued to take the people, and that the torture turned out to have been unnecessary and indeed counter-productive all the time, was good, and I liked the buttons people pressed to forget the truth.
I liked the look of the Smilers, though they eventually turned out to be a bit irrelevent.
My only real problem with the story was Liz 10, who I found a stupendously annoying character.
I thought this was a pretty good story. The concept, of the whale that was being tortured to ensure that it continued to take the people, and that the torture turned out to have been unnecessary and indeed counter-productive all the time, was good, and I liked the buttons people pressed to forget the truth.
I've an Irish acquaintance that insisted the whale was a metaphor for Ireland. :rolleyes:
Given that the Tardis can tow a whole planet half way across the Universe, towing the spaceship if the Whale had gone off on it's hols for a bit would seem a doddle.:D
You stole my answer Granny. I would have said this. Except when I saw the Tardis towing Earth I pressed down hard on the Forget button. I have no recollection of this traumatic event. (but good answer!)
..... "Oh dear, the French ship seems to be empty as the inhabitants have been munched by giant space frogs, who love fat human livers! Never mind, the frogs have all gone so we can use their ship! Allons-y
The allons-y is crucial as it would introduce a moment of sweet nostalgia. .
This is exquisite. Deliciously reminiscent of Tales of the Unexpected and Hitchcock. Fat delicious livers and "sweet nostalgia".
Perhaps Granny is Mark Gatiss. Or , more probably, the ghost of Vincent Price.
..... In fact, I like to think most people wouldn't like to be seen in their jimjams outside their own home!
Let me take you by the hand and lead you through the streets of [24 hour Tesco at midnight] , I'll show you something that'll make you change your mind.
Like I said yesterday, series 5 is one of the worst series for me. The Beast Below is a perfect illustration why. The story is boring for one thing, the resolution was awful for another. I just don't think there was any point to this story at all, it was a real waste of time.
I would say the only good things about this episode is them showing traveling on the way to new earth and people having the choice to forget what they have been told. It was a nice twist but I find it odd that not one in millions of people would choose to remember and do something about it.
The crack at the end was a nice touch but it didn't really mean much to me at this point. The best thing about this episode is the preview for the next episode which marks the return of the daleks, little did I know that it would be even worse than the beast below!.
DotM, Amy and Rory shot on the edge of things but still being alive in bodybags (a tesselecta metaphor). Notice River ended up in the pool. There’s Amy being kidnapped. and if Night Terrors hadn’t been switched from Ep 3 the clues for Amy being captured and turned into a wooden doll would have continued.
Some things are motifs, some thing are just coincidence. I suppose everyone draws the line in a different place.
For example, the theme of faking one's own death to escape the Silence is probably significant. Diving into a swimming pool is less likely to be.
Like I said yesterday, series 5 is one of the worst series for me. The Beast Below is a perfect illustration why. The story is boring for one thing, the resolution was awful for another. I just don't think there was any point to this story at all, it was a real waste of time.
I would say the only good things about this episode is them showing traveling on the way to new earth and people having the choice to forget what they have been told. It was a nice twist but I find it odd that not one in millions of people would choose to remember and do something about it.
The crack at the end was a nice touch but it didn't really mean much to me at this point. The best thing about this episode is the preview for the next episode which marks the return of the daleks, little did I know that it would be even worse than the beast below!.
The point of this episode was to further showcase Amy as the new companion, showing what sort of role she would play in the Doctor's adventures; not every episode has to have a point, that's why it's entertaining!
And millions did choose to remember. And were prompty eaten by the star whale. I can't believe you missed that point!
The point of this episode was to further showcase Amy as the new companion, showing what sort of role she would play in the Doctor's adventures; not every episode has to have a point, that's why it's entertaining!
And millions did choose to remember. And were prompty eaten by the star whale. I can't believe you missed that point!
Yeah, that was the satire - quite clever, really, as there was no actual threat involved. You have a free, informed and democratic choice. But we can't let you do anything that would rock the boat.
Yeah, that was the satire - quite clever, really, as there was no actual threat involved. You have a free, informed and democratic choice. But we can't let you do anything that would rock the boat.
Science fiction (or not according to the creators of Dr Who!) is a great place to explore socio-economic dynamics. This is one aspect that they could exploit more.
Science fiction (or not according to the creators of Dr Who!) is a great place to explore socio-economic dynamics. This is one aspect that they could exploit more.
Yeah, but in Doctor Who you have to put monsters in, and then nobody's happy!
Given that the Tardis can tow a whole planet half way across the Universe, towing the spaceship if the Whale had gone off on it's hols for a bit would seem a doddle.:D
The crack erased the TARDIS's ability to tow things. Or at least, that's what I tell myself. I'd like to forget about it towing the Earth back to its parking space, if I could.
The crack erased the TARDIS's ability to tow things. Or at least, that's what I tell myself. I'd like to forget about it towing the Earth back to its parking space, if I could.
The point of this episode was to further showcase Amy as the new companion, showing what sort of role she would play in the Doctor's adventures; not every episode has to have a point, that's why it's entertaining!
And millions did choose to remember. And were prompty eaten by the star whale. I can't believe you missed that point!
Apologies, haven't saw the episode in a while. I don't tend to watch episodes that I don't like.
Comments
Ooh ....and me too, it would appear.
it did have one or two slight flaws as I recall. But I liked the Forget button business.
Like I said Granny, I think opinion was quite divided, it wasn't just us two. I think that thread was the most heated one I've ever started and it lasted for absolutely weeks! :eek::D
I still don't think it was in Amy's character to let herself walk around in a nightie. In fact, I like to think most people wouldn't like to be seen in their jimjams outside their own home!
It does contain one standout scene which for me is a New Who classic- the bit after the opening titles with Amy drifting outside the Tardis while her theme plays in the background was for me a wonderfully magical moment that helped cement the 'fairy tale' atmosphere of S5. A real moment of quiet beauty that managed to take the whole 'blimey I'm in space' reaction of a new companion and give that slightly tired trope a lovely spin. I don't think Moffat really followed this through though and by S6 had totally squandered the concept but that was the moment I fell in love with Amy Pond. Oh well.
Given that the Tardis can tow a whole planet half way across the Universe, towing the spaceship if the Whale had gone off on it's hols for a bit would seem a doddle.:D
Often when the Doctor meets some hostile aliens he offers to find a new home for them as an alternative to eating/enslaving humans. I'm sure he could have found one for the humans on the ship.
Or, to go down a different route - any alternative spaceship could have been introduced earlier, eg "Oh dear, the French ship seems to be empty as the inhabitants have been munched by giant space frogs, who love fat human livers! Never mind, the frogs have all gone so we can use their ship! Allons-y!"
The allons-y is crucial as it would introduce a moment of sweet nostalgia.
I apologise to any Francophiles for the racial stereotyping.
The year is 5145 so Starship UK would have returned to Earth many centuries before so unless the Royal Collection is stored in the old Starship then it's some other Royal property.
Liz 10 does look good for being over 2000 years old though
Thank you, soviet; it now makes more sense to me.
(Though I still think he should have looked for alternatives to lobotomising the Whale; he could surely have evacuated the people on board. )
I liked the look of the Smilers, though they eventually turned out to be a bit irrelevent.
My only real problem with the story was Liz 10, who I found a stupendously annoying character.
I've an Irish acquaintance that insisted the whale was a metaphor for Ireland. :rolleyes:
This is exquisite. Deliciously reminiscent of Tales of the Unexpected and Hitchcock. Fat delicious livers and "sweet nostalgia".
Perhaps Granny is Mark Gatiss. Or , more probably, the ghost of Vincent Price.
Let me take you by the hand and lead you through the streets of [24 hour Tesco at midnight] , I'll show you something that'll make you change your mind.
(with apologies to Ralph McTell).
I would say the only good things about this episode is them showing traveling on the way to new earth and people having the choice to forget what they have been told. It was a nice twist but I find it odd that not one in millions of people would choose to remember and do something about it.
The crack at the end was a nice touch but it didn't really mean much to me at this point. The best thing about this episode is the preview for the next episode which marks the return of the daleks, little did I know that it would be even worse than the beast below!.
Some things are motifs, some thing are just coincidence. I suppose everyone draws the line in a different place.
For example, the theme of faking one's own death to escape the Silence is probably significant. Diving into a swimming pool is less likely to be.
The point of this episode was to further showcase Amy as the new companion, showing what sort of role she would play in the Doctor's adventures; not every episode has to have a point, that's why it's entertaining!
And millions did choose to remember. And were prompty eaten by the star whale. I can't believe you missed that point!
I'd be much richer if I were.
And I'd have worked with David Tennant and Benedict Cumberbatch.
*spends rest of day wishing I were Mark Gatiss*
Yeah, that was the satire - quite clever, really, as there was no actual threat involved. You have a free, informed and democratic choice. But we can't let you do anything that would rock the boat.
Science fiction (or not according to the creators of Dr Who!) is a great place to explore socio-economic dynamics. This is one aspect that they could exploit more.
Yeah, but in Doctor Who you have to put monsters in, and then nobody's happy!
Some might say that the mechanics of certain socio-economic structures ARE the monsters. Or is that too Jon Pertwee.
The crack erased the TARDIS's ability to tow things. Or at least, that's what I tell myself. I'd like to forget about it towing the Earth back to its parking space, if I could.
Needs 6 people...
Apologies, haven't saw the episode in a while. I don't tend to watch episodes that I don't like.