Mrs Patmore is a selfish old cow. Daisy should be allowed to soar and do something with her life. No way would Lord Grantham have just accepted he had an illegitmate grand daughter, nor would a "coward" have had a memorial plaque erected in the village. This has been watchable but too much looking at things with 21st century eyes than the way they would have at the time.
Daisy can go as far as I'm concerned - except that Mrs Patmore loves her so I will have to put up with her in series 6. Daisy, I know you struggle to express your feelings but just say THANK YOU to comeone. Just once. Please.
So after all that fussing around about Edith's baby and all the plans and tricks to keep it secret from Papa.. He finds out and says "Mmm so it's hers... Oh right cool" lol
That scene made me smile.
There was still outrage at unmarried mothers in the '60s, so to accept it that calmly was totally unbelievable but gave the final episode a 'fluffy' moment.
There was still outrage at unmarried mothers in the '60s, so to accept it that calmly was totally unbelievable but gave the final episode a 'fluffy' moment.
I agree it seems unlikely that in the 20s Robert would appear so accepting of Edith's situation. There will probably be a twist. Whilst Robert now knows, a story for the outside world will have to be invented. Edith had suggested adopting Marigold as her God-daughter. Possibly some form of adoption will take place to protect not only Edith but even more so Marigold. Official adoption only came into law in 1926.
So everyone in the immediate family now knows who Marigold is, except Mary. She won't like that when she does eventually find out.
Good last episode, although I really hope the Anna/Bates storyline isn't allowed dominate the Christmas episode. The whole rape/murder story was a major error, in my view and I would really like to see it brought to a swift end.
I actually went off Tom again last night when Mary made a nasty remark about Edith and he sniggered along with it. It looked very two faced.
Loved it, especially Robert's realisation at the end about Marigold and him being ok with it. He also realised what a prat he was to Cora so good for him.
I found it hard to invest in Rose's marriage because it all happened so quickly and I must be the only one to think that Atticus had a sexual history with that woman even if he turned her down at the stag do. I'm not entirely sure about him, but I do like his mother!!
Edith and Tom - I SO want it to happen! Likewise Molesley and Baxter.
Anna, Bates and Daisy can all swan off and I would not miss them. I hope they don't ruin the Christmas special with more dreary Bates stuff.
But great series I thought, so much better than last years. Will miss it of a Sunday evenin'!!
So which storylines are left open for Christmas and beyond?
- Anna (obviously)
- Violet and Prince Kuragin and the princess. Wonder if his indecent proposal had anything to do with the fact he's penniless and Violet isn't?
- Spratt's revenge.
- Will Isobel fight for Dickie Merton? Well, she never shirks a challenge and the fact we're hearing him referred to as "Dickie" not "Lord Merton" could be a hint. Will one widow find happiness in a second marriage?
- Molesley and Baxter. Please.
- Mary's love life - or non-love life. It was interesting to not the main Mary/Matthew love theme playing during her conversation with Carson, indicating that was the sort of love she should bee looking for.
- Marigold. Plenty of people to object to an illegitimate child in the nursery, or to shun Edith in society.
- the Sinderbys. They could be programme in themselves. So much going on - and Lord S only stayed silent. He didn't make conciliatory moves at all. Brancaster could be fun.
- Mabel and Swiss Tony's wedding. If it's not important, why is it taking place in December? Hmm.
- Thomas. Good to see him take Baxter's advice and put his scheming skills to better use. But will be be as nice at Brancaster?
- Tom's departure. Just as he's found a niche and come to terms with Sybil's death, he'll leave. Or will he?
And most importantly, will Sybbie let Donk win at snakes and ladders? Come on, Sybbie - you're more emotionally mature than he is. Be the bigger person!
Edith and Marigold seems settled too easily when ther'e more drama to be had.
Might there still be a custody battle with the Drewes?
I doubt it. The Drewes would have had no legal claim to Marigold and in the 1920s tenants would not have taken the Lord and Lady of the manor to court.
- Denker. Bad behaviour by the servants is always worth watching.
- Andy. We need him to stay. One thing i love about Downton is the way a young actor somehow fits right in and makes his/her mark despite all the heavyweights.
- the ladies. Susan excepted (:o), how amazing are all the ladies? Lady Sinderby )the wonderful Penny Downie took charge and
- all the Sinderbys. Even Lord S showed some signs of (gruff) humanity. And what a voice.
- Violet encouraging Isobel not to give up dear Lord Merton. A true friend (just as she was when Matthew died).
- Mrs Patmore. Daisy doesn't deserve you. She truly doesn't
- Baxter and Molesley. If Molesley doesn't propose, I'll do it for him.
- Tom - suddenly the most popular man in Downton. Loved the scenes between him and Mary, including the fact they acknowledged the past.
- Rose and Atticus. I liked the fact they were so sure. So much shillyshallying in Downton but these two know their own minds. I also think he looked very fetching in a dressing gown.
- Robert acknowledging that his house is full of secrets and that he's always the last to know.:) And selling the painting - that resolved the situation nicely.
- Carson being even less aware of what's going on that Robert. He was outfoxed by a temporary footman.
- The new, nice Thomas. Although he's not so nice to people who cross him. Good!
- Anna being hauled away in full view of everyone. Sad and undeserving maybe, but very effective. I love the inspector putting down Mary.
- Is Bates going to confess to save Anna? His advice to say nothing didn't help her much did it?
- In fact Mary was fab tonight. Flinty, superior but caring of Rose, loving with Tom and showing a little vulnerability with one of the few people she trusts.
- Mabel and Tony popping in. To say goodbye for ever - or is that December wedding date significant?? Hmm.
- Shrimpie getting the better of his wife for the first time in, I expect, 30 years.
- Spratt and the suitcase. Do you think he'll want revenge?
- All nicely set up for the grouse at Brancaster and Christmas back at Downton!
I agree with all of this, I don't get how so many people pick such large holes in the story, and dislike the characters especially Lady Mary. She is my favourite along with Tom. Looking forward to the Christmas special (and series six)
I doubt it. The Drewes would have had no legal claim to Marigold and in the 1920s tenants would not have taken the Lord and Lady of the manor to court.
Yes, the storyline's moved on. The next step is the secret coming out.
In other news, don't forget the Text Santa sketch on December 19 to keep us going till Christmas Day.
Mr Selfridge himself (Jeremy Piven) will also be making an appearance, it seems. Sounds like it could be a riot!
No one cares…. no one give a rats ass what happened to him. !!!! How can they build a storyline that runs for the entire length of the series culminating in the big arrest, when we as an audience could not care less what happened to Greene, a bit part character who appeared how many times….... twice…. was a total bastard …. attacked Anna and eventually fell under a bus !!! Bates of course is intimating he will take the blame, but it won't come to that.
Had he been shot at least it would explain why the police were so adamantly trying to solve it. It would be a definite murder. Lets say Anna was there….. so what…… how can anyone prove she did him any harm… they can't. Its all so ridiculous. We all know by the end of the Christmas special, all will be well… oh it will be milked to the point of death for angst, tears and drama but in the end she will be cleared.
Not so sure now that Isabelle won't marry Lord Merton, she may well try to get his sons to accept her !
Its also clear that Branson is going no where…. oh… like Anna's storyline it will all be dragged out to the final five minutes, with emotion, tears, and all manner of angst, but we all know he will stay in the end, and it would not surprise me ONE bit if he ends up with Edith.
There were a few hints tonight….. at the restaurant table, she acknowledged how kind he was to think of her memories at that restaurant, then told him on the way back to the house that Mary would not be the only one to miss him, she would too. I can see an understanding developing over the Christmas special between these two… they have a lot in common behind it all, never feeling they fit in, losing a partner, left with a child.
I think until the end of the 1920's it was illegal for a widower to marry his wife's sister - so I have a feeling that neither Mary nor Edith are options for Tom.
I agree with all of this, I don't get how so many people pick such large holes in the story, and dislike the characters especially Lady Mary. She is my favourite along with Tom. Looking forward to the Christmas special (and series six)
I thought Mary was amazing in ep8. And Tom was happy in this episode - really stepping up as a brother to the sisters and Rose, and fitting in perfectly with all the family and friends.
I so agree on taking Downton too seriously. It is a bit of fluff really, with some sad and difficult stories alongside the fun and games. It's escapism and I'll miss it a lot next Sunday.
I think about the logistics. A scene filmed at Basildon Park and two characters are shipped in for a short scene in which they announce their engagement.
The other "guest" character in that scene was Lady Manville (Sarah Crowden) who appeared way back in s3 as a dinner party guest. her role was to show the casual prejudice against Jews - which also allowed the Granthams to show their liberalism. Otherwise all the scenes were very tightly packed.
My only concern if it is Mabel wot dunnit is that it puts Swiss Tony back on the market:o.
Perhaps its at Tony Gillingham's wedding that Mary meets Matthew Goode? And perhaps Charles will be there having come back from Poland?
Of course Atticus would have a past - (Lady Mary an exception) nicely brought up women did not sleep with men before marriage and men were encouraged to sew their wild oats.
Also very kind of Lord G to have the plaque put up on the wall for Mrs Patmore's nephew (however unlikely that would be) and how very sweet (and somewhat unlikely) to say that he would love Marigold and that he finds her enchanting - and how very ironic it would be if she becomes his favourite grandchild?
Are Rose and Atticus gone now? Their marriage seemed awfully rushed and hurried, and the stuff with Rose's mother paying prostitute to frame Atticus was a bit daft.
I think until the end of the 1920's it was illegal for a widower to marry his wife's sister - so I have a feeling that neither Mary nor Edith are options for Tom.
It was legal from 1907 (because of the snappily titled Deceased Wife's Sister's Marriage Act) but the Deceased Brother's Widow's Marriage Act wasn't passed until 1921.
Completely agree re Tony's wedding. We were robbed of vital scenes like Mrs Drewe breaking the news to Cora that Marigold is her grandchild, and of Cora's first moment meeting Marigold, yet we get a full scene with Tony and whats her name breaking the news to us about their December wedding. There is a reason for this. It must be relevant to the Christmas special.
So a "small woman" was seen arguing with Green before he met his end. Is there a chance the small woman may turn out to be Tony's fiancee. Its either that or Tony did the deed. Why else would there be any need to see them on screen. As poster stated…… we could have heard about Tony's wedding second hand via a letter or phone call. Is it notable that the wedding is taking place in London instead of the country so at the very least Mary and maybe Tom will be at it .
I agree about the scenes with Cora and Mrs Drewe, personally I think the Isis situation was a quick film and inserted into episodes, so they lost other scenes that IMO I would have rather seen, than worry about the name of a dog causing outrage.
I must have missed the Broadchurch reference after watching so many adverts waiting for something I gave up and wandered, fed up to the back teeth of everyone being a christmas one, blimey how I craved a cillet bang or a andrex advert>:(
I agree with all of this, I don't get how so many people pick such large holes in the story, and dislike the characters especially Lady Mary. She is my favourite along with Tom. Looking forward to the Christmas special (and series six)
Well it wouldn't be much of a drama if viewers didn't form strong feelings and views about the characters. Mary seems to be one of those people who really split the viewers - some really like her and others (like me) think she's quite detestable.
Likewise with Edith, some of us love her and enjoy storylines where things are working well for her, and others find her annoying. All television drama is the same - people become involved and also enjoy debating the various storylines and speculating about possible developments. It's part of the enjoyment.
I agree sometimes viewers take it very seriously. There was almost fisticuffs over the rape storyline last year on here, with some of us hating it and others defending it angrily. And I was also a bit surprised at how upset some posters were at the thought of Tom marrying Sarah Bunting.
Yes, the storyline's moved on. The next step is the secret coming out.
In other news, don't forget the Text Santa sketch on December 19 to keep us going till Christmas Day.
Mr Selfridge himself (Jeremy Piven) will also be making an appearance, it seems. Sounds like it could be a riot!
True. Although amongst those connected to the family the only ones who don't know are Mary, Tom and Isabel. I thing both Tom and Isabel would be very sympathetic (in fact I won't be surprised if Tom works it out for himself) and Mary isn't really in a position to judge - there but for the grace of God...
She'll just be annoyed that Edith had such an interesting secret, and that she herself was one of the last to know.
So someone saw Anna at Picadilly that day? So does that mean she was really there? We saw her go to Picadilly during the series and she seemed to know where Greene died. Why did this person identify her if she wasn't there?
But IF she was there, what did she do there? I think she could have been the one to whom Greene said "Why have you come". But did she also kill him? I doubt it. There must be another explanation.
On the other hand she was concerned about Bates being the murderer all the time. If she was there, she must know who did it!
This doesn't make any sense, sorry.
And why would he say that? Wouldn't he have said "Why are you here"? Or "What are you doing here"? Or "Why aren't you at Downton?"
Why have you come, sounds like he meant a specific place.
Comments
Ho Ho No.
lol
Dont you just love Molesley and Baxter?
Mrs Patmore is a selfish old cow. Daisy should be allowed to soar and do something with her life. No way would Lord Grantham have just accepted he had an illegitmate grand daughter, nor would a "coward" have had a memorial plaque erected in the village. This has been watchable but too much looking at things with 21st century eyes than the way they would have at the time.
Daisy can go as far as I'm concerned - except that Mrs Patmore loves her so I will have to put up with her in series 6. Daisy, I know you struggle to express your feelings but just say THANK YOU to comeone. Just once. Please.
Yes! One step closer to a proposal - I hope.
That scene made me smile.
There was still outrage at unmarried mothers in the '60s, so to accept it that calmly was totally unbelievable but gave the final episode a 'fluffy' moment.
I agree it seems unlikely that in the 20s Robert would appear so accepting of Edith's situation. There will probably be a twist. Whilst Robert now knows, a story for the outside world will have to be invented. Edith had suggested adopting Marigold as her God-daughter. Possibly some form of adoption will take place to protect not only Edith but even more so Marigold. Official adoption only came into law in 1926.
Good last episode, although I really hope the Anna/Bates storyline isn't allowed dominate the Christmas episode. The whole rape/murder story was a major error, in my view and I would really like to see it brought to a swift end.
I actually went off Tom again last night when Mary made a nasty remark about Edith and he sniggered along with it. It looked very two faced.
Might there still be a custody battle with the Drewes?
I found it hard to invest in Rose's marriage because it all happened so quickly and I must be the only one to think that Atticus had a sexual history with that woman even if he turned her down at the stag do. I'm not entirely sure about him, but I do like his mother!!
Edith and Tom - I SO want it to happen! Likewise Molesley and Baxter.
Anna, Bates and Daisy can all swan off and I would not miss them. I hope they don't ruin the Christmas special with more dreary Bates stuff.
But great series I thought, so much better than last years. Will miss it of a Sunday evenin'!!
- Anna (obviously)
- Violet and Prince Kuragin and the princess. Wonder if his indecent proposal had anything to do with the fact he's penniless and Violet isn't?
- Spratt's revenge.
- Will Isobel fight for Dickie Merton? Well, she never shirks a challenge and the fact we're hearing him referred to as "Dickie" not "Lord Merton" could be a hint. Will one widow find happiness in a second marriage?
- Molesley and Baxter. Please.
- Mary's love life - or non-love life. It was interesting to not the main Mary/Matthew love theme playing during her conversation with Carson, indicating that was the sort of love she should bee looking for.
- Marigold. Plenty of people to object to an illegitimate child in the nursery, or to shun Edith in society.
- the Sinderbys. They could be programme in themselves. So much going on - and Lord S only stayed silent. He didn't make conciliatory moves at all. Brancaster could be fun.
- Mabel and Swiss Tony's wedding. If it's not important, why is it taking place in December? Hmm.
- Thomas. Good to see him take Baxter's advice and put his scheming skills to better use. But will be be as nice at Brancaster?
- Tom's departure. Just as he's found a niche and come to terms with Sybil's death, he'll leave. Or will he?
And most importantly, will Sybbie let Donk win at snakes and ladders? Come on, Sybbie - you're more emotionally mature than he is. Be the bigger person!
I doubt it. The Drewes would have had no legal claim to Marigold and in the 1920s tenants would not have taken the Lord and Lady of the manor to court.
Yes, the storyline's moved on. The next step is the secret coming out.
In other news, don't forget the Text Santa sketch on December 19 to keep us going till Christmas Day.
Mr Selfridge himself (Jeremy Piven) will also be making an appearance, it seems. Sounds like it could be a riot!
I think until the end of the 1920's it was illegal for a widower to marry his wife's sister - so I have a feeling that neither Mary nor Edith are options for Tom.
I thought Mary was amazing in ep8. And Tom was happy in this episode - really stepping up as a brother to the sisters and Rose, and fitting in perfectly with all the family and friends.
I so agree on taking Downton too seriously. It is a bit of fluff really, with some sad and difficult stories alongside the fun and games. It's escapism and I'll miss it a lot next Sunday.
Perhaps its at Tony Gillingham's wedding that Mary meets Matthew Goode? And perhaps Charles will be there having come back from Poland?
Of course Atticus would have a past - (Lady Mary an exception) nicely brought up women did not sleep with men before marriage and men were encouraged to sew their wild oats.
Also very kind of Lord G to have the plaque put up on the wall for Mrs Patmore's nephew (however unlikely that would be) and how very sweet (and somewhat unlikely) to say that he would love Marigold and that he finds her enchanting - and how very ironic it would be if she becomes his favourite grandchild?
It was legal from 1907 (because of the snappily titled Deceased Wife's Sister's Marriage Act) but the Deceased Brother's Widow's Marriage Act wasn't passed until 1921.
I agree about the scenes with Cora and Mrs Drewe, personally I think the Isis situation was a quick film and inserted into episodes, so they lost other scenes that IMO I would have rather seen, than worry about the name of a dog causing outrage.
I must have missed the Broadchurch reference after watching so many adverts waiting for something I gave up and wandered, fed up to the back teeth of everyone being a christmas one, blimey how I craved a cillet bang or a andrex advert>:(
Overall I enjoyed the episode.
Well it wouldn't be much of a drama if viewers didn't form strong feelings and views about the characters. Mary seems to be one of those people who really split the viewers - some really like her and others (like me) think she's quite detestable.
Likewise with Edith, some of us love her and enjoy storylines where things are working well for her, and others find her annoying. All television drama is the same - people become involved and also enjoy debating the various storylines and speculating about possible developments. It's part of the enjoyment.
I agree sometimes viewers take it very seriously. There was almost fisticuffs over the rape storyline last year on here, with some of us hating it and others defending it angrily. And I was also a bit surprised at how upset some posters were at the thought of Tom marrying Sarah Bunting.
True. Although amongst those connected to the family the only ones who don't know are Mary, Tom and Isabel. I thing both Tom and Isabel would be very sympathetic (in fact I won't be surprised if Tom works it out for himself) and Mary isn't really in a position to judge - there but for the grace of God...
She'll just be annoyed that Edith had such an interesting secret, and that she herself was one of the last to know.
I have no idea. is it his name?
And why would he say that? Wouldn't he have said "Why are you here"? Or "What are you doing here"? Or "Why aren't you at Downton?"
Why have you come, sounds like he meant a specific place.