Why bad Clara? For lying to her b/f who doesn't want her to travel anymore, even though she loves doing it?
Her clingy insecure boyfriend, instead of taking an interest in her travels with the Doctor (who she has known longer than him) told her, very plainly if she ever lied to him it would be over and has, since he knew about her "double life", acted like a toddler throwing his toys out the pram whenever the Doctor is mentioned and tried to stop her traveling by how he behaves and what he says to her.
Danny seems to me to be very controlling, using classic passive aggressive techniques to get his own way.
If he loved her, he would be happy to let her travel with the Doctor rather than his way or the highway.
The usual crap about controlling etc when he isn't
An now you are happy for people to repeatedly lie to others?
Clara chooses Danny in the end. Unless it all changes. Unlike Amy and Rory they will actually raise their children and grandchildren. They will witness all their firsts, nag them to eat vegetables and do homework. Teach them how to ride a bike and drive a car. Danny can offer Clara things 12 can't . 12 should know that and prepare himself to let her go. Believe he loves her enough to do that.
Why bad Clara? For lying to her b/f who doesn't want her to travel anymore, even though she loves doing it?
Her clingy insecure boyfriend, instead of taking an interest in her travels with the Doctor (who she has known longer than him) told her, very plainly if she ever lied to him it would be over and has, since he knew about her "double life", acted like a toddler throwing his toys out the pram whenever the Doctor is mentioned and tried to stop her traveling by how he behaves and what he says to her.
Danny seems to me to be very controlling, using classic passive aggressive techniques to get his own way.
If he loved her, he would be happy to let her travel with the Doctor rather than his way or the highway.
I think the exact opposite. I think he's quite reasonable and caring, he wants her to be happy and continue travelling with the Doctor if she wants to, but doesn't like being lied to. Fair enough, surely? When he found out about her double life was he supposed to say 'oh that's okay dear, don't worry, I'll be your part time boyfriend when you get back from seeing the other bloke'? She's the control freak, she wants both of them, at the same time, on her own terms, and is prepared to lie to both of them, and when one of them says anything she'll throw a strop at him. I never thought much of her but I really don't like her now.
I think the exact opposite. I think he's quite reasonable and caring, he wants her to be happy and continue travelling with the Doctor if she wants to, but doesn't like being lied to. Fair enough, surely? When he found out about her double life was he supposed to say 'oh that's okay dear, don't worry, I'll be your part time boyfriend when you get back from seeing the other bloke'? She's the control freak, she wants both of them, at the same time, on her own terms, and is prepared to lie to both of them, and when one of them says anything she'll throw a strop at him. I never thought much of her but I really don't like her now.
I don't think she's that selfish, at least not deliberately, so probably deserves a little bit of compassion. Or at least pity. What she's doing is undoubtedly wrong, and she knows fine it is - she's effectively back in the situation she was in before The Caretaker, and she knows how well that works. But she's not being malicious - she doesn't want to hurt anyone, but can't say no.
It's a bit of an answer to those that couldn't understand how, say, Rory and Amy, could actively choose not to have all of time and space to travel through forever. Because this is what you end up having to choose between. Clara wants it all, and who could blame her, really?
For the same reason alcoholics tell their families that they're done with the booze. Forever. For real this time. (glug, glug) Because they've realised that their behaviour is dangerous, and they'd rather hide it than confront the damage it causes.
What I like about this move is that it's completely unexpected, and yet fits into everything we know about Clara. She got into this because of her desperate, suppressed desire to travel to amazing places, and she has a tendency to lie under pressure to protect herself. It makes perfect sense that this is where it would end up, and the Doctor should have seen this.
It makes sense within the overall arc too, the addiction/affair metaphor is clear in retrospect - Clara and Danny were having a 'normal' dating life, apart from her dirty little habit that she was engaged in that she kept from him. Eventually she couldn't cover it up any longer and was forced to come clean, where Danny forgave her but warned her that she needs to be honest in the future or he wouldn't be able to trust her.
After one bad trip that shook her so much she swore off it forever, she went for 'one last hit', told Danny that she was done, but then couldn't stay off it.
Your main commentary I think is fairly sound but the bit I've emboldened strikes me as odd: 'should have seen this'? Why should he be bothered? I think he's very disinterested in his companion's lives outside of the TARDIS and doesn't really want to be bothered with their domestic affairs. A case in point is in the opening TARDIS scene in Flatline where Clara begins to talk about Danny and the Doctor confesses to having stopped listening.
Think Danny and Clara need to sit down and talk. She lied to him thats not ok. Keeping secrets and lying is not good when relationships are suppose to be based on trust. Clara is having an emotional if not physical affair with 12. Making it worse then if she was just sleeping around. Which is bad if it is a man or a woman doing it. Hope it is all leading to somthing in the last few episodes.
So Clara was chosen by Missy. Is that Missy's only infuence? The act of choosing Clara? Perhaps by giving her the TARDIS's telephone number?
Or is she influencing Clara in other ways too? Maybe she's somehow given Clara an addiction to adventuring with the Doctor? To keep them together.
Or is Clara doing it all on her own and Missy is fooling herself that she's had any effect on Clara (since, perhaps, giving Clara the telephone number)?
Does the Doctor know about this? And is Danny the Doctor's ploy to break Missy's influence?
Does the Doctor know about this? And is Danny the Doctor's ploy to break Missy's influence?
So he disapproves of Danny so she will go off with him I see what you mean as it's like when a parent may disapproves of someone and often the son/daughter will take up with them just because of that.
My friend is like that her Mum hates her BF and she had admitted to me if her Mum didn't moan and tell her to get rid of him so much she would have probably have gotten rid of him years ago
Maybe he even arranged that Danny and Clara met? He might have "had a word" with the headmaster (Ian) for both to get jobs. He might have looked into Clara's future and knows that she should eventually leave and "go off into the sunset" with Danny, but that somebody (Missy) wants to change that and needs to keep the Doctor and Clara together. All for some motivation we know nothing about, as yet.
For the same reason alcoholics tell their families that they're done with the booze. Forever. For real this time. (glug, glug) Because they've realised that their behaviour is dangerous, and they'd rather hide it than confront the damage it causes.
What I like about this move is that it's completely unexpected, and yet fits into everything we know about Clara. She got into this because of her desperate, suppressed desire to travel to amazing places, and she has a tendency to lie under pressure to protect herself. It makes perfect sense that this is where it would end up, and the Doctor should have seen this.
It makes sense within the overall arc too, the addiction/affair metaphor is clear in retrospect - Clara and Danny were having a 'normal' dating life, apart from her dirty little habit that she was engaged in that she kept from him. Eventually she couldn't cover it up any longer and was forced to come clean, where Danny forgave her but warned her that she needs to be honest in the future or he wouldn't be able to trust her.
After one bad trip that shook her so much she swore off it forever, she went for 'one last hit', told Danny that she was done, but then couldn't stay off it.
I'm not convinced Clara's apparent addiction to adventuring with the Doctor is actually in character with what we've seen of Clara previously. Remember her reluctance to come with the Doctor at first? And then, once she understood what was being offered, bargaining for control?
"Come back tomorrow and we'll see. I'm not promising."
(I might not have the exact quote, but it was something like that).
What if Missy is influencing Clara in some way to do this? And without that, Clara would have gone off with Danny, never to see the Doctor again?
I'm not convinced Clara's apparent addiction to adventuring with the Doctor is actually in character with what we've seen of Clara previously. Remember her reluctance to come with the Doctor at first? And then, once she understood what was being offered, bargaining for control?
"Come back tomorrow and we'll see. I'm not promising."
(I might not have the exact quote, but it was something like that).
What if Missy is influencing Clara in some way to do this? And without that, Clara would have gone off with Danny, never to see the Doctor again?
Might still be connected to "her" time in the Doctor's timestream - that might have given her a new desire to explore - or a inflated sense of her own importance - or how about she got some of what should have gone into the next regeneration.
It's not the first time we've seen hints of addiction to the Doctor. I keep thinking Amy would have given Rory a hard time at times through the Doctor-less years. She was enjoying herself a little too much in Asylum of the Daleks.
(Doesn't that seem a long time ago now? Much has happened since... )
It's not the first time we've seen hints of addiction to the Doctor. I keep thinking Amy would have given Rory a hard time through the Doctor-less years. She was enjoying herself a little too much in Asylum of the Daleks.
(Doesn't that seem a long time ago now? Much has happened since... )
To be fair she would give him a hard time on the happiest most Doctor filled day of her life
Amy Fact> On the happiest day of her life she only sulked and cried 48 times
Won't take credit for this one but they have pointed out she has told the Doctor Danny is fine with them seeing each other and Danny it is over. I think this will end in tears.
Bad Clara!
Gah! I'm sick to death of hearing about Clara and Danny! No-one cares about your stupid boyfriend!
I don't think I've been so annoyed with a companion as with Clara this season. This is Doctor Who not a damn soap opera! If I wanted that crap I'd watch EastEnders!
Gah! I'm sick to death of hearing about Clara and Danny! No-one cares about your stupid boyfriend!
I don't think I've been so annoyed with a companion as with Clara this season. This is Doctor Who not a damn soap opera! If I wanted that crap I'd watch EastEnders!
People relating to other people is not a soap opera thing.
Once you go black you can never go back................... that is unless you're going back to an alien doctor that regenerates with a time traveling phone box.
Comments
An now you are happy for people to repeatedly lie to others?
Why? She's been lying to Danny since she first went out with him.
I think the exact opposite. I think he's quite reasonable and caring, he wants her to be happy and continue travelling with the Doctor if she wants to, but doesn't like being lied to. Fair enough, surely? When he found out about her double life was he supposed to say 'oh that's okay dear, don't worry, I'll be your part time boyfriend when you get back from seeing the other bloke'? She's the control freak, she wants both of them, at the same time, on her own terms, and is prepared to lie to both of them, and when one of them says anything she'll throw a strop at him. I never thought much of her but I really don't like her now.
It's a bit of an answer to those that couldn't understand how, say, Rory and Amy, could actively choose not to have all of time and space to travel through forever. Because this is what you end up having to choose between. Clara wants it all, and who could blame her, really?
I don't think it's like an affair; the Doctor is more like a father/mentor figure rather than direct competition to Danny.
Your main commentary I think is fairly sound but the bit I've emboldened strikes me as odd: 'should have seen this'? Why should he be bothered? I think he's very disinterested in his companion's lives outside of the TARDIS and doesn't really want to be bothered with their domestic affairs. A case in point is in the opening TARDIS scene in Flatline where Clara begins to talk about Danny and the Doctor confesses to having stopped listening.
Or is she influencing Clara in other ways too? Maybe she's somehow given Clara an addiction to adventuring with the Doctor? To keep them together.
Or is Clara doing it all on her own and Missy is fooling herself that she's had any effect on Clara (since, perhaps, giving Clara the telephone number)?
Does the Doctor know about this? And is Danny the Doctor's ploy to break Missy's influence?
Great, isn't it?
So he disapproves of Danny so she will go off with him I see what you mean as it's like when a parent may disapproves of someone and often the son/daughter will take up with them just because of that.
My friend is like that her Mum hates her BF and she had admitted to me if her Mum didn't moan and tell her to get rid of him so much she would have probably have gotten rid of him years ago
I'm not convinced Clara's apparent addiction to adventuring with the Doctor is actually in character with what we've seen of Clara previously. Remember her reluctance to come with the Doctor at first? And then, once she understood what was being offered, bargaining for control?
"Come back tomorrow and we'll see. I'm not promising."
(I might not have the exact quote, but it was something like that).
What if Missy is influencing Clara in some way to do this? And without that, Clara would have gone off with Danny, never to see the Doctor again?
Might still be connected to "her" time in the Doctor's timestream - that might have given her a new desire to explore - or a inflated sense of her own importance - or how about she got some of what should have gone into the next regeneration.
(Doesn't that seem a long time ago now? Much has happened since...
To be fair she would give him a hard time on the happiest most Doctor filled day of her life
Amy Fact> On the happiest day of her life she only sulked and cried 48 times
Gah! I'm sick to death of hearing about Clara and Danny! No-one cares about your stupid boyfriend!
I don't think I've been so annoyed with a companion as with Clara this season. This is Doctor Who not a damn soap opera! If I wanted that crap I'd watch EastEnders!
People relating to other people is not a soap opera thing.