I guess in those days ice dance was in many ways a matter of taste. I loved G&P's speed and fire (plus Evgeny was beautiful) and they only got better over the years.
Nowadays ice dance has become quite ugly and boring at times due to the rule changes, but I guess the judging has become more objective. I have not been overwhelmed by either the Americans or the Canadians this year, although I understand that they are the best within this new system.
I think the move toward emphasis on the more difficult elements even if you end up on your backside has been a negative move aesthetically for me...
I remember T&D's rhumba from 1994. Beyond compare, imo.
On a separate note, an ice dance team from this year portrayed a nerdy bookworm/showgirl couple which they carried over both long and short routines. The premise reminded me of a routine performed by T&D at the Professional World Championships in '95 to Simon and Garfunkel's CecIlia. Quirky, original and funny.
I think many people who blame G&P for that win in 1994 and say it was a 'fix' forget that their win was a surprise for Russia too! No one expected them to win and Russia was backing Usova & Zhulin.
I haven't watched any of this for years but reading about new rules for ice dance and heard T&D mention them on DID, I was wondering if, from an observers point of view, is there any real difference between ice dance and pairs?
They don't jump and aren't allowed the lifts that pair skaters are allowed to do.
I can't comment on the technical aspects of the skating, but with regard to transitions and timing there is no doubt in my mind that T&D were the better pair on the night.
Totally agree. T&D were (imo) deliberately marked down because a lot of peoples' noses had been put out of joint over them making so much money during their previous 10 years as professionals. Sadly figure skating is so rife with politics it can take a lot of the enjoyment out of watching it at times.
I haven't watched any of this for years but reading about new rules for ice dance and heard T&D mention them on DID, I was wondering if, from an observers point of view, is there any real difference between ice dance and pairs?
Yes, quite considerable ones, the main one being that Pairs Skating has overhead lifts as well as side by side jumps and thrown jumps. There are no jumps in Ice Dancing and the couple has to spend the majority of their routine connected (from memory, they may have changed that with the new system).
There's a reason who no other couple than T&D have achieved perfect scores. The Russian couple were really quite boring.
T&D brought the ice dance to the attention of those who wouldn't ever have dreamt of watching it. I fear now that they've gone, ice dance will sink back into obscurity. I've not even tried to look for it at this wintr olympics for instance.
Funny routine Christopher Dean was always in a class of his own as a skater, but Jayne Torvill always seemed weaker than him. In 1994 I thought she looked out of shape.
An interesting view as Jayne is usually regarded as the better technical skater of the two whereas Chris is the more creative and innovative. He would come up witht he ideas and she had the skills to make that work. Many of the skaters he works with today have to water down his choreography in a way Jayne never had to do.
There's a reason who no other couple than T&D have achieved perfect scores. The Russian couple were really quite boring.
T&D brought the ice dance to the attention of those who wouldn't ever have dreamt of watching it. I fear now that they've gone, ice dance will sink back into obscurity. I've not even tried to look for it at this wintr olympics for instance.
T&D were revolutionary in 1984. No one can deny that and they've been the idols of most ice dancers as well as ice dance fans, but in 1994 I thought they were the ones who were boring. G&P in their own way took ice dancing to a different level and made it popular. I agree though that nowadays ice dancing has gone back to being almost painful to watch. Pretty much everyone is the same.
An interesting view as Jayne is usually regarded as the better technical skater of the two whereas Chris is the more creative and innovative. He would come up witht he ideas and she had the skills to make that work. Many of the skaters he works with today have to water down his choreography in a way Jayne never had to do.
Really? I thought the general view was that he was the genius within the couple and she was the weaker one. However, I was too young to follow them in the 80's, so I can only go by what I have heard and seen of them in 1994. Chris looks like the stronger skater to me, but you may very well be right.
Really? I thought the general view was that he was the genius within the couple and she was the weaker one. However, I was too young to follow them in the 80's, so I can only go by what I have heard and seen of them in 1994. Chris looks like the stronger skater to me, but you may very well be right.
Certainly he was genius with his vision, but technically she is superb. I skated myself from the 1970's so was lucky enough to see them compete many times, I even remember Jayne as a pairs skater before she switched to Dance ( showing my age now!)
Grishuk/Platov were amazing skaters and deserve their plaudits but my heart was always with Usova/Zhulin, even before Torvill and Dean re entered the mix.
Certainly he was genius with his vision, but technically she is superb. I skated myself from the 1970's so was lucky enough to see them compete many times, I even remember Jayne as a pairs skater before she switched to Dance ( showing my age now!)
Grishuk/Platov were amazing skaters and deserve their plaudits but my heart was always with Usova/Zhulin, even before Torvill and Dean re entered the mix.
I guess the fact that Grishuk had a very public affair with the very married Zhulin made Grishuk/Platov's win in 1994 over Usova/Zhulin seem even more 'unfair'. Usova always had everyone's sympathy, even though I thought her and Zhulin were nothing special.
When Platov teamed up with Usova after the 1998 Olympics they became painfully boring to watch (despite my crush on Platov ).
I agree. The restrictions and new rues have made ice dance into boring pair skating.
Couldn't disagree more. The top three couples who finished in the medals positions in the Ice Dance had three utterly distinctive routines that bore no resemblance to each other at all.
Conversely, the pairs have become almost routine for the jumps and styles of thrown jumps you expect to see from a top rated pair.
I agree though that nowadays ice dancing has gone back to being almost painful to watch. Pretty much everyone is the same.
I find that a really odd opinion to be honest. This year's Ice Dancing has demonstrated beyond any doubt that there is infinite variety in the routines performed at the highest level. The two Russian pairs, to directly compare team mates, couldn't have more different Free Programs if they'd tried.
Couldn't disagree more. The top three couples who finished in the medals positions in the Ice Dance had three utterly distinctive routines that bore no resemblance to each other at all.
Conversely, the pairs have become almost routine for the jumps and styles of thrown jumps you expect to see from a top rated pair.
True, but I wasn't exactly blown away by the performances of either the Canadians or the Americans. They were difficult, but not very aesthetically pleasing. Nothing I will remember or ever want to re-watch.
That's a shame then as you've missed some utterly beautiful and totally mesmerising Ice Dance routines during the competition.
I 100% agree the competition between Virtue/Moir and Davis/White over the last two quadrennials has been fantastic to watch, add in the quirkines of Pechalat/Bourzat, the beauty of Ilinykh/Kaponosov and there have been some amazing performances at this Olympics.
I agree with you with Pairs, which used to be one of my favourite disciplines. Other than for the top two/three couples who do manage to bring some personality, everything becomes very similar and the lifts become contorted positions to rack up points.
True, but I wasn't exactly blown away by the performances of either the Canadians or the Americans. They were difficult, but not very aesthetically pleasing. Nothing I will remember or ever want to re-watch.
And, again, I hold the exact opposite opinion. Both Virtue & Moir and Davis & White produced utterly spellbinding routines, demonstrating incredible musicality and, in the case of the later pair, showing a lyrical and emotional content which they're not usually known for.
Both Russian pairs were utterly mesmerising for completely different reasons, watching Elena and Nikita's Black Swan was like being at the Bolshoi Ballet while Ekaterina and Dmitri's routine was disturbing and frenetic, like peering through the bars of a mental institution cell.
I think she was a star! Take their 1997 free dance "The Feeling Begins" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Jb8s68EpSM for instance - I have never seen any ice dance couple get even close to skating like that. G&P's chemistry was electrifying! I don't particularly like the slow romantic sentimental routines most ice dancers present. G&P looked like they hated each other so much they were going to rip each other's clothes off any minute.
Sorry I missed this earlier. Yes she was a star, but that tended to be the only personality she ever brought the ice. Not sure what you mean with "get close to skating like this"? Lots of couples brought that level of intensity to their on ice performances, the French couple Anissina & Peizerat for one. This (for me), was the best routine of all at Nagano, their Romeo & Juliet.
I preferred Grishuk & Platov's LibreTango routine from the 97 Euros and one of my favourite of all their routines is the Nagano Olympics Free Dance routine to Memorial Requiem.
Hope its ok to put in a word for an Ice skating star of the 40's - Sonja Henie.
Picked up a DVD in the Pound shop of her film - Sun Valley Serenade.
Great entertainment with Glen Miller and the fabulous Nichols Brothers dance routine,
Chattenooga Choo Choo included for good measure. Some of those old black and white 40's movies take some beating.
Hope its ok to put in a word for an Ice skating star of the 40's - Sonja Henie.
Picked up a DVD in the Pound shop of her film - Sun Valley Serenade.
Great entertainment with Glen Miller and the fabulous Nichols Brothers dance routine,
Chattenooga Choo Choo included for good measure. Some of those old black and white 40's movies take some beating.
I used to love it when they showed one of her films on a Saturday afternoon (along with Esther Williams' swimming ones) when I was at my grandparents
Russian ice skaters and gymnasts always seem to get overmarked.
I remember the crowd protesting until they remarked Olga korbut. Says it all really.
I think it's the other way around and quite a few people would love to see Russia lose.
The Soviet Union had a very long tradition of top gymnasts and figure skaters (except in the ladies discipline of course). Just like the Soviet ballet was extraordinary, so were their athletes in those traditional sports (with only Romania in gymnastics and very few nations in figure skating including GB's Torvill & Dean able to compete with them). However, in the 90's with the fall of the Soviet Union Russian sports fell apart too and all the Russian top athletes and coaches went abroad. It's not a coincidence that many of the top figure skaters and gymnasts are being coached by Russians. Russians haven't won in gymnastics for quite awhile and only this year have tried to slowly resurrect their figure skating tradition after the disaster in Vancouver.
Klimova & Ponomorenko were fabulous, I also loved Anjelika Krylova and Oleg Ovsiannikov. Their Carmen routine from Nagano was fantastic.
And, again, I hold the exact opposite opinion. Both Virtue & Moir and Davis & White produced utterly spellbinding routines, demonstrating incredible musicality and, in the case of the later pair, showing a lyrical and emotional content which they're not usually known for.
Both Russian pairs were utterly mesmerising for completely different reasons, watching Elena and Nikita's Black Swan was like being at the Bolshoi Ballet while Ekaterina and Dmitri's routine was disturbing and frenetic, like peering through the bars of a mental institution cell.
Sorry I missed this earlier. Yes she was a star, but that tended to be the only personality she ever brought the ice. Not sure what you mean with "get close to skating like this"? Lots of couples brought that level of intensity to their on ice performances, the French couple Anissina & Peizerat for one. This (for me), was the best routine of all at Nagano, their Romeo & Juliet.
I preferred Grishuk & Platov's LibreTango routine from the 97 Euros and one of my favourite of all their routines is the Nagano Olympics Free Dance routine toMemorial Requiem.
Anjelika Krylova & Oleg Ovsiannikov - I was very much against them at the time because I loved Grishuk & Platov, but they were a fantastic pair and I feel very sorry for them that they never got to become Olympic champions, as they were always second to G&P and then had to retire due to injury. Anjelika was beautiful. She's an amazing coach as well and I loved the routine of the second Canadian couple (Kaitlyn Weaver / Andrew Poje) at these Olympics.
Anissina & Peizerat - We have very different tastes because I could never stand this couple! I thought they were incredibly tacky and I couldn't stand their choreography. Those lifts when she lifts him were just awful.
I actually thought G&P were at their weakest in 1998. They looked vulnerable and were making mistakes. My favourite season for them was 1997 - their Libertango and The Feeling Begins routines.
As for this year... the only performances I thought were beautiful to watch this year were the Bronze medalists' Black Swan and Kaitlyn Weaver & Andrew Poje's routines. I actively dislike the second Russian team (Bobrova/Soloviev). I think he is a much better skater than her and she doesn't look good on the ice. Plus they are coached by Zhulin who has never been my favourite figure skater or coach!
The two top teams were not enjoyable for me I'm afraid. I'm not talking about their flawless technical abilities, but the programmes were nothing special (in my eyes). Virtue & Moir are a beautiful couple, but their free dance was boring. Davis & White I just don't like. I find them difficult to watch. She is extremely unattractive and their routines are just combinations of difficult elements. They haven't moved me at all.
What did people think of Penny Coomes & Nick Buckland at these Olympics? I actually thought their routine was quite clever, but again I think Nick is the better skater and the routine tries to cover up her weaknesses. Also I think she comes across as quite reserved. She needs to get some 'star-quality'. I really wish them well though and I hope Platov can lead them to the podium in 4 years' time.
I guess I'm one of the few figure skating nuts around here.
I also love the gossip off the ice. Does anyone have an opinion on the Grishuk/Zhulin and Usova/Platov love rechtangle? It's well known that Grishuk had an affair with Zhulin and Usova even now - 20 years on - is still broadly portrayed as the poor victim in all of this. I have also heard, although from an unreliable source, that Grishuk was the cause for Platov's marriage break up and she certainly voiced her dislike for Platov's wife whilst they were skating together. I never understood what women saw in Zhulin. Platov was so much more handsome.
At the same time Grishuk was linked to beautiful Olympic Gold medalist in the men's skating in 1994 - Alexei Urmanov. She certainly got around. However, whatever her behaviour off the ice, I don't think Platov would have got anywhere without her and it's a real shame Usova managed to break them up after the 1998 Olympics. I read an interview with her where she said that she should have teamed up with Platov before 1994 and they would have won... I somehow doubt that very much!
What did people think of Penny Coomes & Nick Buckland at these Olympics? I actually thought their routine was quite clever, but again I think Nick is the better skater and the routine tries to cover up her weaknesses. Also I think she comes across as quite reserved. She needs to get some 'star-quality'. I really wish them well though and I hope Platov can lead them to the podium in 4 years' time.
I enjoyed their skate and thought they deserved slightly higher marks than they got. It was a clever and interesting routine with some nice "tricks" which tied in perfectly to the music.
I guess I'm one of the few figure skating nuts around here.
I also love the gossip off the ice. Does anyone have an opinion on the Grishuk/Zhulin and Usova/Platov love rechtangle? It's well known that Grishuk had an affair with Zhulin and Usova even now - 20 years on - is still broadly portrayed as the poor victim in all of this. I have also heard, although from an unreliable source, that Grishuk was the cause for Platov's marriage break up and she certainly voiced her dislike for Platov's wife whilst they were skating together. I never understood what women saw in Zhulin. Platov was so much more handsome.
At the same time Grishuk was linked to beautiful Olympic Gold medalist in the men's skating in 1994 - Alexei Urmanov. She certainly got around. However, whatever her behaviour off the ice, I don't think Platov would have got anywhere without her and it's a real shame Usova managed to break them up after the 1998 Olympics. I read an interview with her where she said that she should have teamed up with Platov before 1994 and they would have won... I somehow doubt that very much!
I don't think you're the only skating nut around, just that General Discussion isn't usually the place to find a thread about it.
I still think Penny Coomes is a bit too cautious on the ice and lacks passion. Maybe Nick's heart problems affected her. If I hadn't read that they were a couple off the ice I would never have been able to tell. They need to turn the passion on a bit more. They come across as lovely people though. I hope they do well.
Comments
I think the move toward emphasis on the more difficult elements even if you end up on your backside has been a negative move aesthetically for me...
The pasodoble from 1984 in Sarajevo was very memorable too.
I agree. The restrictions and new rues have made ice dance into boring pair skating.
They don't jump and aren't allowed the lifts that pair skaters are allowed to do.
Totally agree. T&D were (imo) deliberately marked down because a lot of peoples' noses had been put out of joint over them making so much money during their previous 10 years as professionals. Sadly figure skating is so rife with politics it can take a lot of the enjoyment out of watching it at times.
Yes, quite considerable ones, the main one being that Pairs Skating has overhead lifts as well as side by side jumps and thrown jumps. There are no jumps in Ice Dancing and the couple has to spend the majority of their routine connected (from memory, they may have changed that with the new system).
T&D brought the ice dance to the attention of those who wouldn't ever have dreamt of watching it. I fear now that they've gone, ice dance will sink back into obscurity. I've not even tried to look for it at this wintr olympics for instance.
An interesting view as Jayne is usually regarded as the better technical skater of the two whereas Chris is the more creative and innovative. He would come up witht he ideas and she had the skills to make that work. Many of the skaters he works with today have to water down his choreography in a way Jayne never had to do.
T&D were revolutionary in 1984. No one can deny that and they've been the idols of most ice dancers as well as ice dance fans, but in 1994 I thought they were the ones who were boring. G&P in their own way took ice dancing to a different level and made it popular. I agree though that nowadays ice dancing has gone back to being almost painful to watch. Pretty much everyone is the same.
Really? I thought the general view was that he was the genius within the couple and she was the weaker one. However, I was too young to follow them in the 80's, so I can only go by what I have heard and seen of them in 1994. Chris looks like the stronger skater to me, but you may very well be right.
Certainly he was genius with his vision, but technically she is superb. I skated myself from the 1970's so was lucky enough to see them compete many times, I even remember Jayne as a pairs skater before she switched to Dance ( showing my age now!)
Grishuk/Platov were amazing skaters and deserve their plaudits but my heart was always with Usova/Zhulin, even before Torvill and Dean re entered the mix.
I guess the fact that Grishuk had a very public affair with the very married Zhulin made Grishuk/Platov's win in 1994 over Usova/Zhulin seem even more 'unfair'. Usova always had everyone's sympathy, even though I thought her and Zhulin were nothing special.
When Platov teamed up with Usova after the 1998 Olympics they became painfully boring to watch (despite my crush on Platov
Couldn't disagree more. The top three couples who finished in the medals positions in the Ice Dance had three utterly distinctive routines that bore no resemblance to each other at all.
Conversely, the pairs have become almost routine for the jumps and styles of thrown jumps you expect to see from a top rated pair.
That's a shame then as you've missed some utterly beautiful and totally mesmerising Ice Dance routines during the competition.
I find that a really odd opinion to be honest. This year's Ice Dancing has demonstrated beyond any doubt that there is infinite variety in the routines performed at the highest level. The two Russian pairs, to directly compare team mates, couldn't have more different Free Programs if they'd tried.
Olympic Gold
True, but I wasn't exactly blown away by the performances of either the Canadians or the Americans. They were difficult, but not very aesthetically pleasing. Nothing I will remember or ever want to re-watch.
I 100% agree the competition between Virtue/Moir and Davis/White over the last two quadrennials has been fantastic to watch, add in the quirkines of Pechalat/Bourzat, the beauty of Ilinykh/Kaponosov and there have been some amazing performances at this Olympics.
I agree with you with Pairs, which used to be one of my favourite disciplines. Other than for the top two/three couples who do manage to bring some personality, everything becomes very similar and the lifts become contorted positions to rack up points.
Klimova & Ponomorenko were fabulous, I also loved Anjelika Krylova and Oleg Ovsiannikov. Their Carmen routine from Nagano was fantastic.
And, again, I hold the exact opposite opinion. Both Virtue & Moir and Davis & White produced utterly spellbinding routines, demonstrating incredible musicality and, in the case of the later pair, showing a lyrical and emotional content which they're not usually known for.
Both Russian pairs were utterly mesmerising for completely different reasons, watching Elena and Nikita's Black Swan was like being at the Bolshoi Ballet while Ekaterina and Dmitri's routine was disturbing and frenetic, like peering through the bars of a mental institution cell.
Sorry I missed this earlier. Yes she was a star, but that tended to be the only personality she ever brought the ice. Not sure what you mean with "get close to skating like this"? Lots of couples brought that level of intensity to their on ice performances, the French couple Anissina & Peizerat for one. This (for me), was the best routine of all at Nagano, their Romeo & Juliet.
I preferred Grishuk & Platov's LibreTango routine from the 97 Euros and one of my favourite of all their routines is the Nagano Olympics Free Dance routine to Memorial Requiem.
Picked up a DVD in the Pound shop of her film - Sun Valley Serenade.
Great entertainment with Glen Miller and the fabulous Nichols Brothers dance routine,
Chattenooga Choo Choo included for good measure. Some of those old black and white 40's movies take some beating.
I used to love it when they showed one of her films on a Saturday afternoon (along with Esther Williams' swimming ones) when I was at my grandparents
I remember the crowd protesting until they remarked Olga korbut. Says it all really.
I think it's the other way around and quite a few people would love to see Russia lose.
The Soviet Union had a very long tradition of top gymnasts and figure skaters (except in the ladies discipline of course). Just like the Soviet ballet was extraordinary, so were their athletes in those traditional sports (with only Romania in gymnastics and very few nations in figure skating including GB's Torvill & Dean able to compete with them). However, in the 90's with the fall of the Soviet Union Russian sports fell apart too and all the Russian top athletes and coaches went abroad. It's not a coincidence that many of the top figure skaters and gymnasts are being coached by Russians. Russians haven't won in gymnastics for quite awhile and only this year have tried to slowly resurrect their figure skating tradition after the disaster in Vancouver.
Anjelika Krylova & Oleg Ovsiannikov - I was very much against them at the time because I loved Grishuk & Platov, but they were a fantastic pair and I feel very sorry for them that they never got to become Olympic champions, as they were always second to G&P and then had to retire due to injury. Anjelika was beautiful. She's an amazing coach as well and I loved the routine of the second Canadian couple (Kaitlyn Weaver / Andrew Poje) at these Olympics.
Anissina & Peizerat - We have very different tastes because I could never stand this couple! I thought they were incredibly tacky and I couldn't stand their choreography. Those lifts when she lifts him were just awful.
I actually thought G&P were at their weakest in 1998. They looked vulnerable and were making mistakes. My favourite season for them was 1997 - their Libertango and The Feeling Begins routines.
As for this year... the only performances I thought were beautiful to watch this year were the Bronze medalists' Black Swan and Kaitlyn Weaver & Andrew Poje's routines. I actively dislike the second Russian team (Bobrova/Soloviev). I think he is a much better skater than her and she doesn't look good on the ice. Plus they are coached by Zhulin who has never been my favourite figure skater or coach!
The two top teams were not enjoyable for me I'm afraid. I'm not talking about their flawless technical abilities, but the programmes were nothing special (in my eyes). Virtue & Moir are a beautiful couple, but their free dance was boring. Davis & White I just don't like. I find them difficult to watch. She is extremely unattractive and their routines are just combinations of difficult elements. They haven't moved me at all.
Klimova & Ponomorenko were beautiful of course.
I also love the gossip off the ice. Does anyone have an opinion on the Grishuk/Zhulin and Usova/Platov love rechtangle? It's well known that Grishuk had an affair with Zhulin and Usova even now - 20 years on - is still broadly portrayed as the poor victim in all of this. I have also heard, although from an unreliable source, that Grishuk was the cause for Platov's marriage break up and she certainly voiced her dislike for Platov's wife whilst they were skating together. I never understood what women saw in Zhulin. Platov was so much more handsome.
At the same time Grishuk was linked to beautiful Olympic Gold medalist in the men's skating in 1994 - Alexei Urmanov. She certainly got around.
I enjoyed their skate and thought they deserved slightly higher marks than they got. It was a clever and interesting routine with some nice "tricks" which tied in perfectly to the music.
I don't think you're the only skating nut around, just that General Discussion isn't usually the place to find a thread about it.