As for Rafa it's a no from me...We have been there and done that.
As for Sturridge I feel sorry for the lad and we miss him.
I think there is one thing that needs to be looked at.. RH and England set up.
Sturridge problems started with a training injury whilst on England duty and there have been others. Baines just to name one and there are a few returning early to clubs with injuries. Also why with the busy league programme were England playing a bloody friendly straight after a Euro game ?
You have a very valid point there.
All teams will have their own training methods that players are 'weaned' into, then tweaked to suit individuals, and their bodies become accustomed to their own programmes.
When they go off to play for national teams they should be allowed to continue using their own proven training methods, though I doubt that would go down well, it would be a lot more beneficial for club and country. Too many players are coming back from International duty a mess, too much is at stake in the PL for this to be allowed to continue, changes have to be made, and fast!
In 6 years he guided us to win the CL and FA Cup, both very exciting and dramatic finals as opposed to a master-class in outclassing your opponents. These were, along with the 1-4 Man U result very pleasing wins. All else is just varying degrees of failure!
Based on trophies alone Rodgers first two seasons have been complete failures compared to Benitez's. However in my view Benitez's trophies had very little do with his long term stewardship and more due to performance on the day of the players. In comparison Rodgers failures, certainly last season, is more due to isolated (and unfortunate) player performances as opposed to poor strategic planning.
I am happy to accept victories and trophies from bad performances rather than second places from excellent performances however I firmly believe that Rodgers offers more hope for the future than a manager with a more conservative approach to play. For Rodgers, he has yet to prove himself by winning a trophy and his transfers need to shine better. The jury is still out, but not for Benitez, in my view.
He guided us to far more than just that!
CL football every season bar for when he was sacked, 2 finals & a semi final in a tournament we are today struggling to get out of the group stage and struggling to get back in next season, yet those achievements were varying forms of failure! Really?
More to do with performance of player. So that's means Traore is better than Moreno, Baros better than Balotelli, Smicer better than etc .......I beg to differ on that point too.
It's a bad sign that he has now had two "comebacks" and had picked up an injury in training both times. Not good.
As for the Rafa debate, I appreciate what he did for us but IF (and it's not something we should even be discussing really) Rodgers goes, I'd want somebody new. Rafa was poor at Inter and he's not exactly setting making waves at Napoli. Why would we want him?
It's not really been a case of discussing it in that way though. You will see all posts on the subject backing BR at this time but saying IF the time came etc, we are not advocating the removal of BR, just saying that if that was to happen we'd welcome Rafa back. Not agrreing is perfectly fine but those who just dismiss his time at the club are just being silly!
Not making waves at Napoli? What is the expectation of Napoli?
I mean in his 1st season he got them top 3 and CL football, and a trophy.
This season yes they have been knocked out of CL but they are now back in 3rd in Serie A, so I think he is doing a fairly decent job of it actually considering Juve, AC, Inter etc.
Seem to remember going through this with Torres... gets injured, rush him back, gets injured, rush him back. The sooner the team realise Sturridge is not going to be their savior and start playing properly the better. We can then bring Sturridge back to fitness at our leisure and not risk another relapse.
As for Rafa... no way. Thanks for the memories but he was our past, not our future. We surely learned that lesson with Kenny?
I'd hardly say we've rushed Sturridge back! Calf & thigh injuries, not ruptures, I think he's been given plenty of off time. The guys clearly got weaknesses in those areas.
He guided us to far more than just that!
CL football every season bar for when he was sacked, 2 finals & a semi final in a tournament we are today struggling to get out of the group stage and struggling to get back in next season, yet those achievements were varying forms of failure! Really?
More to do with performance of player. So that's means Traore is better than Moreno, Baros better than Balotelli, Smicer better than etc .......I beg to differ on that point too.
It's not really been a case of discussing it in that way though. You will see all posts on the subject backing BR at this time but saying IF the time came etc, we are not advocating the removal of BR, just saying that if that was to happen we'd welcome Rafa back. Not agrreing is perfectly fine but those who just dismiss his time at the club are just being silly!
Not making waves at Napoli? What is the expectation of Napoli?
I mean in his 1st season he got them top 3 and CL football, and a trophy.
This season yes they have been knocked out of CL but they are now back in 3rd in Serie A, so I think he is doing a fairly decent job of it actually considering Juve, AC, Inter etc.
I often see both sides exaggerate Benitez's time here. Some act like he achieved very little other than the CL win while others claim he was the best thing since sliced bread. He's a good manager who made some top signings but also some bad ones. He always said he didn't have enough control over transfers and I think that's area where Rodgers is lucky; he's got owners who believe very strongly in him and have backed him accordingly. People like to point out how much Rafa supposedly blew but in net terms he spent just over £10m a season (and it's not like he received any ridiculous fees like Kenny or Rodgers to drive that figure down). One thing I'll not forget from his time here was how we were considered a force in Europe. No team wanted to draw us under his tenure.
Benitez sprinkled some tactical nous on what Houllier had done, especially in Europe and that paid dividends. League-wise, it wasn't much different to the Evans and Houllier eras with just a single season when we were genuine challengers. The slump the following season as Benitez allowed himself to be distracted was his downfall.
Rafa also had Gerrard in his prime which can't be overlooked but did attract the like of Alonso, Mascherano and Torres to the club which was important.
BR took the reigns with the club at a consistent low. We'd lost our top four berth (not helped by the emergence of an oil-fuelled City) and had sold most of our CL quality players as a result.
Our Achilles heel at the point of BR's arrival was our striking options as it was Suarez and nothing much else. Sturridge cured that in spectacular style bur we've since inevitably lost Suarez permanently and Sturridge temporarily after they'd both inspired us to our best season in years.
It was, in hindsight, a mistake to bring in the relatively immobile Lambert and Balotelli given Sturridge's injury record as without pace and movement, the system that worked so well last season breaks down entirely as opposition press further up the pitch without fear. This has the knock-on effect of smothering Gerrard's space.
I hope it's not a fatal error as I truly believe BR is for the long run. Everything I hear suggests the purchase of Balotelli was not solely a BR decision anyway.
If we can limp through to January and then get some pace and movement back up front then I'm confident we'll improve drastically. This is not the time for knee-jerk reactions.
If Origi comes in January, his movement and pace will open those spaces again, even if he's not yet as prolific as he will be in the future.
I hope we play both Coutinho and Lallana tomorrow - it's better to play to Palace's weaknesses rather than go there with workman-like team just because of what happened there last season - that was purely down to a desperate attempt to rack up the goal difference by a team made fragile by a psychologically samaging Chelsea defeat.
I don't particular want Mario to play but I guess he will. It's getting tougher and tougher waiting for him to hit some form in front goal.
Lots of things about the team selection and recent BR decisions that I disagree with or at least have major doubts about.
For example
Johnson still playing
Moreno not playing - the summer signing who has done fairly well
Still having Lovren in the team rather than Toure - based on their recent performances that is questionable
Cam who was the best player last game not playing
Where he plays SG - seems as if he is till in the DM role - which he does not suit
Choosing Lambert not Borini to play up front - I'd have Fabio or even both but not Ricky by himself
Suso who has only been on the pitch once this season (V Boro) and did well being left out still - but maybe he is still injured
The rumours of Lucas leaving bother me as yes he is not at the level of 3 seasons ago but he has done OK in the games he has played and simply seems to be off BRs favourites list so I don't blame him for looking to leave. Same basically goes for Suso.
But I am a LFC fan, I do like a lot of what BR has done at the club, I do not want him sacked and the eleven players on the pitch are well capable of beating Palace so lets hope it happens. One thing I am glad about is Lallana playing today - lets hope he gets decent run in the team.
It's the side I wanted front an attacking perspective so let's hope it works out and BR sticks with a settled lineup for a few games as reallying we shouldn't be winning these next three games irrespective of Sturridge being out.
Hopefully that's goal will finally allow us to see the real Rickie Lambert and not the tensed up version we've seen bits and pieces of so far this season. Cracking pass from Lallana too.
Master tactician BR with a grand total of 0 trophies to his name.. yet again playing with only one striker up front..where exactly are the goals going to come from now? I think it is a blessing Henderson is not playing.. Only Gerrard is proven at getting goals from midfield in this team on a regular basis, but hes playing too deep..Lallana? Probably not. Sterling just keeps losing the ball, Coutinho is inventive.. but cannot get any space to shoot, same as the other three because Palace are flooding the defence...with another striker I am sure they could stretch the defence a bit more to create more clear cut opportunites.. Palace have had the better attacks. I would personally drop Allen and bring in Borini.
BR got the tactics of a moose. I bet te only change he might possibly make is Allen/Borini late on when we are probably trailing or its still 1-1 and we need a goal.. onyl then we might sneak it in the 90th or so.. Does the man not understand the importance of starting with a strong line up to win? rather than relying on impact subs. He is really starting to annoy me.
Skrtel to blame for the goal. Gerrard gave him a simple pass and he makes a mess of it leading to Lovren needing to just boot the ball clear which feel to palace. How Skrtel and Lovren get so many chances I don't know.
Master tactician BR with a grand total of 0 trophies to his name.. yet again playing with only one striker up front..where exactly are the goals going to come from now? I think it is a blessing Henderson is not playing.. Only Gerrard is proven at getting goals from midfield in this team on a regular basis, but hes playing too deep..Lallana? Probably not. Sterling just keeps losing the ball, Coutinho is inventive.. but cannot get any space to shoot, same as the other three because Palace are flooding the defence...with another striker I am sure they could stretch the defence a bit more to create more clear cut opportunites.. Palace have had the better attacks. I would personally drop Allen and bring in Borini.
BR got the tactics of a moose. I bet te only change he might possibly make is Allen/Borini late on when we are probably trailing or its still 1-1 and we need a goal.. onyl then we might sneak it in the 90th or so.. Does the man not understand the importance of starting with a strong line up to win? rather than relying on impact subs. He is really starting to annoy me.
The idea that you need two strikers in the side to be attacking is a nonsense.
The idea that you need two strikers in the side to be attacking is a nonsense.
if you have Scholes or Pirlo in your team at least two of that type of player, then yes, you can play 1 up front, or possibly if you have a van nistelrooy up front or a really top, top quality striker, we have neither. Only Gerrard, and hes too deep.
Palace are just flooding the defence, Lambert cant do everything on his own and to be quite honest Palace arent exactly R. Madrid. Two strikers would easily pressure their less than world class defence and make this game quite easy for us.
Or Or push Gerrard further forward, playing a no.10 role, if Totti can do it to some quality at age 38? Then why cant Gerrard at 34? we really need Gerrard near the box more, bring on can stick him in the holding role, take off Allen, push Gerrard into the no.10 spot, BR can still keep his beloved formation. And we will actually start to be a threat from midfield, which is what you need playing 1 up front. Problem solved.
Or Or push Gerrard further forward, playing a no.10 role, if Totti can do it to some quality at age 38? Then why cant Gerrard at 34? we really need Gerrard near the box more, bring on can stick him in the holding role, take off Allen, push Gerrard into the no.10 spot, BR can still keep his beloved formation. And we will actually start to be a threat from midfield, which is what you need playing 1 up front. Problem solved.
The PL is a faster paced and more physically demanding league than where Totti plays.You make an excellent point about him being pushed forward to vary the tactics within a game but we can't expect Gerrard to be the driving force over an entire season any more.
Plenty of possession, but even with creative players like Sterling, Lallana and Coutinho the clear cut, on target chances are few and far between. Combined with being wide open to the counter attack and this is one of those not so enjoyable watches.
Comments
You have a very valid point there.
All teams will have their own training methods that players are 'weaned' into, then tweaked to suit individuals, and their bodies become accustomed to their own programmes.
When they go off to play for national teams they should be allowed to continue using their own proven training methods, though I doubt that would go down well, it would be a lot more beneficial for club and country. Too many players are coming back from International duty a mess, too much is at stake in the PL for this to be allowed to continue, changes have to be made, and fast!
CL football every season bar for when he was sacked, 2 finals & a semi final in a tournament we are today struggling to get out of the group stage and struggling to get back in next season, yet those achievements were varying forms of failure! Really?
More to do with performance of player. So that's means Traore is better than Moreno, Baros better than Balotelli, Smicer better than etc .......I beg to differ on that point too. It's not really been a case of discussing it in that way though. You will see all posts on the subject backing BR at this time but saying IF the time came etc, we are not advocating the removal of BR, just saying that if that was to happen we'd welcome Rafa back. Not agrreing is perfectly fine but those who just dismiss his time at the club are just being silly!
Not making waves at Napoli? What is the expectation of Napoli?
I mean in his 1st season he got them top 3 and CL football, and a trophy.
This season yes they have been knocked out of CL but they are now back in 3rd in Serie A, so I think he is doing a fairly decent job of it actually considering Juve, AC, Inter etc.
I'd hardly say we've rushed Sturridge back! Calf & thigh injuries, not ruptures, I think he's been given plenty of off time. The guys clearly got weaknesses in those areas.
I often see both sides exaggerate Benitez's time here. Some act like he achieved very little other than the CL win while others claim he was the best thing since sliced bread. He's a good manager who made some top signings but also some bad ones. He always said he didn't have enough control over transfers and I think that's area where Rodgers is lucky; he's got owners who believe very strongly in him and have backed him accordingly. People like to point out how much Rafa supposedly blew but in net terms he spent just over £10m a season (and it's not like he received any ridiculous fees like Kenny or Rodgers to drive that figure down). One thing I'll not forget from his time here was how we were considered a force in Europe. No team wanted to draw us under his tenure.
Rafa also had Gerrard in his prime which can't be overlooked but did attract the like of Alonso, Mascherano and Torres to the club which was important.
BR took the reigns with the club at a consistent low. We'd lost our top four berth (not helped by the emergence of an oil-fuelled City) and had sold most of our CL quality players as a result.
Our Achilles heel at the point of BR's arrival was our striking options as it was Suarez and nothing much else. Sturridge cured that in spectacular style bur we've since inevitably lost Suarez permanently and Sturridge temporarily after they'd both inspired us to our best season in years.
It was, in hindsight, a mistake to bring in the relatively immobile Lambert and Balotelli given Sturridge's injury record as without pace and movement, the system that worked so well last season breaks down entirely as opposition press further up the pitch without fear. This has the knock-on effect of smothering Gerrard's space.
I hope it's not a fatal error as I truly believe BR is for the long run. Everything I hear suggests the purchase of Balotelli was not solely a BR decision anyway.
If we can limp through to January and then get some pace and movement back up front then I'm confident we'll improve drastically. This is not the time for knee-jerk reactions.
If Origi comes in January, his movement and pace will open those spaces again, even if he's not yet as prolific as he will be in the future.
I hope we play both Coutinho and Lallana tomorrow - it's better to play to Palace's weaknesses rather than go there with workman-like team just because of what happened there last season - that was purely down to a desperate attempt to rack up the goal difference by a team made fragile by a psychologically samaging Chelsea defeat.
I don't particular want Mario to play but I guess he will. It's getting tougher and tougher waiting for him to hit some form in front goal.
For example
Johnson still playing
Moreno not playing - the summer signing who has done fairly well
Still having Lovren in the team rather than Toure - based on their recent performances that is questionable
Cam who was the best player last game not playing
Where he plays SG - seems as if he is till in the DM role - which he does not suit
Choosing Lambert not Borini to play up front - I'd have Fabio or even both but not Ricky by himself
Suso who has only been on the pitch once this season (V Boro) and did well being left out still - but maybe he is still injured
The rumours of Lucas leaving bother me as yes he is not at the level of 3 seasons ago but he has done OK in the games he has played and simply seems to be off BRs favourites list so I don't blame him for looking to leave. Same basically goes for Suso.
But I am a LFC fan, I do like a lot of what BR has done at the club, I do not want him sacked and the eleven players on the pitch are well capable of beating Palace so lets hope it happens. One thing I am glad about is Lallana playing today - lets hope he gets decent run in the team.
Come on Liverpool
BR got the tactics of a moose. I bet te only change he might possibly make is Allen/Borini late on when we are probably trailing or its still 1-1 and we need a goal.. onyl then we might sneak it in the 90th or so.. Does the man not understand the importance of starting with a strong line up to win? rather than relying on impact subs. He is really starting to annoy me.
The idea that you need two strikers in the side to be attacking is a nonsense.
Palace are just flooding the defence, Lambert cant do everything on his own and to be quite honest Palace arent exactly R. Madrid. Two strikers would easily pressure their less than world class defence and make this game quite easy for us.
The PL is a faster paced and more physically demanding league than where Totti plays.You make an excellent point about him being pushed forward to vary the tactics within a game but we can't expect Gerrard to be the driving force over an entire season any more.
FFS.