Gallifrey was frozen, wasn't it?
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"Frozen in an instant in time, like a painting." 10 and WD, DOTD
If they were frozen, how could they send the message and grant a new regeneration cycle?
For me Moffat was a good once a series episode writer, but as show runner he has dug himself far too many deep holes and then come up with silly conclusions that don't make much sense to get out of them.
For instance, what the hell happens to the whole NOTD storyline now? With his grave being there and stuff? It surely can't be re-written cause they have seen it, and if the whole Angels Take Manhattan premise that reading something makes it fixed is true then surely seeing it with your own eyes makes it so too?
I didn't think tonights episode was terrible, it had it's moments, there has been worse in s7, but for that to be Matts final sendoff is a crime, I'd rather he'd left at the end of the 50th, would have been more fitting to his legacy. Him and Jenna were both great tonight however, just a pity the story was poor.
If they were frozen, how could they send the message and grant a new regeneration cycle?
For me Moffat was a good once a series episode writer, but as show runner he has dug himself far too many deep holes and then come up with silly conclusions that don't make much sense to get out of them.
For instance, what the hell happens to the whole NOTD storyline now? With his grave being there and stuff? It surely can't be re-written cause they have seen it, and if the whole Angels Take Manhattan premise that reading something makes it fixed is true then surely seeing it with your own eyes makes it so too?
I didn't think tonights episode was terrible, it had it's moments, there has been worse in s7, but for that to be Matts final sendoff is a crime, I'd rather he'd left at the end of the 50th, would have been more fitting to his legacy. Him and Jenna were both great tonight however, just a pity the story was poor.
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There's no reason it can't still be his grave.... just in 13 generations time.
I'm not sure when you started watching, but that's never been the case!
TBF last year they did say that that's why he can't go back and save Amy and Rory as he saw their graves and read the book.
But as already said he may still so there to die even if it's another 100 regenerators down the line
They were locked in a single second - but it was still real time to them.
No, not the reading part - the 'seeing things with their own eyes'. It happens all the time, and the Doctor can change things - sometimes it's hard to do, sometimes it's easy, but he can.
The 'not being able to change stuff when read' thing was introduced in ToA, and since then we've seen things being changed after being seen by the Doctor. Not what you thought I meant.
I've been watching (and not missed an episode) since the return in 2005...
I know that, but then why would they make reading something be a fixed point? Surely the laws of time and space don't adhere to something as trivial as a word being read, poor plot device in my opinion.
I guess so... it was suggested that he died in battle there though... and not to mention all the soldiers gravestones.
It also said it was a very easy battle a minor skirmish compared to what he had been though in the past well that battle lasting over 500 years against every enemy he's ever had all at the same time could hardly be called a minor skirmish
Without the events of Day, The Doctor would have been killed on Trenzalore. But it's not perfect because of the signal which lured them there..
Presumably it was still a minor skirmish compared to the Time War.
Not really, the act of travelling in time and observing something has different properties to someone who isn't travelling through time and observing things in a linear fashion and then reporting on those observations.
The act of reading the words is the same as opening the box to see if the cat's dead. It's the uncertainty principal. But we've had it well established that Timelords themselves can break those pesky rules of physics we lowly humans have to abide by.
He didn't change his history, those events always happened, he just couldn't remember them...
Well surely then seeing something makes that something more certain than just reading it.
Things "haven't always happened" with him - even when it doesn't make sense.
Are there any concrete examples of that? Isn't it mainly not "that time can be rewritten" but "minor details can be tweaked, as long as the grand scheme of things remains"?
That's why I made sure to point out that the Timelords don't adhere to our laws of physics. Also, they are viewing things in a non-linear progression. Finally, reading the words are a secondary observation - it's been through other witnesses first. More than enough difference to allow different properties.
I agree about them being frozen, though. I don't understand how they can send messages through the crack if they're frozen in time.
Essentially that. In a weird twist of fate, the Tenth Doctor practically killed himself stopping the Time Lords returning to protect the Universe. The 11th grew old in order to protect the Time Lords from the evil of the Universe. In the Tenth Era the Time Lords planned on using The Master to re-enter the Universe and failed. We now know there is a good side to the Time Lords and heavily rely on The Doctor bringing them back, however, it seems the Universe (i.e. The Dalekts) are waiting for them to restart the Time War.
Time Lords are relying on the tiniest cracks in the Universe to interact with it, they have now had two failed attempts to come back and resorting the only measure they had left, to keep The Doctor alive from him to find the solution within the Universe.