They have at least expressed regret about the poor communication. Which I think is fair enough. It was a bit poor (or downright deliberately misleading depending on your disposition) and they've given a (sort of) apology. I think the "still going strong" bit is a forward looking statement - so once the November loveliness has raised the profile massively and IF series 8 is thirteen episodes all shown during 2014 then "going strong" is a perfect description of things. Although, obviously, any claims that spreading series 7 over two years is good evidence of "going strong" would be bonkers. Not too bad a response I thought.
I think the "still going strong" bit is a forward looking statement - so once the November loveliness has raised the profile massively and IF series 8 is thirteen episodes all shown during 2014 then "going strong" is a perfect description of things. Although, obviously, any claims that spreading series 7 over two years is good evidence of "going strong" would be bonkers. Not too bad a response I thought.
You weren't far off, DiscoP. Here's the BBC response to my complaint;
Thank you for contacting us regarding the scheduling of ‘Doctor Who’. We understand that you feel that statements made about the scheduling of the 7th series were misleading and statements made about the scheduling of the 8th series were untrue.
Series 7 comprises 14 episodes including a Christmas special which aired from September 2012 to May 2013. We regret if it wasn’t clear that these episodes would be spread over two years.
This year marks the 50th anniversary of ‘Doctor Who’ and a 50th anniversary special is planned. There has been no announcement about broadcast dates for series 8 but ‘Doctor Who’ is still going strong in its 50th year.
We appreciate you would like to see even more episodes of this programme and we’d like to assure you that we’ve registered your comments on our audience log. This is the internal report of audience feedback that’s compiled daily and made available to staff across the BBC, including programme makers, channel controllers, and commissioning executives.
The audience logs are seen as important documents that can help shape decisions about future programming and content. Thanks again for taking the time to contact us.
I have resubmitted my complaints as I don't feel they have actually answered my complaints about misleading and untrue statements about the production and scheduling of seasons 7 and 8. In particular, that the show's much publicised move to the autumn has proven to be completely untrue.
I've also complained that this response, itself, includes an untruth with the line "Doctor Who is still going strong in its 50th year". Actually, we have seen a 42% reduction in episodes over the past two years.
I know not everyone feels I should even bother complaining and that I should feel grateful for the episodes that have been made. But I personally think its important to challenge the BBC when it publishes untrue or misleading statements - particularly when its about my favourite TV show.
Does make you wonder if we all should write in and register our irk at being mislead. Didn't they also say we'd be getting more Who than ever in the anniversary year?
As license fee payers we have the right to be irked.
Especially when I only watch five shows a year on the BBC, and now one of them has been halved.
I say we all send them a collection of their misleading statements.
Right! Let's get the ball rolling. First up:
"Chris Eccleston does not want to become typecast so sadly has to leave. He loved making the series and has made close personal friendships with all the production team. If only it weren't for the typecasting fear and the need to nurse to health a sackful of half drowned kittens he adopted after rescuing them from Tiger bay while shooting Boomtown he would of course have stayed on."
"The show needs more/fewer* cliffhangers!"
"We need to make sure the show is never more than a few months away/the audience is always kept guessing about when the next dribble will be.*"
"I love/hate* Doctor Who on barbeque days."
* delete as applicable.
I jest. Increasingly ancient history. But funny if you like obsessing over laughable BBC PR guff.
"Chris Eccleston does not want to become typecast so sadly has to leave. He loved making the series and has made close personal friendships with all the production team. If only it weren't for the typecasting fear and the need to nurse to health a sackful of half drowned kittens he adopted after rescuing them from Tiger bay while shooting Boomtown he would of course have stayed on."
"The show needs more/fewer* cliffhangers!"
"We need to make sure the show is never more than a few months away/the audience is always kept guessing about when the next dribble will be.*"
"I love/hate* Doctor Who on barbeque days."
* delete as applicable.
I jest. Increasingly ancient history. But funny if you like obsessing over laughable BBC PR guff.
As we all know, Freema Agyeman was certainly not sacked. She merely exited the series at a moment's notice and was hastily replaced by a previous companion, before gradually fading out of the Whoniverse with token appearances in Series 4 and Torchwood as consolation. And Russell T Davies certainly didn't admit all that in The Writer's Tale.
The need for single-part episodes with a simple story arc is something we fully endorse and certainly did not contradict by pushing for the opposite in the previous year.
They have at least expressed regret about the poor communication. Which I think is fair enough.
They haven't, not really. Some employee in the complaints department has expressed regret but they would say that regardless as it's a customer service technique they use to calm angry customers. It's unlikely the complaint will ever get as far as the people making these decisions unfortunately.
Social Media is the way to make a point. You may not get a response but you are being watched by far more important people than the complaints department of the BBC. Use the #BBC hashtag so that everyone sees it. Will it make a difference? Probably not but it's a great way of venting frustration
They haven't, not really. Some employee in the complaints department has expressed regret but they would say that regardless as it's a customer service technique they use to calm angry customers. It's unlikely the complaint will ever get as far as the people making these decisions unfortunately.
It does seem a little bit "We are sorry if you feel that way" which is different to "We're sorry for what we did".
I don't see how it really matters. The title choice is rather irrelevant.
490 odd posts is quite a trawl - and most re-tread the same ground again and again but...
The gist seems to be it's not the "7b" title that's the problem, it's the "con" about the split.
The show was recorded as series 7 - fair enough and par for the course for many shows even if they will be split, it makes sense from an actor's schedule, marketing etc.
The show was split in its broadcast so series 7 covered two years - people are "meh" for the most part
The BBC are disingenuous, and lie to Moff, or Moff is and lies to the fans about the great stuff coming up rather than saying "actually, we've only the budget for half a season a year, but recorded it in one block as it sells abroad better that way, expect to see about half as much as you usually do and blame the tories "
If they'd just said. times are tough you get x this year y next year STFU, then no harm, no foul
Exactly - who cares?? People in this forum really take "fandom" to a disturbing new level
Nobody cares what the series are called. Not even the OP. What has irritated people is the poor quality PR the producers have bestowed upon us since 2011. They reassured people that the ONLY (their emphasis) thing that was happening was a slight shift of episodes to later in 2012. With a statement at the official convention that the series would run through the winter of 2012/2013 as a single series. And the longest production run in the history of the show! Exciting! None of it happened.
Tv is difficult. They have all sorts of problems. But why they make things worse for themselves by spouting ridiculous nonsense about the number of episodes to expect is a mystery.
Nobody cares what the series are called. Not even the OP. What has irritated people is the poor quality PR the producers have bestowed upon us since 2011. They reassured people that the ONLY (their emphasis) thing that was happening was a slight shift of episodes to later in 2012. With a statement at the official convention that the series would run through the winter of 2012/2013 as a single series. And the longest production run in the history of the show! Exciting! None of it happened.
Exactly. At least the BBC was completely honest and open about the 2009 specials. We knew well in advance what was happening and that a new, complete season of Who would begin again in spring 2010. And it all turned out to be accurate and true.
Not so recently and the BBC has continued to use smoke and mirrors to cover up a 42% reduction in Doctor Who in 2012/13 and been (at the very least) disingenuous in its PR. And all this, I must say, because Private Eye beat them to the punch and started releasing stories about a reduction in Who. The BBC was so quick to rush to deny the Private Eye story that it ended up telling a load of untruths and promising things to viewers/fans/licence fee payers that - as nebogipfel has stated - was complete hogwash.
Its not as if sci-fi/fantasy fans in the UK have a huge choice of sci-fi/fantasy shows to watch when Doctor Who is off the air. The BBC, in particular, pumps out endless soap, cop shows and costume dramas and does virtually nothing for the millions of viewers who like something a bit more fantastic and imaginative.
So I'm glad I lodged the complaint and I'm glad I've followed it up. Because the BBC's PR team need to stop issuing press releases from their backsides and start telling the truth. Or, at the very least, being clear and accurate in the statements they publish.
I don't really care what the series are called. My main issue is that the BBC are trying to sell what is effectively a brand new run as if it is a continuation of a previous run. This is to hide the fact that less episodes are being produced.
Think about it - in comparison with Series 7a, Series 7b has a new title sequence, the Doctor dressed differently, a new TARDIS, a new companion, a new "arc" (Great Intelligence).
What we expected:
2012: Series 7 - 13 episodes & Christmas Special
2013: Series 8 -13 episodes & Christmas Special
2014: Series 9 - 13 episodes & Christmas Special
Total: 42 episodes
What we are getting/will likely get:
2012: Series 7a - 5 episodes & Christmas Special
2013: Series 7b - 6 episodes, Anniversary Special & Christmas Special
2014: Series 8a - 5 episodes & Christmas Special (this is me guessing obviously)
Total: 20 episodes
In other words, we are getting almost 50% less episodes than we expected.
I know there will be some cries of "The BBC have confirmed Series 8 - there will be 13 episodes Series 8 will be broadcast in 2014". However, a betting man would state that, after this year, we won't see any new episodes until Autumn 2014.
Also, it's not that I feel "entitled" to episodes as such. I just wish the BBC were upfront with their plans like they were with the 2009 Specials.
That being said, I don't think it is expecting too much to have one series per year. Commissioning of British TV shows in general really frustrate me. For reasons of budget or otherwise, you are never sure when one successful series ends when exactly you can expect a new series, if at all.
Examples are/were Sherlock, Extras, Episodes, The Office, Downton Abbey, Broadchurch, Taggart, Lewis. However, at least with those shows, there are no false promises or cases of the wool being pulled over anyone's eyes.
We previously announced that series 7 had been commissioned and that it would consist of 14 episodes (13 plus a Christmas special); however, we didn't say it would run within the same calendar year. Likewise it has been mentioned that series 8 has been commissioned but we haven't made any official announcements concerning its scheduling.
They have now suggested I write to the BBC Trust and, you know what,that's exactly what I am going to do!
If anyone has links to statements the BBC has put out over the past few years which they think were misleading then please post them here and I'll use them in the submission.
We previously announced that series 7 had been commissioned and that it would consist of 14 episodes (13 plus a Christmas special); however, we didn't say it would run within the same calendar year. Likewise it has been mentioned that series 8 has been commissioned but we haven't made any official announcements concerning its scheduling.
They have now suggested I write to the BBC Trust and, you know what,that's exactly what I am going to do!
If anyone has links to statements the BBC has put out over the past few years which they think were misleading then please post them here and I'll use them in the submission.
You'll have seen my post about them claiming Eccleston left to nurse a family of sick kittens. That was bollocks that was. He left because he was a northern git with a northern hatred for southerners enjoying the show. Chip on his shoulder. Lord Leveson should uncover the truth here.
Good luck. I think the PR has been poor and it won't hurt them to know people ain't fooled by their nonsense. But I'm not convinced it's really a board of governors type of thing.
That 2011 "fourteen episodes all starring Matt" thing was downright insulting though. Cretins.
Yes, hostile fandom can only be good for the show in its anniversary year. It's not as if the tabloids would ever wish to stick the knife in, is it?
They already do. They read these forums and they read comments on pages like DS.
I meant about wanting more DW, more episodes.
My point was just if they want answers or attention from the BBC then they are doing the right thing, and twitter is another good platform. I don't really mind either way, I am just glad they got responses.
Yes, hostile fandom can only be good for the show in its anniversary year. It's not as if the tabloids would ever wish to stick the knife in, is it?
This chimes with me. Regardless that I think their PR has been laughably bad since 2011 it's not really a "man the barricades" kind of issue. Even though I think they are bad at it, I do know making telly is very hard and plans are forced to change. etc.
They don't owe us anything. If they say daft and untrue things I'll chat about it. Silly buggers.
But overall - Doctor Who is lovely. The BBC is one of the finest things invented by human civilisation and the Daily Mail and the Murdoch empire are beneath contempt.
You know what would be a good forum to ask questions directly to the people involved in all this, where you can;t be so easily fobbed off? There's the convention coming up in November. There'll be Q & As. Now, people can either be good little boys and girls, pay their extortionate entry fee and ask Matt Smith whether bowties are cool or what his favourite Patrick Troughton story is (Tomb of the Cybermen) or they can stand up and and ask Steven Moffat whether he intentionally told lies, why he told them etc. Now that would be interesting footage to watch for a change on Youtube.
Comments
Yes, agree 100%.
Does make you wonder if we all should write in and register our irk at being mislead. Didn't they also say we'd be getting more Who than ever in the anniversary year?
Especially when I only watch five shows a year on the BBC, and now one of them has been halved.
I say we all send them a collection of their misleading statements.
Right! Let's get the ball rolling. First up:
"Chris Eccleston does not want to become typecast so sadly has to leave. He loved making the series and has made close personal friendships with all the production team. If only it weren't for the typecasting fear and the need to nurse to health a sackful of half drowned kittens he adopted after rescuing them from Tiger bay while shooting Boomtown he would of course have stayed on."
"The show needs more/fewer* cliffhangers!"
"We need to make sure the show is never more than a few months away/the audience is always kept guessing about when the next dribble will be.*"
"I love/hate* Doctor Who on barbeque days."
* delete as applicable.
I jest. Increasingly ancient history. But funny if you like obsessing over laughable BBC PR guff.
As we all know, Freema Agyeman was certainly not sacked. She merely exited the series at a moment's notice and was hastily replaced by a previous companion, before gradually fading out of the Whoniverse with token appearances in Series 4 and Torchwood as consolation. And Russell T Davies certainly didn't admit all that in The Writer's Tale.
The need for single-part episodes with a simple story arc is something we fully endorse and certainly did not contradict by pushing for the opposite in the previous year.
Oh, that old chestnut. :yawn:
They haven't, not really. Some employee in the complaints department has expressed regret but they would say that regardless as it's a customer service technique they use to calm angry customers. It's unlikely the complaint will ever get as far as the people making these decisions unfortunately.
Social Media is the way to make a point. You may not get a response but you are being watched by far more important people than the complaints department of the BBC. Use the #BBC hashtag so that everyone sees it. Will it make a difference? Probably not but it's a great way of venting frustration
It does seem a little bit "We are sorry if you feel that way" which is different to "We're sorry for what we did".
Exactly - who cares?? People in this forum really take "fandom" to a disturbing new level
490 odd posts is quite a trawl - and most re-tread the same ground again and again but...
The gist seems to be it's not the "7b" title that's the problem, it's the "con" about the split.
If they'd just said. times are tough you get x this year y next year STFU, then no harm, no foul
Nobody cares what the series are called. Not even the OP. What has irritated people is the poor quality PR the producers have bestowed upon us since 2011. They reassured people that the ONLY (their emphasis) thing that was happening was a slight shift of episodes to later in 2012. With a statement at the official convention that the series would run through the winter of 2012/2013 as a single series. And the longest production run in the history of the show! Exciting! None of it happened.
Tv is difficult. They have all sorts of problems. But why they make things worse for themselves by spouting ridiculous nonsense about the number of episodes to expect is a mystery.
Exactly. At least the BBC was completely honest and open about the 2009 specials. We knew well in advance what was happening and that a new, complete season of Who would begin again in spring 2010. And it all turned out to be accurate and true.
Not so recently and the BBC has continued to use smoke and mirrors to cover up a 42% reduction in Doctor Who in 2012/13 and been (at the very least) disingenuous in its PR. And all this, I must say, because Private Eye beat them to the punch and started releasing stories about a reduction in Who. The BBC was so quick to rush to deny the Private Eye story that it ended up telling a load of untruths and promising things to viewers/fans/licence fee payers that - as nebogipfel has stated - was complete hogwash.
Its not as if sci-fi/fantasy fans in the UK have a huge choice of sci-fi/fantasy shows to watch when Doctor Who is off the air. The BBC, in particular, pumps out endless soap, cop shows and costume dramas and does virtually nothing for the millions of viewers who like something a bit more fantastic and imaginative.
So I'm glad I lodged the complaint and I'm glad I've followed it up. Because the BBC's PR team need to stop issuing press releases from their backsides and start telling the truth. Or, at the very least, being clear and accurate in the statements they publish.
Think about it - in comparison with Series 7a, Series 7b has a new title sequence, the Doctor dressed differently, a new TARDIS, a new companion, a new "arc" (Great Intelligence).
What we expected:
2012: Series 7 - 13 episodes & Christmas Special
2013: Series 8 -13 episodes & Christmas Special
2014: Series 9 - 13 episodes & Christmas Special
Total: 42 episodes
What we are getting/will likely get:
2012: Series 7a - 5 episodes & Christmas Special
2013: Series 7b - 6 episodes, Anniversary Special & Christmas Special
2014: Series 8a - 5 episodes & Christmas Special (this is me guessing obviously)
Total: 20 episodes
In other words, we are getting almost 50% less episodes than we expected.
I know there will be some cries of "The BBC have confirmed Series 8 - there will be 13 episodes Series 8 will be broadcast in 2014". However, a betting man would state that, after this year, we won't see any new episodes until Autumn 2014.
That being said, I don't think it is expecting too much to have one series per year. Commissioning of British TV shows in general really frustrate me. For reasons of budget or otherwise, you are never sure when one successful series ends when exactly you can expect a new series, if at all.
Examples are/were Sherlock, Extras, Episodes, The Office, Downton Abbey, Broadchurch, Taggart, Lewis. However, at least with those shows, there are no false promises or cases of the wool being pulled over anyone's eyes.
We previously announced that series 7 had been commissioned and that it would consist of 14 episodes (13 plus a Christmas special); however, we didn't say it would run within the same calendar year. Likewise it has been mentioned that series 8 has been commissioned but we haven't made any official announcements concerning its scheduling.
They have now suggested I write to the BBC Trust and, you know what,that's exactly what I am going to do!
If anyone has links to statements the BBC has put out over the past few years which they think were misleading then please post them here and I'll use them in the submission.
You'll have seen my post about them claiming Eccleston left to nurse a family of sick kittens. That was bollocks that was. He left because he was a northern git with a northern hatred for southerners enjoying the show. Chip on his shoulder. Lord Leveson should uncover the truth here.
Good luck. I think the PR has been poor and it won't hurt them to know people ain't fooled by their nonsense. But I'm not convinced it's really a board of governors type of thing.
That 2011 "fourteen episodes all starring Matt" thing was downright insulting though. Cretins.
They already do. They read these forums and they read comments on pages like DS.
I meant about wanting more DW, more episodes.
My point was just if they want answers or attention from the BBC then they are doing the right thing, and twitter is another good platform. I don't really mind either way, I am just glad they got responses.
This chimes with me. Regardless that I think their PR has been laughably bad since 2011 it's not really a "man the barricades" kind of issue. Even though I think they are bad at it, I do know making telly is very hard and plans are forced to change. etc.
They don't owe us anything. If they say daft and untrue things I'll chat about it. Silly buggers.
But overall - Doctor Who is lovely. The BBC is one of the finest things invented by human civilisation and the Daily Mail and the Murdoch empire are beneath contempt.