I don't think it's a safe assumption that SCD requires the celebs to deliver authentic routines to the assigned dances.
SCD is a competition involving a series of tests. Delivering different characterisations is part of the examination process. It would be logical to task the celebs with delivering a stormy Tango, a romantic Rumba and a lustful AT.
Seems a good time to repeat the request I made when I first broached the subject of appropriate choreography - do we have any insiders here who know what the pros are told regarding choreography please?
I know nothing about what a 'proper'AT should look like, i only have the vincent/flavia 'strictly' versions to go by as a benchmark. Was looking fwd to last nights Greek version but failed to deliver on many levels imo, Jake was not sharp enough, the choreography missed the mark and not least ruined by the stupid backing dancer who bumped into Jake - watch tonights show and its highlighted, (and which Janette was clearly furious with based on her face when she came off the floor!)
Which assumes it was the backing dancer's fault. How can you be so sure it wasn't Jake (and Janette) who were not out of position meaning he/they were in the way when the professional backing dancer* bumped into them
* imho it's much more likely that a sleb got the positioning on the dance floor wrong than a dancer who will be very used to working with and around other dancers
Which assumes it was the backing dancer's fault. How can you be so sure it wasn't Jake (and Janette) who were not out of position meaning he/they were in the way when the professional backing dancer* bumped into them
* imho it's much more likely that a sleb got the positioning on the dance floor wrong than a dancer who will be very used to working with and around other dancers
1. The backing dancer is a professional so should be used to getting out of the way without appearing to do so
2. The backer went into the Jake / Janette front first. She should have seen the danger and taken subtle evasive action.
3. The backer was out of position on the backing dancers' arc. She was from the beginning of that sequence inside the curve made by the other three so likely to crash into J&J.
4. The main couple can never be out of position. The others are backing them and dance as appropriate.
5. In real AT there are always couples that unexpectedly stop or reverse and back into you so you have to take instant evasive but smooth and elegant action without it appearing to do so.
That's the problem with dancing to a choreography or giving a speech with written or memorised text. I wouldn't dream of doing either. When there is a problem there is a disaster.
In SCD celebs are learning to dance a set choreography rather than learning to dance. When there is an accident it is often difficult to recover. They have enough problems without having to cope with moving obstacles put there by the weird producers.
I stand by my opinion it was the backing dancer that was out of position not Jake and Janette. Not the sole reason the dance didn't work but certainly didn't help.
Which assumes it was the backing dancer's fault. How can you be so sure it wasn't Jake (and Janette) who were not out of position meaning he/they were in the way when the professional backing dancer* bumped into them
* imho it's much more likely that a sleb got the positioning on the dance floor wrong than a dancer who will be very used to working with and around other dancers
I have not run it back but I got the impression that he was further back than he should have been. Was it Craig who talked of the need for spatial awareness or something like that. Other celebrities manage it.
I thought it was a bit off for him to blame the backing dancer just now and not accept any responsibility. He could have easily made a much more neutral comment.
On a slightly different point- I think one can only go so far blaming Jake's poor performance on theme-ing and music choice. Frankie & Kevin managed to turn "Defying Gravity" into a pretty good tango during a theme week.
But then she is a very able dancer and he is a very talented choreographer,
On a slightly different point- I think one can only go so far blaming Jake's poor performance on theme-ing and music choice. Frankie & Kevin managed to turn "Defying Gravity" into a pretty good tango during a theme week.
But then she is a very able dancer and he is a very talented choreographer,
On the same point, I'd like to have seen (i.e. wouldn't have liked to one bit) Frankie and Kevin attempt to perform the identical AT, unchanged. I'd lay odds that it would still have looked dreadful. Better performed maybe but still dreadful.
I have not run it back but I got the impression that he was further back than he should have been. Was it Craig who talked of the need for spatial awareness or something like that. Other celebrities manage it.
I thought it was a bit off for him to blame the backing dancer just now and not accept any responsibility. He could have easily made a much more neutral comment.
Doesnt the need for spatial awareness also apply to the backing dancer as well, though?
As Henry said in his excellent explanation:
The main couple can never be out of position. The others are backing them an dance as appropriate.
I do think it was just a perfect storm of everything going wrong. The music was awful, the concept was awful, Jake was awful at the AT he did actually do, the backing dancers were a dreadful idea even before the stumble, the chorus line bit at the end, the shouting 'opa', the bit on his own at the beginning clapping his hands... it was quite possibly the most misguided thing I've ever seen on this show.
It appears that some pros are less resistant to the daft ideas of the producers than others. It was said after Blackpool that the couples had an hour with the extra dancers. I'd guess they had something similar this week. And that's probably the first time j&j were able to work on the greek parts. It's entirely possible that they replaced whatever j&j had been rehearsing all week. Had Janette been more assertive they might have said no, but maybe not so secure a cast member to dissent. Whatever happened, it was pretty clearly hinted on ITT and other pieces to camera that Jake was not confident that the Greek AT was going to work, that may have been because they knew there would be changes until the final rehearsal. And whatever else was obvious from that dance, it was clearly under rehearsed.
1. The backing dancer is a professional so should be used to getting out of the way without appearing to do so
2. The backer went into the Jake / Janette front first. She should have seen the danger and taken subtle evasive action.
3. The backer was out of position on the backing dancers' arc. She was from the beginning of that sequence inside the curve made by the other three so likely to crash into J&J.
4. The main couple can never be out of position. The others are backing them and dance as appropriate.
5. In real AT there are always couples that unexpectedly stop or reverse and back into you so you have to take instant evasive but smooth and elegant action without it appearing to do so.
That's the problem with dancing to a choreography or giving a speech with written or memorised text. I wouldn't dream of doing either. When there is a problem there is a disaster.
In SCD celebs are learning to dance a set choreography rather than learning to dance......
Harry McJudd I think it was,said somewhere that he had to explain to people, post SCD,that he couldn't just get up and dance like that.
Just like to say though,on a more positive note,that the bit starting around 41 secs where Janette drop splits to the accent in the music is just exquisite:)
On the same point, I'd like to have seen (i.e. wouldn't have liked to one bit) Frankie and Kevin attempt to perform the identical AT, unchanged. I'd lay odds that it would still have looked dreadful. Better performed maybe but still dreadful.
My point was, Kevin may well have choreographed something a lot better.
If another couple had come unstuck doing a tango to Defying Gravity, no doubt lots of people would have said "But it would have been impossible to do a good tango to that".
Going back to the title of this thread, Zorba the Greek was quite wrong as it is NOT in tango rhythm. Actually there are two legitimate rhythms for the tango - the 'Parisian rhythm' and the 'Argentine rhythm". Zorba is neither.
I write as the composer of published and commercially recorded tangos!
Going back to the title of this thread, Zorba the Greek was quite wrong as it is NOT in tango rhythm. Actually there are two legitimate rhythms for the tango - the 'Parisian rhythm' and the 'Argentine rhythm". Zorba is neither.
I write as the composer of published and commercially recorded tangos!
Never heard of Parisian rhythm. Maybe that is as used for Ballroom Tango?
This thread refers to the supposed Argentine Tango danced. There are three basic style of AT which go with three basic rhythms - Tango, Milonga (fast) and Vals (Waltz)
My point was, Kevin may well have choreographed something a lot better.
If another couple had come unstuck doing a tango to Defying Gravity, no doubt lots of people would have said "But it would have been impossible to do a good tango to that".
Difference is that AFAIK Defying Gravity does not come with an established dance style that is imposed on the couple.
There were only 7 seconds of Argentine Tango and those seconds were partially obscured by backing dancers dancing Sirtaki. The rest of the time 83 seconds they danced a sort of poor man's Sirtaki - as decreed by the producers.
Well if they had to have Greek music how about this?
I have just come across it and "led" a sitting down AT to it. Lots of changes in pace for decorations. No lifts of course. Dreamy sax does it almost as well as an accordion. Lovely.
Well if they had to have Greek music how about this?
I have just come across it and "led" a sitting down AT to it. Lots of changes in pace for decorations. No lifts of course. Dreamy sax does it almost as well as an accordion. Lovely.
Is that not Russian? Ignore m, getting my Cryllic & Greek alphabets muddled.
The script in that poster is Greek not Russian. There are similarities.
Saturday (as in "night fever" and as per the poster) in Greek is "Σάββατο" [easy if you studied maths ;-) ]
in Russia it is "Суббота" [easy if you have a Russian ex ;-) ]
Giorgos Bratanis (born August 29, 1977), better known by his artistic name "Cayetano"[1] is a greek musician. He performs with his band — Cayetano Live Band[2] — and as a DJ worldwide.
Seems a good time to repeat the request I made when I first broached the subject of appropriate choreography - do we have any insiders here who know what the pros are told regarding choreography please?
the tango was choreographed by a an Argentinian choreographer.
Apologies if this has already been asked and answered but what was it he kept shouting out? I'd love to know because it frightened the bejasus out of our dog and I wouldn't mind trying it out on the old moggy who keeps using my front garden as his personal toilet:)
I have a feeling it came from the film, which I haven't seen
Comments
SCD is a competition involving a series of tests. Delivering different characterisations is part of the examination process. It would be logical to task the celebs with delivering a stormy Tango, a romantic Rumba and a lustful AT.
Seems a good time to repeat the request I made when I first broached the subject of appropriate choreography - do we have any insiders here who know what the pros are told regarding choreography please?
Which assumes it was the backing dancer's fault. How can you be so sure it wasn't Jake (and Janette) who were not out of position meaning he/they were in the way when the professional backing dancer* bumped into them
* imho it's much more likely that a sleb got the positioning on the dance floor wrong than a dancer who will be very used to working with and around other dancers
Here is the incident for review
http://youtu.be/LfQiK-yU6xI?t=1m14s
1. The backing dancer is a professional so should be used to getting out of the way without appearing to do so
2. The backer went into the Jake / Janette front first. She should have seen the danger and taken subtle evasive action.
3. The backer was out of position on the backing dancers' arc. She was from the beginning of that sequence inside the curve made by the other three so likely to crash into J&J.
4. The main couple can never be out of position. The others are backing them and dance as appropriate.
5. In real AT there are always couples that unexpectedly stop or reverse and back into you so you have to take instant evasive but smooth and elegant action without it appearing to do so.
That's the problem with dancing to a choreography or giving a speech with written or memorised text. I wouldn't dream of doing either. When there is a problem there is a disaster.
In SCD celebs are learning to dance a set choreography rather than learning to dance. When there is an accident it is often difficult to recover. They have enough problems without having to cope with moving obstacles put there by the weird producers.
I have not run it back but I got the impression that he was further back than he should have been. Was it Craig who talked of the need for spatial awareness or something like that. Other celebrities manage it.
I thought it was a bit off for him to blame the backing dancer just now and not accept any responsibility. He could have easily made a much more neutral comment.
But then she is a very able dancer and he is a very talented choreographer,
On the same point, I'd like to have seen (i.e. wouldn't have liked to one bit) Frankie and Kevin attempt to perform the identical AT, unchanged. I'd lay odds that it would still have looked dreadful. Better performed maybe but still dreadful.
Doesnt the need for spatial awareness also apply to the backing dancer as well, though?
As Henry said in his excellent explanation:
The main couple can never be out of position. The others are backing them an dance as appropriate.
Rather persuasive argument.
Harry McJudd I think it was,said somewhere that he had to explain to people, post SCD,that he couldn't just get up and dance like that.
Just like to say though,on a more positive note,that the bit starting around 41 secs where Janette drop splits to the accent in the music is just exquisite:)
My point was, Kevin may well have choreographed something a lot better.
If another couple had come unstuck doing a tango to Defying Gravity, no doubt lots of people would have said "But it would have been impossible to do a good tango to that".
I write as the composer of published and commercially recorded tangos!
Never heard of Parisian rhythm. Maybe that is as used for Ballroom Tango?
This thread refers to the supposed Argentine Tango danced. There are three basic style of AT which go with three basic rhythms - Tango, Milonga (fast) and Vals (Waltz)
Difference is that AFAIK Defying Gravity does not come with an established dance style that is imposed on the couple.
There were only 7 seconds of Argentine Tango and those seconds were partially obscured by backing dancers dancing Sirtaki. The rest of the time 83 seconds they danced a sort of poor man's Sirtaki - as decreed by the producers.
I have just come across it and "led" a sitting down AT to it. Lots of changes in pace for decorations. No lifts of course. Dreamy sax does it almost as well as an accordion. Lovely.
Cayetano - Feel (Feat Valia)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDMHARLC6Ik
Is that not Russian? Ignore me, getting my Cryllic & Greek alphabets muddled.
The script in that poster is Greek not Russian. There are similarities.
Saturday (as in "night fever" and as per the poster) in Greek is "Σάββατο" [easy if you studied maths ;-) ]
in Russia it is "Суббота" [easy if you have a Russian ex ;-) ]
Giorgos Bratanis (born August 29, 1977), better known by his artistic name "Cayetano"[1] is a greek musician. He performs with his band — Cayetano Live Band[2] — and as a DJ worldwide.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cayetano_(Giorgos_Bratanis)
the tango was choreographed by a an Argentinian choreographer.
How do you know he was Argentinian ? Do you have inside knowledge ?
That doesn't help much. 95% of Argentines don't tango.
What was his or her name?
S/he would have been heavily influenced by the producers to deliver SCD style AT.
In any event AT is seldom choreographed so the concept of an Argentinian (AT) choreographer is odd.
Sorry, do not have his name or passport number, but you can rest assured that it was a male choreographer from Argentina.
What is your source?
I have a feeling it came from the film, which I haven't seen
He kept referring to The Falklands as "Las Malvinas"?