You're right that freedom and living standards are higher in Ireland than Venezuela. But the former hasn't spent the decades from the twenties to the end of the nineties ruled by tyrants who are puppets of the USA. Those with tunnel vision about any government that isn't right wing obviously can't, and refuse, to see that.
Yeah and Ireland spent from the time of Oliver Cromwell to the early 20th century ruled by the British crown, usually not very gently so every nation has I'd history of injustice.
And are you implying that Chavez wasn't a tyrant? In a way I'm looking forward to the final collapse of the regime so the truth will become known about what happened to those who were arrested for "treason" or "pro-American activities". This Is a career military guy who led an unsuccessful coup in 1992 and was quite prepared to use violence to achieve his aims. Are those with rose tinted tunnel vision about left-wing governments so naive as to think he wasn't equally prepared to use violence once in power?
According to the ECLAC, from 1999 to 2012, Venezuela achieved the second highest rate of poverty reduction in the region; with World Bank data showing that the poverty rate dropped from 49.4% to 25.6%.[7][8] The Bolivarian Missions have entailed the construction of thousands of free medical clinics for the poor,[9] the institution of educational campaigns,[10][11][12] and the enactment of housing subsidies.
We can see clearly now how meaningless these figures are when everyone is being paid in worthless monopoly money. The only thing that matters when an economy collapses is access to foreign currency and gold - which the poor do not have. As a result, they now have to spend every minute of every day thinking about how they are going to get their next meal, whereas the corrupt socialist elite continue to live the high life. But that sort of thing does not show up in the statistics.
Can I assume that your solution to Venezuela's problems would be something along the lines of jettisoning the market aspects of the "market based mixed economy" and nationalising everything. Then the economy would be centrally planned by the party faithful who really understand all the nuances of Sociailism.
Would be almost worth watching that just for the comedy value of watching the planners social engineering projects collapse. Unfortunately the people of Venezuela will find it less than amusing.
I am glad that you accept Venezuela is not a Socialist state, at least.
Yeah and Ireland spent from the time of Oliver Cromwell to the early 20th century ruled by the British crown, usually not very gently so every nation has I'd history of injustice.
And are you implying that Chavez wasn't a tyrant? In a way I'm looking forward to the final collapse of the regime so the truth will become known about what happened to those who were arrested for "treason" or "pro-American activities". This Is a career military guy who led an unsuccessful coup in 1992 and was quite prepared to use violence to achieve his aims. Are those with rose tinted tunnel vision about left-wing governments so naive as to think he wasn't equally prepared to use violence once in power?
Like the generals, businessmen and other members of the middle class who led a coup against the democratically elected Chavez in 2002, you mean?
We can see clearly now how meaningless these figures are when everyone is being paid in worthless monopoly money. The only thing that matters when an economy collapses is access to foreign currency and gold - which the poor do not have. As a result, they now have to spend every minute of every day thinking about how they are going to get their next meal, whereas the corrupt socialist elite continue to live the high life. But that sort of thing does not show up in the statistics.
No, not meaningless at all. With all his faults Chavez did significantly reduce the incidence of poverty in Venezuela during his period in power.
No, not meaningless at all. With all his faults Chavez did significantly reduce the incidence of poverty in Venezuela during his period in power.
No he didn't. He reduced the incidence of poverty when poverty is measured in terms of access to Bank of Toytown notes. As Venezeuelans are finding out is that this measure was worthless - what really matters when an economy is destroyed is access to hard currency.
No he didn't. He reduced the incidence of poverty when poverty is measured in terms of access to Bank of Toytown notes. As Venezeuelans are finding out is that this measure was worthless - what really matters when an economy is destroyed is access to hard currency.
Well, it's just as well I'm not measuring it in such terms then, isn't it?
I am glad that you accept Venezuela is not a Socialist state, at least.
I am accepting no such thing. I am paraphrasing a particularly tired and worn out sound bite. Venezuela IS an experiment in Socialism, the latest in a long inglorious line of such dismal failures.
I await the inevitable meltdown in Greece when the voters realise that Syriza has promised them the earth, but are only able to deliver a handfull of clay. What's your prediction for the exact point they run out of money? Six months? A year? Will they get as far as two years before the fiscal crisis?
I am accepting no such thing. I am paraphrasing a particularly tired and worn out sound bite. Venezuela IS an experiment in Socialism, the latest in a long inglorious line of such dismal failures.
I await the inevitable meltdown in Greece when the voters realise that Syriza has promised them the earth, but are only able to deliver a handfull of clay. What's your prediction for the exact point they run out of money? Six months? A year? Will they get as far as two years before the fiscal crisis?
Well, if it is it is an experiment that hasn't reached the application stage yet. Under Maduro I am not convinced that it ever will.
It has a market based mixed economy, by the way.
As for Greece, I have no doubt the bankers and their lackeys will do all they can to derail the democratic decision of the people. Democracy is only allowed in reality when the people go along with the Establishment.
Yeah and Ireland spent from the time of Oliver Cromwell to the early 20th century ruled by the British crown, usually not very gently so every nation has I'd history of injustice.
And are you implying that Chavez wasn't a tyrant? In a way I'm looking forward to the final collapse of the regime so the truth will become known about what happened to those who were arrested for "treason" or "pro-American activities". This Is a career military guy who led an unsuccessful coup in 1992 and was quite prepared to use violence to achieve his aims. Are those with rose tinted tunnel vision about left-wing governments so naive as to think he wasn't equally prepared to use violence once in power?
England and Scotland weren't thriving democracies in the 16th century! Since independence Ireland has determined its own destiny, but for Venezuela attempts by the USA to undermine it are an ever present threat. As for other Latin American countries, many of whom are asserting themselves in the face of US intimidation, including politicians of the right. Chavez was a trailblazer for indepence.
More triumphs for Bolivarian Socialism, comrades! After making small but temporary advances on the Toilet Paper Front, the forces of Socialism have decisively fought back on the Battle of Dental Hygiene. All our Pharmacies are now fully stocked with Toothpaste, Mouthwash and bottle of Pepsi Cola!!!!! We hope shortly to bring back toothbrushes as well. In the meantime, interim bottom-wiping restrictions are extended for another month. Learn to sit cross-legged for a while more!
In the meantime, comrades, please pay no attention to the rumour that patients in hospital are dying because there is no gauze, syringes, x-ray film or test tubes! These are lies put about by the lickspittle running dogs of capitalism!
t. As for other Latin American countries, many of whom are asserting themselves in the face of US intimidation, including politicians of the right. Chavez was a trailblazer for indepence.
Independence from toilet paper and potatoes, certainly.
More triumphs for Bolivarian Socialism, comrades! After making small but temporary advances on the Toilet Paper Front, the forces of Socialism have decisively fought back on the Battle of Dental Hygiene. All our Pharmacies are now fully stocked with Toothpaste, Mouthwash and bottle of Pepsi Cola!!!!! We hope shortly to bring back toothbrushes as well. In the meantime, interim bottom-wiping restrictions are extended for another month. Learn to sit cross-legged for a while more!
In the meantime, comrades, please pay no attention to the rumour that patients in hospital are dying because there is no gauze, syringes, x-ray film or test tubes! These are lies put about by the lickspittle running dogs of capitalism!
"Despite what the media say, Chávez is a leader who listens to his people. I'm happy to take up a new job as his urban adviser" - Ken Livingstone, 2008
It's incomprehensible, isn't it? Surely all you need to to make everyone rich is just print more money and hand it out to everyone? Voila! Instant equality! Everyone's a millionaire.
The good news is that at least one problem of Bolivarian Socialism will soon be solved, comrades!!! By my predictions, in about mid-March the price of a single sheet of toilet paper will intersect with the value of the smallest denomination bank-note!
We've had a nasty five years of a vindictive ideology in action here in the UK - even worse than New Labour's.
Hmm. I wonder how many UK citizens, currently "suffering" under David Cameron will gladly swap their place with a Venezuelan national currently suffering under Chavez's hand picked successor. And indeed vice versa.
Hmm. I wonder how many UK citizens, currently "suffering" under David Cameron will gladly swap their place with a Venezuelan national currently suffering under Chavez's hand picked successor. And indeed vice versa.
Are you going to be the trailblazer on this GGP?
You mean the person who was democratically elected by the people of Venezuela?
GGP do you really really really think that the election was open fair and above board?
Just like Mr Putin, and Mr Mugabe are regularly "elected" by their people?
Yes - a narrow victory. He probably will be voted out next time in my opinion.
Unlike Putin, who is extremely popular in Russia unfortunately and was elected by a massive majority. The opposition parties estimated afterwards that up to 10% of votes may have been cast his way due to media bias, voting irregularities etc, but even if all those had gone to the second placed candidate Putin would still have won by a mile.
As he is a Right winger I would have thought you would be a fan of his?
More triumphs for Bolivarian Socialism, comrades! After making small but temporary advances on the Toilet Paper Front, the forces of Socialism have decisively fought back on the Battle of Dental Hygiene. All our Pharmacies are now fully stocked with Toothpaste, Mouthwash and bottle of Pepsi Cola!!!!! We hope shortly to bring back toothbrushes as well. In the meantime, interim bottom-wiping restrictions are extended for another month. Learn to sit cross-legged for a while more!
In the meantime, comrades, please pay no attention to the rumour that patients in hospital are dying because there is no gauze, syringes, x-ray film or test tubes! These are lies put about by the lickspittle running dogs of capitalism!
While in Greece EU imposed austerity has produced wonderful results! Like people dying through delayed surgery and lack of medicines, which has lessened the bill to the health service!!
Comments
Yeah and Ireland spent from the time of Oliver Cromwell to the early 20th century ruled by the British crown, usually not very gently so every nation has I'd history of injustice.
And are you implying that Chavez wasn't a tyrant? In a way I'm looking forward to the final collapse of the regime so the truth will become known about what happened to those who were arrested for "treason" or "pro-American activities". This Is a career military guy who led an unsuccessful coup in 1992 and was quite prepared to use violence to achieve his aims. Are those with rose tinted tunnel vision about left-wing governments so naive as to think he wasn't equally prepared to use violence once in power?
We can see clearly now how meaningless these figures are when everyone is being paid in worthless monopoly money. The only thing that matters when an economy collapses is access to foreign currency and gold - which the poor do not have. As a result, they now have to spend every minute of every day thinking about how they are going to get their next meal, whereas the corrupt socialist elite continue to live the high life. But that sort of thing does not show up in the statistics.
I am glad that you accept Venezuela is not a Socialist state, at least.
Like the generals, businessmen and other members of the middle class who led a coup against the democratically elected Chavez in 2002, you mean?
No, not meaningless at all. With all his faults Chavez did significantly reduce the incidence of poverty in Venezuela during his period in power.
No he didn't. He reduced the incidence of poverty when poverty is measured in terms of access to Bank of Toytown notes. As Venezeuelans are finding out is that this measure was worthless - what really matters when an economy is destroyed is access to hard currency.
Well, it's just as well I'm not measuring it in such terms then, isn't it?
I am accepting no such thing. I am paraphrasing a particularly tired and worn out sound bite. Venezuela IS an experiment in Socialism, the latest in a long inglorious line of such dismal failures.
I await the inevitable meltdown in Greece when the voters realise that Syriza has promised them the earth, but are only able to deliver a handfull of clay. What's your prediction for the exact point they run out of money? Six months? A year? Will they get as far as two years before the fiscal crisis?
Well, if it is it is an experiment that hasn't reached the application stage yet. Under Maduro I am not convinced that it ever will.
It has a market based mixed economy, by the way.
As for Greece, I have no doubt the bankers and their lackeys will do all they can to derail the democratic decision of the people. Democracy is only allowed in reality when the people go along with the Establishment.
Thank you, you've answered for me.
England and Scotland weren't thriving democracies in the 16th century! Since independence Ireland has determined its own destiny, but for Venezuela attempts by the USA to undermine it are an ever present threat. As for other Latin American countries, many of whom are asserting themselves in the face of US intimidation, including politicians of the right. Chavez was a trailblazer for indepence.
In the meantime, comrades, please pay no attention to the rumour that patients in hospital are dying because there is no gauze, syringes, x-ray film or test tubes! These are lies put about by the lickspittle running dogs of capitalism!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/venezuela/11385294/Venezuelas-socialist-paradise-turns-into-a-nightmare-medical-shortages-claim-lives-as-oil-price-collapses.html
Independence from toilet paper and potatoes, certainly.
As ever it is the folks who suffer in the pursuit of ideology.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/venezuela/11385055/Seven-charts-showing-why-Venezuelas-economy-is-a-basket-case.html
Long live the Workers paradise. Coming soon to Greece and Spain.
"Despite what the media say, Chávez is a leader who listens to his people. I'm happy to take up a new job as his urban adviser" - Ken Livingstone, 2008
It's incomprehensible, isn't it? Surely all you need to to make everyone rich is just print more money and hand it out to everyone?
The good news is that at least one problem of Bolivarian Socialism will soon be solved, comrades!!! By my predictions, in about mid-March the price of a single sheet of toilet paper will intersect with the value of the smallest denomination bank-note!
Sure is.
We've had a nasty five years of a vindictive ideology in action here in the UK - even worse than New Labour's.
Indeed, I was reading this earlier today. Painful to watch them spiral so miserably.
Hmm. I wonder how many UK citizens, currently "suffering" under David Cameron will gladly swap their place with a Venezuelan national currently suffering under Chavez's hand picked successor. And indeed vice versa.
Are you going to be the trailblazer on this GGP?
You mean the person who was democratically elected by the people of Venezuela?
GGP do you really really really think that the election was open fair and above board?
Just like Mr Putin, and Mr Mugabe are regularly "elected" by their people?
Yes - a narrow victory. He probably will be voted out next time in my opinion.
Unlike Putin, who is extremely popular in Russia unfortunately and was elected by a massive majority. The opposition parties estimated afterwards that up to 10% of votes may have been cast his way due to media bias, voting irregularities etc, but even if all those had gone to the second placed candidate Putin would still have won by a mile.
As he is a Right winger I would have thought you would be a fan of his?
True, but even the Evil Banksters never took away our toilet paper.
While in Greece EU imposed austerity has produced wonderful results! Like people dying through delayed surgery and lack of medicines, which has lessened the bill to the health service!!