Despite huge natural resources Venezuela is close to becoming a failed state, the murder rate is the highest in the world and basic goods are often not available. Quite why you use such tame language is almost a mystery.
I wonder if anyone else can think of a reason you can't really criticise the United Socialist Party of Venezuela?
I have some Polish friends that went through similar in their childhood during the 1980's.
All of which suggests that the problem with Venezuela is corrupt leadership, which is a problem that many nations have, and which makes whether it's run according to socialist or capitalist economic rules irrelevant. No system works well (not for the majority anyway) if the system is corrupt.
All of which suggests that the problem with Venezuela is corrupt leadership, which is a problem that many nations have, and which makes whether it's run according to socialist or capitalist economic rules irrelevant. No system works well (not for the majority anyway) if the system is corrupt.
But every severely socialist country has turned out to be massively corrupt, could that not be cause and effect?
Again back to my Polish friends, back in the late 1980's one of them had an accident and rather than go to the local hospital they bribed their way into a military hospital because the treatment was better. Imagine that happening here.
But every severely socialist country has turned out to be massively corrupt, could that not be cause and effect?
Again back to my Polish friends, back in the late 1980's one of them had an accident and rather than go to the local hospital they bribed their way into a military hospital because the treatment was better. Imagine that happening here.
People paying to get better than the NHS? Not so hard to imagine as we already have that option available.
I don't agree that the treatment is necessarily better, but anyone can pay to jump waiting lists, get better accommodation and possibly treatments that aren't available on the NHS.
Just accept it its a Socialist government , I know that people like you find the truth hard to digest but it still doesn't change it Socialism doesn't work
Yes, it is a Socialist government adopting some measures of Socialism but it is not a Socialist economy.
Why can't you see the difference between the two?
For the umpteenth time it has a market-based mixed economy.
But every severely socialist country has turned out to be massively corrupt, could that not be cause and effect?
Again back to my Polish friends, back in the late 1980's one of them had an accident and rather than go to the local hospital they bribed their way into a military hospital because the treatment was better. Imagine that happening here.
No because those nations were usually corrupt before socialist parties were elected or gained power through revolution. What the socialist parties are guilty of is lying to the public in order to gain power by claiming to be against the very things that their opponents were up to, and then doing them themselves once elected.
Despite huge natural resources Venezuela is close to becoming a failed state, the murder rate is the highest in the world and basic goods are often not available. Quite why you use such tame language is almost a mystery.
I wonder if anyone else can think of a reason you can't really criticise the United Socialist Party of Venezuela?
The price of a barrel of oil has plummeted to around $60. Maduro considers $100 to be a fair price in order to stabilise Venezuelan finances, while the IMF considers it needs to be $120 to balance the Venezuelan budget.
As they are massively dependent on oil prices, what would you advise them to do, as they are so reliant on that market?
If a more Right wing government was elected next time how would you advise them to deal with the similar low prices, if any differently?
The price of a barrel of oil has plummeted to around $60. Maduro considers $100 to be a fair price in order to stabilise Venezuelan finances, while the IMF considers it needs to be $120 to balance the Venezuelan budget.
As they are massively dependent on oil prices, what would you advise them to do, as they are so reliant on that market?
If a more Right wing government was elected next time how would you advise them to deal with the similar low prices, if any differently?
Privatise any public assets and start blaming the poor for being poor and out of work. The right-wing way in other words: blame the person and not the system unless the system can be called socialist even when it isn't actually socialist...
Privatise any public assets and start blaming the poor for being poor and out of work. The right-wing way in other words: blame the person and not the system unless the system can be called socialist even when it isn't actually socialist...
The price of a barrel of oil has plummeted to around $60. Maduro considers $100 to be a fair price in order to stabilise Venezuelan finances, while the IMF considers it needs to be $120 to balance the Venezuelan budget.
As they are massively dependent on oil prices, what would you advise them to do, as they are so reliant on that market?
If a more Right wing government was elected next time how would you advise them to deal with the similar low prices, if any differently?
I guess that's the problem with many on the left, they don't consider saving money when things are going well to prepare for the tough times.
Mexico has had no event like WW2, and has vast oil reserves, yet extreme poverty is widespread and organized crime has made it more or less ungovernable. Is this a failure of capitalism?
Mexico's oil fields are becoming extremely difficult and expensive to develop, its output has dropped drastically because of this. Venezuela has not had these problems, yet it has begun to drop. Mexico has also been in the grips of virtual civil war between a corrupt government and the drug cartels for decades. Has Venezuela?
The price of a barrel of oil has plummeted to around $60. Maduro considers $100 to be a fair price in order to stabilise Venezuelan finances, while the IMF considers it needs to be $120 to balance the Venezuelan budget.
As they are massively dependent on oil prices, what would you advise them to do, as they are so reliant on that market?
If a more Right wing government was elected next time how would you advise them to deal with the similar low prices, if any differently?
At its peak price before the drop Venezuela was experiencing food shortages, an explosion in the crime rate, national unrest and an increasing government debt. Those have been exacerbated by the collapse, not created by it. The socialist government of Venezuela was running a huge debt during the good times, now those are over its system is collapsing. Sounds familiar.
All of which suggests that the problem with Venezuela is corrupt leadership, which is a problem that many nations have, and which makes whether it's run according to socialist or capitalist economic rules irrelevant. No system works well (not for the majority anyway) if the system is corrupt.
Yes, it has, but most of those countries don't have a vast natural resource that the whole world wants and has been riding high in the markets for decades. Venezuela has somehow become virtually bankrupt when it should have been riding the wave of a huge surplus to get it through the bad times. They have the largest reserves of oil in the world, yet they IMPORT petrol?
People paying to get better than the NHS? Not so hard to imagine as we already have that option available.
I don't agree that the treatment is necessarily better, but anyone can pay to jump waiting lists, get better accommodation and possibly treatments that aren't available on the NHS.
They pay insurance, they don't bung a Doctor a few hundred quid to get moved. That you appear to know the difference is a little worrying, the next time someone offers to supersize your burger for a pound more will you start thinking "They're asking for a bribe!".
No because those nations were usually corrupt before socialist parties were elected or gained power through revolution. What the socialist parties are guilty of is lying to the public in order to gain power by claiming to be against the very things that their opponents were up to, and then doing them themselves once elected.
Look at the USSR, set up from scratch.....and one of the most corrupt states in the world after only a few years.
At its peak price before the drop Venezuela was experiencing food shortages, an explosion in the crime rate, national unrest and an increasing government debt. Those have been exacerbated by the collapse, not created by it. The socialist government of Venezuela was running a huge debt during the good times, now those are over its system is collapsing. Sounds familiar.
Familiar? With what?
You think high crime rates, unrest and economic problems is restricted to V. in the Americas?
Do you not accept that during Chavez' tenure he made the lot of the poor in his country much better than it was before?
Look at the USSR, set up from scratch.....and one of the most corrupt states in the world after only a few years.
We are now in no true scotsman land, again.
Set up from scratch? It was formed from a country was still semi-feudal that had been ruled by autocrats for centuries up until a few months before. Oh, it was also in the middle of a catastrophic world war that killed more Russian combatants than in any other nation.
You think high crime rates, unrest and economic problems is restricted to V. in the Americas?
Do you not accept that during Chavez' tenure he made the lot of the poor in his country much better than it was before?
No it is not, but they don't have a vast natural resource that has given them a huge income for decades, which they have wasted. Also, the crime rate, unrest and economic problems have gotten WORSE over the last few years, BEFORE the price of oil collapsed. The life of the poor improved, now its going to get much, much worse (wonder if GGP will cut this quote out, ignore the rest of the post, and use it as proof that I've admitted something). Food shortages, crime rampant, medical shortages, importing petrol to an oil rich country, what an achievement for a state lauded by the likes of Owen Jones as being an example of how socialism works.
In fact, the likes of Brazil, despite having huge social problems, has a lower crime and inflation rate than Venezuela AND doesn't have food rationing.
Are you going to FINALLY answer my question by the way? What massive disaster precluded Venezeula's change to rationing, as WW2 did to the UK's adoption of the same system? I mean, it started BEFORE oil dropped, so it can't be that.
Set up from scratch? It was formed from a country was still semi-feudal that had been ruled by autocrats for centuries up until a few months before. Oh, it was also in the middle of a catastrophic world war that killed more Russian combatants than in any other nation.
But not as many as the Soviet Union went on to kill in the gulags ;-)
The Spanish and Portuguese ripped the soul out of south america and left the place fractured, politically, culturally, socially and economically.
When there is desperation, that is usually a breeding ground for extreme leftists. Brazil is run by former marxist terrorists from top to bottom - the corruption is mind blowing. Colombia has been in civil war since the 1960s, Paraguay's economy is based on selling fake goods, Uruaguay cleans stolen money for the rest of the continent.. etc etc
No it is not, but they don't have a vast natural resource that has given them a huge income for decades, which they have wasted. Also, the crime rate, unrest and economic problems have gotten WORSE over the last few years, BEFORE the price of oil collapsed. The life of the poor improved, now its going to get much, much worse (wonder if GGP will cut this quote out, ignore the rest of the post, and use it as proof that I've admitted something). Food shortages, crime rampant, medical shortages, importing petrol to an oil rich country, what an achievement for a state lauded by the likes of Owen Jones as being an example of how socialism works.
In fact, the likes of Brazil, despite having huge social problems, has a lower crime and inflation rate than Venezuela AND doesn't have food rationing.
Are you going to FINALLY answer my question by the way? What massive disaster precluded Venezeula's change to rationing, as WW2 did to the UK's adoption of the same system? I mean, it started BEFORE oil dropped, so it can't be that.
I've already answered it - government mismanagement, social unrest and falling revenues.
When are you going to admit that your earlier ludicrous statement that the people of Venezuela are "starving" is utterly incorrect?
The lot of the poor may get worse because V. is a market based economy - they are dependent on oil revenue for most government spending. It is my view that the government should try and focus its efforts on reducing its complete reliance on this market, by investing more in agriculture and the like. But they can only do this when the oil price rises again.
I don't have much faith in Maduro, who seems to be turning to more nationalist policies in attempts to bolster his popularity (or current lack of it).
Maybe it would have been better if the true Socialists, the PCV, had more influence in the coalition. We could have had something nearer proper Socialism then.
The Spanish and Portuguese ripped the soul out of south america and left the place fractured, politically, culturally, socially and economically.
When there is desperation, that is usually a breeding ground for extreme leftists. Brazil is run by former marxist terrorists from top to bottom - the corruption is mind blowing. Colombia has been in civil war since the 1960s, Paraguay's economy is based on selling fake goods, Uruaguay cleans stolen money for the rest of the continent.. etc etc
Yes, it has, but most of those countries don't have a vast natural resource that the whole world wants and has been riding high in the markets for decades. Venezuela has somehow become virtually bankrupt when it should have been riding the wave of a huge surplus to get it through the bad times. They have the largest reserves of oil in the world, yet they IMPORT petrol?
That's misleading, as I understood it, not all oil is suitable for petrol, so actually all of the UK's petrol is imported, even though we have an oil supply.
Isn't that the Country in the Caribbean where its people jump into any old leaky bucket (although a guy did try it on a windsurfer the other month) and sail across the Gulf of Mexico to get to the eeeeevil empire (aka Capitalist America)
And it Cuba is such an great example of the successes of Socialism why do they do all they can to prevent their people from leaving by force?
People always move from poor countries, like Mexico for example, to rich countries, like the USA. And from Algeria to the "socialist" France.
Comments
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/09/venezuela-protest-food-shortages
http://www.care2.com/causes/venezuela-is-paying-off-oil-debts-while-people-starve.html
http://www.businessinsider.com/venezuela-food-shortage-2013-1?IR=T
I have some Polish friends that went through similar in their childhood during the 1980's.
All of which suggests that the problem with Venezuela is corrupt leadership, which is a problem that many nations have, and which makes whether it's run according to socialist or capitalist economic rules irrelevant. No system works well (not for the majority anyway) if the system is corrupt.
But every severely socialist country has turned out to be massively corrupt, could that not be cause and effect?
Again back to my Polish friends, back in the late 1980's one of them had an accident and rather than go to the local hospital they bribed their way into a military hospital because the treatment was better. Imagine that happening here.
People paying to get better than the NHS? Not so hard to imagine as we already have that option available.
I don't agree that the treatment is necessarily better, but anyone can pay to jump waiting lists, get better accommodation and possibly treatments that aren't available on the NHS.
Yes, it is a Socialist government adopting some measures of Socialism but it is not a Socialist economy.
Why can't you see the difference between the two?
For the umpteenth time it has a market-based mixed economy.
No because those nations were usually corrupt before socialist parties were elected or gained power through revolution. What the socialist parties are guilty of is lying to the public in order to gain power by claiming to be against the very things that their opponents were up to, and then doing them themselves once elected.
The price of a barrel of oil has plummeted to around $60. Maduro considers $100 to be a fair price in order to stabilise Venezuelan finances, while the IMF considers it needs to be $120 to balance the Venezuelan budget.
As they are massively dependent on oil prices, what would you advise them to do, as they are so reliant on that market?
If a more Right wing government was elected next time how would you advise them to deal with the similar low prices, if any differently?
Privatise any public assets and start blaming the poor for being poor and out of work. The right-wing way in other words: blame the person and not the system unless the system can be called socialist even when it isn't actually socialist...
Spot on!!
I guess that's the problem with many on the left, they don't consider saving money when things are going well to prepare for the tough times.
Mexico's oil fields are becoming extremely difficult and expensive to develop, its output has dropped drastically because of this. Venezuela has not had these problems, yet it has begun to drop. Mexico has also been in the grips of virtual civil war between a corrupt government and the drug cartels for decades. Has Venezuela?
At its peak price before the drop Venezuela was experiencing food shortages, an explosion in the crime rate, national unrest and an increasing government debt. Those have been exacerbated by the collapse, not created by it. The socialist government of Venezuela was running a huge debt during the good times, now those are over its system is collapsing. Sounds familiar.
Yes, it has, but most of those countries don't have a vast natural resource that the whole world wants and has been riding high in the markets for decades. Venezuela has somehow become virtually bankrupt when it should have been riding the wave of a huge surplus to get it through the bad times. They have the largest reserves of oil in the world, yet they IMPORT petrol?
They pay insurance, they don't bung a Doctor a few hundred quid to get moved. That you appear to know the difference is a little worrying, the next time someone offers to supersize your burger for a pound more will you start thinking "They're asking for a bribe!".
Look at the USSR, set up from scratch.....and one of the most corrupt states in the world after only a few years.
We are now in no true scotsman land, again.
Familiar? With what?
You think high crime rates, unrest and economic problems is restricted to V. in the Americas?
Do you not accept that during Chavez' tenure he made the lot of the poor in his country much better than it was before?
Set up from scratch? It was formed from a country was still semi-feudal that had been ruled by autocrats for centuries up until a few months before. Oh, it was also in the middle of a catastrophic world war that killed more Russian combatants than in any other nation.
No it is not, but they don't have a vast natural resource that has given them a huge income for decades, which they have wasted. Also, the crime rate, unrest and economic problems have gotten WORSE over the last few years, BEFORE the price of oil collapsed. The life of the poor improved, now its going to get much, much worse (wonder if GGP will cut this quote out, ignore the rest of the post, and use it as proof that I've admitted something). Food shortages, crime rampant, medical shortages, importing petrol to an oil rich country, what an achievement for a state lauded by the likes of Owen Jones as being an example of how socialism works.
In fact, the likes of Brazil, despite having huge social problems, has a lower crime and inflation rate than Venezuela AND doesn't have food rationing.
Are you going to FINALLY answer my question by the way? What massive disaster precluded Venezeula's change to rationing, as WW2 did to the UK's adoption of the same system? I mean, it started BEFORE oil dropped, so it can't be that.
But not as many as the Soviet Union went on to kill in the gulags ;-)
When there is desperation, that is usually a breeding ground for extreme leftists. Brazil is run by former marxist terrorists from top to bottom - the corruption is mind blowing. Colombia has been in civil war since the 1960s, Paraguay's economy is based on selling fake goods, Uruaguay cleans stolen money for the rest of the continent.. etc etc
I've already answered it - government mismanagement, social unrest and falling revenues.
When are you going to admit that your earlier ludicrous statement that the people of Venezuela are "starving" is utterly incorrect?
The lot of the poor may get worse because V. is a market based economy - they are dependent on oil revenue for most government spending. It is my view that the government should try and focus its efforts on reducing its complete reliance on this market, by investing more in agriculture and the like. But they can only do this when the oil price rises again.
I don't have much faith in Maduro, who seems to be turning to more nationalist policies in attempts to bolster his popularity (or current lack of it).
Maybe it would have been better if the true Socialists, the PCV, had more influence in the coalition. We could have had something nearer proper Socialism then.
You forgot to include Fascists.
That's misleading, as I understood it, not all oil is suitable for petrol, so actually all of the UK's petrol is imported, even though we have an oil supply.
Whose forcing banks to lend to them?
People always move from poor countries, like Mexico for example, to rich countries, like the USA. And from Algeria to the "socialist" France.