Average schools vs outstanding schools

TwilkesTwilkes Posts: 68
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Overheard a conversation about a local primary school that had enough pupils for 3 Primary 1 classes, but by the time they got to Primary 7 there was only enough pupils left to make up one class. This is because the ambitious/motivated/pushy parents would move their kids into the feeder primary schools for the best secondary schools, rather than sending them to the local secondary school because it was ‘rubbish’.

Leaving aside whether the school is indeed rubbish or not, surely one of the reasons why it might be rubbish is because all the ‘best’ kids get shipped out to the ‘best’ secondary schools, thus reinforcing the differential.

So how bad is the average secondary school? If you had decent kids and sent them to an average secondary school, would they not still be able to build decent lives for themselves? Or do they get dragged down into the mud with all the dregs?

Comments

  • MagnamundianMagnamundian Posts: 2,359
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    I don't have any experience in this field, other than to say when I was a local councillor (years ago) if a school was rated as "good" that meant average, and "satisfactory" meant the school achieved the absolute minimum.

    I don't know if the average parent realises that, but I wouldn't blame them for targetting 'Outstanding' schools on that basis.
  • TheTruth1983TheTruth1983 Posts: 13,462
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    Around here, the best schools are religious schools so you have the ludicrous position where parents are baptising their kids just so they can get into the best primary schools which are feeders for the best secondary/grammar schools.
  • blueisthecolourblueisthecolour Posts: 20,127
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    I have a lot of friends that are teachers and from my own experiences I think there are a number of important differences between 'good' and 'average' schools. it's not just coincidence that certain schools score much higher on tests results every year.

    A lot of it does have to do with the number of 'disruptive' students you have in classrooms and the teachers ability to deal with them. I personally was very good at certain subjects however I notably did badly in classes where the teacher was not capable of keeping order. I remember that in the first year of my business studies GCSE I ended up with a 'U' in the mocks, the teacher was then replaced and I got a 'C' in my final exam.

    The top schools remain top because there is a self filtering mechanism that means these students don't go there; and the ones that do 'sneak' through are so few in numbers that they are easy to target and manage. The difference between a classroom of children that are at least half interested and one where a few kids are causing problems is massive.

    This whole issue though is clouded by the 'my child is special' mentality that is common amongst middle class parents. Everyone believe that there child is above average intelligence (which is obviously impossible) and so everyone believes that their kid need to be in a selective school where the talent can be developed. This leads to support for the Grammar school system as everyone secretly believes that their kid could get in as long as they give them enough private tutoring. Of course they can't so you end up with parents desperately trying to find a 'decent' comprehensive.
  • allaortaallaorta Posts: 19,050
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    Twilkes wrote: »
    Overheard a conversation about a local primary school that had enough pupils for 3 Primary 1 classes, but by the time they got to Primary 7 there was only enough pupils left to make up one class. This is because the ambitious/motivated/pushy parents would move their kids into the feeder primary schools for the best secondary schools, rather than sending them to the local secondary school because it was ‘rubbish’.

    Leaving aside whether the school is indeed rubbish or not, surely one of the reasons why it might be rubbish is because all the ‘best’ kids get shipped out to the ‘best’ secondary schools, thus reinforcing the differential.

    So how bad is the average secondary school? If you had decent kids and sent them to an average secondary school, would they not still be able to build decent lives for themselves? Or do they get dragged down into the mud with all the dregs?

    You can't leave anything aside. If the authorities won't stream kids, if classes are going to consist of too many non-English speaking kids, then the parents are going to do the screening. The fact the authorities don't see it that way only goes to show what a piss-poor bunch of numpties we have running our administrative processes.
  • Ethel_FredEthel_Fred Posts: 34,127
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    Outstanding - whatever the current bee in the bonnet of the minister of education

    Failing - whatever the current bee in the bonnet of the minister of education
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