I notice that there was no answer to the following simple question.I don't see the difference between getting specific training for a role and getting it for a song. Indeed, a pop band like S-CLUB 7 was largely based on dance records and their live show (probably 2 hours long) would have been full of them. Similarly Girls Aloud. Now if it doesn't matter that Rachel Stevens and Kimberley Walsh have received significant non ballroom and Latin dancing training as part of their day jobs, why exactly does it matter that Denise Van Outen has?
I think Denise's major problem is that a significant number of people were pre-disposed not to like her, and not matter what she said or did, she was doomed to be criticised for it.
Uhhh... can we agree Denise was actually good in the dances she did? The only real criticism I've read is that her hips didn't move much in the rumba and maybe not the cha cha either. Yes, she was mainly very good to excellent. Technically more consistent than everyone else.
Then there's the matter of her misrepresenting her dance experience with the collusion of the BBC. Maybe they thought she was so sexy they just had to have her. Whatever. To those who try to dismiss her performance school/west end background as not very relevant to dance, is the retort that it is a hell of an advantage to stay consistently in touch with your body and learning moves compared to sitting on the sofa at GMTV and reading the autocue.
Then there's the matter of whether people like her or not. I did. She came across as good humoured and unpretentious. Some women seemed to react against her though, as if she was too much 'down with the guys' and a cheat anyway. But there is evidence it wouldn't have made a difference anyway....
There's the matter of her opposition. Women dominate the audience in the studio and in the telephone vote they cast 80% of them. Hunky, modest trier Louis would have had to fall flat on his face not to win but in the end he came up with the right kind of sentimental performance at the right time, even though emotion was not his forte.
There's the fact that Denise came second, beating two other women in the final. This might just mean that the viewers didn't view her as a Pol Pot figure even if you do.
Of course if you want to diss each other instead, then have fun for another 8 months till the next instalment.
Uhhh... can we agree Denise was actually good in the dances she did? The only real criticism I've read is that her hips didn't move much in the rumba and maybe not the cha cha either. Yes, she was mainly very good to excellent. Technically more consistent than everyone else.
Oh no, her Latin apart from the jive & Charleston was shocking. Car crash cha cha, dire salsa that was going wrong way before James forgot the routine, overwrought but still massively boring rumba. They all had shocking technique & she didn't capture the atmosphere for any of the dances. I was surprised how bad they were for a supposedly trained dancer. Her rubbish latin was probably unwittingly her best defence against the ringer claim!
Disclaimer: Don't give a fig about her training, although it did annoy me how she belittled the amount dancing required for the role of Roxie, not because of how it reflected on her, but how it plays down the efforts of everyone else who plays the role and does a whole lot more than just sitting on a chair.
I notice that there was no answer to the following simple question.I don't see the difference between getting specific training for a role and getting it for a song. Indeed, a pop band like S-CLUB 7 was largely based on dance records and their live show (probably 2 hours long) would have been full of them. Similarly Girls Aloud. Now if it doesn't matter that Rachel Stevens and Kimberley Walsh have received significant non ballroom and Latin dancing training as part of their day jobs, why exactly does it matter that Denise Van Outen has?
For me, it feels different. And this is my perspective :cool:
A pop song video is not live and in front of an audience. It's celluloid, retakes, edits and trick shots, cut and spliced to make the singer look as good as possible. Go to a live concert and the "dancing" is step to the left, step to the right, turn round, walk six steps, sit on a stool, wait for a key change and stand.
A live West End or Broadway show especially if you're star in a lead role (and it's your photograph on the billboard outside) needs more than just a bit of choreography and how to sit on a stool. You need to know about posture, extensions, lines all the things the SCD judges pick up on that take a routine from good to fab-u-lous. You also need to know how to hide/bluff your way through if you or your partner forgets the steps and on top of all that know how to dance.
And lastly if Denise had only been a passable dancer then why did she go to Broadway. If it was her name that was used to bring in the customers, I can it it working in the UK but not in America where she was an unknown and would the backers of Chicago really risk millions of £/$ on a lead who couldn't dance?
Its not her fault though that people know about her and even basic research on anyone else just isn't done. In this series you had other people who also claim skills - including in Ballet, Aerobics, Cabaret Dancing,..Contemporary Dance, . Cheer Leading,...Freestyle Dance, Jazz Dancing, and Tap - with the same level of training. You also had many whose CVs are not visible at all whose skills and training are still unknowns.
And its just not clear what you can do about if you attract attention for being supposedly too skilled. In many cases it doesn't matter, and no one will note even if you have 3 years of drama school training including dance. If a much lower level of training is noticed, however, there's no way out of it. If you downplay the experience, you look as if you are hiding something. If you admit it, you feed the argument. If your vote suffers and you react , you look desperate and defensive. If you let the unfairness of the situation get to you, you look less happy and more defensive. Its true they mishandled it, its not at all clear how they could have done better.
It's simple, really. Be open and honest about your experience from the beginning.
They are here simply to make personal comments. These are not fans or supporters.They add nothing to the actual discussion. These few posters are here attempting to make witty and clever put-downs purely for their own self-gratification. That is the reason these self-elected forum monitors with their faux air of the morally superior keep coming back.
The thread/s continued thoughout SCD and beyond because Denise has done/said some absurd things/comments:
I just sat on a chair
Joined the tour of SCD. A few weeks later said that after the SCD final that she was never going to dance again.
Andrew Lloyd-Webber, Johnny Vaughan and Chris Evans tried to ruin my career.
The 'I just sat on a chair,' comment was cretinous and quite rightly drew the negative and mocking attention it deserved. Will she ever live it down? And for those of you who are going to see the tour; DVO has now given up dancing! Perhaps she will be sitting on a sofa! :rolleyes::D
There have been many contestants over the years who, on reaching the final, say "this will be the last time I dance with XXX" when they are going to be on the tour with the same partner. In this, Denise is definitely not the first.
There have been many contestants over the years who, on reaching the final, say "this will be the last time I dance with XXX" when they are going to be on the tour with the same partner. In this, Denise is definitely not the first.
That's not what she said though.
STRICTLY finalist Denise Van Outen says she will leave the dancing to her young daughter Betsy once the show is over.
She told TV Biz: “The problem with dancing with someone as talented as James Jordan is that nobody else will be as good as a partner.
“So I don’t really want to carry on dancing after the show finishes
Possibly my definition of passive aggressive won't suit you, but accusing another FM of bad behaviour (despite admitting yourself that you have picked on other FMs-see your own post yesterday at 23.28), then blithely refusing to provide any evidence because not everyone reads and memorises every post just about covers it for me
Really? Well maybe you might want to consider the tone of your own posts. I have to laugh - what was it that we're told - it's the "same posters" who go on. All happy to sit and watch bad FM behaviour but then have the audacity to complain about me being rude when I'm defending myself!!! The word "insulting" is bandied about on this forum for anybody who doesn't put up with the handful of posters who are self-appointed monitors telling posters that they are wrong yet ask for evidence constantly - the words "ironic and hypocrite" other words bandied about when, again, a poster defends their beliefs. As for what you've said about having better things to do rather than read through threads... "well that just about covers it for me" - when defending my posts, I'm not going to go through and quote every post (it would take me a while) where certain posters can't stick to debating without throwing out the personal insults. In fact, I wonder why the moderators aren't doing anything about it - perhaps they've got better things to do.
For me, it feels different. And this is my perspective :cool:
A pop song video is not live and in front of an audience. It's celluloid, retakes, edits and trick shots, cut and spliced to make the singer look as good as possible. Go to a live concert and the "dancing" is step to the left, step to the right, turn round, walk six steps, sit on a stool, wait for a key change and stand.
A live West End or Broadway show especially if you're star in a lead role (and it's your photograph on the billboard outside) needs more than just a bit of choreography and how to sit on a stool. You need to know about posture, extensions, lines all the things the SCD judges pick up on that take a routine from good to fab-u-lous. You also need to know how to hide/bluff your way through if you or your partner forgets the steps and on top of all that know how to dance.
And lastly if Denise had only been a passable dancer then why did she go to Broadway. If it was her name that was used to bring in the customers, I can it it working in the UK but not in America where she was an unknown and would the backers of Chicago really risk millions of £/$ on a lead who couldn't dance?
Even Alex, Rachel's husband said that at the time when she was dancing! Looking at Denise's dances, it was clear she had more rhythm especially in the Jive - it was like watching a professional dancer which is why I couldn't get fazed by her. She outdanced James most of the time unless she was getting her show caught in her dress.
Celebs do say they are sad when it's their last dance on the show with their pro partner. They say this quite often on the show. Densie didn't do that. She went to a national newsaper and said that after the show she wouldn't be dancing anymore because James was so wonderful and she didn't want to dance with anyone else.
But she is dancing again, on the tour, with James! She had signed for the tour before she said all that rubbish in the papers about not dancing again.
IMO there is a difference. In your opinion there isn't a difference. That's fair enough. We can agree to disagree.
Celebs do say they are sad when it's their last dance on the show with their pro partner. They say this quite often on the show. Densie didn't do that. She went to a national newsaper and said that after the show she wouldn't be dancing anymore because James was so wonderful and she didn't want to dance with anyone else.
But she is dancing again, on the tour, with James! She had signed for the tour before she said all that rubbish in the papers about not dancing again.
IMO there is a difference. In your opinion there isn't a difference. That's fair enough. We can agree to disagree.
Maybe she's counting the tour as being part of the show? It's an extension of the series and she's dancing with the same partner. Her main point in the article seems to be that she doesn't want to dance after the show finished because she doesn't want to dance with anyone but James because he's so fabulous (no accounting for taste but there we go ). Well the tour is linked to the show and she's still dancing with James. If she comes back in future series/tours and dances with someone else then you might, just might, have a point with this one (and I'm not ruling that out at all). At the moment? Not so much.
Maybe for Denise the tour still counts as Strictly. I know it's a separate show to the extent that she had to sign a separate contract but she'll still be dancing the same dances with the same partner so I could see her thinking in terms of it being more of a continuation of the show than a new thing that involved more dancing.
Maybe she's counting the tour as being part of the show? It's an extension of the series and she's dancing with the same partner. Her main point in the article seems to be that she doesn't want to dance after the show finished because she doesn't want to dance with anyone but James because he's so fabulous (no accounting for taste but there we go ). Well the tour is linked to the show and she's still dancing with James. If she comes back in future series/tours and dances with someone else then you might, just might, have a point with this one (and I'm not ruling that out at all). At the moment? Not so much.
Denise Van Outen says she'll quit dancing after Strictly Come Dancing 2012 final
Denise Van Outen will hang up her dancing shoes after 'Strictly Come Dancing'.
The TV presenter - who is competing against Olympian Louis Smith, 'Tracy Beaker' actress Dani Harmer and Girls Aloud singer Kimberley Walsh - has vowed to leave dancing to her two-year-old daughter Betsy once Saturday's live final (22.12.12) is over.
Lee has been brilliant because after being in Any Dream Will Do, he knows exactly what this is like — particularly how long the hours are.
“Last week I came in so late. I dropped my bags and just wailed: ‘I’m so tired’.
“But he has been so good with me, running baths and making dinners. “I can’t wait to spend more time with him when the show finishes because we have spent such a lot of time apart.”
Really? Well maybe you might want to consider the tone of your own posts. I have to laugh - what was it that we're told - it's the "same posters" who go on. All happy to sit and watch bad FM behaviour but then have the audacity to complain about me being rude when I'm defending myself!!! The word "insulting" is bandied about on this forum for anybody who doesn't put up with the handful of posters who are self-appointed monitors telling posters that they are wrong yet ask for evidence constantly - the words "ironic and hypocrite" other words bandied about when, again, a poster defends their beliefs. As for what you've said about having better things to do rather than read through threads... "well that just about covers it for me" - when defending my posts, I'm not going to go through and quote every post (it would take me a while) where certain posters can't stick to debating without throwing out the personal insults. In fact, I wonder why the moderators aren't doing anything about it - perhaps they've got better things to do.
I'd recommend Valium, a nice cup of tea and a lie down. I wouldn't worry too much. Show is over now. Best to let go while you can.
If she really wants another child, perhaps someone should remind her about the birds and the bees?
Denise wasn't at a 'Star Studded bash' - she was waiting for a night flight to Dubai with her parents and daughter (she tweeted from the airport - obviously, the journalist didn't think to actually check Denise's twitter to find out what she was doing). Lee wasn't alone - he tweeted that he was planning on meeting a friend and going out for NYE (he's currently in panto, hence not going to Dubai with Denise and family).
Agree. James is a poor dancer, conceited and probably only hired as he and his wife come as a pair and she is popular and pulls in male votes.
Okay, I know I'm not a bloke but I'm starting to go off Ola too. I feel (and again this is a purely personal observation) she is starting to act like James. :eek:
Daisyflower - Are you my stalker? You're darting about the different threads as much as I am! I only wish I'd discovered D.S. weeks ago when I was in the depths of despair over Louis being undermarked and humiliated. :):cry::):cry::)
Daisyflower - Are you my stalker? You're darting about the different threads as much as I am! I only wish I'd discovered D.S. weeks ago when I was in the depths of despair over Louis being undermarked and humiliated. :):cry::):cry::)
Oh my, it does seem that way, doesn't it!
I'm just going through Strictly (and Louis) withdrawal at the moment and you do seem to be the only one left who still chats about him.
I'm a bit shy about joining his appreciation thread. They seem such a close knit group.
Comments
Then there's the matter of her misrepresenting her dance experience with the collusion of the BBC. Maybe they thought she was so sexy they just had to have her. Whatever. To those who try to dismiss her performance school/west end background as not very relevant to dance, is the retort that it is a hell of an advantage to stay consistently in touch with your body and learning moves compared to sitting on the sofa at GMTV and reading the autocue.
Then there's the matter of whether people like her or not. I did. She came across as good humoured and unpretentious. Some women seemed to react against her though, as if she was too much 'down with the guys' and a cheat anyway. But there is evidence it wouldn't have made a difference anyway....
There's the matter of her opposition. Women dominate the audience in the studio and in the telephone vote they cast 80% of them. Hunky, modest trier Louis would have had to fall flat on his face not to win but in the end he came up with the right kind of sentimental performance at the right time, even though emotion was not his forte.
There's the fact that Denise came second, beating two other women in the final. This might just mean that the viewers didn't view her as a Pol Pot figure even if you do.
Of course if you want to diss each other instead, then have fun for another 8 months till the next instalment.
Oh no, her Latin apart from the jive & Charleston was shocking. Car crash cha cha, dire salsa that was going wrong way before James forgot the routine, overwrought but still massively boring rumba. They all had shocking technique & she didn't capture the atmosphere for any of the dances. I was surprised how bad they were for a supposedly trained dancer. Her rubbish latin was probably unwittingly her best defence against the ringer claim!
Disclaimer: Don't give a fig about her training, although it did annoy me how she belittled the amount dancing required for the role of Roxie, not because of how it reflected on her, but how it plays down the efforts of everyone else who plays the role and does a whole lot more than just sitting on a chair.
For me, it feels different. And this is my perspective :cool:
A pop song video is not live and in front of an audience. It's celluloid, retakes, edits and trick shots, cut and spliced to make the singer look as good as possible. Go to a live concert and the "dancing" is step to the left, step to the right, turn round, walk six steps, sit on a stool, wait for a key change and stand.
A live West End or Broadway show especially if you're star in a lead role (and it's your photograph on the billboard outside) needs more than just a bit of choreography and how to sit on a stool. You need to know about posture, extensions, lines all the things the SCD judges pick up on that take a routine from good to fab-u-lous. You also need to know how to hide/bluff your way through if you or your partner forgets the steps and on top of all that know how to dance.
And lastly if Denise had only been a passable dancer then why did she go to Broadway. If it was her name that was used to bring in the customers, I can it it working in the UK but not in America where she was an unknown and would the backers of Chicago really risk millions of £/$ on a lead who couldn't dance?
It's simple, really. Be open and honest about your experience from the beginning.
There have been many contestants over the years who, on reaching the final, say "this will be the last time I dance with XXX" when they are going to be on the tour with the same partner. In this, Denise is definitely not the first.
That's not what she said though.
Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/tv/strictly_come_dancing/4704620/Strictlys-Denise-Van-Outen-vows-to-hang-up-her-dancing-shoes.html#ixzz2HCLUrpaw
What's the difference??!!
Have you run out of hairs to split?
Really? Well maybe you might want to consider the tone of your own posts. I have to laugh - what was it that we're told - it's the "same posters" who go on. All happy to sit and watch bad FM behaviour but then have the audacity to complain about me being rude when I'm defending myself!!! The word "insulting" is bandied about on this forum for anybody who doesn't put up with the handful of posters who are self-appointed monitors telling posters that they are wrong yet ask for evidence constantly - the words "ironic and hypocrite" other words bandied about when, again, a poster defends their beliefs. As for what you've said about having better things to do rather than read through threads... "well that just about covers it for me" - when defending my posts, I'm not going to go through and quote every post (it would take me a while) where certain posters can't stick to debating without throwing out the personal insults. In fact, I wonder why the moderators aren't doing anything about it - perhaps they've got better things to do.
Even Alex, Rachel's husband said that at the time when she was dancing! Looking at Denise's dances, it was clear she had more rhythm especially in the Jive - it was like watching a professional dancer which is why I couldn't get fazed by her. She outdanced James most of the time unless she was getting her show caught in her dress.
Celebs do say they are sad when it's their last dance on the show with their pro partner. They say this quite often on the show. Densie didn't do that. She went to a national newsaper and said that after the show she wouldn't be dancing anymore because James was so wonderful and she didn't want to dance with anyone else.
But she is dancing again, on the tour, with James! She had signed for the tour before she said all that rubbish in the papers about not dancing again.
IMO there is a difference. In your opinion there isn't a difference. That's fair enough. We can agree to disagree.
Maybe she's counting the tour as being part of the show? It's an extension of the series and she's dancing with the same partner. Her main point in the article seems to be that she doesn't want to dance after the show finished because she doesn't want to dance with anyone but James because he's so fabulous (no accounting for taste but there we go
ETA: Beaten to it!
Read more: http://tellymix.co.uk/reality-tv/strictly-come-dancing/125078-denise-van-outen-says-shell-quit-dancing-after-strictly-come-dancing-2012-final.html#ixzz2HCq6uCli
http://www.femalefirst.co.uk/tv/news/Denise+Van+Outen-271874.html
Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/tv/strictly_come_dancing/4704620/Strictlys-Denise-Van-Outen-vows-to-hang-up-her-dancing-shoes.html#ixzz2HCrHe1dW
Denise Van Outen @denise_vanouten
She's on holiday in Dubai. He's doing doing 2 shows a day in panto! And the SCD tour starts soon! Even more Van Outen b*llsh*it. :rolleyes:
So when Denise says:' I just sat on a chair............'
I'd recommend Valium, a nice cup of tea and a lie down. I wouldn't worry too much. Show is over now. Best to let go while you can.
Poor Lee - Denise sees in the new year at a "star-studded bash" Lee spends it alone, eating sushi in Clapham.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2257788/Romeo-Beckham-natural-says-Gandy-hes-tipped-Fashion-Week.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
If she really wants another child, perhaps someone should remind her about the birds and the bees?
Romeo Beckham's pic looks weird like his head has been stuck on another body. :eek:
Having read that I feel quite sad for DVO's hubby. Poor bloke.
Denise wasn't at a 'Star Studded bash' - she was waiting for a night flight to Dubai with her parents and daughter (she tweeted from the airport - obviously, the journalist didn't think to actually check Denise's twitter to find out what she was doing). Lee wasn't alone - he tweeted that he was planning on meeting a friend and going out for NYE (he's currently in panto, hence not going to Dubai with Denise and family).
Okay, I know I'm not a bloke but I'm starting to go off Ola too. I feel (and again this is a purely personal observation) she is starting to act like James. :eek:
Oh my, it does seem that way, doesn't it!
I'm just going through Strictly (and Louis) withdrawal at the moment and you do seem to be the only one left who still chats about him.
I'm a bit shy about joining his appreciation thread. They seem such a close knit group.