Scottish MPs 'to vote on English taxes' after devolution deal
deptfordbaker
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/11256771/Scottish-MPs-to-vote-on-English-taxes-after-devolution-deal.html
So much for Cameron's promise of English votes for English laws.
Ed Balls is behind this I suspect. I heard he was responsible for blocking the transfer of the taxable earnings threshold, which the SNP is demanding as well as allowing Scottish Labour MP's to vote on UK budgets, which could set the income tax rate.
So in a divided parliament, we could end up with the Scottish setting a low rate for Scotland and then blocking the same for the UK I suppose.
Telegraph wrote:
The parties reach a deal to transfer a swathe of new tax and spending powers to the Scottish Parliament but Labour insiders say Scottish MPs will retain full voting rights on Westminster Budgets.
Scottish MPs will retain full voting rights on UK Budgets despite control over income tax being transferred to the Edinburgh parliament, Labour sources have said ahead of the publication on Thursday of a cross-party deal on devolution.
The Smith Commission, which was charged by David Cameron with getting agreement in the wake of the independence referendum, will unveil proposals to give the Scottish Parliament a swathe of new tax and welfare powers.
Among the areas over which MSPs in Edinburgh are expected to get control are income tax on earnings, air passenger duty, some VAT revenues, Scottish Parliament elections and a series of benefit payments.
The controversial Barnett formula will also be kept although Scotland’s block grant from Westminster will account for a much smaller proportion of its budget after the tax powers are devolved.
But Labour insiders said a deal has been done to ensure that Scottish MPs will still be able to vote on finance Bills at Westminster, despite income tax rates south of the Border no longer applying in their constituencies.
So much for Cameron's promise of English votes for English laws.
They said this was necessary to tackle concerns raised by Gordon Brown that curtailing the rights of Scottish MPs to vote on UK Budgets was could fatally undermine the Union despite September’s referendum victory.
Although Mr Cameron will still be able to press ahead with introducing English votes for English laws in devolved policy areas such as health and education, Labour’s claim of a backroom deal on Budgets last night angered Tory backbenchers.
Ed Balls is behind this I suspect. I heard he was responsible for blocking the transfer of the taxable earnings threshold, which the SNP is demanding as well as allowing Scottish Labour MP's to vote on UK budgets, which could set the income tax rate.
So in a divided parliament, we could end up with the Scottish setting a low rate for Scotland and then blocking the same for the UK I suppose.
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Which part of UK budgets do you not understand?
Well I don't understand your question for a start.
So Scottish MPs will get to vote on the income tax rates people in England and Wales and NI pay but English, Welsh and Ulster MPs will not be able to vote on the income tax rates Scots pay.
What about that disgraceful state of affairs do you not understand?
Oh, I see what you mean.
OK English, Welsh and Northern Irish tax's then. You can hardly call them UK tax's if they don't involve Scotland.
Anyway how long will it be before Wales and Northern Ireland want to set their own tax rates?
Agree
Ach relax. That was the price paid to keep Scotland in the Union and be able keep the nukes of England's green and pleasant land. You got a pretty good deal really...
Well I supported Scottish independence - precisely because I knew this would happen.
Clegg, Miliband and Cameron had absolutely no mandate to agree what they did without the approval of the people of the UK in an election. Services in England and Wales will be cut even deeper in the years to come to protect Scottish services via continuing the discredited Barnett formula. It's a disgraceful state of affairs.
And if the SNP hold the balance of power they will be demanding the Scottish equivalent of more Danegeld too
And the SNP have every incentive to do that - because the more they upset the English voters, the more likely it is that England will decide to get rid of the burden. Faslane and Coulport are about the only real UK asset in Scotland and even they could be moved south. Its a win, win, win situation for the SNP. they either get more money still, or they blame England for depriving them, or make the English voters keen to get rid of them.
Cameron seems to have missed the boat here and allowed Labour to get away with demanding Scottish MPs still set taxes for England. He should have said no way ,and left Miliband to explain why England and Wales deserved less powers than Scotland.
The results are already beginning to come clear of all this nonsense. Scotlands higher paid will move South, the disaparities between spending in England and Scotland will increase, and specific English concerns, like northern airports, will find themselves competing with undercutting Scottish airports - subsidised by English taxes. Its just not tenable.
Gordon Brown makes the argument that Scottish MP's must not be stopped from voting on anything in the House of Commons, despite devolution, because it would mean there would be no argument for keeping the union together.
I can think of three. The pound and the bank of England backing it up, the Queen and the monarchy which Scotland no longer has and defence which Scotland can not afford on it's own. Putin will enjoy using Scotland as the weak spot for intimidating the remaining UK countries.
The UK is a member of NATO and I imagine the American taxpayer is getting a bit fed up of having to subsidise European countries who would rather spend their defence money on welfare. Nukes are expensive and the UK provides them as part of it's contribution. The base in Scotland is Scotland's contribution to the UK and it is about time the lefty's realised that they have to contribute their fair share.
Independence is for good, how many more years will north sea oil last for, what will Scotland do when it runs out?
I was in favour of independence, but Browns and Labours barmy idea that there should not be fair voting because that's the only thing that justifies the union is rubbish. They just can't do without their Scottish MP's that's all.
At least the SNP have some honour on EVEL, unlike Labour. It would be total hypocrisy if they were to vote on English legislation, considering what they demand. It should not be a choice though, they simply should not be allowed a vote.
Apparently Ed Ball's is behind that one for some reason, I hope Scottish voters realise it's not just Tories that are standing in their way. I don't understand why, I would prefer that that the Scottish parliament takes over tax raising and supports itself. They can then pay the UK for the Monarchy, defence, border control etc. Although I would give them immigration too and just have a loose federation rather than a union.
The Tories are being almost reasonable about it. Ruth Davidson was more sensible than Baillie about Nicola Sturgeon's policy outline. I am not a fan of the tories but Labour are a shambles.
On the taxation topic it is not fully devolved I notice.
Have they got amphibious submarines now
BiB- If that happens we'll have to stand up to them, put our foot down and say NO! That should put a stop to it.:p:p
A question for the Scots. If you were one of those who rejected independence but want more devolution, do the latest proposals go far enough and if not, what further powers would you want devolved before you can think to yourself "Yep, that'll do."? Or maybe it'd be easier to ask which powers you'd be quite happy to leave to Westminster.
The current situation is not sustainable no matter how Miliband try's to kick the issue in to the long grass. I think an English parliament is inevitable sooner or later.
Alex Salmond was saying on 'This Week' that Scotland should get full devolution on tax's and simply pay the UK for the federal services it requires. So they would pay for foreign policy, monarchy, the pound and defence. Mind you Diane Abbott also said that Scotland would get that over Ed Ball's dead body, so I don't think Labour will allow it. The Tory's might be more open to it as it means Scots will not be able to blame them any more and have to pay higher tax's for their socialist policies.
The tricky bit is how do we form a federal executive when the Queen is already the head of state? A federal senate is easy as it can just be the replacement for local MP's. The devolved parliaments are always PR so a need for a direct constituency MP or senator will arise.
Shame on all those who supported the quick fix over genuine reform.
Well, you're assuming they would have gone if the last-minute bribes hadn't been offered. We don't know that for sure.