So sad that it has come to a them and us scenario. Anyone who has cancer , or a loved one with cancer knows how difficult it is to treat , how unpredictable the outcome of treatments are, and how profoundly emotive the subject is. There are no winners here, and I find the blame game , from both sides extremely unhelpful .
So sad that it has come to a them and us scenario. Anyone who has cancer , or a loved one with cancer knows how difficult it is to treat , how unpredictable the outcome of treatments are, and how profoundly emotive the subject is. There are no winners here, and I find the blame game , from both sides extremely unhelpful .
Exactly. There's an innocent child in the middle of it all.
So sad that it has come to a them and us scenario. Anyone who has cancer , or a loved one with cancer knows how difficult it is to treat , how unpredictable the outcome of treatments are, and how profoundly emotive the subject is. There are no winners here, and I find the blame game , from both sides extremely unhelpful.
When thinking of 'the blame game', as long as you accept had Ashya King died in the back of that car on a crazy 1000+ mile journey across Europe to their Spanish holiday home, the Kings be held entirely accountable as the result of their actions, then fine.
But that wouldn't have been the case...SGH and the NHS would have been crucified.
When thinking of 'the blame game', as long as you accept had Ashya King died in the back of that car on a crazy 1000+ mile journey across Europe to their Spanish holiday home, the Kings be held entirely accountable as the result of their actions, then fine.
But that wouldn't have been the case...SGH and the NHS would have been crucified.
We live in a time when patients are as clued up on their condition as the medics. They want a voice and an opinion on their care and treatment, we are no longer prepared to be dictated to by busy over stretched and under resourced NHS. No one knows how Ashia will do, it's cancer.
They want a voice and an opinion on their care and treatment, we are no longer prepared to be dictated to by busy over stretched and under resourced NHS. No one knows how Ashia will do, it's cancer.
Parents have a voice and so did the Kings. But at the end of the day it is irresponsible for parents to go off to do their own thing when the risks of doing so [radiotherapy delay and abandonment of chemotherapy] are proven to be substantially higher. Such was the case of the Kings: irresponsibility personnified, and it's long overdue for the specialists and nursing staff involved, as well as other independent specialists, to be able to have their say. It also highlighted the serious human impact on the dedicated and caring staff involved at the hospital.
It did incidentally include several clips previously released by members of the King family, putting their case.
Tonights programme should be networked like Panorama, as even though it contained nothing new to those of us who have followed the case, it is important that the general population of the UK see it too, not just buried away in a hard to find page on iPlayer.
Parents have a voice and so did the Kings. But at the end of the day it is irresponsible for parents to go off to do their own thing when the risks of doing so are proven to be substantially higher. Siuuch was the case of the Kings: irresponsibility personnified.
Neither the hospital , the. kings nor you can predict with any certainty the outcome for this child. The diagnosis of cancer is terrible, for a child multiply it ten times.
They looked for the best outcome for their child, who on earth can fault them ?
We live in a time when patients are as clued up on their condition as the medics. They want a voice and an opinion on their care and treatment, we are no longer prepared to be dictated to by busy over stretched and under resourced NHS. No one knows how Ashia will do, it's cancer.
I think that should read 'we live in a time when patients THINK they are as clued up on their condition as the medics'. It takes about 12 years to become an oncology consultant. Yes, by all means, research a condition as to alternative treatments but only trained staff can fully understand all the complexities. People talk about finding a cure for, say, breast cancer, or want to know why a particular drug isn't being used for their breast cancer, without apparently understanding that there are hundreds of different breast cancers.
Neither the hospital , the. kings nor you can predict with any certainty the outcome for this child. The diagnosis of cancer is terrible, for a child multiply it ten times.
They looked for the best outcome for their child, who on earth can fault them ?
They had the best outcome explained to them - with an offer of third opinion from outside. That is known to have a 70% to 80% successful outcome for childhood medulloblastoma of this type... but they panicked and chose a different route with a 40% to 55% success rate. They assumed that some flashy new technology (no better and no worse than the conventional, for this kind of post-operative cancer) would automatically sove all their problems. How can that be responsible parenting?
We live in a time when patients are as clued up on their condition as the medics. They want a voice and an opinion on their care and treatment, we are no longer prepared to be dictated to by busy over stretched and under resourced NHS. No one knows how Ashia will do, it's cancer.
Wow that's a pretty extreme claim to make. Yes people have access to the internet but i'm afraid that doesn't and never will make them qualified Oncologists! :o
Patients do have a voice, get an opinion from a qualified professional and if they doubt or disagree with that opinion have always been entitled to a second opinion.
However lets not forget the dangers, not to mention arrogance of disagreeing with a qualified professionals first opinion along with that of half a dozen others, all of whom gave the same answer, resulted in the person concerned, Germanwings co-pilot Andreas Lubitz, taking 149 people to their deaths just over two weeks ago.
No we don't and we never will. A little knowledge can be a very dangerous thing.
I'm the daughter of a ITC nurse who has just died from a brain tumour. He refused treatment other than steroids because he knew it wouldn't make any difference - the consultants agreed.
However, my dad also stated that if he was 20 years younger (he was 74), he would have considered other treatments.
Neither the hospital , the. kings nor you can predict with any certainty the outcome for this child. The diagnosis of cancer is terrible, for a child multiply it ten times.
They looked for the best outcome for their child, who on earth can fault them ?
Well said. Unless anyone has been in their situation they have no idea what this means.
The NHS funding his PBT speaks volumes to me about the actual truth of the whole situation. Money. They've now opened up a whole can of worms for themselves.
When thinking of 'the blame game', as long as you accept had Ashya King died in the back of that car on a crazy 1000+ mile journey across Europe to their Spanish holiday home, the Kings be held entirely accountable as the result of their actions, then fine.
But that wouldn't have been the case...SGH and the NHS would have been crucified.
I think that should read 'we live in a time when patients THINK they are as clued up on their condition as the medics'. It takes about 12 years to become an oncology consultant. Yes, by all means, research a condition as to alternative treatments but only trained staff can fully understand all the complexities. People talk about finding a cure for, say, breast cancer, or want to know why a particular drug isn't being used for their breast cancer, without apparently understanding that there are hundreds of different breast cancers.
Absolutely agree though Mr King believed he was 'qualified' enough after just four weeks of surfing the internet!
We live in a time when patients are as clued up on their condition as the medics. They want a voice and an opinion on their care and treatment, we are no longer prepared to be dictated to by busy over stretched and under resourced NHS. No one knows how Ashia will do, it's cancer.
No we don't. My kids have had different medical conditions, one was life threatening and the other two conditions were very much life affecting. I know a lot about the medical conditions thanks to the internet but no way will I ever be as clued up on them as the doctors.
Neither the hospital , the. kings nor you can predict with any certainty the outcome for this child. The diagnosis of cancer is terrible, for a child multiply it ten times. They looked for the best outcome for their child, who on earth can fault them ?[/QUOTE]
But they haven't have they??
The parents have not followed through with the course of chemo that is the standard and recommended treatment in these cases.....the clinic in Prague also recommended the treatment - with rates of survival falling from around 80% to 50% or lower with out....this is researched based evidence and treatment that the Kings have wilfully chosen to withhold from their child......whilst you are right that no one can 'predict' if an individual will respond or not......evidence suggests that survival rates improve quite considerably for most........I do not personally understand how any one would play Russian Roulette and deny the treatment that is recommended...however your assertion earlier that Joe Public know as much as the medics about conditions is not only alarming and dangerous but apparently something the Kings also believe.
They take their son on a gruelling cross Europe journey for a treatment that was not indicated (PBT) as the entire organ and spine needed radiotherapy...this was not a localised and specific area that was to be targeted.....and then decide again to go against advice......lets hope for this lads sake that the cancerous cells have not got into his bloodstream..........the Kings, I understand are saying the tumour has been eradicated. Well yes, the surgery and radiotherapy(which did not need to be PBT)eradicated it....I am baffled how anyone can support them when they are with holding recommended treatment and could very well shorten their sons life...I don't see any thing they have done as being in their child's best interest and increasingly it would seem they are doing the reverse, no matter how good their 'intentions'.
Well said. Unless anyone has been in their situation they have no idea what this means. The NHS funding his PBT speaks volumes to me about the actual truth of the whole situation. Money. They've now opened up a whole can of worms for themselves.
Does it???.....the NHS were pretty much held over a barrel...the child needed radiotherapy following his surgery, he did not however require PBT...the parents did a moonlight flit across Europe..before he could have the standard treatment recommended for his type of cancer ............what was the NHS to do??......he needed radiotherapy to increase his survival rates (along with the chemo that they are with holding)......but he did not in their opinion need that specific form..should they have refused to pay up?? ....the best interests of the child would be to pay for the expensive treatment or risk the child not having any treatment...it does not mean that the actions of the parents were right...they left no choice, it was tantamount to blackmail...and you are right it does open up a can of worms.
No we don't. My kids have had different medical conditions, one was life threatening and the other two conditions were very much life affecting. I know a lot about the medical conditions thanks to the internet but no way will I ever be as clued up on them as the doctors.
thanks for such a gracious post, on a thread that too often has posters attempting to smear medical and care staff as stupid and dishonest, malicious and interfering. best wishes to you and your family
Needless to say the King family were 'saddened' by the views on the documentary according to 'Public figure' Naveed King.
They have written to SGH Oncologists asking for evidence on what they stated about survival and cure rates. They saw the documentary as 'biased to deter other people asking for PBT' (Naveed seems unaware of the NHS programme on PBT treatment!).
Comments
Thanks dave.
Exactly. There's an innocent child in the middle of it all.
But that wouldn't have been the case...SGH and the NHS would have been crucified.
We live in a time when patients are as clued up on their condition as the medics. They want a voice and an opinion on their care and treatment, we are no longer prepared to be dictated to by busy over stretched and under resourced NHS. No one knows how Ashia will do, it's cancer.
No we don't and we never will. A little knowledge can be a very dangerous thing.
Parents have a voice and so did the Kings. But at the end of the day it is irresponsible for parents to go off to do their own thing when the risks of doing so [radiotherapy delay and abandonment of chemotherapy] are proven to be substantially higher. Such was the case of the Kings: irresponsibility personnified, and it's long overdue for the specialists and nursing staff involved, as well as other independent specialists, to be able to have their say. It also highlighted the serious human impact on the dedicated and caring staff involved at the hospital.
It did incidentally include several clips previously released by members of the King family, putting their case.
Tonights programme should be networked like Panorama, as even though it contained nothing new to those of us who have followed the case, it is important that the general population of the UK see it too, not just buried away in a hard to find page on iPlayer.
Neither the hospital , the. kings nor you can predict with any certainty the outcome for this child. The diagnosis of cancer is terrible, for a child multiply it ten times.
They looked for the best outcome for their child, who on earth can fault them ?
I think that should read 'we live in a time when patients THINK they are as clued up on their condition as the medics'. It takes about 12 years to become an oncology consultant. Yes, by all means, research a condition as to alternative treatments but only trained staff can fully understand all the complexities. People talk about finding a cure for, say, breast cancer, or want to know why a particular drug isn't being used for their breast cancer, without apparently understanding that there are hundreds of different breast cancers.
They had the best outcome explained to them - with an offer of third opinion from outside. That is known to have a 70% to 80% successful outcome for childhood medulloblastoma of this type... but they panicked and chose a different route with a 40% to 55% success rate. They assumed that some flashy new technology (no better and no worse than the conventional, for this kind of post-operative cancer) would automatically sove all their problems. How can that be responsible parenting?
Patients do have a voice, get an opinion from a qualified professional and if they doubt or disagree with that opinion have always been entitled to a second opinion.
However lets not forget the dangers, not to mention arrogance of disagreeing with a qualified professionals first opinion along with that of half a dozen others, all of whom gave the same answer, resulted in the person concerned, Germanwings co-pilot Andreas Lubitz, taking 149 people to their deaths just over two weeks ago.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b05qyjl9/ashya-the-untold-story
I'm the daughter of a ITC nurse who has just died from a brain tumour. He refused treatment other than steroids because he knew it wouldn't make any difference - the consultants agreed.
However, my dad also stated that if he was 20 years younger (he was 74), he would have considered other treatments.
Well said. Unless anyone has been in their situation they have no idea what this means.
The NHS funding his PBT speaks volumes to me about the actual truth of the whole situation. Money. They've now opened up a whole can of worms for themselves.
What a ridiculously OTT comment!
Staggering.
Really?
Matron Kate Pye had this to say;
Here is her address;
FAO Matron Kate Pye
Southampton General Hospital
Tremona Road
Southampton
Hampshire
SO16 6YD
I will look forward to reading the reply.
Wow, such thorough devotion to your cause deserves commendation!
Shall I take up your challenge?
No we don't. My kids have had different medical conditions, one was life threatening and the other two conditions were very much life affecting. I know a lot about the medical conditions thanks to the internet but no way will I ever be as clued up on them as the doctors.
Does it???.....the NHS were pretty much held over a barrel...the child needed radiotherapy following his surgery, he did not however require PBT...the parents did a moonlight flit across Europe..before he could have the standard treatment recommended for his type of cancer ............what was the NHS to do??......he needed radiotherapy to increase his survival rates (along with the chemo that they are with holding)......but he did not in their opinion need that specific form..should they have refused to pay up?? ....the best interests of the child would be to pay for the expensive treatment or risk the child not having any treatment...it does not mean that the actions of the parents were right...they left no choice, it was tantamount to blackmail...and you are right it does open up a can of worms.
thanks for such a gracious post, on a thread that too often has posters attempting to smear medical and care staff as stupid and dishonest, malicious and interfering. best wishes to you and your family
Good that it finally made National TV coverage... albeit tucked away late evening on BBC 2.
They have written to SGH Oncologists asking for evidence on what they stated about survival and cure rates. They saw the documentary as 'biased to deter other people asking for PBT' (Naveed seems unaware of the NHS programme on PBT treatment!).